Last year I signed a contract to purchase a coop in Astoria. After 6 months of paperwork and waiting I was denied by the board without an interview and even had an appeal which was again denied without an interview. The seller and brokers had no idea why I was denied. I have credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for... [more]
Last year I signed a contract to purchase a coop in Astoria. After 6 months of paperwork and waiting I was denied by the board without an interview and even had an appeal which was again denied without an interview. The seller and brokers had no idea why I was denied. I have credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years if something happened to me. Now there is a sponsor unit available in the same building. Would I be crazy to make an offer on this? Could they still somehow reject me even though it says no board approval required? Would I still have to do the whole board application process again? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Response by NWT
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
The board can't reject you. They've got no control over the sponsor's sales. They can like it or lump it.
There's much to be said for revenge, and you're starting out with all your due diligence done already, but on the other hand you'd be paying something for that no-board-approval, and will be paying the transaction taxes normally paid by the seller.
The closing would be between just you, the sponsor, and your lender. The co-op's managing agent just turns over the stock certificate.
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Response by kevin5
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 95
Member since: May 2009
NWT. Thank you some much for your response. I dont mind that I would be living in a building that previously rejected me. Im just trying to find an affordable place that I can live in for the next 30 years. It might actually be less expensive than the apt I was gonna purchase last year. Do you happen to know if I would still have to complete the whole board package again. I read on one site that you still might have to when it comes to sponsor units. I would hate to have to bother people for recommendations and stuff. Thanks again for your help.
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Response by NWT
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
There's no package at all. The board has no connection with a sponsor sale except to turn over the proprietary lease for the shares. The sponsor says "I've sold apartment x. Issue the certificate."
In fact, if the sponsor has had run-ins with the board, she might be particularly happy to sell to you.
You can just keep the package as a sort of snapshot of your life last year.
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Response by kevin5
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 95
Member since: May 2009
Thanks again NWT. I really appreciate the advice. NWT Im not doubting you but how sure of this are you? If this is a fact I would like to make an offer tomorrow before someone else jumps on it. Thanks again.
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Response by NWT
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
I'm sure, if it's a standard co-op. A sponsor, when forming the co-op to begin with, would never give some future board any say in the sponsor's eventual sale of the unsold shares. You should have your lawyer double-check the offering plan, though.
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Response by gaongaon
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 282
Member since: Feb 2009
NWT, a sponsor who retains additional apts in a building may be interested in retaining good relations with the board (for whatever reasons). So while he is not obliged to satisfy the board in any way, he may, in fact, request his own set of financial data equivalent to a board package. In addition, he could then request that the buyer have a "courtesy meeting" with the board. This could all happen even with an all cash sale.
So I beg to differ with your response to kevin5.
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Response by columbiacounty
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
you have obviously never dealt with a sponsor. they want to sell their apartments. and get out.
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Response by sbnycaed
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Feb 2011
Not all sponsor sales are alike. Some say, "No Board Approval" but still make you submit a standard board package to the managing agent who approve you, not the sponsor. And some make you meet with the board to be informed of the rules.
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Response by drdrd
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007
I hope you do live there happily for the next 30 years. If you were rejected by the board but get in the building anyway, what mischief might the board make for you with regards to renovations or a possible future sale, for instance?
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Response by NWT
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
What cc said. Maybe one of our brokers could chime in and cite an instance of a sponsor giving two shits about the board when selling an apartment.
If the sponsor thinks the buyer's finances are so dicey that a sale would be bad for the co-op and therefore bad for sales of the remaining unsold shares, she can just reject the offer. The board doesn't enter into it.
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Response by buster2056
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 866
Member since: Sep 2007
I thought sometimes board packages were necessary for sponsor apartments and were reviewed by the managing agent, but they had no recourse etc. - it was more just a rubber stamp.
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1607
Member since: Sep 2009
kevin5: "...even had an appeal which was again denied without an interview."
Why would you want to live at a place that -really- don't want you there?
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"I thought sometimes board packages were necessary for sponsor apartments and were reviewed by the managing agent, but they had no recourse etc. - it was more just a rubber stamp."
No.
*****
"I was denied by the board without an interview and even had an appeal which was again denied without an interview. The seller and brokers had no idea why I was denied. I have credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years if something happened to me."
Clearly the board saw something in your board package it didn't like, or it wouldn't have rejected you without even an interview.
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1607
Member since: Sep 2009
Current owners who are not as well off as you might see you as a threat because you are more likely to vote for capital projects that will increase maintenance. The rich don't want to live with the poor, but the poor don't necessarily want to live with the rich either.
It could also be because you have a couple of young kids and the owner of the apartment below is a board member.
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"It could also be because you have a couple of young kids and the owner of the apartment below is a board member."
Or it could be they have a couple of OLDER kids in college ... in New York ... and are afraid you're really planning to use the apartment as a dorm room for the kids.
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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
"Clearly the board saw something in your board package it didn't like, or it wouldn't have rejected you without even an interview."
... it's not clear at all. He could have been blackballed because of word-of-mouth badmouthing about him (people know people who know people), or a noxious LinkedIn profile, or he shared his Pandora stations and they were put off by all the Gregorian chants. Those are the possibilities.
Maybe they just don't like accountants. Too noisy.
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"... it's not clear at all. He could have been blackballed because of word-of-mouth badmouthing about him (people know people who know people), or a noxious LinkedIn profile, or he shared his Pandora stations and they were put off by all the Gregorian chants. Those are the possibilities.
Maybe they just don't like accountants. Too noisy."
And so it goes.
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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Sorry, the accountant was on the "rejected 3 days before thread", not this one.
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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
Move close quotation mark.
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Response by ab_11218
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2017
Member since: May 2009
and the typical... the seller pissed off the board so much that they wanted a payback. that was it. go forward with the sponsor purchase as you are planning to live there for long term. by the time you're ready to sell, none of those board members will be there.
most sponsor sales do not require board approval. you should speak to the attorney who did you last deal to see what the sponsor is required to do upon a sale. i know some sponsors that make you fill out the board package so they can collect the fee and never submit it to the board for actual approval.
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Response by broadwayron
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 271
Member since: Sep 2006
Based on the first post, I can't believe he was rejected.
"credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years..."
That part alone should get him into most co-ops, aside from the elitist buildings. I mean, this was in Queens, right? WTF.
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Response by alanhart
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
I have, in all seriousness, heard of coops in Queens that will not allow all-cash purchases, presumably on the theory that the money must be ill-gotten ... I believe that was in Jackson Heights.
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years..."
That part alone should get him into most co-ops, aside from the elitist buildings. I mean, this was in Queens, right? WTF.
*****
We're clearly not being told the whole story here.
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Response by bugelrex
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 499
Member since: Apr 2007
..."We're clearly not being told the whole story here."...
true, to "truly" find out why the co-op borard rejected you, we're going to need
- nationality
- skin color
- religion
- sexual preference
- prior divorces
- profession? (gigolo etc)
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Response by truthskr10
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
Curious, what happens when the seller is on the board, does he/she have to remove themselves from decision process?
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
Legally, no.
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Response by kevin5
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 95
Member since: May 2009
Just want to thank everyone for their advice and comments. After speaking with my lawyer I think I will go ahead with an offer. I would have no problem living in this building even though I have been rejected before. I am the type of person who gets along with everyone. The reason why I am considering this place is because its one of the few places that has coops for under 300k in the area I want to live in. The 2 lawyers, brokers and the seller could not believe I didnt even warrant an interview. It could be my profession. I dont have a high salary. I dont have any kids.
Irish/German American born
36 white
catholic
straight
never married
concierge
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
What's your income?
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
And what is your profession?
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Response by kevin5
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 95
Member since: May 2009
Hey Matt I know you know exactly how much concierges make lol
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Response by Sunday
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1607
Member since: Sep 2009
alanhart is right again!
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Response by ph41
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 3390
Member since: Feb 2008
NYCMatt - he certainly didn't have to answer ANY of the questions posed by bugelrex, but he did (guess you can't read - he's a concierge).
Income? And what's YOUR income NYCMatt? I have a feeling that if someone with your exact credentials (income, etc.) were trying to buy a apartment in your building today, you wouldn't approve the sale. That is so true of many coop board members - they set the bar so much higher for everyone else than it was set for them.
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Response by NYCMatt
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
That's not true at all. If someone was buying an apartment with a purchase prices that was actually lower than his annual income (like mine was) ... based on income alone I certainly would approve.
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Response by rb345
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 1273
Member since: Jun 2009
is the apt off 44th street and Broadway
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Response by MikeBrooklyn
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Apr 2011
Hi Kevin, I know this post is a little old but I just happened to be reading it now. I didn't see any comments from people on co-op boards so here goes... I've been on my co-op board in a really laid back building in Brooklyn for several years. A couple of people were rejected because they didn't have financials like yours. You seem to be in excellent financial shape. There are things, however that many people don't know we look at. The case I'm thinking of involved someone with immaculate credentials who was rejected for a much different reason. He had two different lawsuits pending for slip and fall injuries against 2 of the last 4 places he lived. Obviously a big red flag for any building. We gave him a chance to explain in an interview and he got really defensive, refused to discuss it. So look for things in your background that might seem normal to you but that might look suspicious to a stranger. Also everyone posting here should know that if a building is more than %50 owner occupied, the board can block a sponsor sale but only based on the interview and only with real reasons why the person themselves (not the person on paper) is a bad fit for the building.
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Response by MikeBrooklyn
almost 15 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Apr 2011
Hi Kevin, I know this post is a little old but I just happened to be reading it now. I didn't see any comments from people on co-op boards so here goes... I've been on my co-op board in a really laid back building in Brooklyn for several years. A couple of people were rejected because they didn't have financials like yours. You seem to be in excellent financial shape. There are things, however that many people don't know we look at. The case I'm thinking of involved someone with immaculate credentials who was rejected for a much different reason. He had two different lawsuits pending for slip and fall injuries against 2 of the last 4 places he lived. Obviously a big red flag for any building. We gave him a chance to explain in an interview and he got really defensive, refused to discuss it. So look for things in your background that might seem normal to you but that might look suspicious to a stranger. Also everyone posting here should know that if a building is more than %50 owner occupied, the board can block a sponsor sale but only based on the interview and only with real reasons why the person themselves (not the person on paper) is a bad fit for the building.
The board can't reject you. They've got no control over the sponsor's sales. They can like it or lump it.
There's much to be said for revenge, and you're starting out with all your due diligence done already, but on the other hand you'd be paying something for that no-board-approval, and will be paying the transaction taxes normally paid by the seller.
The closing would be between just you, the sponsor, and your lender. The co-op's managing agent just turns over the stock certificate.
NWT. Thank you some much for your response. I dont mind that I would be living in a building that previously rejected me. Im just trying to find an affordable place that I can live in for the next 30 years. It might actually be less expensive than the apt I was gonna purchase last year. Do you happen to know if I would still have to complete the whole board package again. I read on one site that you still might have to when it comes to sponsor units. I would hate to have to bother people for recommendations and stuff. Thanks again for your help.
There's no package at all. The board has no connection with a sponsor sale except to turn over the proprietary lease for the shares. The sponsor says "I've sold apartment x. Issue the certificate."
In fact, if the sponsor has had run-ins with the board, she might be particularly happy to sell to you.
You can just keep the package as a sort of snapshot of your life last year.
Thanks again NWT. I really appreciate the advice. NWT Im not doubting you but how sure of this are you? If this is a fact I would like to make an offer tomorrow before someone else jumps on it. Thanks again.
I'm sure, if it's a standard co-op. A sponsor, when forming the co-op to begin with, would never give some future board any say in the sponsor's eventual sale of the unsold shares. You should have your lawyer double-check the offering plan, though.
NWT, a sponsor who retains additional apts in a building may be interested in retaining good relations with the board (for whatever reasons). So while he is not obliged to satisfy the board in any way, he may, in fact, request his own set of financial data equivalent to a board package. In addition, he could then request that the buyer have a "courtesy meeting" with the board. This could all happen even with an all cash sale.
So I beg to differ with your response to kevin5.
you have obviously never dealt with a sponsor. they want to sell their apartments. and get out.
Not all sponsor sales are alike. Some say, "No Board Approval" but still make you submit a standard board package to the managing agent who approve you, not the sponsor. And some make you meet with the board to be informed of the rules.
I hope you do live there happily for the next 30 years. If you were rejected by the board but get in the building anyway, what mischief might the board make for you with regards to renovations or a possible future sale, for instance?
What cc said. Maybe one of our brokers could chime in and cite an instance of a sponsor giving two shits about the board when selling an apartment.
If the sponsor thinks the buyer's finances are so dicey that a sale would be bad for the co-op and therefore bad for sales of the remaining unsold shares, she can just reject the offer. The board doesn't enter into it.
I thought sometimes board packages were necessary for sponsor apartments and were reviewed by the managing agent, but they had no recourse etc. - it was more just a rubber stamp.
kevin5: "...even had an appeal which was again denied without an interview."
Why would you want to live at a place that -really- don't want you there?
"I thought sometimes board packages were necessary for sponsor apartments and were reviewed by the managing agent, but they had no recourse etc. - it was more just a rubber stamp."
No.
*****
"I was denied by the board without an interview and even had an appeal which was again denied without an interview. The seller and brokers had no idea why I was denied. I have credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years if something happened to me."
Clearly the board saw something in your board package it didn't like, or it wouldn't have rejected you without even an interview.
Current owners who are not as well off as you might see you as a threat because you are more likely to vote for capital projects that will increase maintenance. The rich don't want to live with the poor, but the poor don't necessarily want to live with the rich either.
It could also be because you have a couple of young kids and the owner of the apartment below is a board member.
"It could also be because you have a couple of young kids and the owner of the apartment below is a board member."
Or it could be they have a couple of OLDER kids in college ... in New York ... and are afraid you're really planning to use the apartment as a dorm room for the kids.
"Clearly the board saw something in your board package it didn't like, or it wouldn't have rejected you without even an interview."
... it's not clear at all. He could have been blackballed because of word-of-mouth badmouthing about him (people know people who know people), or a noxious LinkedIn profile, or he shared his Pandora stations and they were put off by all the Gregorian chants. Those are the possibilities.
Maybe they just don't like accountants. Too noisy.
"... it's not clear at all. He could have been blackballed because of word-of-mouth badmouthing about him (people know people who know people), or a noxious LinkedIn profile, or he shared his Pandora stations and they were put off by all the Gregorian chants. Those are the possibilities.
Maybe they just don't like accountants. Too noisy."
And so it goes.
Sorry, the accountant was on the "rejected 3 days before thread", not this one.
Move close quotation mark.
and the typical... the seller pissed off the board so much that they wanted a payback. that was it. go forward with the sponsor purchase as you are planning to live there for long term. by the time you're ready to sell, none of those board members will be there.
most sponsor sales do not require board approval. you should speak to the attorney who did you last deal to see what the sponsor is required to do upon a sale. i know some sponsors that make you fill out the board package so they can collect the fee and never submit it to the board for actual approval.
Based on the first post, I can't believe he was rejected.
"credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years..."
That part alone should get him into most co-ops, aside from the elitist buildings. I mean, this was in Queens, right? WTF.
I have, in all seriousness, heard of coops in Queens that will not allow all-cash purchases, presumably on the theory that the money must be ill-gotten ... I believe that was in Jackson Heights.
"credit score ranging from 780 to 790, was paying cash, no criminal record, zero debt, college graduate, been at my job for 12 years, and would still have money left to pay maintenance for several years..."
That part alone should get him into most co-ops, aside from the elitist buildings. I mean, this was in Queens, right? WTF.
*****
We're clearly not being told the whole story here.
..."We're clearly not being told the whole story here."...
true, to "truly" find out why the co-op borard rejected you, we're going to need
- nationality
- skin color
- religion
- sexual preference
- prior divorces
- profession? (gigolo etc)
Curious, what happens when the seller is on the board, does he/she have to remove themselves from decision process?
Legally, no.
Just want to thank everyone for their advice and comments. After speaking with my lawyer I think I will go ahead with an offer. I would have no problem living in this building even though I have been rejected before. I am the type of person who gets along with everyone. The reason why I am considering this place is because its one of the few places that has coops for under 300k in the area I want to live in. The 2 lawyers, brokers and the seller could not believe I didnt even warrant an interview. It could be my profession. I dont have a high salary. I dont have any kids.
Irish/German American born
36 white
catholic
straight
never married
concierge
What's your income?
And what is your profession?
Hey Matt I know you know exactly how much concierges make lol
alanhart is right again!
NYCMatt - he certainly didn't have to answer ANY of the questions posed by bugelrex, but he did (guess you can't read - he's a concierge).
Income? And what's YOUR income NYCMatt? I have a feeling that if someone with your exact credentials (income, etc.) were trying to buy a apartment in your building today, you wouldn't approve the sale. That is so true of many coop board members - they set the bar so much higher for everyone else than it was set for them.
That's not true at all. If someone was buying an apartment with a purchase prices that was actually lower than his annual income (like mine was) ... based on income alone I certainly would approve.
is the apt off 44th street and Broadway
Hi Kevin, I know this post is a little old but I just happened to be reading it now. I didn't see any comments from people on co-op boards so here goes... I've been on my co-op board in a really laid back building in Brooklyn for several years. A couple of people were rejected because they didn't have financials like yours. You seem to be in excellent financial shape. There are things, however that many people don't know we look at. The case I'm thinking of involved someone with immaculate credentials who was rejected for a much different reason. He had two different lawsuits pending for slip and fall injuries against 2 of the last 4 places he lived. Obviously a big red flag for any building. We gave him a chance to explain in an interview and he got really defensive, refused to discuss it. So look for things in your background that might seem normal to you but that might look suspicious to a stranger. Also everyone posting here should know that if a building is more than %50 owner occupied, the board can block a sponsor sale but only based on the interview and only with real reasons why the person themselves (not the person on paper) is a bad fit for the building.
Hi Kevin, I know this post is a little old but I just happened to be reading it now. I didn't see any comments from people on co-op boards so here goes... I've been on my co-op board in a really laid back building in Brooklyn for several years. A couple of people were rejected because they didn't have financials like yours. You seem to be in excellent financial shape. There are things, however that many people don't know we look at. The case I'm thinking of involved someone with immaculate credentials who was rejected for a much different reason. He had two different lawsuits pending for slip and fall injuries against 2 of the last 4 places he lived. Obviously a big red flag for any building. We gave him a chance to explain in an interview and he got really defensive, refused to discuss it. So look for things in your background that might seem normal to you but that might look suspicious to a stranger. Also everyone posting here should know that if a building is more than %50 owner occupied, the board can block a sponsor sale but only based on the interview and only with real reasons why the person themselves (not the person on paper) is a bad fit for the building.