Responsibility to Deal with Unruly Neighbors

What are we talking here?

http://cooperator.com/articles/2139/1/Here-Comes-Trouble/

The coop board may address the problem, but is not obligated to unless there is something quite concrete in the by-laws about the specifics of the situation. Similarly, the "house rules" could be consulted and if the person is in violation of a rule, the board may fine the offender if the by-laws permit. If there is nothing in the house rules, they could always be amended and then enforced if permitted by the by-laws. Finally, if enough people feel the board is not responded adequately and using all means reasonably necessary to address the situation, shareholders are within their rights to ban together to change the composition of the board at the next election if this issue is serious enough.

In case you are alone in being affected and bothered by the situation, I suppose you could consult a private attorney and explore whether the actions of the shareholder are compromising any legal right to the quiet enjoyment of your premises.

"Quiet enjoyment" is the goal. According to NWT's article, this would be categorized as "the mundane" type of problem, making it even more difficult. The hair trigger on the unit and stairwell doors (per fire code) is tighter than any I've ever experienced, and when not held closed, creates a "crack" that literally makes the walls shake. The issue is that these neighbors refuse to hold the door - a problem that is exacerbated by an unusually high rate of "coming and going" (which would otherwise be nobody's business) and the frequent use of the stairwell instead of the elevator. It is particularly frustrating because the easy fix is to just be considerate. As mentioned, they have been asked nicely if they could try to avoid letting the doors slam - but they're not having it.

I realize it's just another NY/communal living thing, etc. But it would be nice to spend some time at home without this constant, and totally unnecessary, intrusion.

this seems to be an issue with the door closing mechanism that should be addressed by the super or a repair person. this is NY and everyone is too busy to be nice and not let the door slam.

I had to read the problem description 3 times but maybe I understand. There's a spring-loaded hinge in the offender's entrance door and the public stairwell's door. The offender lets the doors slam a lot. Yes? Well, rather than beg the neighbor to remember not to let go of the doors, can't the building lessen the tension on the hinges or install some rubber bumpers or something so metal doesn't strike metal? The is definitely in the absurd category. I don't see a need to argue about it--just get it fixed.

On the public hallway door you can put a small rubber bumper on the door frame yourself. If all of the apartment doors slam the same, the co-op will probably not intervene other than to ask the person to hold the door. If it is a unique problem specific to one apartment, the super should be able to make the necessary repairs.

I'm always amazed how rude people are when living communally with others. Holding the door, taking off shoes, particularly high heels that click-clack through the apartment, not running washer/dryers, dishwashers after 11PM, etc, are just common courtesy, which doesn't appear to exist in today's society.

Kylewest, I actually spoke to the super about that (lessening the tension) and he said there was nothing that could be done. (He's actually a great guy and always very helpful/resourceful so I accepted his answer. But maybe he just didn't know.) Asked about bumpers but they keep the door from closing tightly shut, so that was not a solution.

I agree this sounds like a stupid, relatively petty problem, but it's not. Maybe I've just not been persistent enough in pushing for a fix on the doors. Thanks all for the poke.

Try those felt pads used for couch and table legs. They are really thin, have an adhesive back and might offer just enough cushion. You can stick them on and pull them off with ease if they don't work.

If it really drives you crazy, offer to pay to get it fixed and hire someone

bob420, have done that, thinking that metal not striking metal would help. Doesn't work. The force of these doors makes such solutions irrelevant. But thanks for the response.

Think I need to do more research re fixing the hinges per kylewest. Did quite a bit of digging a while ago with no positive result, so started focusing on the fixing the neighbor instead of the door. What was I thinking?

Definitely don't use a garbage can! The door is way too heavy, sir.

If a door closes automatically then there is probably either a spring or "door closer". If the door hinge is large and cylindrical, with holes along the top of the cylinder, then that is a spring loaded hinge. The holes allow for a screwdriver to be put in the holes and you can adjust the tension on the spring by turning in one direction or the other.

If there is a door closer mechanism (one of those hinged arm things at the top of the door, one side attached to the wall and one to a box attached to the top of the door) then that too will have a tension setting that will allow you to slow the speed with which the door closes. A balanced door will not close strongly by itself and I strongly suspect all fire-doors require some sort of self-closing mechanism.

Next time you speak to the super, grease him a few bucks. His answer will likely change.

AvUWS: you said it better than I did. I'll be a screw driver is all that is needed by someone who knows what they are doing. either loosen the tension, shift the hinge a scootch to rebalance the door, or both.

Yes, I'm perfectly willing to pay for it; but the "offenders" would need to agree to it. And they are very disagreeable people. And blah, blah, blah. But, assuming this were possible, is this an easy fix, or is there "door hinge tension reduction" expertise required? And if so, know anyone who has this?

If it were driviing me crazy and the super wasn't being helpful or I got the sense he didn't really know what he was doing, I'd be out there with a step ladder at 2am poking at the stairway door hinges myself. And if I figured out how to adjust it, I'd get all nice with the offender whom I hated and get him/her to let me tamper with his/her hinge too. Get creative! Life is short. Already too much time spend aggravated about this.

Sounds like you might need to install a new fireproof door unit: door, door frame & closer. Best bet is a commercial door manufacturer or a contractor. But, will the coop & neighbor give permission?

Although I'm fairly handy, that never occurred to me because I don't know anything about hinges. So learn. Think I will. Thanks.

you sound like a whiner to me

Just catching up with everyone. AvUWS, thanks so much. By your description, they're spring loaded, and now I know what to do. One other question please: when adjusting the screws, anything I need to be careful of so as not to screw up? (Sorry.)

just keep backing off the tension adjustment screw til it completely releases and the entire door-closer-device explodes--wear goggles and a helmet so as not to be injured when the spring takes flight

I usually like your comments. This time, not so much.

The key is the right door tensioner, it should have two adjustments.
One is the speed in which the door closes but then there is also an adjustment for a mini stop, maybe 10 degrees from a complete seal where the the door closes the rest of the way at a real slow speed.

Yes! That's evidently what I had in previous apartments. And it was so much better.

Everyone's been very helpful (except Wbottom.) Having a better understanding as to how these hinges/springs work, it would seem a simple adjustment could solve this stupid problem. Thanks again.

take your cell camera, shoot the hinge to get the make and model number. google the manual...see if that shows you where to adjust.

As a point of reference, the Covenant of Quiet Enjoyment that was being discussed above is irrelevant in these circumstances. It doesn't mean what it sounds like colloquially. It's a covenant against defective title that basically promises the tenant can maintain possession of the property during the term of the lease without the landlord's interference in that possession. It's not a warranty for "peace and quiet."

Even easier advice: Take a picture of the hinge and go to the closest hardware store. If you are in a basic NY neighborhood that is the one with with the luggage and umbrella's outside and the sign that says they make keys. If you are in a chi-chi neighborhood they probably have some expensive bathroom fixtures and blinds in the window. Show them your picture and ask them if they would be so kind as to help. If you want to assure their assistance, ask as you are about to purchase the screwdriver from them and/or don't interrupt them as they are making any actual sales.

I've looked at these hinges on the inside and out. They are so covered with paint, there are no numbers. There are a series of small holes that circle the bottom (or top) of the cylinder "holder", and a screw is inserted in one of them. Is the adjustment made by just taking out the screw, turning the cylinder, and then re-inserting the screw into the next hole in the sequence? Do I need to worry about the door becoming unhinged if I do this? As in, is it necessary to have an extra pair of hands to hold the door? Good idea re the hardware store - I've got one of those.

are you an owner? is door offending person an owner?

Gabolly, I think you should find someone to take a look.

Can you find the manufacturer, serial number, etc. & contact the maker with your problem? I think I'd do that before I start messing with something I don't understand & possibly (mis)use any goodwill I have should I screw the thing up.

the screws vary greatly, some are regular screws, some have an alan key head, but Ive never seen one that has extra holes to change screw position. It is quite possible an adjustment screw is missing from one of the empty holes and that's why the door is closing all the way without that 10 degree away pause.

I now defer to AvUWS' even better advice. Take pictures that cover every hole.
And if your near Flatiron/Chelsea, maybe Home Depot is a worthwhile stop

Romary, yes and yes. Bob420, you're absolutely right and that person really should be the super. I know what his problem is because, as said, he's great and has quietly done a lot of favors for me - and yes, I tip like a MF. The Board in this building is petty and overbearing, and I'm sure that if he tries to do something that involves other (complaining) shareholders, he can get caught in the middle. I am going to speak to him about this again, as I'm now better informed. If that doesn't work, I'll risk tinkering with the stairwell door on my own - just want to make sure I'm not sending that steel door tumbling down 3 flights.

I've actually gotten away from my original question which is what responsibility does the Board or Managing Agent have re this matter. Agree with the change in focus on this specific issue, but wonder in general about managing resident conflicts. Thanks kylewest for your earlier thoughts.

Famous last words -- the door should not come unhinged. With the system that you have, the tension is adjusted by loosening or tightening the ring on the top/bottom of the cylinder. If you have a small allen key or screwdriver,
1) insert the allen key or screwdriver and rotate to the right to allow you pull the holding pin.
2) slowly release the tension in the ring. If you get to the point where your screwdriver can not rotate farther, but you still need to release tension, simply place the pin back in and then adjust your screwdriver position.
3) Once you think you have relieved enough tension, put the pin back in place.

I would take the advise from AvUWS and take a picture to the local hardware store. If you have an upper and lower set of tension rings, they can probably tell you which ring to adjust to achieve your desired goal. If you only have one ring, then it should be fairly straightforward. And as others have warned, this adjustment is not rocket science, but things can go wrong. If the hinge is old and there are fragile or broken pieces in the mechanism it might break on your watch.

If you have a similar mechanism on your own apt door, it might be good to try this there first.

I doubt there are things that can go wrong besides perhaps chipping some paint if the whole thing has been painted over a few times. That same paint might impede any progress until the two parts separate (the adjustment part on the top from the main cylinder body).

You won't break it, and it won't come apart. chances are there are multiple full turns worth of adjustment in it. you might have to make a few quarter turns one way or the other just to determine which way tightens and loosens the tension. Tighter = faster closing, looser equals slower closing.

I doubt anything major could happen and your biggest problem might come if you loosen it to an extent it does not fully close.

(This is the post that garners me the most respect for my talents?? Clearly I wasted tiem wiht an Ivy MBA.)

Also, look here:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?keyword=door+closers&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Worst comes to worse, give the super a $100 or two to install one of the medium or heavy duty door closers and problem solved. Plus he will love you.

tiem wiht - ugh. And in a sentence touting my education no less.

I blame my eagerness to help someone. Anyone who doesn't believe that can go jump.

AvUWS, I completely assumed it was done intentionally to underscore the point about the lack of ROI!

AvUWS, I completely assumed it was done intentionally to underscore the point about the lack of ROI!

Just soundproof your own front door and minimize confrontational interaction with the neighbors, management company, board, super.

Just assumed you were speaking Latin. You know what, most MBAs know bupkis about this stuff. All that I've ever known anyway. So, I appreciate your help AND the fact that you're otherwise super accomplished. The ROI will come - promise.