price and demand dichotomy in studio sales market

ttt

I have noticed that studios and small 1-bedroom apartments are cheaper on the UES or UWS than in Brooklyn. Prices seem to be back to 2002-2003. I wonder if we'll walk back to the 100k price level, like it used to be in the 90's.

maly:

1. even 1-2 years ago prices in Brownstone Brooklyn exceeded those on the UES
2. the question is why, which is the same question this threads asked re downtown Manhattan

I think it probably is about access to nightlife and things to do.

To me, buying a studio means one of the three things:
(1) Accepting that you're going to be single for a long time
(2) You and your spouse/partner each have the patience and lack of materialistic desire of saints to be able to stand to live together in one room with no stuff
(3) You want a pied-a-terre or weekend place.

(2) is unlikely and (3) is restricted, which leaves (1). Downtown/midtown neighborhoods generally have a lot more appeal for singles.

I think the people who count their pennies are being cautious, while people who live off the bank of mom-and-dad prefer to live in hip neighborhoods. I own downtown, in one of the hip neighborhoods, a lot of people love to walk to work and entertainment. I believe Jane Jacobs was right about how people love to live in mixed residential/office/commerce areas, because they are safer, 24-hour hoods. Even with children, people who can afford it stay. As a result, purely residential areas are second-choices, which is reflected in the price. It may be a generational shift, from baby boomers who would "graduate" to residential streets or even suburbs, to Gen X who want to live, play and work in the same place.

Is any significant part of Manhattan "purely residential"? Not below 96th Street, certainly . . .

Isn't 12 W 72nd priced at 298K? That studio is as tiny as it gets. Probably still $1K sq/ft.

The UWS and UES are as close to purely residential as you can get in Manhattan. I don't know coops but try finding a condominium south of 96th St for less than $1000 psf. A SE search reveals there are currently only five studio listings on the UWS and seven studios on the UES (not counting 12 in Yorkville or 10 in Park West Village north of 96th) priced less than $1000 psf. Needless to say, they are not in luxury buildings or the most prestigious locations.

I think you guys are ignoring the jobs factor. We have a Jr. 1-Bed for sale in Gramercy (not sure whether it comes up as a studio or a 1-bed in rb's search) and most of the customers we are seeing already live downtown and want to stay there because that's where they work.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Ali:

1. the asking prices at 301 East 22nd Street seem very low relative to the area
2. I have a friend who owns three sponsor units there and has considred seeling one or more
3. last I heard it was a 40% down building
4. is that why asking prices are so low .. or beccause it's east of 2nd Ave .. or both

dichotomy

don't we have a rule about using this word?

UWS cheap...no, I am always looking on the UWS and the prices are in the mid-400's and an alcove studio is $550k.

Julia:

1. I've seen prime location UWS doorman studios under $250k and $300k on SE and CL
2. I've also seen Coops like 310 Riv Dr and 235 West 102nd asking close to or more than $300k
3. in the 1990's I was in both buildings
4. their asking prices seem very high relative to other stuff advertised on SE, CL and OLR
5. I was also in a lot of UWS bldgs in the 1990's looking at REOs or foreclosure auctions
6. what have you seen and what are you finding price and quality-wise
7. if I know something that might be useful to you I will post it in this thread
8. one thing that strikes me: undesirable apts appear to have crashed in asking price
9. by undesirable I mean very small, poorly laid out, ground floor front, hi floor w/u

rb345, does it bother you that when you registered you didn't take the name rb12345?

sorry if i'm oversimplifying, but isn't it awfully hard to make $/sq ft comparisons between different neighborhoods when you don't know the unit's view? i mean, i wonder if you don't just have factors like more buildings big enough to have airshaft views in some neighborhoods, vs. places that are more townhouse- or side-street-dominated where buildings that big are rare.

rb:

I would need my colleague 30_yrs to tell me the history of 301 East 22nd, but I show it as currently allowing 80% financing. I think the prices are low because of a conflation of factors: the Second Avenue factor being the greatest, but also the units are a little small, and it's a co-op.

Though I have to say, at $300K they look like bargains to me.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Rb - don't know if you're new to SE but fyi - julia is most likely a broker shill who has been playing the role of "poor betrodden naïve victim of high prices". For years, even at the extreme downturn of the market when prices were off 20%+, she added nothing to discussions except "prices are too high! They keep going up!" so she has zero credibility.

What's weird and totally inconsistent is that for the last 3 years she's been complaining about studio prices being too high, but she apparently BOUGHT an apartment 3 years ago!

julia

there are changes...nothing major...I recently bought an apartment but now I'm getting calls from realtors who had clients that would not budge and they are now willing to listen....too late for me but a slight move to sanity.



about 3 years ago

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Why would an apt owner whine incessantly about higher and higher prices during a major downturn, unless she is a broker or a complete moron who has no knowledge of the marketplace.

hrd/Ali:

1. I've been buying in Manhattan since 1983
2. neighborhoods price differences are wider now that they've ever been
3. the rental market went that way years ago'

4. rents for the 700 ft 1-bds in my doorman building seem to be about the same as those of
my 400 ft 3rd floor interior courtyard EV 1-bd in an 1888 building, maybe even lower

5. it's been that way for a number of years

6. so perhaps potential net rental income is one part of it, since the capital value of real estate
is a function of, and related to, the annual income that can be attained by renting it out

7. but I think that is only part of it
8. most studios in NYC are bought by singles, mostly under 40
9. proximity to nightlife and transportation are key driviers of their siting decisions

10. so my inference is that buyers are willing to pay a large premium to live near subway
stations, as renters are, and near places where they can meet other and maybe a mate

11. you see evidence of this in downtown Brooklyn, Fort Greene, Clinton Hill, where new Manhat-
tan styple glass bozes were asking $3500 for 1-bds last spring and summer, far more than I
could get subletting my residence 1-bd or for similar boxes on the UES

12. and thank you for your thoughts and your observations

rb,
1 you should really have a rule that each point takes up only 1 line.
2 when you start going into multiple lines, you lose the punchiness.
3 when you lose punchiness, you lose audience.

have you straightened out all of your different posting names?

>columbiacounty
42 minutes ago
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have you straightened out all of your different posting names?

such as?

By the way, we haven't heard much from you lately. Anything new?

You know exactly what I'm talking about.

columbiacounty, these recent problems with John Corzine ... any advice you can give from your experience?

Julia, are you an owner? Did you sell the studio you bought 3 years ago?

Re: Why would an apt owner whine incessantly about higher and higher prices during a major downturn, unless she is a broker or a complete moron who has no knowledge of the marketplace.

Oh my god, the one indesputable fact on this board, the rock, the anchor -- that Julia is a complete moron -- shattered?

Its hard to keep track of people with multiple names. West34, are you also Wbottom?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/26499-osama-bin-laden-confirmed-dead

huntersburg
about 6 months ago

You go julia girl. You are still the most clever fake character on streeteasy, kudos to you, and than you for of course being on the right side of this subject, who would have thought it would be even remotely controversial.

I know West34! We've all assumed the entire time that Julia was just an idiot, but now there's a competing hypothesis, i.e. "Nobody could be that stupid, so she must be a broker shill or owner."

i sold my apartment but unfortunately it was more than 3 years.

Re: West34, are you also Wbottom?

no multiple IDs here. and I thought I had already distinguished myself as the only poster willing to admit to owning property on West 34th

Julia - 3 years ago you said you had just purchased an apt. So when did you sell it?

Getting back to business:

1. the Wall Street Journal reported the other day that the cheapest apt on the market
in Flatiron is a studio located at 27th and Madison asking $345k

2. with the exception of one new listing at 16 West 16th, a gorgeous building, and another
at 201 WEst 21st, there appear to be no apts asking under $400k in Flatiron

3. Chelsea isnt much different other than for locations close to 13th Avenue
4. by contract, there ate loads of doorman studios in nice UES Coops asking under $300,000
5. I'd say difference in price reflects proxinity to nightlife, transportation and maybe Mad. Park

Small UES coops are likely a relative bargain for the astute buyer. Still, an UES studio dweller will be tied to an over-crowded subway line until the 2nd Ave train comes online. And a coop cannot be rented forever. Economic values are not all about nightlife.

"i sold my apartment but unfortunately it was more than 3 years"

Julia - what does that even mean? Is that english?

Does that mean you sold it 3 years ago? But 3 years ago you said you BOUGHT an apartment. Me confused.

Or does it mean you owned for more than 3 years? In which case, you would still own it based on when you said you bought an apt (3 years ago)?

Just curious. Would love to hear your story.