Phantom all cash offer

Any input would be appreciated.

walk away

I'm with kehoeba, and I suspect that the majority of my enemies are too.

Don't fall in love with the place. It has a value to you and if someone is willing to pay more than the value to you, let them. It sucks, emotionally, but your pocketbook will thank you for not paying more than it is worth to you.

It's New York, just move on.

angray, What I realized when bidding for a place to put a bid at where it makes sense to you (was not easy to convince the wife not to overbid). If you do not get it, keep looking. We bid on place where there was a genuine cash buyer higher than the ask but walked away after winning the bid. The broker came back to us but in the meantime, we had found a couple of other places we were interested in. I saw the sale at ask which was our bid.

contact owner directly to make sure your offer was passed along.. it will piss off the broker but who cares,..

not saying you're broker's lying, but unfortunately many of the bad brokers do practice this tactic too often.

Seller's broker is obligated to pass on all writtedn offers to the buyer and they do unless your offer is significantly lower or broker is representing a buyer who is willing to pay at least the same as you. They have no other incentive to pass-on your offer.

I totally agree with what everyone has said. Just got frustrated with the "games" being played. Regardless, we walked away and will see what came of this in 3 months.

And what if offer is not written?

do not listen to hol4, the all cash deal could fall apart. There could be conditions to it. I agree with hburg, walk away and wait to see what if that offer sticks. Dont pay up, unless your in love with it & nothing compares, you plan on being there for the next 15 years & you have money like that. Any broker who would pull that tactic is the worst broker ever. I dont know any broker who would even think about that, it doesnt make sense, a bluff like that is a career and commission killer. It is Manhattan, I am not surprised someone else is making an offer. Whatever drew you to like that property drew the other buyer, just at the same time.

>>Any broker who would pull that tactic is the worst broker ever.

ever than the last one that did that?

. I dont know any broker who would even think about that,

you don't know a lot of brokers do you?

it doesnt make sense, a bluff like that is a career and commission killer.

there will be others

Whatever drew you to like that property drew the other buyer, just at the same time.

wow what a coincidence!

angeloz is a broker trying to keep his bluff card.. you have every right to get in touch with the owner if you feel the broker isn't passing your offer when his contract states so..

i've done it before, and got his selling broker fired, since the broker stated "2 offer were out," knowing i had the cash.. no such offers existed and seller was PO'ed.. didn't close on the place but closed on another without a broker, cutting another 2.3% off price..

not saying all brokers are worthless and bad, just 99% of them (ala angeloz) who generalizes "I don't know any broker who would do that," yes which way to kansas?

Unfortunately this has happen every time I have gotten into a bidding situation. There is always a miraculous other buyer just waiting in the wings. They use the tactic to pressure you and get you to pay more than you want to. Stand firm, be patient.

>>>Unfortunately this has happen every time I have gotten into a bidding situation. There is always a miraculous other buyer just waiting in the wings. They use the tactic to pressure you and get you to pay more than you want to. Stand firm, be patient.

Agreed.

When he comes back, lower your offer. It is a buyers market.

Sorry, I should of been speaking for myself. I would never do that. When you are doing good, people are referring you and your business is growing, you forget about all those brokers who are not. I agree that any Broker that does do the bluff move, deserves to get fired and deserves to lose their license. I would report them to Their Firm, DOS and REBNY or whatever their affiliation is. Sorry that happened to you hol4, brokers like that really ruin the business. My feeling really comes from some past experiences of having a property sit around forever , no one wants it, but then out of no where I have 5 people who need it right away. Coincidences do happen.
There are other ways to handle it, Why not just wait and call the bluff? You may have more leverage afterward. Ask the broker for a counter signed offer sheet officially rejecting his offer from the seller. Call the brokers manager if you really are suspicious. Calling the seller can backfire in so many ways, I cant get into all the variables but calling the seller is the last desperate resort..

Don't walk - RUN!

ignore any and all said by any broker---their interests and yours are generally opposed (if you are trying to get good value)---and it's a buyers' market right now--- which typical pressure tactics of brokers particularly laughable---in the event you get an honest broker, how does that help--if youve shopped the market reasonably, you should have your own valuation concept--bid with some room to negotiate to your ultimate high price, and when you hit your ultimate price, give the seller 3 days to respond with a contract, or tell them YOU will be signing another seller's contract

works like a charm--"wow i just saw your apt at the last minute, and at XXX price i would walk away from the contract here on my desk--but if you aren't at xxx price, i will go ahead with this other deal--whatever the case i dont have much time, so if you want the deal, get me your contract via messenger by close of tomorrow---sorry if this seems tough, but it's tho only way i can buy your apt"

So my friend from Italy finally finds a nice condo apt.(with the help of a buyer's broker) and I put in an all-cash offer, at the full asking price.

The seller is a young couple with 2 big dogs, and 2-year-old twins. All of them living in a 900sqft one-bedroom. It was on the market for almost a year.

Buyer's broker instructs me to put my offer in writing.
The very next day after I do so, the buyer's broker e-mails to inform me that:
" The listing broker says there is another all-cash buyer who put in a higher offer than you. Are you willing to offer more?"

I call the buyer's broker and say: "What kind of an e-mail is that?! All of a sudden, overnight -- another all cash offer came in and you don't even say what the counter-ask is."
The buyer's broker says: "Well, the seller doesn't have to tell you how much more was offered."

I say again: "What is the seller's next asking price?"
She says "I don't know."
I respond: "Tell the listing broker to tell the seller to take that other offer and stick it up his ass."

My friend is back to looking. O.K. with us both.

That is just absurd. The cojones to try and pull that stunt. Property has been on the market for almost a year and they want people to believe there is an all-cash offer above ask.. What I want to understand is where this action stems from, the broker or seller?

Why on earth would you offer full asking price in cash in a down market for an apartment that has been on the market for a year? And why isn't the buyer's broker doing the negotiation.

there will be plenty of others at lower price.

Welcome back Truth.
Why on earth would you offer full asking price in cash for an apartment that has been on the market for a year by obviously desperate sellers busting at the seams?

I guess you can bust at the seams too, though I meant burst at the seams.

Truth, seriously, you need your head examined if you offered full price on this.

angeloz
7 days ago
ignore this person
report abuse Sorry, I should of been speaking for myself. I would never do that. When you are doing good, people are referring you and your business is growing, you forget about all those brokers who are not. I agree that any Broker that does do the bluff move, deserves to get fired and deserves to lose their license. I would report them to Their Firm, DOS and REBNY or whatever their affiliation is. Sorry that happened to you hol4, brokers like that really ruin the business. My feeling really comes from some past experiences of having a property sit around forever , no one wants it, but then out of no where I have 5 people who need it right away. Coincidences do happen.
There are other ways to handle it, Why not just wait and call the bluff? You may have more leverage afterward. Ask the broker for a counter signed offer sheet officially rejecting his offer from the seller. Call the brokers manager if you really are suspicious. Calling the seller can backfire in so many ways, I cant get into all the variables but calling the seller is the last desperate resort..

This is absurd pandering the the se crowd. as an agent, you should realize that your obligation is to get the best price for your owner, not make the buyer happy. sure, every offer to the owner has to be submitted-not doing so is a violation. but tough negotiating with a bueyer will get you fired? what if their owner told them to stick it out and see if they could get the offer raised? it's negotiating 101. angeloz, if i were you, i'd close out my account. if i were an owner reading this, i'd never give you a listing.

Truth
about 5 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse So my friend from Italy finally finds a nice condo apt.(with the help of a buyer's broker) and I put in an all-cash offer, at the full asking price.

The seller is a young couple with 2 big dogs, and 2-year-old twins. All of them living in a 900sqft one-bedroom. It was on the market for almost a year.

Buyer's broker instructs me to put my offer in writing.
The very next day after I do so, the buyer's broker e-mails to inform me that:
" The listing broker says there is another all-cash buyer who put in a higher offer than you. Are you willing to offer more?"

I call the buyer's broker and say: "What kind of an e-mail is that?! All of a sudden, overnight -- another all cash offer came in and you don't even say what the counter-ask is."
The buyer's broker says: "Well, the seller doesn't have to tell you how much more was offered."

I say again: "What is the seller's next asking price?"
She says "I don't know."
I respond: "Tell the listing broker to tell the seller to take that other offer and stick it up his ass."

My friend is back to looking. O.K. with us both.

Love how everyone has their dirty harry war stories here. most people can't nogotiate a better table at a restaurant.

>>Love how everyone has their dirty harry war stories here. most people can't nogotiate a better table at a restaurant.

Not so sure I'd agree with this. I think a more precise statement would be, "most brokers are terrible negotiators with below average intelligence that have to lie to try to justify there absurd listing price".

It they were smart and were good at negotiating they'd convince the seller that in a buyers market, it is better to price the property closet to the market as possible or risk selling it a an even lower price in the future. Below is a link that displays this point over and over again.

ie an old successful traders axiom. "hit your first bid or the next one will be lower"

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5465-chasing-the-market-down-our-favorite-price-choppers?last_page=true

>ie an old successful traders axiom

Real estate afficianado and trading master. That's really impressive.

bursting.. busting ...... 220 .. 221 what ever it takes.

you mispelled "their".

of course you aren't sure if you agree. if i said the sky was blue you'd say brokers are stupid. what do you do for a living that pits you against so many with finely honed negotiating skills? and when did this turn into a buyers market? saying it is doesn't make it so

>>you mispelled "their"
wow do you feel smart? you corrected my use of there.. good for you.. you get an A (probably you first).

>>and when did this turn into a buyers market? saying it is doesn't make it so.

Are you for real? Are RE prices going up or down? I guess you've mad my point. Stop worrying about how much you can bench press and pick up a newspaper or the last link I put up above. I'd have time to help you with your GED, so I will cut and paste a few more reasons why this is a buyers market

Look, Nothing is better than 3 years ago. Census data released just recently for 2010' s showed incomes in Manhattan are down 10%, NYC 5% and a substantial decrease for upper incomes(>$200K). It is fact that income is directly correlated to RE, Do you think income levels will be up for 2011' or 12' for that mater? If we dont' see more layoffs to balance the budget for the decline in NYC, Manhattan revenues, we will see an increase in taxes. I can go on and on (just like this guy says below).. --

1. Prices are dropping ----- TRUE
2. Areas like Harlem can't move units ------ TRUE
3. New developments throughout the city have slowed and are reducing price --- TRUE
4. Line around the block to buy are non-existent ----- TRUE
5. Dow is just above 12,000 (down from 14,000) --- Well a lot LOWER- under 11,000
6. Unemployment went from 4.5 to 5.5 - --------- now 9.1
7. Collapse of Bear (was in business for 85 years) ---- Lehman,
8. Every financial stock (except GS) is down 50,60,70 or 80% -- no GS is under $95
9. Wallstreet layoffs in the tens of thousands ---- Still laying off
10. The dollar is devastated -- ~76.7 $/yen
11. Commodities Thru the roof ----- well, flawed logic here-- but gold is ~1600 an once(up from ~$700
12. Inflation/stagflation ----- borderline deflation-- FED initiating QE3 or operation twist
13. Worst housing crisis since the great depression. ----- TRUE
14. IB's basically stopped lending money. ------ TRUE
15. Regional banks closing daily. ----True 73 banks have closed ytd 2011' most recently CBNC
16. Tighter lending standards. -- True- addtionally- Fnam/fredie back enforcing lending guidelines fro Condos/Coops in
17. High Inventory -- higher inventory- large shadow inventory

I could be here all day. All of this in the last 6 months. I laugh when people said that big wallstreet bonuses fueled the housing boom in Manhattan and now that bonuses are going to be non-existant it won't have an effect in the future. The tide has turned in the last six months and just because real estate is not being given away doesn't mean the wheels aren't in motion. Real estate is not a liquid asset, it takes time for the market to react. The only way I see this being stopped is wallstreet re-hires and gives the huge bonuses like past years.

Oh and most importantly, all of this occured even with the Federal Gov't Bailing out Wallstreet. Without the discount window, well I don't even want to imagine how bad things would be. If the next six months are anything like this, the economy will take years to recover.

PLEASE tough guy please give me one reason why it is not a buyers market!!!!

Brooks2, what do you think of the dirty ape on west 67th street who can squatz and bench presz at the gymz but who couldn't hold a job, cheated his landlord when he was an owner, and cheated his tenants when he was a residential landlord, but owns a porsche and a yacht?

are you in the market to buy an apartment right now? ask someone who is. or read threads here (the ones you chose to ignore) about how challenging buyers are finding it to find an apartment at a price they want to pay.
there have been hundreds of people like you on this board in the three years ive been paying attention. all gleefully throwing evidence around "proving" their point of view. i have yet to see these pricew that have been predicted.

Hb- I'd rather not comment. As I told you once before.. I read a lot of your posts because you are pretty funny and when you decide to advise, it is usually good. I did not want to get on your bad side because you can be pretty scathing. We had our joust. It got pretty dirty. It's over. I really don't like going there, so I don't want to start with in with W67.

re market is far too localized to make such assinine statements like "re.prices are going down".

Jh-- Pleases just show me. All I've seen in this market are apartments sitting there for 6 months until the seller decides to lower the price. lower it again. then lower it again.. I have not seen any bidding wars. I can't says the prices always go down, but everyone I have seen has. There are 17 reasons up there that show It is a buyers market. Prices are deflating. I give a few more .. ie house hold income declining(in addition to Stock mkt all asset values are deflating, double dip recession banks failing.. If it's more difficult to get financing, underwriting standards are becoming more strict, buyer assets are deflating and incomes are down.. .. .taxes up.(broken record). I look at real estate all the time.. yes people have money.. but not as much as they used too. I am in the market to buy anything when the prices are right.. i have put cash bids on apts and have seen some of them immediately come down $100k. My bids have not been hit yet, maybe one day they will.. then you won't hear from me anymore.

>>>have yet to see these pricew that have been predicted.... ???? seriously.. I have given many examples of "back to 04' levels" Seriously, I feel like i am beating a dead horse.. if you think it's a sellers market make your case. That I can respect.

All cash offer?
What the f does that mean?
10% under ask?
Wish the broker and the buyer good luck and they can get back to you when they are interested in 25% under ask. Also mention to the broker that banks give away calendars FOR FREE....it's not 2006, bullshit scumb bag broker who is too lazy to even think of a believable con.

Facegold1...wish the broker and the buyer good luck and they can get back to you when they are interested in 25% under ask. Also mention to the broker that banks give away calendars FOR FREE....it's not 2006, bullshit scumb bag broker who is too lazy to even think of a believable con.

have you read this any of this dialogue I have been having with this dope Jon hones who's trying to convince me that this is a sellers market but can not offer any examples.. I ask you because of the comment you just mad about the banks not giving out toasters..

Jim feeds from the beast which is transaction.
He does not care the price.
Everyday is a good day to make a deal.

By the way,
What's the value of an all cash offer?
All it brings is speed and certitude.
If that's all it's worth then all cash offers would include a brief window of opportunity to act.
They wouldn't be....take your time and see if you can beat it.
All cash offers can really only have value to a nervous seller for what ever reason.
If the deal is for all cash then you would have to come in at an even lower offer.

I have been looking now for over two years. Have made about 5 offers in that time. Closest offer to ask: - 15%, most at -20%. Each time all cash offer. Each time - sold to a higher bid - never all cash. In my experience, has not offered any help in negotiations.

Brooks2 I like your comments & agreed. I follow Brooklyn market and frankly am offended by some recent "Asks" and wonder if I am off for wondering if this really is a buyer's market. I will say that on the whole the only properties that MOVE are A) great location B) well laid out C) tastefully renovated. I see a lot of "dogs" lingering with brokers just waiting for a sucker to come along & overpay. BTW "All Cash" folks can be Nauseating - we attended an Open House where a potential blob of a wife buyer was 'gushing' about her ability to pay 'all cash.' Even the Broker tried to "put a sock in her mouth!"

sjtmd
about 3 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse I have been looking now for over two years. Have made about 5 offers in that time. Closest offer to ask: - 15%, most at -20%. Each time all cash offer. Each time - sold to a higher bid - never all cash. In my experience, has not offered any help in negotiations.

Does this sound like a buyers market to you? Mind you, this is an actual person who is putting offers in to buy property, not a doubchebag wannabe (brooks for example) who think they have the market pegged while playing armchair quaterback. exactly the type of evidence that merits attention, not what some doom spewing psychopath dreams up between wanks to scare everyone (brooks again).

falcogold1
about 4 hours ago
stop ignoring this person
report abuse Jim feeds from the beast which is transaction.
He does not care the price.
Everyday is a good day to make a deal.

Of course I care about the price. On the seller side highest bid wins. Which is why I am not above colluding with my owner to try and help him/her get their asking provided Im not breaking a law.

>>>we attended an Open House where a potential blob of a wife buyer was 'gushing' about her ability to pay 'all cash

no that's just Dumb-- sounds like a negotiating tactic that cheerleader jim Homes would use.

was she a blob? or a potential blob?
a wife? or a potential wife?
a buyer? or a potential buyer?

and btw "all cash" certainly has value, especially in a coop

implies that no mtge contingency will be needed, and that buyer has adequate financials

all else equal, or close to, the cash buyer wins

Thanks for the "welcome back", huntersburg.

All cash because I wanted it done a.s.a.p.
Even at the asking price, it had been lowered a few times and was a very good price.
Where better to put that kind of money these days? Stock market investments : I have.
Shitty Bank?: I have.
Crapital One: I have.
No debt of any kind to pay off.
Gold: I have.

Was it the broker or the seller? Maybe a combo of both. (including the buyer's broker).

Yes, there are other apts. out there. May score another for a lower price.
Once the buyer's broker e-mailed me about the sudden, overnight change of events -- I had no intention of buying it anyway. I just wanted to see what her reply would be.
"I don't know".: Priceless!

sidelinesitter: How ya doin'?
The lady in Lucy's former apt. says I'm better than you. It's been a couple of months, so she may have changed her opinion of me. Or, of you.

"i am all cash, do not need a mtge contingency, have more than adequate financials for this building, and am prepared to move immediately. my lawyer is ready to review a contract for immediate execution."

meaningful to a serious seller, and a way of flushing out a garbage seller trying to shop your offer

if dbag seller can't get a contract together in a few days, having verbally accepted your offer, you know youre being shopped, and you give a 36 hour deadline for a contract--

sjtmd--your offer has to be at least close to that which requires a mtge--keep trying tho, you are doing it the right way, and will ultimately get a nice deal--and, certainly if youre renting youve saved money, net, being patient

>All cash because I wanted it done a.s.a.p.
Even at the asking price, it had been lowered a few times and was a very good price.

Truth: sorry, but that was poor negotiating. Regardless of past lowered prices, by you meeting the ask and offering all cash, you basically indicated that you have room to the upside. If you really wanted the place, but offered - whatever, pick 5 or 10% below - at least when they come back to you the most that they could sensibly counter for is the original ask and you might still have some room for another modest counter lower.

huntersburg: Agree with you on that.
I was out of the country. My vacation was over and I was working on a project.
The project entailed negotiation of various aspects. Plus I was trying to book a press schedule for a tour and for an upcoming N.Y.C. charity benefit (BRUUUCE!).

So I just wanted to pay the seller his ask. If I were him, I would have taken the money and ran to buy a house in the burbs with a nice backyard for the dogs and for the kids to play in.

Next time I will negotiate as you suggested.

I don't mind having my head examined, if it also involves a nice scalp massage.

so you offered the ask because you were out of the country?

or because your vacation was over?

or because of your work?

which one?

huntersburg: I see cc. must have missed me. I'm gone for almost 2 months and he's been waiting to jump on as soon as I get back and posted a comment here.

Isn't there anything else to do in Columbia County?

"I have been looking now for over two years. Have made about 5 offers in that time. Closest offer to ask: - 15%, most at -20%. Each time all cash offer. Each time - sold to a higher bid - never all cash. In my experience, has not offered any help in negotiations."

I would think that the cash offer is not worth more than 1-2% discount relative to an offer from someone solid financially. If you think the whole market is overpriced, 15% down bid would not work. However, if you think that a particular property is overpriced relative to the market and is sitting on the market for more than 3 months, worth the shot.

As a buyer, I think that an all-cash offer might work for me in some cases, but certainly not all. It really depends on the seller and their circumstances. In any case, I'd be really surprised if it got me more than a 5% discount.

RE brokers should be held to some sort of fiduciary standard. Next time request a written decline of the offer and mail it to the owner of the apartment and to the real estate agents company. Did the apartment ever close higher?..

>Next time request a

What do you do when your request is ignored?

sonnynyc: The condo I was referring to is still on the market, been close to a month since the offer.

Yes, huntersburg:
I was thinking that was a good idea until I envisioned requesting a written decline and then waiting for it to never arrive.

That wouldn't help my wanting to go into contract a.s.a.p.

My friend has found a couple of other apts. she likes in neighborhoods she likes better than that one.
She enjoys looking and learning her way around the N.Y.C. transit system.

sonnynyc:
If directed to me, the answer to your question is as of today that condo is still listed and not in contract yet.

Truth --- your post from 4 days ago rings very true with me (cash, stocks, gold, etc.). If I may ask, where did you buy, and what are the "general specifics" of your apt? (beds, baths, pre-war, etc.)?

Isle of Lucy:

Glad to hear that you're in good financial shape.

I didn't buy that unit. It was in a Condo building in Riverdale. Not many condos up there, mostly co-ops so you may be able to figure out which building. Very nice river views, gym in building, rooftop deck, 24hr doorman. Free guest parking. The express bus to Manhattan stops around the corner. The Metro North stops down the hill.
Built in the 1980s and it was a one-bedroom, one bath.

I figure that any seller with a decent broker has reviewed the comps and priced the unit accordingly.
If a buyer is willing to pay all-cash at the full asking price -- take the money!
Don't try to weasle the buyer out of more money without even giving the next asking price.
I walked away from it, and it's still on the market.

It's still on the market, Lucy.
If interested go see it and lowball that seller.

wow troosh doosh, a big shot like you buying a one bdrm in riverdale?? express bus to manhattan...live it up!!

I had a friend who had been looking on and off for a while. Everytime he put in an offer, the broker came back and said "you need to raise your offer; we have a full price all cash offer". This happened at least 10 times in 18 months. After about the third time, I realized this is just a tactic sleazy (most) brokers use to get you to raise your price. My friend's response was generally "then you should take that offer". At least 80% of time, the broker came back a month or two later (sometimes more) and said "the offer fell apart; are you still interested".

it happened to us too. Wait a few days, it is still on the market then you know it is a faked offer.

Truth, I'm not in the market, just curious. The phantom all-cash buyer is out there, always, everywhere, and I have run into him/her twice in the past three years. I sympathize.

Lucy: No big deal to me.
The apt. is for my friend from Italy to live in, while I live in her home in Tuscany.
She prefers not to live in Manhattan.

She's happily looking at other apts. while my flight was delayed 3 times yesterday so I went back home from the airport. Taking a different flight later today and the weather is better.
Airline delays ruin my plans. "The phantom all-cash buyer" doesn't bother me. I was out of that scene as soon as it became evident to me.

Happened to me with 3 apts, all on Mkt now at lower prices. Makes you wonder if seller ever saw the offers??
Very odd, why doesn't the broker ring the register and move on? I don't see the rationale..

they are dopes. that's why

Yes, they are dopes. That explains it,sonnynyc.

If more of us potential buyers continue to walk away, the borkers will have to cut that crap out.

"I have another offer, so if you like the apartment you should hurry to make an offer",

another favorite.

5 months later and the apartment is still on the market at a lower price. I really don't think these brokers understand how stupid they look when they say these things in this market.

Well, if the broker had even told me that there was another offer when I made the appt. to see the unit or even while I was in the apt.; that might have been less borkerish.
But, nooooo....

If apartments start trading where they are supposed to trade then comps will go down. Once comps go down, no one will be able to refinance even though rates are so low. Since enough apartment owners have large mortgages, this will freeze things up for a bit. No one wants to pay to leave their apartment or come out of their apartment with less capital then they put in. Reality is starting to set in and a price correction is inevitable. Europe is not an overnight fix. Layoffs and low bonuses are inevitable. Higher taxes are a necessity. Not trying to sound like a crash is coming, but it will be a buyers market for awhile. The more people who don't fall for the lies, the faster the market will correct itself. The good brokers that do their jobs will benefit, the liars will deal with karma and continue to bottom feed..

For a minute I thought sonnynyc might have some real opinions. Not that I necessarily agreed with many of them, but real opinions nonetheless. Then, the blather about karma, which is basically a lazy person's way to feel good about him or herself without the requirement of actual responsibility.

Did you ever go to a children's ward in a hostpital? What was the karma that put those kids there?

Bottom Feeder :
a loser who profits from the fortunes of others. A low or despicable person.

actually wasn't going to use that word, meant in the context of being a broker, the good ones that do their jobs and represent the buyer and/or seller will do very well,
the ones who continue to use old tactics like lying about other offers, lying about it being a "fair price", etc. will do poorly..

Wow, a loser profits from the fortunes of others.

What does a winner do?

Winners do the right thing. Winners do their jobs well. Winners provide a honest service for the benefit of their customers.
Losers lie about other offers. Losers try and "sell" an apartment to people that are trying to purchase a home. Losers keep offers from their clients. etc etc etc...

You said that a loser profits from the fortunes of others.

Generally, unless qualified as a bad fortune, a fortune is considered to be positive.

always splitting hairs... misfortune of others.. he meant misfortune!!

right, I get it: good, bad, up, down, hot, cold - all the same to sonny who is the ultimate judge of brokers.

One real life example from competitive bid situation in June that recently was recorded - our bid (with mortgage contingency) was 10% over ask; sale to all-cash buyer recorded at about 1% over ask. So seller left about 9% on the table to take the all-cash offer.

i once left 15k on the table, sold to a lesser bidder after best bidder was a complete dbag about contract--it became clear that it might be tough to close with this idiot--the 15K was good money spent--smooth and easy with ultimate buyer

i still have the letter from dbag where he goes ballistic, threatens etc---makes me giggle