A copy of Manhattan, complete with Rockefeller and Lincoln centers and what passes for the Hudson River, is under construction an hour’s train ride from Beijing. And like New York City in the 1970s, it may need a bailout. Bloomberg News tallied the debt disclosed by all 231 local government financing companies that sold bonds, notes or commercial paper through Dec. 10 this year. The total amounted... [more]
A copy of Manhattan, complete with Rockefeller and Lincoln centers and what passes for the Hudson River, is under construction an hour’s train ride from Beijing. And like New York City in the 1970s, it may need a bailout.
Bloomberg News tallied the debt disclosed by all 231 local government financing companies that sold bonds, notes or commercial paper through Dec. 10 this year. The total amounted to 3.96 trillion yuan ($622 billion), mostly in bank loans, more than the current size of the European bailout fund.
There are 6,576 of such entities across China, according to a June count by the National Audit Office, which put their total debt at 4.97 trillion yuan. That means the 231 borrowers studied by Bloomberg have alone amassed more than three-quarters of the overall debt.
The fact so few of the companies have accumulated that much debt suggests a bigger problem, says Fraser Howie, the Singapore-based managing director of CLSA Asia-Pacific Markets who has written two books on China’s financial system.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-18/china-debts-dwarf-official-data-with-too-big-to-complete-alarms.html[less]
Response by Brooks2
over 14 years ago
Posts: 2970
Member since: Aug 2011
See the Chinese are buying in Manhattan..... the copied one.. but both are going down
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Response by malthus
over 14 years ago
Posts: 1333
Member since: Feb 2009
Just read that new home prices in Beijing fell 35% in November month over month. Not year over year. Since October.
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Response by jason10006
over 14 years ago
Posts: 5257
Member since: Jan 2009
"China November Home Prices Post Worse Performance This Year...
New home prices in China's four major cities of Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and Guangzhou each retreated 0.3 percent from October..."
Not THIRTY percent. Three tenths of one percent. Get new glasses.
"Home prices will fall further as the government's tightening continues," said Jinsong Du, a Hong Kong-based property analyst for Credit Suisse Group AG. "We'll see more small developers file for bankruptcy or sell off their assets next year."
November contract sales of China Vanke Co., the country's biggest developer, dropped 36 percent from last year, while those by Poly Real Estate Group Co., the second largest, fell 28 percent.
Top of the Market- sound familiar..... ready to topple
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Response by Riversider
over 14 years ago
Posts: 13573
Member since: Apr 2009
Is is interesting to see all the wasted government spending in China. Perhaps a lesson for the United States when it proclaims it can invest dollars more wisely than the private market? The Soviet Union invested huge sums with seemingly good results until the 1970's...
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Response by huntersburg
over 14 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
Yes, we can learn about the government from China and the Soviet Union.
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Response by caonima
over 14 years ago
Posts: 815
Member since: Apr 2010
book2, the real manhattan here is not really going down
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Response by Riversider
over 14 years ago
Posts: 13573
Member since: Apr 2009
For years analysts have warned of a looming real estate bubble in China, but the predicted downturn, the bursting of that bubble, never occurred -- that is, until now. In a telling scene two months ago, Shanghai property developers started slashing prices on their latest luxury condos by up to one-third. Crowds of owners who had recently bought apartments at full price converged on sales offices throughout the city, demanding refunds. Some angry investors went on a rampage, breaking windows and smashing showrooms.
Shanghai homeowners are hardly the only ones getting nervous. Sudden, steep price reductions are upending real estate markets across China. According to the property agency Homelink, new home prices in Beijing dropped 35 percent in November alone. And the free fall may continue for some time. Centaline, another leading property agency, estimates that developers have built up 22 months' worth of unsold inventory in Beijing and 21 months' worth in Shanghai. Everyone from local landowners to Chinese speculators and international investors are now worrying that these discounts indicate that "the biggest bubble of the century," as it was called earlier this year, has just popped, with serious consequences not only for one of the world's most promising economies -- but internationally as well.
In a few cities, such as coastal Wenzhou and coal-rich Ordos, the collapse in property prices has sparked a full-blown credit crisis, with reports of ruined businessmen leaping off building rooftops; some are fleeing the country. The central bank's decision on December 5 to lower the reserve requirement ratio for the first time in three years signaled a broader move to pump money into the economy. Beijing has directed banks in Wenzhou to extend emergency loans to troubled borrowers.
@Jason, see below and about a dozen other sources on google all saying the same. I can't tell you it is correct, but it is being widely reported. I don't need glasses but you might need a refresher on using google.
"It is hard to obtain good data in China, but something is wrong when the country's Homelink property website can report that new home prices in Beijing fell 35pc in November from the month before. If this is remotely true, the calibrated soft-landing intended by Chinese authorities has gone badly wrong and risks spinning out of control."
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Response by Brooks2
over 14 years ago
Posts: 2970
Member since: Aug 2011
he real manhattan here is not really going down
sure it is. maybe not as much but it is certainly going down.
See the Chinese are buying in Manhattan..... the copied one.. but both are going down
Just read that new home prices in Beijing fell 35% in November month over month. Not year over year. Since October.
"China November Home Prices Post Worse Performance This Year...
New home prices in China's four major cities of Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen and Guangzhou each retreated 0.3 percent from October..."
Not THIRTY percent. Three tenths of one percent. Get new glasses.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/12/19/bloomberg_articlesLWFZTZ0UQVI9.DTL#ixzz1h1WErMbe
"Home prices will fall further as the government's tightening continues," said Jinsong Du, a Hong Kong-based property analyst for Credit Suisse Group AG. "We'll see more small developers file for bankruptcy or sell off their assets next year."
November contract sales of China Vanke Co., the country's biggest developer, dropped 36 percent from last year, while those by Poly Real Estate Group Co., the second largest, fell 28 percent.
Top of the Market- sound familiar..... ready to topple
Is is interesting to see all the wasted government spending in China. Perhaps a lesson for the United States when it proclaims it can invest dollars more wisely than the private market? The Soviet Union invested huge sums with seemingly good results until the 1970's...
Yes, we can learn about the government from China and the Soviet Union.
book2, the real manhattan here is not really going down
For years analysts have warned of a looming real estate bubble in China, but the predicted downturn, the bursting of that bubble, never occurred -- that is, until now. In a telling scene two months ago, Shanghai property developers started slashing prices on their latest luxury condos by up to one-third. Crowds of owners who had recently bought apartments at full price converged on sales offices throughout the city, demanding refunds. Some angry investors went on a rampage, breaking windows and smashing showrooms.
Shanghai homeowners are hardly the only ones getting nervous. Sudden, steep price reductions are upending real estate markets across China. According to the property agency Homelink, new home prices in Beijing dropped 35 percent in November alone. And the free fall may continue for some time. Centaline, another leading property agency, estimates that developers have built up 22 months' worth of unsold inventory in Beijing and 21 months' worth in Shanghai. Everyone from local landowners to Chinese speculators and international investors are now worrying that these discounts indicate that "the biggest bubble of the century," as it was called earlier this year, has just popped, with serious consequences not only for one of the world's most promising economies -- but internationally as well.
In a few cities, such as coastal Wenzhou and coal-rich Ordos, the collapse in property prices has sparked a full-blown credit crisis, with reports of ruined businessmen leaping off building rooftops; some are fleeing the country. The central bank's decision on December 5 to lower the reserve requirement ratio for the first time in three years signaled a broader move to pump money into the economy. Beijing has directed banks in Wenzhou to extend emergency loans to troubled borrowers.
http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/136963/patrick-chovanec/chinas-real-estate-bubble-may-have-just-popped#
@Jason, see below and about a dozen other sources on google all saying the same. I can't tell you it is correct, but it is being widely reported. I don't need glasses but you might need a refresher on using google.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/8957289/Chinas-epic-hangover-begins.html
"It is hard to obtain good data in China, but something is wrong when the country's Homelink property website can report that new home prices in Beijing fell 35pc in November from the month before. If this is remotely true, the calibrated soft-landing intended by Chinese authorities has gone badly wrong and risks spinning out of control."
he real manhattan here is not really going down
sure it is. maybe not as much but it is certainly going down.