Having been in the market forever, we've hesitated to pull the trigger - things we like still seem silly expensive, and things that appear to be priced ok we don't like that much. Keeping an eye on the market, though, and considering putting in an offer on one of two apartments: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/544495-coop-150-east-61st-street-lenox-hill-new-york or ... [more]
Having been in the market forever, we've hesitated to pull the trigger - things we like still seem silly expensive, and things that appear to be priced ok we don't like that much. Keeping an eye on the market, though, and considering putting in an offer on one of two apartments:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/544495-coop-150-east-61st-street-lenox-hill-new-york
or
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/593087-coop-360-east-72nd-street-lenox-hill-new-york
Both pretty big, both have layouts we like, both have outdoor space, both require work (although 360 East 72nd requires a lot more). 150 East 61st is obviously a lot cheaper, but it's a land lease, and the maintenance is expected to go up from the current $3600 to $4500-5000 over the next 5 years, then stay aroung there for a long time (based on what we know - still need to diligence further).
Would be interested in people's views on one vs. the other, prices, neighborhoods, buildings, etc.
Thanks in advance.
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Response by tojc516
over 14 years ago
Posts: 80
Member since: Jan 2009
Not even close, 72nd would be choice for me. 61st not a good investment. Land Lease = stay away. Resale is going to be so hard even if you make it $. Mtc already high and will continue to climb. 61st closer to subway which is nice but doesnt outweigh the negatives. The building on 72nd st has excellent financials and much better for resale. Huge space as well. Good luck.
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Response by wannabee
over 14 years ago
Posts: 39
Member since: Dec 2010
i may be biased but unless you're completely against living in the 90's, you'll get way more for your money in a brand new building doing a 4br CD combo at the Azure which they'd probably do for you.
On the other hand, the ground rent "staying around there for a long time" would be unusual. Landowners don't give money gifts to strangers, so the rent must reset periodically. Increments longer than five years would be strange. The lease terms should be in a note to the financials.
360E72 is also a much bigger building, so there're some economies of scale with labor, etc.
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Response by falcogold1
over 14 years ago
Posts: 4159
Member since: Sep 2008
nb99,
What's the question. 61st street??? ru kidding...
The only goofy thing about 72nd street is the one pass through room to the master. I forgot how many kids you have so I forgot the exact # of bedrooms you need but if you could use the pass through room as a family room than your search is over. I especially like the seperation of the master with the extra space. Great escape from the kids. This layout really favors the adults...and it IS your money.
EYE would never steer you wrong.
Your patience is starting to pay off.
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Response by wannabee
over 14 years ago
Posts: 39
Member since: Dec 2010
i should add, between the 2, its not close 72nd is better. my point about still looking was 72nd from the pictures looks like it might need some signficant work including new kitchen?
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Response by sellingmyaptmt
over 14 years ago
Posts: 9
Member since: Oct 2010
NB99,
Do you need a 4 BR or would 3 large bedrooms (with a possible 4th BR or Home Office or leave as a dining alcove) be OK? There is an unadvertised combo that could easily be made of 2 side-by-side unrenovated aptmts, matching up very well for an easy break-through, each for sale in a very nice post-war, 24 hr doorman, and very convenient co-op in the neighborhood where you are looking (a block or 2 from one of the aptmts you mentioned), no land-lease. A 3.0 rms 1 BR plus balc aptmt with many closets with approx 840 sqft interior space, and a 3.5 rms Jr. 4 1 BR plus large balc and many closets and large foyer plus dining L, approx 940 sqft interior space. Both have walls of windows, large bedrooms and large LRs. The config is such that you could easily make a 3rd BR from a LR and could breakthrough 1 or 2 back-to-back closets in the foyers, with plenty of closet space left. One aptmt is listed thru a broker. The other aptmt (mine, the Jr 4) is a FSBO at the moment. Combined price for the 2 is about $1,275,000, plus your reno/combo costs. The 2nd kitchen could be turned into a 3rd bathroom. Total of approx 1780 sqft plus 2 balcs. Indiv controlled central air and heat units (HVAC) in each room. Combined monthly co-op maint for the 2 aptmts is about $2,935 and is about 60% tax deductible. There is no current or announced assessment. There are plenty of other combos in this bldg. The Board allows it and does not frown upon it. If you (newbuyer99) are interested, pls send an email to edashapiro@gmail.com.
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Response by anewplace
over 14 years ago
Posts: 7
Member since: Apr 2009
No question 72nd St is a better deal. Great neighborhood.
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Response by dwell
over 14 years ago
Posts: 2341
Member since: Jul 2008
stay away from ground leases
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Response by realestate19
over 14 years ago
Posts: 114
Member since: Jan 2011
72nd is no longer available
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Response by newbuyer99
over 14 years ago
Posts: 1231
Member since: Jul 2008
Thanks to everyone for your comments. My replies to some of them:
Wannabee - 90s is too high for us.
NWT - I would want experts to confirm before we go to contract, but my read of the land lease is that it steps up for the first 5 years, and then it's just CPI increases. Maybe "stay around there" was not very clear, my bad.
Dwell - "stay away from ground leases" is not very helpful, and a bit simplistic. At a low enough price / big enough discount, land lease can make sense. Question is what that discount/price is.
Falco - we want/need 4 bedrooms. There are multiple ways to make 4 bedrooms at 360 East 72nd, but none of them is exactly ideal. We also don't really value that big a master - wasted space as far as I am concerned. Overall, we actually like the floorplan of 150 East 61st more. Were going back and forth on the neighborhoods (convenience vs. more residential) and price vs. land lease. I guess it's irrelevant now that 360 East 72nd got delisted. Funny timing.
selling: We would like a 4 bedroom, and the total square footage you mention is on the small side. That said, if you have a floorplan you can email, I'll send you an email tomorrow.
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Response by sellingmyaptmt
over 14 years ago
Posts: 9
Member since: Oct 2010
Newbuyer99,
I DO have floorplans of each of the 2 apartments and also of the lined-up-to-scale combination of the 2. I also have write-up and other descriptive info. I think the combined monthly co-op maint of the 2 aptmts may be about $2,962.50, not $2,935 as I had said above. I'd be glad to get the floorplans and other info to you. So pls send an email to me, per above, so that I can respond from my email to you with my phone number, or give me your phone number, if you wish, in your email to me, and then I could call you. Either way fine with me. Might be easiest for me to fax the floorplan to you rather than email, but we can discuss.
Not even close, 72nd would be choice for me. 61st not a good investment. Land Lease = stay away. Resale is going to be so hard even if you make it $. Mtc already high and will continue to climb. 61st closer to subway which is nice but doesnt outweigh the negatives. The building on 72nd st has excellent financials and much better for resale. Huge space as well. Good luck.
i may be biased but unless you're completely against living in the 90's, you'll get way more for your money in a brand new building doing a 4br CD combo at the Azure which they'd probably do for you.
150E61 is closer to everything. Original construction was a bit higher-end, so bigger rooms and windows. (For the '60s brochure, see http://nyre.cul.columbia.edu/projects/view/16623)
On the other hand, the ground rent "staying around there for a long time" would be unusual. Landowners don't give money gifts to strangers, so the rent must reset periodically. Increments longer than five years would be strange. The lease terms should be in a note to the financials.
360E72 is also a much bigger building, so there're some economies of scale with labor, etc.
nb99,
What's the question. 61st street??? ru kidding...
The only goofy thing about 72nd street is the one pass through room to the master. I forgot how many kids you have so I forgot the exact # of bedrooms you need but if you could use the pass through room as a family room than your search is over. I especially like the seperation of the master with the extra space. Great escape from the kids. This layout really favors the adults...and it IS your money.
EYE would never steer you wrong.
Your patience is starting to pay off.
i should add, between the 2, its not close 72nd is better. my point about still looking was 72nd from the pictures looks like it might need some signficant work including new kitchen?
NB99,
Do you need a 4 BR or would 3 large bedrooms (with a possible 4th BR or Home Office or leave as a dining alcove) be OK? There is an unadvertised combo that could easily be made of 2 side-by-side unrenovated aptmts, matching up very well for an easy break-through, each for sale in a very nice post-war, 24 hr doorman, and very convenient co-op in the neighborhood where you are looking (a block or 2 from one of the aptmts you mentioned), no land-lease. A 3.0 rms 1 BR plus balc aptmt with many closets with approx 840 sqft interior space, and a 3.5 rms Jr. 4 1 BR plus large balc and many closets and large foyer plus dining L, approx 940 sqft interior space. Both have walls of windows, large bedrooms and large LRs. The config is such that you could easily make a 3rd BR from a LR and could breakthrough 1 or 2 back-to-back closets in the foyers, with plenty of closet space left. One aptmt is listed thru a broker. The other aptmt (mine, the Jr 4) is a FSBO at the moment. Combined price for the 2 is about $1,275,000, plus your reno/combo costs. The 2nd kitchen could be turned into a 3rd bathroom. Total of approx 1780 sqft plus 2 balcs. Indiv controlled central air and heat units (HVAC) in each room. Combined monthly co-op maint for the 2 aptmts is about $2,935 and is about 60% tax deductible. There is no current or announced assessment. There are plenty of other combos in this bldg. The Board allows it and does not frown upon it. If you (newbuyer99) are interested, pls send an email to edashapiro@gmail.com.
No question 72nd St is a better deal. Great neighborhood.
stay away from ground leases
72nd is no longer available
Thanks to everyone for your comments. My replies to some of them:
Wannabee - 90s is too high for us.
NWT - I would want experts to confirm before we go to contract, but my read of the land lease is that it steps up for the first 5 years, and then it's just CPI increases. Maybe "stay around there" was not very clear, my bad.
Dwell - "stay away from ground leases" is not very helpful, and a bit simplistic. At a low enough price / big enough discount, land lease can make sense. Question is what that discount/price is.
Falco - we want/need 4 bedrooms. There are multiple ways to make 4 bedrooms at 360 East 72nd, but none of them is exactly ideal. We also don't really value that big a master - wasted space as far as I am concerned. Overall, we actually like the floorplan of 150 East 61st more. Were going back and forth on the neighborhoods (convenience vs. more residential) and price vs. land lease. I guess it's irrelevant now that 360 East 72nd got delisted. Funny timing.
selling: We would like a 4 bedroom, and the total square footage you mention is on the small side. That said, if you have a floorplan you can email, I'll send you an email tomorrow.
Newbuyer99,
I DO have floorplans of each of the 2 apartments and also of the lined-up-to-scale combination of the 2. I also have write-up and other descriptive info. I think the combined monthly co-op maint of the 2 aptmts may be about $2,962.50, not $2,935 as I had said above. I'd be glad to get the floorplans and other info to you. So pls send an email to me, per above, so that I can respond from my email to you with my phone number, or give me your phone number, if you wish, in your email to me, and then I could call you. Either way fine with me. Might be easiest for me to fax the floorplan to you rather than email, but we can discuss.
I just emailed you, thanks.
72