So we have a contractor...

So, lucille, supporting the husband is good or bad?

none of my business

I guess you are right. Would have been better if the details about the husband, the "nerd" daughter and the familial discord, etc. weren't even bandied about on streeteasy in the first place.

lucille, really? who? who are these engaged and engaging handles that are adding value?

lucille, is aboutready adding value?

It didn't take aboutready very long to come on here to bully up a fight.
She's talking about a comment that I had no idea that she posted, I was off that thread by then.
Things to do, way more interesting than reading about ar's "vacation" plans.
Villas,islands, who cares where she goes on her "vacations".

ph41: I'm not doing a gut reno of my entire apartment. For what I need, I'm O.K. with Primer.
You and lucille are in good form taking on cc., whatever it is that he's commenting about on SE.LOL!

truth: I was telling them both about what an upstanding citizen you are.

actually, truth, lucille asked me to share where i was going. details, details, details, the devil is in the details.

i, on the other hand, am absolutely fascinated by your fanatic ravings. keep it up!

Primer: I'm going to make out my checks for "X" dollars in the amount box.
Then I'm going to write the amount as "X" dollars.
Maybe the bank will think the amount is written in Roman numerals.

and -- here she is, within a minute -- ar!
MY fanatic ravings. LOL at a at a Yale grad who doesn't work (although she claims to have legal skills superior to her husband's and the other lawyers in his firm), lives in Manhattan, has the day free after her hubby and kid leave the apartment for the day -- and she's busy on se ,posting her rants.

Nothing wrong with being a housewife.

Being a frustrated housewife: not fascinating. Not interesting.

And her "career in journalism" seems to have not worked out for her.

and here she is, "truth"
nothing but sunshine and light.
no alkie comment, no oink oink or other such cleverness?
have a great evening, truth

per AR "how clever is it to keep track of what everyone you don't like has ever said and pull it up over and over again where it's not relevant (i.e., definition of a troll)?"

Or, attack anyone, and everyone, who has ever had the temerity to disagree with you on SE.

Per AR "ph41, don't you have some VERY BIG plants on your terrace to water?" And too many other comments about me to bother mentioning here)). What exactly did that have to do with this thread? Along with your calling me stupid, also on this thread?

Yes, I did, unfortunately, way in the past, post some details about my apartment,(which I certainly regret) but YOU are the one who keeps bringing things up in some ridiculous attempt to smear me. I sure as hell don't feel the need to tell post my travel plans on an anonymous internet real estate website, as you seem to need to do for affirmation and validation.

Aside from the fact that you must be totally self-absorbed to not even realize that, since it's been raining for 7 days straight, nobody with a garden, terrace, open air balcony etc. has even had to THINK about watering plants, it does seem that the moment you decided to end your self-imposed SE moratorium, the level of invective on this site due in large part to your long-standing grudges) has gone way up.

It's sad.

yawn

hey, you brought me into this conversation, ph41. you
might want to review your interchange with cc.

hypocrisy is ugly

ph41: That sums it up re: aboutready.

I hope she has a nice vacation(s), wherever she goes.
Arrive alive, no lost luggage. Take photos, or not.

aboutready makes all of her friends here on se, and imagines (and has commented) that I am her enemy.

I don't consider ar to be my enemy, nor am I her enemy.
This is a RE website. I live in the real non-cyber-space world.
My own personal experience with ar, to the extent that I had it; caused me to not want to be her friend, associate on se -- nor anything else to do with her. And that's my personal choice.

I don't start any ill-will to-and-fros with her.
But she and her friends are on here within minutes of comments that I post on threads; with no other objective than to be abusive, insulting and disrupt otherwise civil discussions.

And they are happy if they think they have forced me to get "angry".

I like to look at others' vacation photos. Where/what do you have?

I'm sure you have a very nice apartment -- penthouse or not; and that you take good care of your plants.

truth: was this you who commented recently

Truth
2 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse

Who cares about aboutready and her drunken comments? She's a piece of garbage alkie, frustrated housewife. Not being "approved" by that pig is the best thing that could happen to anyone, anywhere.

Mutombonyc: That pig would drink cough syrup, if she ran out of booze.

perhaps an alternate truth?

ph41: Now for part two:

I can't find anybody who has a bad thing to say about Primer,as a contractor nor as a person.
He is well repected by all that have worked with him and those who know him.

So, please; I know you mean well -- if you have any negative info that can be verified about Primer -- let me know.

Oink, alkie pig. right. I make one small comment about you and Keith discusing moving cos and you go apeshit crazy.

Right, "truth", and yes, for fun, I'm on your words like stink on shit tonight. the kid and the hubby went to the costello concert and I've spent the entire day reviewing new t&e docs so I've had both the time and inclination here.

typo: respected.
I'm typing this on an I-Pad.

here's the truth about the penthouse lady:

ph41
about 23 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse

Primer - I'm talking about a larger project - not just one bathroom; full renovation, or total buildout of a facility, reconstruction of a building, or a new building. Come on - when Built Studios does a showroom, and asks for bids, they get fairly specific I would think.

I've been involved with commercial real estate office buildouts, historic reconstruction in Tribeca (before it was TRIBECA) as well as my own home, and seeing "hubby's" business projects.

you must be joking? I make all of my friends here? Although it is a great group of people, and far more than you could imagine.

But Keith and Eric aren't my friends, it's true.

Well, cc, do you think she gets it? No, not at all. Westelle has zero self awareness.

What happened? Wasn't this about how much to pay for a renovation?

What happened was that aboutready came onto a thread and did her usual : not "one small comment about (me) and Keith". It's an ongoing thing with her, coming onto threads that are moving along without any reference to ar, and there she is, with her abusive comments. She's been doing that, for years (five,or so; since she first appeared on se.) I've only been on here since Jan.2010.

Directed at me, and showing her envy and anger that I have work that I do well.
It's entertainment/music industry P.R., so of course I know and work with well-known musicians.
First she tries to cast aspersions on me : such as that I'm a liar. I'm not a publicist. I don't really know those people...they are not my friends...(although I have known many of them for decades).
She tried it, with pathetic results; with Levon Helm.
As if I need to come on se to try to impress people.

It's her thing to try to marginalize those who disagree with her on se.
and to try to insult/bully people off of se.
But I'm still here. She's still trying to manipulate others into believing that she's not at fault.

As for the alkie thing: she has admitted (in her "Farewell" discussion) , that she overshares, especially when she's had a few drinks.
Don't drink and post on se, then.

Give up on all that, aboutready. It's not working for you. Get over it. The truth and proof is here on se.
Have a nice vacation(s), and don't go looking for a fight.

how risible.

How's Keith?

Truth -- Second question: does Keith know that you are passing along his endorsement of a moving company in a public forum? Just wondering.

" . . . some contractors do not have the time to sit down and price out every aspect of the project." Only those who care to provide an accurate estimate.

"I can't find anybody who has a bad thing to say about Primer,as a contractor nor as a person.
He is well repected by all that have worked with him and those who know him." Seriously?

Is it possible that Truth and Primer are the same person?

Gabolly,

I promise you I am not Truth. However in speaking with truth it just so happens we do know some of the same people that have nothing to do with Street Easy and maybe thats why she is defending me, which I do not feel I need.

Gabolly, what are your experience with bids for residential projects. I do believe that they need to be very detailed as far as the scope of work, I do not believe every line item needs to be priced out.

What do you mean by seriously? I welcome anyone on this site to spend a day with me and go to all my projects to see what I do. There are many people on here that act as if I am a troll and I would love for anyone to come look at my work and talk with my clients.

We can go to 15 Broad (David Starck building), finishing that one tomorrow. Manhattan House, finishing this week, 6,000 sq ft house in sands point, taking over for the contractor that is being fired , We could go to 101 West 81st if thats easier, We can go to east 22nd but we just started that today. Anyone who thinks my intentions are anything but good is welcome, anyone?

Could someone please explain to me all the hostility on this site? It seems people are at war with each other, isnt there something better you can do? There are several people that like to take there shots at me, I wonder are you a contractor and are annoyed that I am also on this site?

Gabolly: Seriously.

Not possible that Primer and I are the same person.
Unlike aboutready and MidtownerEast. Who just can't give up because she's a frustrated housewife.

Keith's fine. He has no problem with The Padded Wagon and I also had a great move with them. The Padded Wagon has no problem with my reco.
Just another meaningless comment from ab/MidtownerEast.

And Primer has no problem with me giving Teresa and Larry Campbell a reco for his contracting services.
They are famous musicians too. Not as famous as Keith, or ar/MidtownerEast would be asking : "How's Teresa and Larry Campbell?" Endlessly and enviously.

yawn.

primer, honestly, most people seem to appreciate your presence here. you even got the kylewest good housekeeping award. anyone selling anything, even needed services, will have at least some difficulties here, and you've been received fairly warmly by our not-so-merry crowd.

ar is frustrated and bored. Within a minute of my comment.

it took you, on the other hand, two minutes to respond to me. slacker.

Primer05, no worries. The odds are that any thread will turn out this way.

Correct that you don't need any defending. There're your and your clients' names and addresses right on your site, so you're easily checkable.

Today's nutso conspiracy theory aside, do you all mean the same thing by "line item"? I'd think that if the job is spec'd out at the level of no-surprises detail kylewest recommends, then there'd be no need for me as a customer to know which nickel went where.

Because I don't spend my days and nights posting comments on se my typing skills are not up to par with ar.

It's 4pm on a Monday. I've written 5 press-releases, planned a tour interview schedule, arranged an afterparty for an upcoming concert, taken 7 calls from European T.V. networks in reference to a documentary that I'm working on, taken 6 calls from San Francisco in reference to a charity benefit concert there. This is my mid-day break for a look on se.

Yep, I'm a slacker!

you should organize your work better, you shouldn't need to make so many calls, waste of time.

Pay attention, ar. I wrote that I took the calls, not made them.
As a world-traveler you must be aware of the time differences.

what does time difference have to do with anything?

OK, then, i'll confess i don't focus too intently on your ramblings, hence the error, but perhaps if you were better organized they wouldn't need to call you so often. always good to anticipate a client's needs.

NWT: yes, it depends on what line item means.

I've had non-break out quotes, and line item quotes.

Example 1:

Contractor gave me a quote to demolish & gut bathroom to studs, rebuild with cement board, install store-bought vanity, bathtub, faucet, tiled walls & medicine cab & new light fixtures. No changes in fixture location, "standard" postwar apt bathroom. New doorframe, new door. Close your eyes, KW. No drawings.

No extras for pulling plumbing permit, paperwork as it was part of a bigger job.

The things that changed the final price were:
1) I tiled a greater area than was originally tiled in the bath, with "more" complicated tiles
2) Some studs were replaced
3) Extra electrical sockets & light switches
4) Insulation was not part of the original quote, I had some put in.

Was a line-by-line quotation required? I don't think so. But, had detailed drawings been part of the request for quote - as in build to this "drawings", items #1, #3 would have been addressed.

On the other hand, the time & money spent on drawings were about the same as the up-charge.

Example 2:
I had detailed architectural drawings done (changes to fixture location & type) and the quote was not "line-by-line" but build to the drawings.

I still incurred some up-charges because:
1) There was some lag time between fixtures ordered and delivered (I ordered), so I ended up paying extra for people to come back and do various things.
2) The tub, despite architectural oversight and multiple sets of eyes going over drawings, was not suitable, so we had to change models.

so, rlmnyc, what did you conclude? are you, at the end of the day, confident in your choice of contractor? did you ask for more detail?

Uh, people who work for a living would know the answer to that, ar.

Prime might also want to chime in on this bit.

On one job, where I had the extensive architectural drawings, and bid out the job, I found that various jobs cost too much (flooring, painting, millwork), so I subbed those jobs out myself.

Now, my GC wasn't too happy about this BUT he couldn't beat the prices I got on the subs. So he went along with it. At the end of the job, he gave me a list of up-charges based on the "extra" work that my subs cost him. To maintain good relations, and because I was happy with the work he did, I paid him whatever he asked. Still, the subs ended up costing me less even with his additional charges.

nyc10023's bathroom job is similar to my reno.
But I have a small bathroom.
Unless Primer finds Jimmy Hoffa under the floor when he replaces it; I should be O.K.

The other thing that happened with the items that my GC subbed out was that when there was an issue with that aspect of the job 2 years on, that no-one stepped up to take responsibility. Sub said that GC told him to do X, and GC said that he didn't know enough (in this area) to say either way. Nothing that an extensive set of drawings could have cured (short of my becoming an expert in this area, which of course I became).

Had I subbed out that task to start with, I would have been more involved and happier with the work done.

This doesn't address the OP's question, but be careful as to who does the work.

That's why Primer is doing my reno, I can avoid those headaches.

Ny 10023,

Well written posts

1. it is always the GC's fault if they are his/her subs. Thats what we get paid for.
2. If a client subs out a piece of the project either: they pay me a small fee to supervise or the sub just comes in and does what he needs to do.
3. Your examples of the quotes are spot on. Thats what I am talking about

Primer:

#1 - not so simple. I told (in writing) GC to do X. GC told sub to do X. However, X is not a standard task - so people's interpretations of this can reasonably differ. In the end, I was not comfortable with how the sub had done it, and because I hadn't brought it up right away with GC (it was 2 years after the fact), I let it go. Had it redone to my satisfaction and cost. Now, what the GC charged me for an inferior job by the original sub was about the same as what I paid.
#2 - sure, but of course, there were some disagreements and fights on site. Nothing is ever that simple.
#3 - thank you, been through this wringer many times.

AR, to answer your question, I conclude from the discussion that there's a lot of misplaced anger out there. I've had to sift through the hostility to get to some very thoughtful responses. We're not going to meet with our contractor for another couple of weeks, so I don't have any more info from him yet. But now I'll have some more good questions, thanks to you, Primer, CC, and some others. Many thanks.

Rlm: good luck.

Also, if you're changing the position of anything (e.g. door placement, sockets, plumbing fixtures, appliances), you might come across something unexpected. Or you may think you like something, but change your mind once you see it in place. This will almost invariably translate into $ out of your pocket.

If you are doing down-to-the studs reno in a postwar (diff. situation in prewar), I highly recommend adding/replacing insulation in all the walls.

Thanks, 10023. I'm sure we'll come across something unexpected, even though we're not planning on doing the things you describe. I'm planning on putting the contractor's new baby through college, in any event.

i would add that i think, unintentionally kyle has done a little bit of disservice in suggesting that if you plan everything correctly and hire the right people that you still won't run into the unexpected. consider that most if not all of these jobs are one offs---despite meticulous planning, lo and behold a key measurement somewhere is off. i would strongly urge you not to have the attitude that the contractor always has to pay in this situation--give and take is a must.

having had homes built and extensive renovations both on a fixed price and on a cost plus, i come down on the side of the latter. any contractor operating on a fixed price must pad it to cover himself and/or be forced to cut (sometimes inexpensive but costly down the road) corners.

Rl: didn't you mention doing a complete bathroom reno - that would entail taking off the walls to the studs, no?

Your original question had to do with whether tiles and fixtures for one bathroom should add up to 20k. That sounds like a lot.

Kohler alcove 5' tub (assuming one with an apron so that eliminates tiling on one side) - 600ish (cast iron)
Medicine cabinet (off the shelf) - say 500 (you can get for cheaper)
Off the shelf Porcher vanity (includes sink & top) - $2000 (also on the high side)
Faucets - bath & sink - $1500 should get you mid-luxe

Tiles can range the gamut from low single digits/sq. ft to $100/sqft. If it's not a large bathroom, and you're not doing wall to wall tile - 3k should get you really nice tiles.

I've erred on the high side for all the items, and I'm at 7500ish.

Ah, sorry, re-read your first post. 20k for 2 baths (?) and window treatments. Your contractor is not necessarily wrong - depends on what level of luxury you expect to get for that.

Why would you use the contractor for window treatments? There are many window shops in town.

Nyc 10023:

Custom shower door: $2,000.00
Towel bar, toilet paper holder, robe hooks: $700.00
Saddles: door and niche: $200.00

Light fixture: $500.00 (guessing)

Thats another $3,400.00

Bathrooms in manhattan are generally 25-30K all in

Primer:

1) Didn't know if he needed a shower door
2) Okay - I have very nice Blomus ones that don't add up to $700. Pottery Barn ones are very adequate and you can get 'em on sale. Also Restoration HW.
3) Saddles - niche (again depends on how he does the reno, I've also done nice ones in tile). Threshold - easy! $30-50 from Home Depot gets you Carrera which goes well with most light tiles unless you want one to match. Also look into getting 'em online - most doors are standard width.
4) Light fixture - $500 is a lot. I've googled thousands online and my conclusion is unless the rest of the apt is high fashion, Seagull/equivalent is fine.

But how does 3400 plus 7500 equal 20000?

Truth -- After several tries, I finally got through to Keith. He says he has no idea what moving company you are talking about, but he would like to figure who you are because he has something for you. I think it's called a restraining order, but I wasn't sure because of his accent. It might have been "training bra."

Still obsessed with the Keith thing, MidtownerEast/ar?

His wife, his manager, and people on his touring crew also know who I am and how to contact me.
They all know that an entire training bra would not fit on one tit.

10023 (any anybody else), last year we had Janovic (building-recommended) replace the blinds for our current rental and we were satisfied. I just thought it would be easier to have our contractor do everything, but do you think we should separately return to Janovic?

Truth, your one tit is best kept to yourselves.

On one of my two tits, ah.
within a minute of my comment, ah is suddenly an expert on female anatomy.

Sometimes I take care of the window treatments. The last ones are on my blog (Trump Place) We installed Hunter Douglas, the prices I gave were cheaper then Janovic

Is that the one of your two tits that is all known by Keith, his wife, his manager, and people on his touring crew?

They have eyes,ah.
They can see them.
Big, unlike your little wienie.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/26894-too-big-to-fail-the-hbo-movie