Dakota Hits Back at a Resident Who Claimed Bias

do you have a granddaughter?

because you did in the beginning.

Just ignore Lucille like I do and the posts are
fine. Try it it really works. She's and I'm assuming its a she
is out of her mind from other posts so ignore was the beat route!!!

Well, discussing family doesn't benefit me or my family.

there you are again..who are you? when did we ever speak?

>so ignore was the beat route!!!

Wow, a lot of enthusiasm!!!!

Not sure what either huntersburg or Lucille wrote but I'm sure it's not usefull or in anyway productive to the OP.

They are both just spewing troll crap, so I totally agree.

I want to be very clear about something: Fletcher's ability to reduce his yearly taxable income as a small business owner is not illegal at all, and it's laughable to say that efforts to reduce a tax bill are irrational because they distract attention from running a business or running money. When you own your own business, your financial affairs are intimately entwined with those of your business. You can quite legally choose to reinvest earnings rather than take payouts. You can quite legally deduct business expenses. Fletcher may also have significant investments outside his firm; these may be low-income-yielding, which is another quite legal tax-deferral strategy.

Now, I really have no way of knowing how al of this plays out for Fletcher or his firm. I don't know how many employees he has, or how well-paid they are. I don't know how much he rents his office space for. Most important, I don't know what fees he charges. It's entirely possible that $600k is really the most he can squeeze out as income in any given year. It's entirely possible that his finances are a house of cards, that he had no business thinking he could afford another apartment and an expensive renovation, and that, whether or not the board is composed of a bunch of racists, they had ample reason to reject his application.

Then again, it's also entirely possible that his finances are perfectly fine and more than adequate for this purchase, and that the board has a pattern of treating applicants differently on the basis of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or any other characteristic that puts them on the wrong side of the law. Neither side, it seems to me, has presented an overwhelmingly compelling brief. He may have a tough time proving his case.

But it's amazing how much ire seems to be directed at any successful person of African descent. White folks seem to jump at any chance to prove that he really isn't that rich, that he really isn't that smart, that he really doesn't belong in the Dakota. And then we get the "I'm so sick of all the black people who..." or even better "I have plenty of black friends but...." I'm particularly surprised to see someone like Kyle repeatedly write that this isn't a real issue because the people involved are rich and privileged. If it is true that Fletcher has been denied the right to purchase an apartment because of his race, do you really not consider that a serious, actionable issue? I have acquaintances who are members of a country club in East Hampton with a history of excluding Jewish people. That doesn't bother you, because the individuals suffering discrimination are rich?

My wife and I used to live in a coop on Riverside Drive in the 70s. One of the residents is a world-renowned musician who happens to be black. He plays a large instrument with which he has to travel. Some WASPy guy from JPMorgan moved into the building, and one day these two men both arrived at the same time and rode up in the elevator together--they had not previously met. The JPMorgan guy turns to the musician and says "the next time you have to make a delivery in this building use the service elevator."

We had a nanny for several years who happened to be white; she got married and moved away, and the new nanny happened to be black. When the first nanny would drop pick my daughter up from visits with her grandmother, who lives in one of the "top" buildings on Park Avenue, the doormen would send her up with in the main elevator. When the second nanny started working for us, she went there for the first time to pick up our daughter, and the doorman sent her to the service elevator. Fortunately she got her revenge. When it was time for her to leave, she insisted on taking our daughter down in the service elevator. The doorman explained that when she was with our daughter she could ride in the front elevator, and she replied "If I have to go in the back door, I'm going out the back door." Suffice it to say, the next time she rode up alone in the front elevator.

My uncle adopted several kids, one of whom is black. She sends her kids to a private school on the Upper West Side. When she goes to the school to pick up her kids, or takes them to a playground in Central Park, she is constantly asked which children she "takes care of" by people who assume she is a nanny, not a mother.

I don't know anything about Buddy's case, but I can tell you that racism is is still rampant in Manhattan. Particularly in the world of coops.

Happyrenter -- Thanks for the really good and thoughtful post and for bringing the discussion back to reality. There appears to be some motion in the case (possibly for an injunction) that may be heard next week so I am sure we'll hear more.

happyrenter,
i find it amazing that you would actually write out a paragraph short of a 5 paragraph essay in a hypothetical defense of the man's finances, instead of reading his complaint and discussing the facts as he has presented them. read it, and defend each example of "racism" on its lack of merit. really, you don't have to hallucinate the man's accounting practices. the issue is racism, and the facts he believes support his case are in his complaint. very simple. if only everything in life could be this simple. no more out of you unless it's relevant and rooted in reality!!

villageowner, really, what is there to say? i will say this, as pretty white woman who made the horrific decision to breed during her natural child bearing years, and as a result became a good decade younger than the next youngest white mother on the island of manhattan, i can't tell you how many times i've been treated like an au pair. think i have a case?

LucilleIsADisgustingPig

I'm an old, old friend of Buddy's (we were college classmates). Whether he will prevail in court remains to be seen, but I don't think this suit was a step he took lightly.

One of the issues that seems to be getting lost here is that of reprisal, i.e., part of the reason he believes he was denied the apartment is as retaliation for some of the things that he said and did while he served on the board.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

One of the issues that seems to be getting lost here is that of reprisal, i.e., part of the reason he believes he was denied the apartment is as retaliation for some of the things that he said and did while he served on the board.

front porch, with all due respect, i can't imagine your old college friend would want you to write in a public forum.

why? with no due respect.

" Thanks for the really good and thoughtful post and for bringing the discussion back to reality."

is that what that is?

fp^^^to write THAT in a public forum

"why? with no due respect."

????? she is respected accomplished professional. why no respect?

i'm fairly certain you know where the lack of respect is directed

i'm fairly certain you know where the lack of respect is directed

no......was my tone to her disrespectful? what is your problem? you have talked about everthing and the kitches sink, except the actual facts fot the case that are in dispute. the specific, bullet pointed for easy comprehension examples of racism on behalf of the board. there is no other issue. and ar, i have always repsected your opinion and point of view. i don't know what else to say to you.

my spelling errors are an intentional act of civil disobedience against the totalitarian regime that will censor dirty talk, but won't give the people spell check. grey power!

lucille, you have tried the man and found him guilty, without any discovery.

west34 "suspects" his finances are very sketchy. well, then, they must be.

i agree with happyrenter, neither side has convinced me that they have the winning case.

the passions of the young can be so tiresome.

All boards look at the bottome line on the 1040 and that is what is the person't adjusted gross income.
It doesn't matter if he's "really" making more. If it's not shown, for whatever reason: deductions, not reporting it all, it doesn't change things.

Villageowner, I couldn't agree with you more.
West34, he's gay, therefore he cannot be be prejudiced by race? Cute.
Aboutready, please ignore the grey trolling; isn't the point of greying them out to make it easier not to feed them?

again with this! why won't you address one single issue from the actual complain? neither side has convinced you? did you read the complaint? yes or no: do the examples cited in the complaint constitute for you a policy of repetitive intentional racism. YES or NO

did she get tired or did she just get lazy?

Villageowner, I couldn't agree with you more.

with which part? that sometimes some people are assholes? but you can't read this, right?

maly, good point. you would think i'd have learned by now.

which point is good? that you don't have to read and respond to someone who says something you don't like? that is a good point. good for maly.

>Happyrenter -- Thanks for the really good and thoughtful post and for bringing the discussion back to reality. There appears to be some motion in the case (possibly for an injunction) that may be heard next week so I am sure we'll hear more.

MidtownerVirgin, you don't have a single opinion on the matter? You've proven that you can be a top notch paralegal or law clerk, we get that, but no other comments on the case or similar stories one way or the other?

maly, has it occured to you that you are a big fat racist who, literally, cannot see beyond a person's skin color? don't worry about responding, you have made it clear that you don't associate with "greys", it's beneath you, i know my place.

Cmon maly who is being cute here. We're trying the case on a real estate board. I also knew OJ was guilty based on the CNN coverage.

And everyone knows there are no gay racists. Right Matt? ;-)

Yes, but! You still should try to remain within the bounds of common sense (NYCMatt will not help you there.)
I think happyrenter made the best post in that regard.

"You still should try to remain within the bounds of common sense"

which you have done by blindly insisting the black guy is obviously right and the evil white racists are really mean and also can't count. making no reference at all to the man's own complaint.

"I think happyrenter made the best post in that regard."

happyrenter said fletcher may be cheating on his taxes and that some people in this world are, indeed, racist. he also said that anyone here has implied that the man who has lived at the dakota for 20 years and served on the board, including as board president, does not belong at the dakota. then he said something about the bath and tennis out in one of the hamptons and rich jewish people, so clearly fletcher is right and the evil racists are bad and deserve to wear the scarlet R for the rest of their lives. and if that's not the very essence of common sense and logical reasoning, i don't know what is.

are you really this superficial?

betcha fletcha turns out to be a complete piece of shlt

columbiacounty
10 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse are you really this superficial?

?????

betcha fletcha turns out to be a complete piece of shlt

see, on THAT i would withhold judgement. but he should have duked out this petty bitchfight in the stupid boring way it deserves.

"West34, he's gay, therefore he cannot be be prejudiced by race? Cute."

i think what he probably meant is that one's gay mafia allegiance generally trumps their ethnic mafia allegiance.

But somehow remarking that some white woman wants to buy drugs on the street ... that's racist.

who is buying drugs on what street? you can't get anything good on the street, it's all delivery service.

Happyrenter - I'm just guessing here that you're not too familiar with tax, general business or asset management. "It's laughable to say that efforts to reduce a tax bill are irrational because they distract attention from running a business or running money." No, it's reality. I'm not saying you don't deduct legitimate business expenses, but I'm saying you that if you run a profitable asset management business, you will generate alot of income and pay alot of taxes and there's no way around that.

"You can quite legally choose to reinvest earnings rather than take payouts." I think you misunderstand what "earnings" are. That is what you pay taxes on, that is what the Dakota says Fletcher's business didn't have.

The Dakota has implied that they expect SUCESSFUL asset management businesses to produce positive earnings and that their founders take home salaries of more than $600k/year. With the numbers the Dakota produced in their response, he couldn't afford the unit and there is no amount of bs about managing taxes/earnings that will justify those weak numbers.

My money is on the Dakota.

You go Goldie!

Goldie,

I am an asset manager, though I won't call myself a successful one. Successful depends on your perspective. Tax planning and management is basic financial prudence, so the idea that you are sticking with the idea that "efforts to reduce a tax bill are irrational." Maybe you should take a look at the dictionary definition of irrationality.

It's kind of surprising that someone who claims to be an expert on tax planning doesn't have a clue about how taxes actually work There basic difference between business and personal taxes that makes a huge difference for business owners: individuals pay taxes on revenue, with deductions for only certain types of expenses. Businesses pay taxes on net income only: they can deduct essentially all expenses. A business owner can very easily manage his personal income year-to-year by taking a small payout from the business. He can then manage his business income by reinvesting that revenue.

Then, there's the strategy of tax deferral through low or no-income securities. I had an investment in Berkshire Hathaway for twelve years--I bought some b shares with money I saved doing summer and afterschool jobs in high school. Berkshire has never paid out a dividend of any kind. It is a zero income investment, which means I never paid a dime of taxes or had a dime of report income on that investment. I deferred all the individual taxes until I sold, at which point I paid capital gains taxes (by that time reduced to 15%). Warren Buffett was essentially no taxable individual income, since he takes a nominal salary and has no dividends. But I think he could afford an apartment in the Dakota.

The point is this: we have no idea, from the initial briefs, whether Mr. Fletcher's finances would justify the purchase of this apartment. If I had to guess, I think it's likely that he could afford it, but that his finances are not robust enough to satisfy the board. If I am right, he will lose his lawsuit. But if I am right, it also means that $640,000 in yearly income does not represent his true access to cash.

"Warren Buffett was essentially no taxable individual income, since he takes a nominal salary and has no dividends. But I think he could afford an apartment in the Dakota."

and so can fletcher, damn it!

and lol "Successful depends on your perspective." in many aspects of life that is certainly true. unfortunately and perhaps unfairly, there is really only one way to be a successful ASSET MANAGER.
ok, i'm calling you out and moving you to the "fictional character" column in my mental spread sheet of nonesense. you are either absolutely brilliant or completely retarded.

Advantage, happyrenter.

Advantage, happyrenter.

totally. fletcher should have hired happyrenter to represent him. but then, if he had the brains and foresight to do that, he'd be able to afford a place at the dakota.

berkshire b shares are liquid readily marketable securities of the type a coop board would consider as a legit part of one's assets

fletcher's asset management company, having lost money over the last two years, with 1/2 the money under management taht fletcha claims, is anything but an asset a coop board would consider legit--and frankly, a shop like fletcha's, with losses over the prior two years, likely has no value

fletcha's propensity to spew blowhard ego-garbage all over the internet, including re his company, in addition to what we know of the dubiousness of his financial circumstances, speak damn clearly to me of what he is about

then there is the race card--anecdotes re coop racism or not, this guy was president of his board. his mother has been on the board. it's just a non-starter.

the stretch required to see this guy as potentially credible is a focking embarrassment. cant wait for more deets as this evolves.

i still say the real goal here is to be on record as an anti racism warrior for political future reasons. the complete picture includes both the new wife and wild and wildely reported tales of 50 mil donations (legal technicalities aside). and if that turns out to true, mr. f really really overplayed his hand and the ultimate hindrance to his ambitions down the road will be his blindly narcissistic underestimation of the internet. he would have done better as himself.

using the vaguely racist "fletcha" doesn't really strengthen your case.

my example of low- and no- income investments was not an analogy to mr. fletcher's asset management business. it was merely meant to show that, since we don't know what sort of outside investments fletcher and his wife have, we can't accurately determine whether they have the means to purchase the apartment.

and finally, those of you who seem to place so much faith and trust in the Dakota board, but at the same time think Fletcher is so clearly a joke/fraud/bigot/opportunist, must wonder why this brilliant board elected such a man to serve as its president.

Happyrenter -

I'm not sure you really understand that one way or another SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES PAY TAXES. While Warren Buffet might have low personal income, Berkshire Hathaway pays taxes on their earnings, regardless of whether earnings are reinvested. While not paying dividends saves on individual taxes, it doesn't reduce taxes on business earnings. But Mr. Fletcher had neither company earnings nor individual income. It is ridiculous/delusional to claim this could come from successful tax planning.

So, I'll tell you again. Successful managers have positive earnings (i.e., your Berkshire Hathaway example). And you can talk until you're blue in the face about legitimate deductions, but they're going to be insignificant relative to revenues if you're successful.

The Dakota board is implying that their shareholders prefer not to take the risk of someone who relies on a $600k/year salary from a company with zero to negative earnings while fulfilling the requirements of a $50 million pledge and the carrying costs of multiple properties. That seems fairly prudent to me.

using the vaguely racist "fletcha" doesn't really strengthen your case.

YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FEEBLE MIND

my example of low- and no- income investments was not an analogy to mr. fletcher's asset management business. it was merely meant to show that, since we don't know what sort of outside investments fletcher and his wife have, we can't accurately determine whether they have the means to purchase the apartment.

DO YOU MEAN, LIKE, OFF SHORE ASSETS STASHED AWAY SOMEWHERE THEY CANNOT PRESENT TO THE BOARD? OK, YOU CAN HAVE THIS ONE.

and finally, those of you who seem to place so much faith and trust in the Dakota board, but at the same time think Fletcher is so clearly a joke/fraud/bigot/opportunist, must wonder why this brilliant board elected such a man to serve as its president.

OMG

no idea how "fletcha" is "vaguely racist"

my ealier post began "betcha fletcha" -- a mere cutism, nothing racial intended -- if there is some connection in "fletcha" with race, pls clarify--i apologize in advance

because happyrenter himself is actually an idiot racist, he is saying that black people can't pronounce things right, and you are being racist by........well, you get it.

Aboutready may have different information than is publicly available, but according to the fiscal year 2009 form 990PF filed by the Fletcher Foundation with the IRS, it has no endowment. It has $5,800 in assets.

agreed, goldie

and the times article refers to the board's concern that fletcher has inadequate assets and income to comand such a large part of the coops exposure--it mentioned overvaluation of fletchers poorly performing business, both in terms of investment performance as well as assets under management

boards care only about liquid, readily marketable securities cleanly owned by shareholders--boards care about one's business largely to verify that a shareholder will have ongoing appropriate income, and, to a lesser degree, as a saleable asset--well things aint so rosy over at fletcher capital mgmt of recent

boards could give a hoot about locked up, offshore, or certainly weird tax-advantaged structures.

and his "wife's" assets and income are conspicuously not part of the story--she, a partner at kleiner perkins, seems potentially credible; but for some reason is comingling financially with fletcher

woops is NOT commingling.....

betcha that's not the only thing this couple is not commingling. he he

ok looshy, that was funny

OK, last comment on this silly board. Goldie, are you seriously trying to claim that business revenues reinvested in a business--that is, spent on the business rather than paid out to owners--are subject to corporate income tax and that business tax deductions are "insignificant" relative to revenues? Have you ever read an income statement?

Happyrenter - I'm just going to guess that you're not going to understand basic tax or the basics of the asset management business. Earnings are taxed. Asset managers have very little expenses other than employees and systems/admin. Why don't you explain to everyone on this board how an asset manager is going to avoid tax on $50 million in annual income after paying employees and systems/admin?

Yes, tell me about this wonderful reinvestment in the business that is going to avoid taxes, earnings and income.

Amazing, Buddy's personal Wikipedia advertisement page remains untarnished by any mention of this lawsuit.

And even more Amazing, I find myself agreeing with WTushy.

That's with a capitalized A

"I don't know anything about Buddy's case, but I can tell you that racism is is still rampant in Manhattan. Particularly in the world of coops."

I agree there is definitely tons of racism....but I also think some of it is just stupidity...

LucilleIsSorry....

Could I trouble for a complete list of your usernames?
Thanks

falcogold, I think one of the hints is that a user name might start with Lucille.

falcogold1
about 3 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse LucilleIsSorry....

Could I trouble for a complete list of your usernames?
Thanks

absolutely. alex09, lucillebluth, lucillemissse, and lucilleissorry. why?

i always said i like the troll and i do. he and i, we speak the same language, which makes our banter fun. in the past it would have bothered me if someone thought i was actually him, but at this point? his targets have showed their colors, he has proved to be one of the few actually decent, likable people around here. team troll.

but i think the more important question, that you should perhaps ponder in depth, is why you echo your little degenerate friend in suggesting i'm the troll, instead of calling out him out for being a degenerate. or are some of your best friends self hating jews as well? did you perhaps almost marry a jewish guy 50 years ago?

and you scream at a black guy playing the race card?

really?

what the fuck card are you playing, you piece of shit?

sorry, i don't speak to greys. thank the lord for (streeteasy) segregation!

hey lucille.

fuck you.

NOW he's in the mood. not tonight, dear, i have a headache

LucilleOnlySeesRacismWhereItAffectsHer

AndThereSheSeesItEverywhere

LucillePlaysTheJewCard

"sorry, i don't speak to greys." ... so you're so concerned about anti-jewish persons remarks, but you can just go right ahead and post an offensive anti-Arab comment like this and it's all okeh?

i finally figured it out.

LucilleIsTheIllegitimateOffspringOfTruth

of course she doesn't speak to greys. she's too pretty and young to do so. she popped out a couple of spawn while still a veritable babe (so to speak). and with a couple of trust funds to boot! but of course, unlike 10023, she doesn't spend an excessive amount of time here.

some of my best friends are arabs! and i used to get good hash from these moroccan guys when i lived in paris.

LucilleTrys.....andFails!!

aboutready
3 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse lucille, the fletcher foundation was started with a $50 million ENDOWMENT. after he gave the money to harvard. so far it has only dispersed about $600,000 per year, but it is intended to provide grants over many, many years and if the money is invested wisely may fund far more than $50 million worth of projects. somebody doesn't understand how foundations work.

The Fletcher Foundation is a nonprofit foundation that supports civil rights and environmental education. It was created with a $50 million endowment in 2004 by New York financier and philanthropist Alphonse Fletcher, Jr.[1]

kirby
1 day ago
ignore this person
report abuse Aboutready may have different information than is publicly available, but according to the fiscal year 2009 form 990PF filed by the Fletcher Foundation with the IRS, it has no endowment. It has $5,800 in assets.

aboutready
11 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse LucilleOnlySeesRacismWhereItAffectsHer

AndThereSheSeesItEverywhere

columbiacounty
11 minutes ago
ignore this person
report abuse LucillePlaysTheJewCard

i'm not jewish

But is he jewish?

LucilleTrys.....andFails!!

don't worry about it, i don't blame myself. these things happen to men when they reach your age. it's alright, we can just pop open some wine and put in a dave chapelle dvd.

Lucille. whatever your name is.

you are a pig.

good luck

does 10023 want you to speak for her? i really doubt that.

is who jewish? fletcher? no, alphonse fletcher is black. his picture is right there on the times website next to the article.

whatever your name is.

it's whatever you want it to be

LucilleIsPitiful

i finally figured it out.

LucilleIsTheIllegitimateOffspringOfTruth

that's why i fell in love with you, your brilliant mind. your stunning good looks are secondary.

So now blacks can't be jewish persons? Is it an exclusive and restricted religious order?

aboutready
3 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse lucille, the fletcher foundation was started with a $50 million ENDOWMENT. after he gave the money to harvard. so far it has only dispersed about $600,000 per year, but it is intended to provide grants over many, many years and if the money is invested wisely may fund far more than $50 million worth of projects. somebody doesn't understand how foundations work.

The Fletcher Foundation is a nonprofit foundation that supports civil rights and environmental education. It was created with a $50 million endowment in 2004 by New York financier and philanthropist Alphonse Fletcher, Jr.[1]

kirby
1 day ago
ignore this person
report abuse Aboutready may have different information than is publicly available, but according to the fiscal year 2009 form 990PF filed by the Fletcher Foundation with the IRS, it has no endowment. It has $5,800 in assets.

and, you know, everything else

damn, i always forget about the ethiopians and the black hebrews. if only they stood out somehow.

So in your worldview, ethiopians and the black hebrews can't be outstanding?

Or will you allow them to be jewish persons, but only if they celebrate hanakuh the day after everyone else, when it's all over?

no, they can celebrate with everyone else. but they better not expect an airlift, cuz i know that's how they roll.

oh, harsh. lucille decides to bring up something that i only brought up to bait her. keep going girl!

it just doesn't work when you do it, ar. alan is a friend of your, right? maybe he can teach you how to do it better. although, i do think it's one of those things you have to be born with.

I was born with a salvia spoon in my mouth.