Renovations

even the cheapest reno, assuming you can save the hardwood floors, would be north of $100K. a good one, well over $200K.

Thanks,

That is what I was thinking, bare bones, 125K.

i would definitely have it inspected by a good inspector as there could be another $50K hidden anywhere and everywhere in that place. could be a great place once the reno is done. it's just somewhat pricey for something in that condition.

Well over 200k? how about 500K at least.

100-150 sq ft for low end
150-250 medium
250-1000 hi end

That place needs a lot of work, it looks like it needs to be gutted, outside landscaping new bathrooms, kitchens.

Listen to primer, you dudes have no idea. In fact, I would argue that a 100k reno would be a complete waste of time and money. You'd be better off taking your 100k to Atlantic city and putting it all on red 23 instead.

Or foxwoods instead, Jersey has too many double zeros

How about put in some elbow grease (depends on how loose this 3? unit townhouse co-op is) for close to nothing and see where that gets you? I assume the heat & water are working. Clean and paint and patch yourself, get the floors sanded & refinished, move in. That's what you should do if money is tight.

I have always been up for offering an educated guess on questions like this. Not here. For two reasons: (1) this is beyond "estate condition," insofar as it appears beyond unlivable--it looks derelict; (2) there are other units in this place and my guess is that the entire building is not in good shape. So beyond buying a money pit of an apartment, you would be signing on for a brownstone with potentially major structural problems and basic systems in gross need of repair.

No such thing as a $100K fix up here. I'd run unless it were practically given to you. And even then I'd want to know a lot more about who else is in the building and what state the structure is in.

The folks on brownstoner.com understand this kind of DIY-ish thing well. May want to post this question on the forum, they could probably advise you on whether this is a good deal. My sense that it's a 19-footish lower duplex (garden + parlor) in mid-center N. Park Slope is that it's not a bad deal at all. You don't have to go full out and do the gut reno right away, as long as you have heat and hot water. Clean up, move in, and see if there's a possibility of co-ordinating the local trades to do a piecemeal reno if that's what your budget allows.

A DIY? I guess if you are general contractor by day and want to work all night.NYC elbow grease? Really?

I am all for DIY if you want to paint or even glue down a prefiished floor, although I wouldnt advise it, but to take on something like that, I dont think so.

I could bring in my architect, plumber, electrician, HVAC guy, millshop, carpenters, painters and so forth, work there 9-5 everyday and get done in about 6 months, maybe

How long would it take if a person was going to do it in his spare time?

Hehe. I have the perfect blog for you. http://www.brownstoner.com/bedstuy_reno/

That is a very good blog. Looks like it took them almost two years and it seems, I could be wrong that G didn't work. I think it is great that they could do it themselves but not too many people want to do that. I know i wouldn't.

No, they both worked. Anything is possible. If you expect to do absolutely nothing and pay a check, your figures are correct. I looked at the archived listings in the building and the other apts don't look that bad. Of course, you do need to do due diligence on a small TH co-op like this. But many people live in them across the city, and it's not all bad.

Primer, this is not manhattan, so you have to come down on your prices. You're not paying $30 per day for parking, $5M insurance is most likely not needed either. The work is on ground and parlor level, so you don't have to waste days on just bringing the materials up. All of this adds up quickly.

For a cheap reno, the 1/2 bath can be done for $3K and full for $7K for the full. Don't tile the walls, use water proof sheetrock. This alone will cut down on labor and material costs. Refinishing the floors will be $5K. Cheap kitchen $15K.

I did a reno of a 3 Br/2 Full in Brooklyn for $50K. It did not need so much work, but there was plenty of work to be done. In the bathrooms, I left the wall tile, but replaced the rest with good quality (Toto, Kohler) fixtures. The spackling/painting I did myself. I also ran the wires for surround sound in the walls by myself as well.

There are places in Brooklyn that have nice porcelain tile for under $2 psf. I've seen the same tile in Manhattan going for $5-7. Glass tile for around $10 that is sold for $25-35. Bought my solid wood doors for $60 per, not $200 as I saw in Manhattan. That's just the beginning.

Ab,

Of course anything can be done cheaper. You can renovate for 100sq ft or even less.

Some things cost more in manhattan but not all. I have never heard of a solid door costing $60.00 please share. I buy my doors in NJ and they cost at least 200 but that is for 8' high doors

I am very good friends with the owners of Nemo tile and I cant even get tiles for $2.00.

I am not sure what quality we are talking about.

This may be a question for Primer, but anyone who has a thought....

When you say $xxx-$yyy psf for a renovation, what is the footage assumption? The entire apartment size (therefore does this effectively assume a gut renovation) or the area being renovated? If I own a 950 sq ft 1 BR/1.5 BA jr 4, look to acquire a 650 sq ft Studio 0 BR, 1 BA and am thinking about combining them into a single 3BR either 2.5 or 3.5 BA apartment, should I be using 1600 sq ft times those numbers? Or if I am not planning on touching at least 1/3 of the original apartment, am I looking at 1000 times those figures?

I would advise the poster or whoever buys NOT to buy new doors. Few things can beat old-growth oak doors. Strip it yourself if you have to - peel away 7.

ab, inferences have been made by the nature of the original post. You, me, Primer and 23 may be able to pull it off in spectacular fashion, but anyone remotely capable of such a feat would know better than to post such an unanswerable question.

...and show me a slash and dash crew that can take the original stock of a 100 year old door and properly fit it to a new hand-made matching -or rehab'd jamb.

Judging from the pictures, the weird little sunroom is in seriously bad shape. I smell flooding (snow, rain) there, especially since there is no floor. Be suspicious of the rooms with fresh paint, when so many rooms are without paint. What are they covering up?

If you're going to worry about anything, worry about the electrical, not just in the unit, but in the whole building.

In Manhattan I was quoted $20K just to install cabinets. I say this is a $250K job, easy. I love DIY, and I'd walk away on this one. Or offer $650K.

So, somebody tell me where can I get these $60 DOORS? I have hollow cores that need to go.

Dikes lumber will deliver primed prehung solid core doors. They are not solid wood, and therefore stable, heavy, relatively inexpensive, and take paint well.

http://www.homesurplus.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=homesurplus&Category_Code=interiordoors

they typically have most sizes in stock.

@ab_11218 AWESOME! Thanks for the link, I'll definitely check them out!

I was so excited about the solid doors for $60.00 until I found out that they are for doors that are only 1 3/8" thick. Maybe I would use them on a closet but that's about it. They also only have a 2 panel and 6 panel pine.

For doors that are 1 3/4" which is what every architect and designer choose those are $300.00.

I already get those cheaper. If you want doors that are 1 3/8" thick then it's great.

I just measured, my exterior doors are 1 3/4" but all my interiors are 1 3/8". I'm not a real pro like you, Primer. Just a homeowner on a shoe string, so close enough for me.

I can get aluminum siding on my house for the cost of installation if I agree to let them use my house for advertising.

Buy here at dealer direct, avoid the middleman, and receive free access to the most unsellable lines manufacturers have to offer.

Listen you neophytes... there is no free ride. Shit costs money, desirable shit costs more. If I'm not doing the work myself I multiply material cost by a factor of 3 to arrive at an install budget -in the city I'm sure that factor is greater. So if material costs are only accounting for 1/3 of the overall cost at best, and possibly 1/5 at worst, it would seem to me you ought to focus on the 2/3 or 4/5 that really matter, rather than skirting the bounds of inferiority when it comes to the material you use.

and by the way 1 3/8 is totally fine for an interior door. Just remember the link quotes slabs, not prehung. Select a hardwood door, prehung, with boring for hardware, plus shipping, and guess what happens to your 60$. Who installs pine doors in Manhattan anyway? If you're painting the doors, what do you suppose prep, primer, and two or three coats of paint will cost?

I have 1 3/4" doors everywhere solid poplar doors everywhere from www.interiordoors.net - this is before I realized the value of stripping old oak doors (which btw, would have cost a lot even with me dealing with the stripping).

I'm sure you've already been bashed over the head with this - but buying in "bulk", the best I could get was solid poplar doors for $450 (prehung, 1 3/4", 30" wide, 8 feet).

Spinnaker,

Well said

If anyone wants 1 3/4" doors I recommend Manhattan Door Company 718-963-1111

For a standard door flush door (masonite, solid core) $75.00
For a 6 panel door (masonite, solid core) $140.00

They come primed and ready to paint

I'd say $250K for nothing terribly fancy -- $50K for your electrician, plus $150K for your close-to-bare-bones reno, plus $50K to fix whatever that problem is with the back wall that @needsadvice has noted in the sunroom.

Plus, as KW has noted, there is probably more coming with this building, and that's in a six-figure way.

I think it's a lot for a first-timer to bite off. Still, it's a sweet little place.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Let me point out the OP said basic renovation. A basic renovation can mean a lot of different things but it is more then $100.00 sq. ft.

What IS the square footage on this thing? I'm not seeing it in the listing . . .

It has to be at least 2,000 sq ft.

20-footer, built at least 50' deep X 2 - approx. 2000 sqft. Of course, subtract stairwell & entrance area.

@nyc10023: Don't be so quick to subtract the stairwell, LOL. I ran into a developer that counted the "air" above the stairs as part of the second floor square footage. They thought I wouldn't catch it. Seriously.

This feels like a money pit to me. Are you wedded to the North Slope?

It seems the ambitious Raphael has long since bailed on his thread. Another soul saved.

What is the average price per sq ft for North Slope?

This might be a deal with 2,000 sq ft, even with the reno included.

But then again, it's a 4 unit coop, so a small building with probably no management to speak of. Is there a reserve fund? For the electrical that looks scary even from here? How's trhe roof?

This would be the highest price ever for a unit in this building, but past sales were a while back:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/128-park-place-brooklyn

I would offer $700K and give it a shot, if I was really into that neighborhood and into renovation. Pending inspection, of course.