Working with a broker

mcr, I don't think a buy-side rental broker has any sort of exclusivity on your fee. At your price range, very few will ask you to sign an agreement, and if they do, you can just tell them "no". Proper ettiquete is to have a broker who first shows you a listing be the representative and get the fee. Many rental agreements will have you indemnify the owner against claims from misrepresentation about your broker. If you have a broker you like, but don't want to be limited by them, email the listing broker, cc-ing your own broker, and do things that way. When I was recently looking, I considered such an arrangement with the bulk of my broker's fee getting discounted back to me, but at the end decided against it. Between my style of apt-finding, and the skewed incentives of a listing broker getting the full fee (i.e., the listing broker will take the amount and then more out of the owner's hide incentivized by the one-sided fee), I decided against it.

FYI, you might find my rental strategy tips useful. It might be less suitable for you if this is your first time, but maybe it'd be fine. Search for my name in this thread:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/23984-when-to-seriously-start-looking

I think it depends on the broker -- I've been following mcr's posts, and would love to pitch my services, but would certainly NOT work with someone who didn't pay me something if I curate listings for them, and traipse around with them, and educate them -- even if they walk into something else at the last minute.

I love doing rentals because I love the thrill of the chase, and the quick high of getting someone into the right fit quickly -- and I've found some great rental customers on the Net. However, I can't take time away from my sales customers without the promise of some kind of loyalty in return.

Frankly, I think most "good" rental brokers are good enough that they have competing sales business, and will feel similarly. Anyone willing to work on an non-exclusive basis probably isn't very busy, and by extrapolation, maybe not very good.

Just my two cents -- other agents out there? Keith? Digs?

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

ali {at] dgneary [dot] com

Front_porch - makes a lot of sense, and I would feel the same way. This is why I have not enlisted broker yet. I have some time to do legwork myself in the short-term and love looking at real estate. However, if I do not find place on my own by my deadline, I will need to turn process over to broker, at which point any leads that came to me through whatever channel I would just forward to broker and ask them to set up appointments. You may hear from me yet, though my first hope is that I can find the right fit by traipsing around myself.
Inonada - your posts fascinate me. While I have some time to do legwork, I know I do not have enough time (or energy!) to do all the legwork you prescribe, but I wish I did.

mcr, thank you. I hang out on streeteasy a lot and love the clients I get from it (and even the hardcore DIY-ers, like nada).

can I ask what you saw that you didn't like?

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

I will tell you when it is all over. They say that everyone should live in SF, but leave before they get too soft; and that everyone should live in NYC, but leave before they get too hard. Coming to NYC after all my years in SF is lending credence to this wisdom. Today was the second day of my on-the-ground education and I am enjoying it very much. At this point all I will say is that in my extremely limited NYC experience to-date, NYC rental buildings cannot compete with condo or townhouse rentals. I believe responses to my earliest post said as much. Today I focused only on the latter, and it was a far more productive day. Things are looking up.

FP, I don't think it's right to switch a buy-side broker willy-nilly. I think that mcr is concerned about getting "stuck" with a broker that isn't good for whatever reason. As long as a broker is working for you, represent all interactions as such. But if you decide that this broker is not serving your needs, you can cut it off for places you have not yet viewed.

The condo / townhouse stock will indeed likely have what you are looking for. As far as my apt hunting strategy, it's obviously a disease. How else do you explain all the time I spend here?

One thing I hope you have also learned beyond the condo vs. rental thing. In SF, if the cheapest place asks, say, $4000 for X, the most expensive will be $5500. In NYC, it'll be $4000 vs. $8000. Wading through the shit is a rite of passage.

One other piece of advice. Nearly all the listings on SE will be exclusive, and focus on ones that are well-marketed with pics. There may be a hidden gem somewhere, but your odds of finding it are low. If something looks suspicious, click on the broker's name to see how many listings they have. There are very few brokers that legitimately have more than, say, 6 exclusive rental listings at any point in time.

Also, in case it wasn't clear, if you decide to work with a broker, you could do a lot worse than front_porch IMO.

There is no exclusivity with a rental broker, as far as I understand it. When you respond to an ad online, for example, a broker may show you a few things. then, you'll respod to another ad and then another broker will show you things. That's how it works. Even if one broker shows you a bunch of places on multiple days, but then you find something on your own, why would you owe the broker a fee? It doesn't make sense to me.

I was adamantly against using a broker, but it really depends what you're looking for. If you want a big building with nice amenities there are quite a few places to go to directly (i.e. TF Cornerstone). If you want a walkup that's a little run down there are places to go to directly as well (i.e. Jakobson). But if you want something a little bit more "home-y" or "unique", it's close to impossible to find it without a broker - I don't mean doing the search, but finding a location where the broker doesn't have the listing already.

I spend a lot of time on here and put in at least 2 months tracking the rental market before my move just to make sure I was on top of things. I even emailed Ali and Keith but due to timing and the holidays I ended up taking something I also don't think comes up too often on the market anyway.

Brokers can be skeezy (usually are), but there are several good ones on here and if you're honest and know what you want, you'll have an easier time dealing with them. Negotiate the fee down - 15% is ridiculous in my opinion, even more so if I did all the work in finding a place on my own and all they do is a viewing and a lease signing. If you are going to have them go all over the city with you and put a lot of time in, it's only fair that you pay them - they're not doing charity work.

make sure that the broker you are working with, or the broker who has the listing gives you the Agency Disclosure Form to make clear who he's representing: you, the Landlord or both..

I understand what you're saying Ali but my approach with rental biz has been a little different, perhaps though not the best way to be looking out for my own interests. I looked at it more as an open market competition, if I show the best property (the one they rent) I win and subsequently get paid. I'm pretty good (: and tend to focus on a particular market segment hence my % of successful deals far out weighed the times I was "skunked". I also usually have at least a "foot in the door" with someone so I can get my clients into something first, may not be an exclusive but generally appreciated. When I freed myself from the "firm" having the ability to adjust my fees without taking less personal compensation also was good for all parties involved.

I also get referrals that are less concerned with paying a commission, more concerned with knowledgeable, efficient service....they want to be catered to. These clients I will work with all over NYC, happily.

Happy New Year everyone! We're doing some skiing, getting ready to leave, hope this answer doesn't sound as convoluted as I think it may....

Highend -- agency disclosure forms don't go into effect till Saturday. Sandy Mattingly did a great blog post on them though.

Keith, I personally find most renters -- even referrals -- have no loyalty whatsoever, so they tend to mosquito-bite for information and then not pay. I'm not talking about asking a couple of questions; I'm talking about getting extensively educated on the way NY works, and then dumping their teacher/previewer/agent who ran around with them to multiple listings.

I've found that even relos whose firms are going to pay the agency fee will do this.

If you can make money playing that game, bless you, but I find it tough, and I'm blessed to have enough "good" customers who want to pay me for my knowledge that I try to sidestep it.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

So, after weeks of sifting through online listings on Streeteasy and NYT, I viewed 9 apartments this week ranging in asking price from $5500 to $15000. After viewing 4 units on Day 1, I was dismayed because two of the online ads had boasted of "eat-in kitchen," and there did not appear to be any space anywhere in either apartment to eat, let alone in either apartment's kitchen (and these were two of the higher end listings). After viewing 3 more units On Day 2, I realized that Day 1 feelings were misplaced because agent after agent smiled with genuine pleasure as they took me into their listing's kitchen and pointed out that it was "eat-in." After viewing 2 more units on Day 3, I narrowed list down to 3 that were very close to what I was looking for. I negotiated with each and ultimately settled on a 2bed/2bath for $10,750 per month with an 8% commission and option for a second year. I will have to park in a garage nearby, but feel this is a small compromise. I was surprised by how much everyone was willing to negotiate (winning listing was originally listed at $13000). I may well have left money on the table (I say this because when I called to tall runners up that I had ultimately chosen another listing, agents started bidding against themselves). However, I feel that the rent I have accepted is fair given that I was able to find out through ACRIS that the unit I am renting was purchased by its current owner for $3,250,000, and I was able to see from a current comparable sales listing in the building that taxes and monthly fees are about $1800/month. (That sales listing as well as others in nearby buildings also suggested to me that while the condo I am renting does not appear to have appreciated to any extent, at least it does not appear to be worth less than when owner purchased it). My philosophy is that I want owner to appreciate my tenancy rather than resent it. So, there you have it. Thanks to all for their input (even that mean hones guy). While I am delighted with my choice, I am curious to see how I will feel about it a year from now.

I like the WBFP in the BR. Nice job.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty