Lifesaver Lofts

Had a friend look here and wasn't thrilled with the quality of the building. (though the units do photograph nice)
Had a bigger problem with Bayview correctional facility across the street and a birdseye view inside.
For a positive, it is women and not men.

agreed...taxes seemed very high to me, on all the units...love the $psf

Actually don't seem high to me, just seems unabated.
CC and taxes coming out to around $1.50 per sq ft. That's average.

I don't mean to hijack a thread, but can somebody quickly explain how the abatement generally works? It's usually for 10 years, right? Do taxes go up gradually by a certain percent, or does the whole ball of wax explode after 10 years, to the level it's "supposed to" be at?

manhattan I don't see more than 10 years
It's increased 20% of the abated amount every 2 years.

For example 2b at $4500.

Year1/2 would be something like $450 per month
(4500 - 450 = 4050 X 20% = 810)
(810 + 450 = 1260)
Year3/4 would be something like $1260 per month, and so forth.

Of course the 4500 doesn't stay as a permanent figure as that goes up every year too.

421-a tax abatements as described by truthskr10 is for new construction only, this is a conversion building which could have a J-51 abatement which is generally a much smaller abated amount and varies depending on the amount of work done to the conversion. It is generally a very minimal abatement, but I think (not 100 percent sure) that they did not apply for a J-51 abatement at this building. 421-a abatements in manhattan are 10 year abatements that increase by 20 percent of the estimated final tax number every 2 years until the abatement expires.

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. Wish I could speak to someone on the board!...as apparently they're in the process of filing for an adjustment. I've seen at least 20 places from Chelsea to TriBeCa and nothing comes even close to common charges plus taxes carry this place has. On the same token no place has the price per square foot this place has. As a secondary question does anyone have commentary on this area versus TriBeCa in terms of appreciation? This space far outpaces my current needs so I see myself raising a family and living here minimum 10yrs.

So over $4000/month in taxes is certainly conceivable.

Thanks for the lessons, now back to our originally scheduled thread.

Thanks everyone for the considered responses! I've seen a little over 20 places now between Chelsea and TriBeCa and none had the carrying charges of this apartment. My attorney says there's little precedent for a "grievance" so succeed here as the city is unlikely to reduce its own tax base. Anyone have additional thoughts on the area as an investment compared to more prime Chelsea or TriBeCa? Ownership timeframe would be at least 10yrs.

>I've seen a little over 20 places now between Chelsea and TriBeCa and none had the carrying charges of this apartment

It's likely most of what you saw has 421 tax abatements or less sq footage. THing is, when you actually lookup what the abated taxes are, your likely at $2 per sq ft on new development condos.
So for the first 5 to seven years your ahead of the game, after that........
Could you post 3 or 4 of the 20 you saw?

loftbuyer- i could be wrong, because it has been a while since i was in that building but doesn't the B line have a number of lot line windows? I personally love that area, but that building in general has been a tough sale for those developers. PS tax grievances take forever to resolve with the city....

"when you actually lookup what the abated taxes are, your likely at $2 per sq ft on new development condos"

I have no basis to debate whether this is true, but if it is, and the unwinding of these abatements on the many conversions/new construction in the bubble years will mean basic 1200 sq ft apartments carry $30,000 annual tax bills in 5 years, good luck selling those things. That said, I do not know anyone paying $2 per sq ft, or even $1 sq ft, for a Manhattan condo of any vintage.

I meant both maintenance and taxes for the $2.
Maintenance and taxes more often than not are 50/50.
So you'll find the the majority of taxes certainly around $1.

You can verify any abated tax on any unit right here;
http://nycprop.nyc.gov/nycproperty/nynav/jsp/selectbbl.jsp

loftbuyer--i worry that chelsea wil go the way of soho over the next few years--i had been waiting for the next dip (which i anticipate) to buy there--i have been wary that, in the better bldgs, chelsea is the highest $psf in the city but for 5th ave and cpw, but was able to get past that, based on my pleasure with the neighborhood--recently i was prompted to ask my friend, who's lived seminary blk/21st st for several years, if the highline has marked the top for the neighborhood--his reply: it has ruined the neighborhood--and he predicts a mallification process a la soho to provide cheeseball shopping for all the waistpack clad tourists who have invaded--i think he may be right--my recent experiences in the neighborhood confirm the cheesball invasion--prices may stall/fall and they have in soho based on this

Here's a 1200 sq ft apartment
20 pine st 1508
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/586319-condo-20-pine-street-financial-district-new-york
1208 sq ft listed maintenance $1118 taxes $1.
If you look on the quarterly statement from the link I provided and scroll down to the last page you'll see;
Taxes before exemptions and abatements; $19,000
Taxes before abatement : $11,361.

So Im no quite clear on whether in 10 years your paying 19K a year or $11K. But there's your $1 a foot
tax.

Or a condo I know is at least 10 years old and not abated, 401 east 60th st 20B
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/497989-condo-401-east-60th-street-lenox-hill-new-york
1253 sq ft
Maintenance $1066, taxes $1349.
You do the math.

Show me any doorman building condo that doesn't have at least $1 per sq ft in taxes.....

WBottom -- That's an interesting point. SoHo tourism can be quite horrifying. That process taking place in West Chelsea would be a new concern. My architect and contractor viewed yesterday so I'm all ready to go. My last hesitations are still the RETs. I wonder how likely it is that the city approves a grievance to reduce them tax load for the building due to change of use. Does anyone know of precedent for such a move?

The correctional facility might be leaving so that's not a long term liability.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/lockdown_hutdown_9TFntzkOc6M1sg37V7It5K

The apartments are great in that bldg but the common charges are bad. Wouldn't touch it until they get lowered.

So if the state owns the lot what could it become once the prison is shuttered? About to make the plunge here or another place so just trying to gather some last bits of info. Also, if anyone knows the likelihood of a real estate tax grievance passing would be good to know. Even if there's any precedent for such a reduction. $4500 is too much!

Loft-buyer 0309, did you purchase the Unit 2b?
what was your final offer?
BTW RET is still subject to increase, if developer did not obtain abatement before - it is almost impossible to do it once all tax lots are subdivided

Does this building have a doorman? I don't think so. I wouldn't want to be paying 3+ million in that area without a doorman...

part time doorman (9-4) in corner building - not in the building where 2 units are for sale
water damages in second floor units - wood floors buckled up
windows are broken and do not close properly - tons of noise from highway (forever)

I think the reason the taxes are high is that this was originally zoned for commercial use but they then decided to go all commercial. They should be able to get a reduction on that basis but I don't know how long it will take.

Forgetting about the super high common charges, with respect to pricing, I'm not sure it's such a good deal based on the comps on the building. The apartment above was fully finished with good (not spectacular) developer finishes. But it has central HVAC, nice bathrooms, Boffi kitchen, etc. It sold for $3.2mm. Even if you got 2B for $2.2mm, you are still looking at $1mm in renovation cost to fully build out the space (including new floors, mechanicals, etc.). And that doesn't take into account the fact that you are on the 2nd floor, closer to the highway noise, have a gallery below you that does night events, etc.

Also, I checked out the unit and the soundproofing from floor to floor was not good. You could hear the dog upstairs barking up a storm!

Got a pretty good price for PH67A...I see pictures and it looks pretty great but taxes and CC are high...how do people feel about the neighborhood and the fact that there's no doorman?

**A listing for sale (3A) says theirs a doorman and so do a few others that have been on the market...I feel like they didn't have one before though...a year ago or so most listings did not list a doorman as an amenity and the building description doesn't mention one, so I'm not sure...

It'd have to be two doormen per shift, since there're two separate residential lobbies. With only ten apartments to cover the cost, I wonder how CCs like 3A's $1800 are possible.