I make 1MM/yr and I feel like I'm middle class?

duecescracked = ball breaker

need I say more...

end the thread

I read much of this thread, and an old story comes to mind, something about an old rabbi saying...

"rich is being happy with what you have".

I'd focus on that part. I had a number. I got to that number, and I wasn't much happier. Then the next number. Then the next. Then I just started saying "what will make me happy", and I worried about that. Much better.

First lesson is, stop comparing yourself to idiots.

Mind the Income Gap
Manhattan has the highest wealth disparity in the country. How does that make you feel?

http://nymag.com/guides/money/2006/23488/

jason, I bet the divide has grown since 2006.

It has.

"How rich is rich?...

...On the high end of that range, a single person living in an expensive part of the country (say, New York City...would need at least $300,000 a year to feel rich, according to Steven Kaye, president of Watchung, N.J.-based wealth management firm American Economic Planning Group. He based that number on real-life figures his clients tell him they need...."

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/09/news/economy/wealth/index.htm

"...According to Gallup, the public's median definition of "rich" was an income of $120,000 -- or assets of $1 million...."

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/RetirementandWills/EscapeTheRatRace/JustHowRichIsRichReally.aspx

"...By the same measure [the top 5 percent of earners], here's the household income required to be "rich" in the five most and least expensive cities in our sample:

Couple without kids Family of four
New York $359,494 $718,989
San Francisco $359,061 $718,123
San Jose, Calif. $354,513 $709,025
Washington $347,917 $695,833
Boston $316,613 $633,227
U.S. average $245,218 $490,436
Colorado Springs, Colo. $207,472 $414,943
Omaha $207,019 $414,038
Fresno, Calif. $205,349 $410,698
Albuquerque, N.M. $193,483 $386,965
El Paso, Texas $175,161 $350,321..."

$1MM is fucking rich, fake or not.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flowchart/2008/10/14/how-to-tell-if-youre-rich

FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!
He's breaking your balls!!!!
FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!
He's breaking your balls!!!!
FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!
He's breaking your balls!!!!
FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!,FAKE!
He's breaking your balls!!!!

swe: you are right. I am reading a nice book on the subject of Happiness by Matthieu Ricard right now in fact.

jason: good article. This resonated in particular "Private-school tuitions and an Upper East Side mortgage ate most of his salary, so I also knew what it felt like to be, if not poor, tight."

I'm TIGHT man, and I need a proper place to live. Thats all I am saying.

how I hope a meteor crashes on you

Duecescracked – I feel your pain. With private school (3 kids in my case), private college, etc. 1M in NYC doesn’t cut it. It wasn’t until I got to north of 2M (1+M after tax) that I felt like I had any disposable income. Don’t get saddled with a large mortgage, just keep renting. You are living in a proper place.

duecescracked d ow e need the tax cuts extended?

dueces, got some ideas for ya. can i email you or provide and email for you to contact me?

oh no she d'nt!

Rachel: I'm always open to ideas. Please post your email here so I can contact you.

oh yes she did! Time for dueces to get his SICK deal. REALLY!

dueces - see second post in the thread below for email.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/9107-highest-and-best-at-the-majestic

Ok, not that I should get into this,.... but I thought the oft-mentioned, beloved-to-hate Agent Rachel was like some prehistoric, extinct SE thang -- because I had never seen a siteing on this board. Was this her real handle ? Will Bigfoot post tomorrow....

oops...meant to say "we"

Just when people said this forum was on ignore AgentRagel makes an appearance -- magic

for ya!

So much for deucescracked being W67. Plus, anyone else notices that he/she mispelled "deuces"? Unless it is some Spanish word.

Italian, not Spanish.

Agent Rachel...

just when you thought it was safe to go in the water.

This is no boating accident...

I see .. lame!!

You all really think it is difficult to crack "Agent" "Rachel"s password??

For the record, the unit at the Majectic got $2.34M. Higher than ANY of you predicted. Granted, Wendy didn't sell it but it still went for more than even i thought it would. Duece, if you want to discuss you can reach me at rglazer@bhsusa.com

this reminds me that what seems to have pushed the troll from odd to angry was the majestic thread. that would make this the part of the movie where the villain reveals the depths of his plot right before feeding his victims to a bunch of sharks with frikkin laser beams on their heads.

duecescracked, darling you are middle-class.

Did you really think you were rich with your paltry $1M income? I believe I spent $1M at the late Monsieur Yves Saint Laurent Estate Sale in Paris not too long ago.

If an whenever you crack $50M (liquid), I suppose I could consider you "rich", but you just aren't there yet. This is Manhattan, after all!

on, wonderbra, [ ... PROJECTILE VOMITS ... ]

jason10009, you're clearly poor and those statistics are outdated. $350,000, rich? I would laugh but my lips is too tight from today's collagen treatment.

Wealthiest counties in the United States by 5% Household Income 2009:

1. New York, NY: $857,643
2. Fairfield, CT: $822,708
3. Westchester, NY: $793,134
4. Somerset, NJ: $625,869
5. Marin, CA: $624,762
6. Montgomery, MD: $567,190
7. Hunterdon, NJ: $554,015
8. Morris, NJ: $546,982
9. Nassau, NY: $538,307
10. San Francisco, CA: $523,744

http://wealthmiser.com/blog/?p=402

Mind you, this is the shameful top 5% from 2009. I would need to see a list of the top 1% (which surely it is far above $1M in Manhattan if the top 5% hovers at $1M as is)

duecescracked should feel like a poor (oh, excuse me... "middle class") because he is clearly of that group.

Can anyone translate from Bronx tranny hooker to English?

Top 5% is "rich".

Oh sweetheart, I beg to differ.

You beg for subsistence.

THe article you quote says that to be in the top 5% or "wealthy" as the article puts it, you have to make over $857k in Manhattan. In 2009, TOP made $1MM. Which, by the very article you quote, makes him "wealthy." Which also means "rich."

Oh, and just to throw something out.. one of my current zip codes -- 10021, has by far the highest average gross income in the United States per the IRS at $12,098,604. #2 is 10022 all the way down at $5,469,333. Poor things.

I always did notice a difference in attire and pedigree when crossing the two zip codes.

http://wealth.mongabay.com/tables/100_income_zip_codes-20000.html

And yes, fabulously rich people like me do skew statistics so save it (presumably for someone who cares).

Re: 10021, has by far the highest average gross income in the United States per the IRS at $12,098,604. #2 is 10022 all the way down at $5,469,333. Poor things.

if you're going to quote data from a table, learn to read a table -- that's the TOTAL gross income (in thousands). The average income in 10022 was $252,000. get it, you divide the gross by the number of returns.

And if you are going to fake the persona of a wealthy upper class gay man, at least try and fake just a bit of the intellect as well.

jason10006, the blogger might think its "wealthy". Surely 857k is "wealthy" compared to his minimum wage salary.

"fake?" LOL.

wonderboy and agentrachel make an appearance -- it's a party!
wonderboy, what's the most popular fake watch these days?

"Fabulously rich people like me"? If Congress could see that quote, the tax cut for the wealthy would never be extended.

Tax are for the poor.

Re: wonderboy and agentrachel make an appearance -- it's a party!

deja vu! Who's next, 407PAS?

Apparently, so are grammar.

west34, spunky

407PAS...now him, I miss...
spunky...not so much

FREE W67

SIgh...wonderboy, you cannot read the data in the very table you cite. The column is INCOME PER RETURN...which per the very table you cite is some $200-250k per. Not $5MM. So very pathetic. Also, you are on ignore.

...also, the actual list with actual income in NYC (which is a different page) includes HEDGE FUND and PE returns. Thus why all the highest income zips are in financial areas of downtown or midtwon, not residential areas. Or do you really think the Frat Stars of 10004 i.e. 2 Gold Street et al make, on average, 2.1MM per year?

Please do not cause my thread to degenerate into mindless drivel. Lets stay on point:

Why do I feel blue collar at 7 figures

Because you spend 8 figures. Go back to 5 figures

dueces, frankly, i have no idea why you feel blue collar at seven figures. even in manhattan. i grew up blue collar to lower, and your downtown three kids in private school and expensive rental isn't anywhere near the blue collar i recall, i'm absolutely certain. lack of perspective, perhaps?

He doesn't mean actual blue collar. More like a teacher or something.

bgrfrank, how do you know? words are words, they have meaning, blue collar is not white collar service jobs like teaching.

i think dueces is just trying to get something going here, but that was just bizarre. seven figures and you feel blue collar? really? fake, i say, fake.

and dueces started off feeling "middle class" but is now feeling "blue collar"

why the change?

Words are words? Numbers are numbers. Now what?

He whines. He complains. So what, it can't be the first whiner or complainer that we met.

he didn't say he felt like a teacher, he said he felt like a blue collar worker, which would be someone on the assembly line at ford. just a bit of a difference, no?

how do you know what he meant? he said blue collar. for affect i think, and i think it's fake, but your comment that he doesn't mean actual blue collar is certainly not supported by anything other than the absurdity of his comment, and indeed the thread in general.

Bob Frank has researched this stuff for a long time. He gets underneath this with a simple starting point that utility is a social construct, a radical point of departure from basic economics.

Here's his 2000 piece for the NYT Magazine:

Consider a choice between these two worlds:
World A: You earn $110,000 per year, others earn $200,000.
World B: You earn $100,000 per year, others earn $85,000.

The income figures represent real purchasing power. Your income in World A would command a house 10 percent larger than the one you could afford in World B, 10 percent more restaurant dinners and so on. By choosing World B, you'd give up a small amount of absolute income in return for a large increase in relative income.

So which would you pick? A majority of Americans, it turns out, choose World B....
Read on: http://www.robert-h-frank.com/PDFs/NYTMag.10.15.00.pdf

He's followed up with books on it (which I haven't read yet):
Falling Behind: How Rising Inequality Harms the Middle Class -- 2007
Luxury Fever: Money and Happiness in an Era of Excess -- 2010

Thanks Skinny, I was actually googling for those from "New York magazine." Mixed it up. Yes, people who make TEN MILLION feel middle class, per that article, because they know people who make $100MM. And believe it or not, the $100MM per year people feel middle class too. All should be found by the Jacobins.

Thanks skinny for the first actionable information in this thread

I will now go buy those books and try to get inside the mind of the middle
class millionaire.

Actionable? You could have put your wife on the strict budget of a non-working wife of a $50K/yr earner. You could have moved to a poor neighborhood like the Upper West Side. But no, you chose not to.

Instead you chose to read ... books. Uggggh!

[Or at least buy books; in fairness, you never said you'd read them.]

Duece: your post doesn't sound right because the idea of feeling poorer despite living better in many ways has been a recurrent theme for many years.

Some things which were affordable on "professional" or "middle-management" salaries are no longer affordable on those incomes.

Chief among those things are a family-sized home in some real estate mkts, private school...

duecescracked, you seem happy with what you earn and how you live. Stick with it! Only you know what's best for your own life. Don't be a follower. If your friends want to buy $6M pads, so be it. That's what they want. Want what you want! In NYC, no one can EVER keep up with "the Joneses". There will always be someone making less than you and someone making more than you.

I don't mean to be harsh, but if your wife wants to live the life then she should help pay for it. The best thing my Mom did was have me understand the true meaning of income and expenses. First, she should not take your $1M salary for granted. I'm an accountant and people don't understand the income in the higher tax brackets tend to be volatile. Second, show her how much it costs to be in a $6M home - mortgage, insurance, common charges, RE taxes, etc. You'll be paying TRIPLE what you pay now. Also realize that the year over year increases in home ownership expenses has outpaced rent increases.

Dueces - I have 3 words for you: ACRES OF DIAMONDS

Oh, I have 3 more words for you: MOVE TO BROOKLYN

I can understand how making $1M/yr in NYC feels middle class. Tom Wolfe did a great breakdown of Sherman's "Master of the Universe" finances in Bonfire of the Vanities. While the numbers are larger today, and the taxes are lower, the same math applies. When you subtract for taxes, tuition, benefits contributions, retirement savings, rent, and groceries, there's not so much left at the end of the month. Sure, there's plenty to live on, and it's all about how you choose to allocate resources, but the money goes pretty fast--especially in NYC, one of the only cities in the country that has its own income tax and yet doesn't have public schools worthy of the extra cost. (And I'm not unfairly ragging on the school system; there are serious structural problems, like not having enough seats in the kindergartens for all the families that have chosen to stay and send their kids to public schools. When a school system is converting windowless basement storage rooms to classrooms, there's substantial room for improvement.)

Not only does NYC have the added income tax, it has outrageously expensive home ownership taxes, like the mortgage recording tax and the mansion tax. Levying a "mansion tax" on properties priced over $1M is absurd now that prices for modest apartments in Manhattan are hovering around that mark. And the mortgage recording tax rate is just nuts, especially since it's in addition to the transfer tax. The property taxes are not chump change, either.

So, yes, the economic crisis, wage stagnation, unemployment, crippling student loan debt, a lack of affordable rental housing, limited access to healthy, fresh produce in lower-income neighborhoods, these problems make the frustration over reduced buying power seem petty and self-indulgent. But NYC is a brutally competitive market, where the working class can feel stressed and shortchanged at every level.

Ok seriously it amazes me how many people have jumped down this mans back. It does not matter what his income is or how he has made it. You have no idea how hard he may have worked to be at this point in his life. Secondly it's not any of your business. He simply came on here to ask a question in hopes to finding some kind of response. I am sorry but you are going to have to get over the fact he makes more then you, me and most of America. This is his life and his question. TO come on here and complain about it is ridiculous, who cares? And I did not read the fact that his wife was miserable, just that she wanted to make her condo a HOME a place they made into their own look and style and she is unable to do that because of renting. I have rented in the past and know exactly how she feels. So I wish you and her all the best.

And I am saying this as an unemployed 28 year old and I have four degrees under my belt but still having trouble finding work in the economy and I am close to being homeless, so no I do need lots of money to defend him. Good on you for obtaining the lifestyle you have! I only stumbled upon this as I have obtained a job interview in NY and wondered about life in NY. It's crazy how many people are seriously rude to this man because he makes more money then you. And he has been very polite responding to these people.

The way people complain in this country is ridiculous. I have traveled and studied in a few countries, yes putting myself in debt but I have seen people live in sooo much worse of condition then even our lower class have. Be thankful for what you do have instead of being angry at the people who have more then you.

Just saw this tread for this first time. I think you should move to Africa with your wife for a year and come back, you will understand better how problematic is your post. 99.9% of the world population will take your place, right now.

There are always richer and always prettier but the question is, does it really matter? As you probably say to your kid "you get what you get and you don't get upset" should apply to your wife and you as well.

Switel, could you please pass the Grey Poupon.

One of life's finer pleasures...

the dude in the commercial is probably one of the op wanna be friend

I make more than 250k but definitely not 1 million, yet our dear leader Obama considers me a millionaire/billionaire that is not paying my fair share in taxes. 250k in NYC is barely middleclass.

"250k in NYC is barely middleclass."

You are a fucktard. $250k is almost 5X the NYC median HH income, and is 4X the MANHATTAN median HH income, and more than median HH income in any Manhattan neighborhood. That's right - even if you parse it to just Tribeca or Lenox Hill, that's still above average. But for the island, you are in the top 10% of earners. So shut. the fuck. up.

Only 16.6% of households in New York county made over $200k per year in 2011, asshat.

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_11_1YR_S1901&prodType=table

The middle 20% made about $50,000 to $100,000. The MEAN income, as opposed the median, in New York County, was $125,000. Which means you make not only 4X the median, but twice the average.

In other words, YOU ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS even for Manhattan. STFU.

Fking poor bastard. I made $1.432mm in 6 months. What a lozer. What a maroon. Just kill yourself and maybe the life insurance policy can let your wife and kids have a semi decent life in nyc. Don't you know it costs $1mm for a studio to house just one of my maids? Driver. $1.5mm. 3 nannies $4.5mm. Take em all to Costa Rica for my family vaca. $85k. For one fking week. My new main cost $25k. New jib $20k. New tender $15k. How in the world do you live on $1mm/yr?

Hey hey hey, there's my one trick pony.

>The middle 20% made about $50,000 to $100,000. The MEAN income, as opposed the median, in New York County, was $125,000. Which means you make not only 4X the median, but twice the average.
In other words, YOU ARE NOT MIDDLE CLASS even for Manhattan. STFU.

First, need to exclude the projects, and above 86th street on the east side and 96th street on the west side - that's what people really mean.
Second, have to look at people who are actually earning, not the 47%.

Dues....I hear you. I make about the same and feel "poor" in Tribeca. Not a decent 2 BR for under 2M in the Soho - Tribeca area. We have a warped sense of reality despite knowing how truly well we do. Staying in Manhattan with your 3 kids will instil in them the same sense of delusion we have. I'd move to the burbs and start living a "normal-ish" life.

Glad the grid is back up in staten island you re humping troll.

Seriously, when'd ya last touch a dick for pleasure? On se 24/7. Flmaozzz. Oh Lordy. I'm off buying another Viking yacht while you troll away. Like i tell my ' friends'. World of Warcraft is not real! It's a video game. Get out and touch a vagina once in awhile.

Flmaozzz. Go troll. Go troll. Whoot.

Hey ponyboy, which one is it?
>Seriously, when'd ya last touch a dick for pleasure?
>Get out and touch a vagina once in awhile.

your friends are trolls?
>Like i tell my ' friends'. World of Warcraft is not real!

>Oh Lordy. I'm off buying another Viking yacht while you troll away.
Actually, you aren't off anywhere, you are here. one trick pony.

Brooks is not a retired Air Force fighter pilot.

w67th doesn't have all of the wealth and material things he writes about on se.

This is se fantasy land.

Family with 2 kids.
Rent 8k/month for 3 bed. School 35k*2. Nanny 60k. Food,utilities,parking,car 4k/month. Summer rental/vacations 30k. Tax rate including fed,nys & city approx 50%.
This equals (8*12+35*2+60+4*12+30)/0.5 = 608k, the bare minimum on which to survive, saving nothing and buying no jewelry or art.

Nyc is an expensive place.

Come home with 300k after taxes, then you are in a good position to live in prime places in manhattan.

>Brooks is not a retired Air Force fighter pilot.
>w67th doesn't have all of the wealth and material things he writes about on se.
>This is se fantasy land.

This is all one big Lie.

Agree with early comment by PH41 to the effect that deucescracked = w67th.

you think w67 has an alias?
I don't.

I do. I am not going to publish my thesis because I think w67th is hilarious and I don't want to compromise what I believe to be his respectable identity.

I had not come across deucescracked before, but I believe this to be his as well.

>I do. I am not going to publish my thesis because I think w67th is hilarious and I don't want to compromise what I believe to be his respectable identity.

Very convenient. Make an accusation, but then refuse to back it up for some extraneous irrelevant reason but position it as if it because you have integrity.

I - and others - are on to you, counselor.

I would expect nothing less of you HB. I do have to admit that the one thing holding me back from being totally convinced of my thesis is that you had not already thought of it and published it. I believe you to be more clever and observant than I, so if you don't see it, I am thinking it might not actually be there.

>I believe you to be more clever and observant than I,

I already said I'm in the top 10%, so you are going to have to do better than that.

HB - Can you do some research on duecescracked? An interesting poster who really should be on all the same threads as Nada and w67th. If SE turns the lights out on the "talk" feature, I hope they will keep the archives somewhere, maybe make a book out of the greatest hits. There is so much good information in the old discussions, and the personalities are priceless.

Hey novice. Seen field hamster lately?

Hi w67th. I'm sure you'll find him. You are hilarious, and I no longer even suspect that you and Nada are one and the same. Totally random question - have you ever taken your boat to Ibiza?

Nah. Totally inexpensive to charter a sailboat in Ibiza or thereabouts. Don't have time to sail my boat all that way. Can have my crew sail it over, it's too small to really do it proper.
Need a 60 footer to invite friends and have 2 crew.

>W57thstreet - just have friend who can both crew and cook on the smaller boat. We have friends with a 45 footer who go out all the time wwith 2 or 3 other couples ; they're sailors but they also have fun cooking what they find in the various ports :Thailand, Indonesia, Greece Italy , etc.

The big boys race for the trhll - check out karl kwok beau geste race. He won in 1977, (and in many races since)and is trying to win this particular race again, though his last boat broke apart in heavy seas.
His family is pissed becase they waant hin to ski with them in Chamonix, and his is not doingi t

Also, just recently realized that you should never change the hme of your boat,
Found this out after being on safari witha friend who has winning boat naned "impala" , which in Africa is basically dinner for the larger animals. Will not change name as this is reall bad luck

Sorry, above directed >West67street

I don't get why people are attacking his/her wife? The comment was just that she wanted to personalize the space and felt she couldn't because "it's a rental". Of course, these are not REAL problems, but some sort of beautification desire is normal whether someone is living in a mud hut or a very grand Belgravia house.