I make 1MM/yr and I feel like I'm middle class?

ar: I'm all good then, I lease my car and obviously lease my apartment too right now. So what you are saying is that I am winning?

when will I be able to buy my prime downtown 3000 sq ft condo for 3M?

i don't know, duecescracked, originally i targeted 2012, i think, or maybe it was 2010. but yes, you are winning. and assuming you still like your wife and the mother of your children, you'll find a way to adjust a bit so that she can personalize a rental a bit more. nasty how people jumped on the wife issue, even though one of the major reasons given for buying is always the ability to personalize your space. hypocritical.

lucille, i happen to agree with both sides of the argument here. a downtown condo loft back in the day averaged $650 psf, IIRC (and i think that was 2000). we're not talking park avenue. the thing that is unusual about the OP is the age. too young to have the angst regarding possession given today's circumstances. and future income. but the city can make some crazy, and at least this is interesting.

rs, really? how many people making a million, and who have two kids, live in a condo that would sell for a "fraction of what [he] is targeting?"

ar: that is exactly what is frustrating me. I look at the acris records on some of these 5M condos and I see they were bought in 2002-2003 for 2M. Reasonable price I say.

Now I am no macroeconomics genius but I just don't understand how it is possible that these assets are now worth 200 - 300% after 7 years. I can't buy into that because it seems unsustainable. And yet I have been saying that for several years and the shits keep trading around the same level despite all that has happened.

fking bubble..

rs, really? how many people making a million, and who have two kids, live in a condo that would sell for a "fraction of what [he] is targeting?"

That's not what I said, please re-read it.

It's also true that one can purchase a three bedroom condo(depending on square footage) for under 2 and certainly up to 3 mill in a luxury building and full amenities(but you'll have to live with 1700-2200 square feet).

w67th, are you going to change your name? or make a proud statement of will a la columbiacounty?

back in the day the op would have been hackled as a broker with a $3mill tribeca loft to sell. you guys are getting soft.

dueces, you're right, and memito is right. prices rose hugely because of a bubble. people want to deny it happened, but it did. yes, condo prices rose due to foreign buyers, to some extent.

but if you look at the prices in the city, you'll see a huge jump from 1996 to 98, and then from 1998 to 2000. the latter seemed a little bit suspicious to me, and it was a time of initial Greenspan exuberance. 2001 had lower prices, a major terrorist event and then a president who was desperate not to be a one-timer like daddy. lending standards declined significantly, and prices rose a ton. 2003- 2008 were an amazing ride. 2003-04 was huge, and 2004-05 was also.

when i applied for pmi in 2001, my mortgage broker said, hey, even some people getting mortgages of over a million are getting pmi. a few years later, pmi wasn't necessary for condo purchases, the piggy-back heloc was born

either way, dueces, feel happy that you haven't succumbed to the pressure. do your best to make your space your own, and the worst thing in life certainly isn't renting.

Yes.

I'm starting an one w67 campaign to untroll myself.

He think but not where it counts.

Thick....... Goodddddddaaaaaaammmmmmmmmit.

Help a brother out, can someone start an untroll w67 thread. Thxs

"csn: explain to me the math of how that works, assuming it doesn't entail me putting every dime I have in my investment accounts into a condo? As I said, about 3 million liquid, but invested. I take out a 3M+ mortgage to buy a 5M condo? Seems like a huge monthly nut."

With a $6M condo, 20% down, 5% interest on the loan, average CCs, you are looking at 38.5% of your gross paycheck which is in line with what normal loans require or at least pretty close. Now if you go with the $5M condo and put more down, get a lower interest rate which is possible, that percent of the gross will drop dramatically. So you could keep most of the money in the bank and survive. And buy that condo.

Now is that the best thing to do? Renting as I said prior will save you a tremendous amount each month. So put up that wallpaper and make it a home. For the money that you will be saving each month compared to buying, extra decorating will be basically free.

I know you mentioned taking the subway and eating at cheap joints, what is the rest of the family doing with all that money?

what a mistake, rs. you really fell for the bait.

Dude don't Be so sensitive about your weight

bait?
why would you do that?

So you intentionally were nasty?

ok, riversider dropped the ball there.

i just don't think he is the comm troll. there are probably several trolls here doing their troll work.
the comm troll is young, it's in the way he talks, in his banter. he's witty, he's quick, he's snarky. an older person can't fake that. well, they can, but it's obvious. how to say this?......only people who grew up with internet..who have ALWAYS communicated via instant message, beepers, sms...can banter this way in a natural way. at least that's what i think.

csn: I neglected to mention that I also own a 2M country house. Put a bunch of equity into that.

Where?

now you're definately full of poopie

csn: it was my understanding that the underwriters now want 28% D/I. Where is 38% come from?

I agree I'm saving a lot of money that I can put into my expensive habits by renting ..

lucille, believe me, i have more proof than i am showing here. involving an attempted trolling of another site.

i think RS is youngish, kind of sad, no? and today was just one example of RS moving out of form. it has happened a number of times, most notably on the threads discussing whether i should have left rome to come home when my fil died even though i never would have made it home before his death.

btw, rs, the 21-gun salute ceremony at arlington was incredibly moving, as was the family ceremony that occurred the day before.

In CT. For real.

On a lake.

this is really starting to feel like a joke.

i thought this was satire when i first read it......

here comes another identity from riversider swooping in, apparently innocently. lets watch

Its no joke I promise you. We bought the country house a few years ago when we were debating to buy or not in NYC and thought we would get much more value from having a place outside the city we could go to on weekends and holidays. And that worked to balance renting a smaller apartment instead of splurging on a single big place. I also have a new ferrari.

buyer, isn't that what is so interesting (sickly) about our market? who knows if this is satire or real? both are a definite possibility.

This is getting funnier, I admit I was slow but I've caught on.

so now riversider makes a feeble attempt at a recovery, helped by himself, buyerbuyer.

RS, CC tried to help you create an "Untroll w67thstreet" thread, but it looks like you need to be the one to do it.

DId he mention the garage full of high-end cars? The stables?....

(the condo with the trophy mistress)....

the polo ponies?

now he/she/it are off cackling with each other. sick but fascinating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbJNyGbFNRo

No stables. But I do keep the F-car at the country house. Bottom line though, this doesn't change the NYC situation and my impression of it.

There is NO zip code in ManhattN where $1mmma year is NOT top
10%. Not tribecca, not Lenox hill, NO WHERE. TOP is a complete ass.

"this doesn't change the NYC situation and my impression of it"

that you deserve a 5mm house but can't afford one?

unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!
unhide w67!!!

Actually Lucille, this whole exercise has convinced me that you need more than $1,000,000 pre-tax to afford a $5,000,000 Condo. I'd say such a hypothetical person would shoot for $3,00,0000 tops and put 30% down.

serpentine. duck and weave.

I took the liberty of posting your original comment on youbemom, deuce. Here be the first X responses.
# White dh problems
posted on 12/5/10 5:36pm hidereply
# You obviously send your DCs to one of the snottier schools. No, that is NOT NORMAL - I'm in Manhattan and very few of the kids live in ^M condos
posted on 12/5/10 5:36pm hidereply
# Are you here to get a lot of moms cooing and assuring you that you are doing great? 'Cause we're not here for that.
posted on 12/5/10 5:36pm hidereply

* Hallelujah. *
posted on 12/5/10 5:38pm hidereply

# stfu woudl you.
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply
# i can't even respond coherently to this. my dh makes about 80k. i'd die of happiness to have this problem.
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply

* You cannot respond coherently beause OP is rambling about how successful he yet isnt one of the 'big boys' in town
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply

# The wife?
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply
# $1m a year IS a comfortable MIDDLE class life in NYC. but get over it.
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply
# what's a meg?
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply
# please shut up
posted on 12/5/10 5:37pm hidereply
* thank you *
# Omg, 300k mom here. Is this fake? This is why I'm resentful *
posted on 12/5/10 5:38pm hidereply

* i hear ya *
posted on 12/5/10 5:39pm hidereply

# You can't put in built ins at your rental and if you can't afford the home you want, you rent. *

Interesting.. and clever.

No matter how much money you have, there will always be someone with a nicer home, and/or more assets. Enjoy what you have, or you will always be envious.

Years ago, I wanted an extra room for a den because I thought it was "expected". Fortunately I never acted on the impulse. You really do need to be thankful for what you have. That, and pick and chose...It's always about choices.

nyc10023: that is interesting and I guess not surprising. What is this site? Could you share a link to the comments. We can get a chuckle from the granola moms comments on there.

I know you feel my dilemma though ..

>I don't want to 'compete' with anyone and I don't care about the joneses.

Deuces, if that were even remotely true you wouldn't have started this thread. Try reading your first post out loud to your shrink and see where that goes.

poor baby. Im sure you will figure it out. Wife is getting frustrated, lolz.

I give him credit. The thread shows moxie.

Duece: I think you're making all this up. But it was entertaining.

http://www.youbemom.com/forum/?s=normal

Mebbe you should get together with the poster of

"i can't even respond coherently to this. my dh makes about 80k. i'd die of happiness to have this problem. "

Oh, and I'm pretty-pretty-grounded, so no, I don't feel your dilemma.

I remember all too well the days when $20 had to buy all my food for the week.

deftrustrate? a real verb?

going in the back door?

who cut off w67th?

Thieves?

Boesky?

rs, not clever. sad attempt at humor.

its been a while since there was a thread like this. I think the last one was about gold like 2 yrs ago

$1415 and climbing as of today.

Urban, now with the story on JP Morgan shorting Gold to excessive levels, there's talk that too could start going much higher.

I meant Silver.

dueces - your oh did i forget to mention the country house took the op and anon to the level of banality. next.

An aside:

AR: Excellent analysis of the NYC bubble(s). A price chopped to 2005 levels may still be a bubble price.

"if you look at the prices in the city, you'll see a huge jump from 1996 to 98, and then from 1998 to 2000. the latter seemed a little bit suspicious to me, and it was a time of initial Greenspan exuberance. 2001 had lower prices, a major terrorist event and then a president who was desperate not to be a one-timer like daddy. lending standards declined significantly, and prices rose a ton. 2003- 2008 were an amazing ride. 2003-04 was huge, and 2004-05 was also."

2005 was six years ago. While we are no longer climbing, neither do we seem be falling.

Dwell, I can recall decades where we had cheaper stock valuations, but nobody expects us to go back to 1974 either. I think you raise good points but expensive does not mean we're going to fall.

I don't mean to insult the mother of your children, but I think your wife needs a serious reality check. She is comparing your lifestyle to a very skewed population. Stop comparing your lifestyle to a very small group that pays $35K and up for grade school. If you look at the total population of NYC, you are at the high end. You are in the top 1% of income nationwide - even adjusted for NYC cost of living.

If she wants a $5 million apartment, then tell her to go earn another million and then you can do it. You can find a very nice 3 bedroom for $3million or under.

Can't agree with you there, River. Look at price histories. Many prices have fallen, but many have not fallen to even 2005 levels. For those who bought at bubble prices, they don't want to sell for less than their purchase price & I can understand that, but it skews values.

On second thought, perhaps I kinda agree, but still stand behind my post.

The OP is a douchebag & so is THE WIFE; they deserve each other. Bye bye, my Rolls is double parked.

Obviously the op is playing all of you. To me, he sounds like the troll who caused all the trouble.

LOL..agreed juliag....It's a joke.

Regardless of joke or not, people are creatures of their environments, and as people's friend's and environments inflate, their perspectives and expectations inflate accordingly. That's why it's always good to support those who are successful but either came from little or had a major failure that brought them back to little before they succeeded again.

Surprised it took so long to figure out what Julia figured out...i smelled this as a "BS" post from the beginning.

of course. duecescracked=wonderboy+imaginary kids - imaginary prada bag.

You guys are douches. This is no joke, although I can see how it may come across that way after my 'reveal'. The reason I didn't mention this to begin with is that:

1) I didn't think it was relevant to my primary point
2) It would have created a bunch of questions

This thread is hilarious! I don't know whether duecescracked is a troller or if he's real. And that is what makes it so compelling.

If he's a troller he is effin' brilliant in his evocation of Jay Gatsby and Sherman McCoy (of Bonfire of the Vanities): the mindless innocence/culpability of the havoc wrought by the privileged in their certainty of privilege. If he's real ... well ... see the former description for how on target those two novels were.

In addition, I am finding the misogyny of this thread also very droll. The misogyny seems to come from all sides of the dice in this discussion: duecescracked as well as the people who assume that duecescracked is a "reliable narrator" and who envision the "rich bitch" wife that they see depicted on reality shows. Note that duecescracked blames his "predicament" on his wife since he is obviously looking for sympathy as much as envy. Perhaps, rather than Gatsby, he is actually Nick Carroway.

What we do know that the "character" duecescracked embodies in this narrative is not very smart at least about personal finance, hasn't a modicum of social skills and is vastly overpaid. Does this doofus wook for a hedge fund? They love to feel superior to Wall Street. Or is he a VC? VC's are asily as joyfully hateable as any Wall Streeter. Is this a Google "stock option" grantee or a social networking bubble boy? Perhaps none of these. But the novelization of this thread would be fun.

Is Tom Wolfe writing this? LOL!

What can I say? Thank you. It made my night.

Glinda's post is my favorite so far, turning nothing into something as it does.

@alanhart And your comment "... there's no nod to 'I can't even begin to understand how a Duane Reade clerk can afford to live in this city'" was the most bell-ringing moment of clarity in this whole thread.

Glinda, I think I love you.

I caught the Duane Reade comment myself. This whole thing is just hilarious. I feel middle class because I pay $70,000 a year for my kids to go to fancy private schools, and some of the other people who spend that much money on private schools have more money than I do.

If you insist on living in a 3 bedroom in a prime neighborhood in down town manhattan and sending your kids to private school you will have to suffer the hideous indignity of living amongst some people who an afford to buy more shit than you can.

duecescracked - i hear your pain - many of my clients went through all of that b.s. before they decided it either wasn't for them anymore or made the choice to go for something permanent in NYC or in the burbs. I specialize in Residential Architecture in both Westchester with projects in Scarsdale, Larchmont, Mamaroneck, Pelham Manor, White Plains, Chappaqua, Rye, etc. as well as NYC with projects near Lincoln Center at the moment.

if you stay in NYC then getting a place that is less than move in ready and remodeling it yourself will certainly save money but extend the timeline a bit. Moving to Westchester is also an option - air is clean - my asthma went away as i moved out of the city - and schools are really good - and commuting is quick whether train or driving - I have helped clients look for apartments and houses and explained possibilities from a design and Architect point of view as well as performed design and Architect services for them afterward. As getting something that is move in ready always costs more money and doesn't necessarily reflect the lifestyle of the occupants - outside of NYC contractors are hurting and scrambling to get work - therefore the savings to remodel something is quite large in comparison to the $6m condo - - you are not out of line in your thinking - zachary@zs-design.com

Deuces is petrfitz with some additional creative license.

Solutions:
1.duecescracked...repeditive colonic therapy (buy the discounted 10 session plan)
2.SE...FREE W67

but deuces IS W67

these condos were 1M when you were making 200k, do the math

I vaguely recalled this being an old rufus alter ego, and the username has a low number, so I looked it up. Chicago, yes, but most likely not a rufus. And definitely not w67thstreet, who should be untrolled.

Perhaps this week's thread was in jest, perhaps not, but duecescracked's peer-group $$$ comparison is very old:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2568-income-level-and-maximum-mortgage-size

... among others

alanhart you are a regular sherlock holmes. I'm old school on these forums. And again, there is nothing in jest about my post, not sure why it appears to have turned out humorous. This is a serious f-cking question and I am sure there are others out there that feel the same way as I.

Isn't it basic Marxist theory that under capitalism, you're never satified with your level of consumption? That if you buy the $6mm condo, you suddenly NEED the $12mm condo?

So yes, there are many others who feel the same way as you.

By the way, those feelings make you a Marxist. He copyrighted them.

w67: I roll wit da OE, not colt. I also spilled some out for my homies once I was done.

Rich people think they are "middle class" because they don't know anyone besides other rich people. It's a case of extreme segregation.

Not true I have more than a couple broke-ass friends and low lifes

"Every parent at my kids school is running around buying 6M condos"

I didn't read this whole thread (too long), but... seriously? Everyone is buying new places? Were they renters, or did they sell their previous places.

I'd believe it if you said they LIVED in 6M condos. But, for everyone to be buying places right now seems odd- where did they live last year? A 5M condo? If a few people just bought, I would believe it, but to imply that "every parent" (yes, I know that was an exaggeration, so I'll assume you meant something like 20 parents- still seems implausible).

lol @ "selling out" b/c of a Westchester move (where btw, there are plenty of places that will make your $2M home feel very average too).

Broadwayron: some off the cuff stats - about 18 kids in class. Been to about a dozen homes for playmates, cocktails, etc.

Of these, 5 were purchases in the last 12 months. Another 5 in the past 3 years. The other two date back to around 2004-2005.

So not totally accurate to say they are all buying now, but certainly a good percentage are recent. As for their situation before I am not sure, I am thinking sold old place majority of them.

That sounds more believable.

Mav: I've gone out with realtor in bedford, pound Ridge, etc. 2.5M gets as nice a house as I would ever need for the next twenty years.

Sure there are mega mansions but 10000 sq ft serves me no purpose. Anything above 2.5 is well into dramatically diminishing return.

The same cannot be said about manhattan condo.

duecescracked
for a busy guy commanding serious dinero you sure have lots of time to spill on these boards.

FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!

Pay attention kiddies to this poster and try to figure out the true user name. The time for FAKES and trolls are over. All those with multiple user names should be declared persona non grata.