315 Seventh Ave

I saw the penthouse and the 1 bedroom - penthouse is terrific - great light, views, layout, maintenance and fairly well-priced. The 1-bedroom has great light, not so great views, and an inflated price given the size and the fringe location. That studio is a joke.

Buster,

Just wondering...how much do you think the 1-br is worth? It seems on par with the penthouse one, roughly, dollar per square foot, but obviously minus the terrace. But that has a strange layout with the bedroom in the back. Didn't see the studio.

One thing about the 1Br is that it has a small kitchen, which is not great, and the foyer is a bit of dead space (but closets or bookcases could be put in).

The penthousish one is way higher and has real, stunning views and light - I think this really increases the value. The terrace is a great bonus. The bedroom doesn't bother me that much (although others may feel differently) as it could even be opened creatively to allow light and views - the floorplan lends itself well to open loft space, and you have to love the sprawling living room. I think this apartment would be worth far greater if it were in proper chelsea (by the mercantile/atelier buildings on 24th or below - what a difference a few blocks make!) and will appreciate faster than other buildings as Chelsea keeps creeping northward.

The 1 bedroom is on a lower floor, and the surrounding buildings in this part of town are both tall and drab which gives a dark and dreary overcast to the place. The windows help, though. The high ceilings actually make the living room seem even more narrow. The concrete floors are sort of bleak and cold, limiting potential buyers, but that is just a taste issue I suppose. I also thought the appliances were sub par (easy to fix, admittedly, but it seems like a waste) and the kitchen was def small. The square footage is ~700, fyi. I don't think the price is ridiculous - just somewhat inflated - would probably go easily at $799. Even at that price, I prob wouldn't buy it - too many other things that aren't my taste.

Never saw the studio - I looked online and laughed at the asking price.

thanks, Buster. Interesting perspective. I totally agree about the open layout (sprawling living room!) for the penthouse...and the high floor bit. Just not looking at anything over $1M.

As for the sq footage...the listing says 770 sq ft. Aren't condos held to offer exact square footage? Co-ops are usually approximate, so there's always a bit of inflation there.

RE: the prime Chelsea bit...it just seems like eventually (may take 10 years) but it will eventually change too, no? I remember when the Chelsea Mercantile building 10 years ago (whenever it was built), people didn't go above 23rd Street. Now it's creeping into 25th, 26th Street. It's still 5 blocks from Chelsea proper and all the restaurants, etc. Looked at 133 West 22nd Street, but that was much more expensive with a 421-a abatement that is going to make the carrying charges got through the roof by the end. Are you finding anything reasonable nearby, or in prime Chelsea? Inventory seems to be extremely low for a Winter/Spring selling season.

please excuse all the grammatical errors, trying to do several things at once!

I definitely think this part of town will change for the better - as I said, I think apts in this building will appreciate faster than those in Chelsea Proper (mainly because price/square foot will eventually catch up or come close to chelsea proper as the area gets much nicer). Plus, it's a very solid, pre-war building with great bones - can't argue with that. The many windows (and corner unit) are a huge selling point, and even though the view is dreary, in reality, it's not that much worse than many buildings in the flatiron.

I can't say I've fully scoured Chelsea - one of my friends is looking for places, and I've gone to many open houses with him and looked at some stuff online as I may buy another property if valuations drop significantly. It seems to be priced below others in Chelsea Proper but not enough considering the location and other factors. I'm not an expert - I tend to go with my gut instinct. I'm not impulsive about purchasing or afraid of losing something b/c I am too slow or refuse to get into a bidding war where I bid over what I feel is a fair price...

If you are really interested in the apt, I would speak with a good broker and get his/her thoughts on all of your concerns. I've found that brokers are a huge pain in the ass when you are looking for places (I take my time, and they try to push me into something before I am ready), but they can be very helpful once you've found 1-3 apts you really like and need to decide on the best apartment based on your goals. During the transaction, they can gain more insight into a seller's motivations and help negotiate / articulate your concerns more effectively than you can (even if you did take advanced negotiations as an mba and think you're a master of the universe). When I bought my current apt, I did the majority of the leg work myself and brought in a broker at the end. I got a good discount (below comps), and doubt I could have saved more by arguing that I was leaving more money on the table for the seller/seller's broker by representing myself. That tactic is best saved for new condos, imho.

Speaking of which - the condo is a resale, so I don't think the exact square footage is necessary, but I could be wrong... Anyone know the answer to this?

Hi All.
I did a lot of thinking about price per square foot and price for cubic foot b/c the high cielings made the place feel bigger to me. Then I started to think about the comps.

I had seen a co-op at 250 West 27th Street over the weekend which lists at over 1000 sq feet but feels smaller b/c of 315's windows and tall cielings. Now neither has a doorman, but 315 has better light, bones and subway. Plus it's a condo so there's the 25% premium there. The monthly costs on the two apartments are pretty similar. I guess that the 90% financing, clothes washer, higher floor with better light, lower price tag and airier feel are why I'm liking 315 better. (yes I made a list of pros and cons)

Then there's the place at 133 West 28th Street which has cool windows and a designer feel but again those windows in the middle of the block aren't as good because it's a lower floor. Plus the bedroom is a cave.
The two apartments had a similar vibe but I liked the loft feel of the concrete floors at 315. My last place's hardwood floors got all messed up by high heels.

Yeah the kitchen is small but how much cooking am I gonna do? So buster, I'm liking 315. But like everything else I like, this will probably turn into a bidding war. Jimbo, what are you thinking?

Interesting, eldoctore. I'm kind of with Buster re: 315 7th, although I don't think it's hugely overpriced esp compared to other places. I don't like the concrete floors, and it has a McLoft feel to me. 133 West 28th is kind of cool and seems to be well-priced, although I noticed other units in the building all sold at a depressed ppsf. I love the huge living room and it has some authenticity with the woodwork around the windows although I hate the tin ceilings. Not much you can do with the bedroom, but hey, ppsf is below $1k. For some reason, living on a side street, even a so-so one, strikes me as way less depressing than living on that dirty stretch of 7th ave. I'll check out 250 West 27th Street.

totally a McLoft. Great phrase.

Until there's a few Million Mcdollars in my bank account, it's McLoft city.

Re 133 W28th I think the co-op vs condo issue is key.

hey anon 2

I am kind of somewhere between you and Buster...I think there are some serious disvantages to 315 Seventh for the price make me wonder if there's something else better. First, the lobby is in a state, there will be construction on all the elevator banks (sounds like a nightmare) and there's no doorman. Hard to compare most other condos, because they usually come with other perks...doorman, central AC, nice lounge area, nice rooftop, etc. So that all gives me pause. The comps I saw on Streeteasy don't make me feel great about the price either...do you think renovations are worth it? (Check it out). And finally, the thing is after Buster's post, I did the calculations on sq. footage and Buster seems to be right about it coming close to 700 sq. ft. which is about an inflation of 10% of the square footage (and therefore price!) Showed a friend the floor plan and she said I wouldn't have enough closets (one already has washer/dryer) and that I'd need to build them. I agree with Buster that it is really worth $780 to $800K factoring in room for adding closets, etc.,

133 West 28th looks great. Saw the apts on different floors...the Archways are amazing...in short everything in the front room looks fantastic. But the bedroom is depressing and like a large closet. Not sure what can be done about that, since it's in the back. Tin ceilings are also looking like they've had better days. But the sq. footage can't be beat for the price. Also like the private keyed elevator thing...One big question tho, what is being built next door? Also, co-op is small so I assume it's probably more flexible, but that you'd have to ask broker or people in the building.

250 West 27th...looks like a nice building but being next to FIT and skanky stretch of 8th isn't so appealing. Also, the 1000 sq. ft is dark...but that is a lot of footage, if you're looking for space. It has been sitting on market for almost 4 months, so that means that they are probably ripe for a low-ball bid at this point...unless they are just not serious about selling. But they seem to do A LOT of open houses, so if you like it you should find out how flexible the board is if you're wooried about co-op vs. condo thing and how much assets you need to have to get past board.

oops, I meant to address eldoctore

I like the West 28th street place, however there are a lot fewer units in the building than 315 or 250 West 27th. If an elevator breaks or the roof needs to be repaired, the cost is amortized over fewer apartments which can be a huge hit... Personally, I'd take the penthouse at 315 over any of them. Can't beat the light and view for both living and investment purposes. It's an extra ~200k, but this apt will appreciate more %-wise than the McLoft (def nice term, btw) on the lower floor when that stretch of 7th becomes more desirable. Too bad things like "budgets" and "liquidity" and "credit crunch" can kill the party...

Of course you'd take the penthouse. We'd all take the penthouse... if we could.

That penthouse isn't just an extra 200k. It's an extra $350,000! That's too big a jump. However, it's the most expensive on a $/Sq foot basis (deservedly so). I can't really consider it a comp because of the price difference.

Regarding appreciation, that penthouse needs a lot of work. The interior bedroom, bath, lowered cieling etc are gonna be expensive to fix.
But I agree about liking it best for a home if money were more plentiful.

Hehehe - point taken. The penthouse doesn't really need that much work, although those atrocious ceiling fans and lighting fixtures have to go. Just a helpful note - for resale, light and views should be way more valuable than renovations any day of the week...

Buster is right about the resale values...light and views...protected...being the top floor...Also nice bonus not to have people above you. The thing is, this is bad timing anyway for all three, because if rates are poised to drop a little bit more, and the conforming limit raised (is it 729 or 620? I can never get a straight answer) in the coming weeks (it will take time to go through Fannie Mae and on to Lenders), that will make an imminent purchase unwise. I mean, if you're looking at a Jumbo vs. a conforming, that spread can be almost a point! But the price is significantly higher and you'll probably end up with Mansion tax on top of things and a jumbo loan unless you're putting a lot down.

Re: West 28th, I think with any smaller co-op, it's a question of due diligence...finding out when certain projects have been undertaken...when the last time ceiling was inspected/replaced/had work done. Plenty of people live in smaller co-ops...townhouses, etc.