The 505

We went to the sales office. Closings will not take place until the first quarter of 2009. I walked by the site 6 weeks ago and it was a hole in the ground. It's still a hole in the ground six weeks later; no further construction has taken place. No foundation poured. The agent claimed not to know anything about the site saying he'd never been there....

Sligo

word from the sales office is that many of the units are already in contract.. i'm considering a studio.. anybody else out there considering purchasing there? i'm being quoted prices of around $1150/sqft...

I find it very hard to believe they are already in contract with units- I think that is a sales pitch. For one, the units just went up for sale 1 week ago and plans were first made available to people then to even review. There is no way they drafted and got comments,signed on both sides that quickly. Also, where are the "signed contracts" listed on street easy. The people weren't very friendly there.

Also, $1150 per sq ft is high for area. Just bought for $900 per sq ft in same area - new construction too.

I also found it hard to believe that they'd sold 50 per cent of the units in less than a week and had contracts in hand. They were repeating the sales pitch verbatim to all the clients in the offic. Also, why hasn't there been any construction? I first walked by there a couple of months ago and nothing has changed. That suggests a problem????

They are trying to get you to buy right away. This isn't closing in Q1 2009 either. A place( 1 block away) and similar construction was suppose to close in July and now it's Nov. Just starting to close on certain floors. Most floors not projected to close until end of Dec. If you do buy, add a clause if they don't close Q1 you can get downpayment back. You may be out of a living space for some time! New contruction NEVER closed on time. TCO's are hard for these guys to get.

I signed the contract there. I went on the first day and all the units made available to the public that day were reserved. I was also shocked, considering the weak housing market status right now. But... it's cheap... It's quite difficult to look for new condo construction under $1200/sqft. Also by the time the deal is closed early 2009 (or mid depending on progress), interest rate will be at least 100bps lower (acc. to economists' forecast). So you are locking in lower rates and I do not think prices will drop significantly (it will be TOO detrimental to the economy at this point). This area is not fully developed yet but it's definitely up and coming considering all the new builds in the area. I reserved a one bedroom overlooking the garden. Heard that the tax abatement may end next year. Anyone hear about this?

Is everyone aware that these are being built over active Amtrack train tracks? They plan on creating a platform over the railway and then building the units on top.

Didn't know there was active tracks on 47th.I though they were building the 505 on top of the tracks. I did just read MTA passed #7 train construction, but, it will not stop on 41st and 10th, only the 34th st Javitts Center stop will be created.

kelee - I may be wrong (things change so quickly and certain areas have exceptions for specific reasons) but I thought developments had to start building by a certain date for the abatement program. I thought that date had passed. Am I off?

i've heard that they needed to have "broken ground" by June or so of this past year to be eligible for the tax abatements..

and i'm not aware of the tracks below the 505 to be -active- tracks..

unfriendly, unhelpful staff. this looks like a scam......steer your clients away from this place---very suspicious......

new on board, I went to the sales office 3 days after it opened. no one game me the time of day so I just took the brochure (which didn't have much info and left). But regarding the building on tracks, my friend showed it to me. Here's the link http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/pdf/cpc/040116.pdf

According to City Planning Comm'n document in above link, the site is above an Amtrak "active right of way." Whether that means trains actually use the right of way isn't clear. Not sure what "active" means here. (See p. 3 of above link)

Halstead agent responded to my email...

I am not a liberty to discuss our business but I am here to tell you
that the 505 is NOT a scam and we have greater than 50% of our building
units with contracts out.. 9 contracts have been signed and fully
executed..
If you haven't been to our sales office I encourage you to come in and
see what is
really happening. This is one of the most exciting projects I've seen
in my Real Estate Career.

When I went by the site workers stopped what they were doing so trains could pass. This may not be the case after the project is built, but for now it's an active track.

i believe it is and will remain an active track-- the unit is being built over it. so this may mean some rumbling/noise for the lower floors?

Please note that the pdf above is from 2004 when another development firm owned this site. They seem to have sold it again in 2007 to a new developer. NB: The design is subject to Amtrak approval.

Sounds like not a great place to buy. Especially the settling issues for the new building. If you sign a contract- be sure the sponsor will pay for any defects not only "latent defects to the eye". I would stay away! There are so many more places in Hell's Kitchen that sound much more appealing for same or less price.

kelee: I live near the project, and am familiar with the other very similar building directly one block south.

IMHO this is a section of Hells Kitchen that is still pretty depressing. The streets (it will have entrances on both 47th and 48th) have several auto body outfits on each -- typical of the 10th-to-11th avenue corridor of the area, which has a lot of auto/industrial roots. In addition, 48th St. further west of the 505 has a Salvation Army center of some sort, with sort of down-and-out types hanging out there during the day and early evening. The one bright spot is the Sullivan St. Bakery on 47th St., which is a nice place, but it's small and really just a retail storefront.

I think the whole area is on the way up, but I think there are better streets in the neighborhood, such as 42nd-44th and 53rd and above.

Since it's tough to predict how quickly the neighborhood will improve, my main advice would be to absolutely not buy there unless you are --> convinced <-- that you are getting good value for your money, relative to your wants and needs.

And perhaps my biggest piece of advice is to really scrutinize the apartment layouts and room sizes. My apologies to any agents who have repped there, but the very similar building to the 505, called "The Clinton West," one block south over the railroad tracks, is infamous for its small room sizes. I believe the 505 is being done by the same developer. Typical 2nd bedroom sizes in the 2BRs I have seen at Clinton West are about 9' by 9-1/2'. I would say that for other new construction in the area that I have seen, 11x11-1/2 has been more typical, and in this respect the building is stingier on space. The living rooms are also relatively shallow, somehing like about 20' deep from entry hallway to window, vs. a more typical 26' in other buildings in the area. So make sure the 505 has more standard room sizes. See: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/516-west-47-street-manhattan and http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/517-west-46-street-manhattan, which are really different entrances of the same complex.

I know that from the beginning of that development, agents were baffled by the small room layouts, because having rooms with a bit more space has been key to luring people out to new develoment at the far west parts of Hell's Kitchen.

Good luck, and shop carefully.

I think I lost part of my prior comment.

What I meant to add is that you should be sure to scrutinize the room sizes at the 505. The very similar building, one block to the south over the railroad tracks, is the Clinton West. It is notorious for substandard room sizes, and I think the 505 is being done by the same developer. At Clinton West, typical second bedrooms in the 2BRs are about 9' x 9-1/2', vs. a more normal 11 x 11-1/2 for other BRs in the neighborhood. The Clinton West's footprint resulted in a lot of apartments that are only about 20' deep, I think, from hallway to windows, vs. more like 26' which I think is more typical.

One of the key reasons that buildings in Hell's Kitchen have generally done well is that developers generally created units with more space than in other areas in NYC. This was done to help lure people to what was until 5 or so years ago a pretty marginal area. Make sure you scrutinize the room sizes at the 505 carefully.

ANOTHERGUY: thanks for your input. since you said you live near the project, do you hear any Amtrak train noise? does your apartment rattle when trains pass?

I am not directly over the train tracks, but a few buildings over, so I can't say exactly. I'm not close enough to get any rattling, and I don't find the noise extraordinary -- it's the sort of thing where you notice it when you first move in, but then it kind of blends in with other city noise. For instance, leaving the windows open during the day, you get a lot more in-your-face noise just from typical traffic, like when a loud truck blasts by, than from the trains.

Now I realize there is no such thing as a perfect location in NY. But you should also be aware that on the NW corner of 10th ave and 48th St., there is a City of NY long-term water main project under construction. When I first moved to the area, there was some blasting going on there during the work day, but nothing in recent months. I have no idea what that location will ultimately look like when they're finished.

If you wanted to do some due diligence, you should stop by and talk to people who live in the Clinton West, which is the building directly over the tracks, one block south.

The 505 is a SCAM!

I, too, had similar concerns re. the railroad track. Went to Clinton West, asked the doorman, asked the residents. All said no prob. So passed that test. As for it being a scam, any plans with approved Offering in Manhattan can't really be a scam. There are city/state regulations that prohibit certain constructions/plans for the developers. And Halstead and Nestseekers would not promote a scam project for their reputation. So I am not agreesing with the scam factor. I was however concerned about how pushy the salespeople seemed (I went on the first day and the office was over capacity). But at the end of the day, I think it is supply and demand. If you look at all the new developments in the City, it is over $750mn for 1 bedroom in semi-decent locations. Sure, 47th and 10th is still quite a down low location, but that is reflected in the price, in my view. So demand is high for low end condos strictly looking for decent rental yields (doesn't make too much sense to buy a high end rental unit at the current state of economy). But all I can say from my experience with this property is just how crazy the Manhattan market is still, esp for new builds. Re. tax abatement, there is a possibility it will be lifted next year. Technically The 505 has broken ground (pls go check out the site yourself - you need to look through the barricades). As for how the agents are marketing The 505 - sales pitch is it will be better looking than Clinton West (right across it). Not too sure whether this will hold true following completion but that's how they are advertising The 505.

Sorry part of my comment was misstated for some reason. Correction 1 bedroom $750,000 - $1mn range. Also re. the low end condos - demand comes from two types of buyers. One people who just can't afford the high end condos offered these days. And two investors looking for decent rental yields (for students/young professionals working in the midtown investment banks).

I actually live at Clinton West, 3rd Floor, directly overlooking the new construction site and the soon to be covered railroad tracks. My husband and I are looking to upgrade to a two bedroom and we have a hold on a condo at 505. We think Clinton West is actually a great building and we see 505 as a better version of Clinton West. The Hell's Kitchen area is changing and it is only getting nicer. If you are looking for a good investment in this area, I don't think you can go wrong with 505.

As for the train, I talked to my super who lives on the first floor, facing the street. He said it is a non-factor. We live in the city, so street noise in inevitable. From our vantage point on the 3rd floor, we hear the train but it isn't any louder than the cars and trucks that drive by. Also, for those of you concerned that progress isn't being made on the building, that is not true. They broke ground around April of this year and the pillars for the foundation are in place. That being said, I don't know if Feb 2009 is accurate, but progress is definitely being made. We see it on a daily basis.

nyc1 my old friend is one of the developers, you are in good hands at 505.......

nyc1... that's good to hear! which unit did you reserve? i thought floorplans at the 505 were one of the key selling points.

We have a hold on a first floor unit looking into the courtyard. There is a 10 year tax abatement, the whole building is wireless, and every unit will have a washer/dryer. The gym will also be state of the art, and there will be a communal garden as well as a roof terrace. These are just a few of the reasons why 505 is so attractive.

If anyone has concerns about construction, the building not finishing on time, etc., those are issues you can bring up with your attorney and add to the contract. Also, the 505 is NOT the same developer as Clinton West.

Has anyone heard anything about 517 W. 46th St.? I just read some not so good things about it (shoddy construction, cheap fixtures, etc.)

Yes. I heard about 517 W. 46th St. property as well. I think it's generally in a diff class than the 505 and even Clinton West. Did you get your attorney to add the clause? Mine advised me not to as the deal can fall through...

I reserved a one bed unit overlooking garden on the 4th floor. Due to the open kitchen floor plan, looks quite spacious eventhough total sqft is 630sqft.

What is this about the tax abatement ending next year? Where did you hear that?

Also, the trains are absolutely active. Look on the Amtrak website. It is the "Empire Line" -- they run about once an hour until 10:45 p.m.

Has anyone gone to the area to listen to the trains?

The project looks great, the best I've seen in a while -- minus the train issue perhaps.

i think it's risky to buy in a building that is built over nothing but air. while they are building a platform over the space for the 2 trains to run through, it is still in the end a building built on stilts basically.

October07 - initially I would say yes, however, this is New York...what part of the city do you think is not built over platforms (subway), waterways (battery park), sewage systems, etc.

It is a risk, but at the prices being offered, and in an area slated for much development, a risk that may be worth it in the end. That is the unknown.

An area of concern is that Clinton West (across the street and also built over a platform) has many resales and for low, low prices (2 bd coming in around 880k to 975k). Why so low?

Even Trump Towers are built over active trains. It's a part of the city that you can't avoid... I spoke to Clinton West residents and they say no prob with the train noise at all. I think if you are on floor higher than 3rd, it shouldn't impact more than any other city noise. Clinton West, which I visited several times, is a decent building. But the 505 advertises itself at a higher end than Clinton West. The latter was sold at $800/sqft in 2006 - so lot of investors made good profit on that property. But again, I would put the 505 at a higher rating for both the building construction and design.

actually i take that back my prior comment about the train line. eventually this whole Hell's Kitchen area will be developed over and the train lines will not be an issue.

Well, it is still being built on stilts -- I agree. Nothing is better than solid ground, but yes, the entire Hell's Kitchen will be developed over those tracks. In 10 years no one will even remember them.

If you take a look at the City plans for Hudson Yards, the plan includes closing up the entire line and building a park over it. Its really going to be a GREAT area.

http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/hyards/area.shtml

Also note however that a part of this project is adding Metro-North to this same train line! I know that Clinton West doesn't mind the trains because they are only 10 a day -- make that more like 50 a day in a few years!

As for Trump Towers, that is a completely different building and I'm sure Trump has the best of the best with respect to sound engineering.

What you have to make sure with respect to the 505 is that these guys know what they are doing. There is much technology out there with respect to sound proofing and vibration proofing -- the question is, are they using it?

the construction company and engineering company building the platform for the 505 condo are both solid, experienced companies using top of the line technology, and they have had experience doing this same type of construction for other buildings in the city. i had an experienced independent engineering colleague here in manhattan tell me this.

interestingly enough, in terms of platforms, the nyc government link you provided states that one hundred years ago an entire portion of midtown, from Madison Avenue to Lexington Avenue (which includes Park Avenue no less!), was built on a platform over rail lines and that one hundred years later, the trains still run under this massive swath of midtown on the east side. it's quite fascinating all the history of Manhattan. thanks for sending the link!

October07 -- do you have a hold on a unit?

Listen, in the end, the units are the prices they are for a reason. The developer is testing the waters with the public -- will they buy over train tracks? I can tell you it's not the area the developer is concerned with (take a look at the prices of Chatam 44!).

Only thing to keep in mind -- those tracks are more than 25 feet below the apartment buildings. But yes, in theory, all of Manhattan is over something. As for the people in Clinton West -- depends who you talk to. I can tell you NOT ALL the people living there have said there is no noise.

My concern still lies with the expansion of Metro North on those tracks. That will cause for NOISE NOISE NOISE!

Can someone please answer my question about the tax abatement issue? Isn't it a 10 year (with 20% increments starting in 5)? Who said it is ending next year?

The tax abatement program generally is in the process of being revamped. Properties that were begun by a certain date continue to fall under the old program's guidelines. The new guidelines restrict tax abatements to developments that actually include middle or low-income housing (you can no longer just buy the abatement rights from another developer who is doing so). It's very hard to find concrete information about this. Ask a good real estate broker. They'll know the details. When I was looking (not at this property) a number of marketing people said similar things (we've applied for an abatement, and have every expectation that we'll get one). I wouldn't be comfortable with that right now, but that's me, I'm fairly risk averse.

I'm about to gather the 10% down for a 2/2 facing the courtyard (thus hopefully making it a quieter unit). Where can you find new construction in a decent area of Manhattan, for $1000 / sq ft, with a 421A 10 year tax abatement, where units have washer dryer, top of the line finishes, and amenities include roof top lounge with BBQ, courtyards, gym, etc?

Yes, it may close in Jan, Feb, March 2009, or even 2010, so plan accordingly, but if you don't have to rush, what is the rush? It will hopefully appreciate in the meantime? Also, this was an exclusive to Halstead the past few weeks, for obvious reason as to not share commissions, but they had an open house this Sunday and are now over 80% sold in 4 weeks.

Everything in Manhattan has its price, and if you can find similar new construction for $1000 / sq ft (except maybe financial district or above 96th st), please send or post here asap as I make my decision!

Thanks

i really don't know enough about the market's specifics these days to say, but i just think you want to be sure you're getting the unit for a very solid discount to what the new 8th avenue high rise buildings are asking. the 505 neighborhood is just a lot more marginal, due to the 2+ avenues further west of 8th avenue that it's in. the area is on the upswing for now, that i can definitely tell you, but west of 10th is still mostly industrial/institutional, so it'll still take a while, under the best of circumstances, for the amenities to begin to approach those of 9th avenue and east. just imho.

What price per sq ft? Appreciate any links to the sites or listings for the 8th Avenue properties mentioned please.

Thanks

Don't even bother looking at those east of 9th or 8th (you can google the Platinum which is one new constructions on 8th). What I like about the 505 is exactly that it is west of 9th. Anything east of 9th is for a different audiance altogether, more of a hotel-like professional housing, not a home. Yes, I agree with anotherguy that it will take some time for west of 10th to develop, but it will. However, even if it stays as is for a while, it is still a great neighborhood with nice restaurants and shops lining 10th and 9th. It is a neighborhood -- exactly why I like it, compared to 8th avenue.

As for your question regarding new construction for $1000 sq. foot between financial and 96th -- I haven't found it yet, and I've looked. But remember, the prices are they way they are for a reason. Nothing, especially in New York, is for free.

Plus, Platinum and those other building are far more expensive, right?

I think 505 is a great deal for $1000 / sq ft.

I'm just saying that I know the area and it is still a little rough, and I think the 10th-to-12th avenue corridor is kind of bleak. I have every expectation that it'll eventually get better, but I don't know how long that'll take. Also keep in mind that the area has a lot of auto body shops, car dealerships and old service stations. One of the reasons it has been slow to get cleaned up is that there are a lot of environmental issues with taking over those sites and putting up new construction (old underground oil storage tanks, etc.). It's not a coincidence that the new development is going on over the railroad tracks, and not just a few feet over on solid ground where old businesses used to be. I think it'll take a while before the area becomes desirable enough to overcome the environmental costs. Compare that to the 8th to 10th avenue corridors, which have always been primarily residential.

That being said, I'm sure the 505 it offers good value on a $-per sq foot basis for Manhatta. Just make sure that you're getting a good discount vs. avenues further east to compensate for the location and the slower redevelopment as I mention above.

Whoops - Streeteasy won't let me post this many links. Will put them in separate posting.

The couple of places I know on 8th Ave. http://www.platinumnyc.com/ also see Streeteasy link http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/247-west-46th-street-new_york.

http://www.thelinknyc.com/ also see http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/310-west-52-street-manhattan

http://www.orion42.com/ also see http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/350-west-42-street-new_york

Again, all three of the buildings listed in the links are highrise, midtown types. Nothing in those scream a home for me, but, that's a personal choice.

So airahcaz -- when you say you went to the open house and it was 80% sold -- did you differentiate between 80% offering plans purchased or 80% in contract? Did you get clarification on that?

Also, did you ask about the train tracks and the potential noise? Have you asked around about it? Any guidance?

hk,

I'm not in contract yet, but I really don't put huge emphasis on the railroad, this is NYC. Whether in contract or not, they are selling out fairly quickly, I highly doubt they are making any of it up, I don’t see the reason / logic to do so. Visit and you'll see.

anotherguy,
I've seen those, and all those buildings are way more costly, from what I have seen, right?

Well here's some idea of the planned devlepment for the area, and hopefully resulting in appreciation for any purchasers. The Vu Hotel will be opening up on 48th and 11th in 2008. Here's an interesting exceprt from a recent NY Times article (link below):

"Although Mr. Furbay said Kimpton initially found Hell’s Kitchen “an odd location” for a hotel, he said it was won over by what it believes is its growth potential. He said that in recent years the neighborhood has attracted not only residential real estate development, but also grocery stores, bars and restaurants, migrating westward from Ninth Avenue.

Regret is another factor, he admitted. He said Kimpton looked at a site in what was then the remote meatpacking district five years ago, but decided against going in there; this later became the successful Gansevoort Hotel, at Ninth Avenue and 13th Street.

On the Far West Side of Midtown, “we were worried we’d make the same mistake twice,” he said. “We didn’t want to overlook an area where it wasn’t immediately obvious why there was no hotel there.”

http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/06/27/realestate/commercial/27hotel.html

So hk, are you really "interested" in hk, or the505?

Both. Doing my research. That's why I'm on here.

You? You sign that contract yet? Are you in attorney review? Find anything that you particularly don't like or like about the 505?

The 505 seems to be a great project. There will be many more to come over the years, but the prices may significantly increase as the area develops. Might be the best time to get in now.

I too cannot find anything amiss (other than having to pay the costly NY Sponsor and mortgage transfer taxes, ugh! I'm in contract for a 2/2 facing court yard in north building, south sunlight. Also got a storage unit.

My attorney told me he's hasn't seen anything at $1000 a sq ft for new construction, and he only does ny real estate.

I believe it. I've done a lot of research. The price is right. Just saw an article about the fact that the 1,000,000 dollar studio is becoming the norm in Manhattan! I assume your paying just around that or a bit more or under for the 2/2.

By the way -- don't forget to tack on the mansion tax on top. Another 1%. Also, take a look at the adjusted mortgage recording tax for any mortgages over $500k.

Well, that's all in almost all new construction you buy anyhow and is not unique to the 505.

One thing I find particularly interesting is that the developers (at least Parkview) are former owners of the Sunglass Hut International -- not much development background at all. (take a look at Parkview's website). Concerns me, but so long as the City (and Amtrak!) does its job on inspections, it should be ok.

Also, what have been your comparisons? I have looked at http://www.ateliercondos.com/, http://www.omnicondos.com/, Orion, 516 W47, htt://www.clintonwest.com, you name it

hkinterested, in actuality........they started and BUILT 100 watch stores and sold to Sunglasshut, and have bought sold and renovated buildings, and Apartements. Though this is indeed thier first ground up development, these are extremly competent people. The other developers are vastly experienced at ground up development(lev leview)

I haven't looked at Orion, but the other two are not ivestments you want to make. Atelier has a lot of problems on resales. Might have something to do with its location, don't know. 516 West 47th is a low-scale luxury building. It was originally slated to be rentals, and they are built like them.

I've looked at 517 West 46th -- horrible! New construction and they are having a lot of trouble selling. The Sponsor is now paying transfer tax fees as an incentive -- not enough of an incentive for me. Very, very poor construction with low cost fixtures. Looks like IKEA took over!

Don't know of anything else in new construction in the area.

When I went to 517 76th, amongst many other problems were the floors being uneven to the point of almost making you trip when there was nothing there to trip you, something the guy claimed there is sponging underneath and they cant do much about it. Horrible, but hey, that was the closest thing price wise (new). Nor was I ready to move in tomorrow, so the505 works out nicely for me, whether Jan 2009 or Dec 2009.

typo, 46th, and 47th too

hk,

I got in under the mansion tax too! Yippee!

Realize that the mansion tax is applied to the total closing costs (including state and city transfer taxes), not the price of the unit. If you still got under, and got a 2/2 then you got an amazing deal!

Also, did you get any protection in the case that the unit does not close on the given date? Usually new construction gives 6 months or 12 months.

I think I'll still be under, will check with my attorney. I'm flexible on the closing.

When are you pulling the trigger? I think there are about 5 1 beds left, and a couple 2 beds.

I am in review for a 2/2 also.

Seems like prices are falling just a bit in Manhattan, but not in new construction, unless the Sponsor is having trouble selling (like 46th Street).

I think the prices at The 505 are right.

I am glad sentiment is turning better on the 505. I went on the 1st day and reserved a 1 bed unit facing the garden on 4th floor. I've done my research and agree with others - You can't find anything of this value in reasonable locations (ex Harlem Wall St).

I have to say Halstead brokers were really rude though. 1st was crazy. Hope it's better now. One question. Is there really only 5 1 beds available? Or is this just of the ones that have been released?

Have your broker call, easiest way to get info. They were probably rude cause of the demand, and attempting getting in as many appointments as possible. You know how sales folks operate.

Yes, pricing even beats these as compared to relative value:

http://www.117condo.com/

http://www.soha118.com/

We were there on the third day and the Halstead brokers were uncommonly rude and aggressive even going so far as to suggest that unless we put down money right away without looking at the offering plan we would lose any opportunity to purchase. Needless to say we didn't. We've bought and sold property for 30 years and, needless to say, this was the worst hard sell we've ever experience. Think about it: if it's such a good deal, why were they pushing so bloody hard? And if that foundation ain't in by the end of December, there's no tax abatement...

Planty -- where are you getting that tax abatement information. I've actually done a lot of research and it appears that the tax abatement status by the City of New York has been extended until June 2008 now, and they expect it will continue to extend.

I have to say, I haven't experienced any rudeness with the Halstead brokers. In fact I have called and emailed with many questions and they have always got back to me the same day.

I do believe their pitch of 5 units or 80% or whatever left is BS, but I do know that at least their website has quite a few "in contracts". I think overall the sales are doing quite well.

They did not tell me anything that if I didn't put a deposit down that I would lose an opportunity. Maybe things have calmed down now. I'm not saying it is the deal of a century, I'm sure there will be others, but I can say that I have searched all around, and for the price, the location and what your getting, I'm comfortable it is a good investment.

Abatement to June 2008, agreed, but they already 'broke ground'. Take a walk by.

What does rudeness matter in a business transaction? They will be long gone by 2009, thus the decision to purchase is not based on salespeople at all, so put more emphasis into your attorney and broker. :)

Couldn't agree more airahcaz. I come across rude people everday. If I were deterred from my own personal opportunities because of their rudeness, I would make nothing in this world.

Also, yes, they have "broke ground" -- anyhow, there is still no guarantee of an abatement, but that is a chance with all new construction. Still not sure why the taxes in that area are so high (without the abatement) anyhow -- any opinions?

Confirmed that not all are released and they will increase pricing as they release more.

What populates the Sales and Rentals on this site, specifically for this building, as they are both showing zeros?

http://media.halstead.com/pdf/505_avail_111007.pdf

But like you said, those are of only those released so far. I'm sure the prices will go higher on the second round, the only issue is whether they will sell at the higher prices or how long the sponsor is willing to hold them at the higher prices until a buyer is found.

If you are in contract or have an offering plan, price changes should be reflected in any amendments to the offering plan, for all of the units, not just those released.

So far everything seems ligit -- don't know what the SCAM is referring to?

Legit. I don't think they'll lower prices, so willing to have taken the risk to buy at orginal offering plan prices and wait. All about supply and demand.

I'm in contract and have up to the 3rd amendment, wonder if I'll continue to get the amendments.

I've looked into 517 West 47th St. 2/2 on the 2nd floor. The price is about 870/sf. The finish is little cheap but the price is unbeatable. Their common charge is about $0.55/sf compare to $1 on 505
Any thoughts?

There are too many for resale in that builing, which worries me. The finishes are cheap as it was built to be a rental. I don't know, the more I've learned from my research is that people in New York want luxury and are willing to pay for it. If this is a place you are looking to live in for a while, and you don't mind the finishes, than yes, it is a better deal than the 505. However, if you are looking for appreciation or resale value, even if you do plan on living there for a while, it is not your best bet. The 505 may be more per square foot, and I agree the common charges are high, but people are willing to pay for what you get at the 505 compared to a building like 517 West 47th. Nonetheless, I know people who live in that building and are quite happy with it.

Question: How about the "manager's unit" (aka friend of the Sponsor) at the 505 that will be paid for through the common charges? Any opinion on that one? That is something that can always be sold through the Condo Board if voted on, but I think that is probably one of the heavier costs of the common charges. Is this typical in the City?

I visited 517 as well, the small windows were horrendous, no? Felt like jail, barely any view / sun, dark.

You're reffering to:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/516-west-47-street-manhattan

http://www.clintonwest.com/

??

Yes, yes. 516 West 47th.

517 West 46th is altogether horrible and I would defintely not by there. That place is a mess and the developer should be ashamed. That is no deal -- would you buy a car that was guaranteed to fall apart within a week of its purchase just because it was half off?

Are finishes (within the unit) that big a deal? Don't people typically remodel after a few years, anyway, or customize sooner?

If buying new, remodeling probably doesn't happen until after 10 years, and thus finishes and appliances play a great role when purchasing new. Why not seek the best for your money from the start?

However, number 1 rule is always Location.

http://ny.metro.us/metro/local/article/Five_visions_for_new_West_Side/10787.html

Acc. to my figures, they've released 50% of the units so far. Is that right? Looks like this sub-prime issue is really blowing over... Hope they can maintain this price level!

Hi, which figures are you referencing?

Ooops. Sorry. Halstead said 80% has been sold. I think this is among the units that were released - which I think is 50% of total units to be sold...

Right, but is that a guess, or are you referencing some actual numbers?

I'd be very surprised if they sold over 80%. I think they are doing well, but not that well!

As for the sub-prime issue and sales in this building. Since this building is NOT contingent upon financing the people buying in this building either are very financially stable or just plain stupid. Assuming that the large group are most likely foreign investors not effected by sub-prime or slowing housing market issues, I don't think that this building, along with many in Manhattan can be grouped into those facing the sub-prime issues.

Manhattan is a different market altogether and in fact there was a few articles just the other day discussing this --

http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN0338260820070703

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/11/realestate/11deal1.html?ex=1352523600&en=2494fa56ca58b4b7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I believe with time the market in Manhattan will slow too -- but I keep praying the foreigners will keep coming! Buy one, get one free -- keep it coming!

Just back of the envelope calculation from my amendments... They have raised the price on the ones that are released... But it looks like 50% is still not out in the market...

Rumors:

70% released.

80% of those released are in contract.

Where are those numbers coming from?

I just left Starr Associates, who are acting on behalf of the sponsor. 43 under contract. Over half released in both buildings. Fastest selling development he's (assistant) ever witnessed.

67% from developers mouth by thanksgiving weekend....sold

Well, once again, a discrepency in the numbers -- 43 of 101 does not equal 67%. And since when do we believe the lawyers (or better yet, their assistants!).

hk I got that number from the developer....might mean some are in process(contract out etc) dont know...however it has been huge success anyway you look at it.

Indeed, it is not like it is NOT selling. Put it this way, doesn't matter a huge deal if they are sold out tomorrow or by Spring, but they will sell all, and prices should have gone up by closing.

However, it does matter if you are a potential buyer on the sidelines.

Buddy went yesterday to sales office, no 2/2 left under 1 MM, penthouses remain at over 1 MM.

What are the prices on the reamining penthouses?

How are sales going?

Has anyone been past the property lately to see progress on development?

$1.35 mm.

All 102 released, 19 remain, 83 in contract, so 82% sold. Don't ask me from where I got this info.