Weekend Open House Anecdotes 2-23 and 2-24

133 west 28th street seemed crowded. Brokers said seller not budging in price. On the mkt for about a month.

420 west 25th had some people there and said they recieved applications. I thought the new construction had ridiculously low ceilings. The whole project is too far west

Didn't have an open house this weekend. There are 5 apartments for sale in my building, usually each having an open house. What's a buyer to think?

12 people ahead of me at a loft in Tribeca; 3 more came in while I was there; nice sunny weekend seemed like there were alot of "lookers"

Kary --- I think i saw apts in your building. On St. Nicholas? The apts. are nice, but the location is a bit off-putting for many people. And the apts. are not TRUE 2 bedrooms, 3 bedrooms. But they're nice.

Went to an open houhse (just for curiosity) at 133 West 4th (called The Parsonage). Didn't think the layout or use of space was wise, the finishes were about a B/B+, thought the pricing was too aggressive. About 4/5 other couples were there when I was, as I was leaving two more were entering, so it seemed to be having decent traffic.

Went to 3 at 60 East 9th Street - all way overpriced based on past sales in the building. Also, the building felt a bit like a nursing home.

Went to a few in Chelsea. High prices but steady traffic. A lot of interest but saw no bidders, offers, etc. but hard to assess.

This weekend I saw nervousness in brokers. Haven't noticed it before.

Why do you think they were nervous? Explain.

I'm giving up trying to detect trends for a couple of weeks. I have no idea. Open houses were busy in GV/Chelsea. But apts were just too expensive I kept feeling. The idea of paying a price equal to top of the market sales a few months ago just doesn't seem wise right now. And that sense of things seems shared by a growing number of people I overhear or talk to in the elevators at these open houses. There's a lot of thinking like: "Maybe the views and light in my apt suck and the layout is weird and not a real 2-bedroom at all and actually kind of cramped and unworkable, and the bathrooms open right into the middle of the rooms so you see the toilets from every angle in the apt., but an apt somewhere else in the building got $1500 sq/ft, so that's what I'm going to ask, too."

Riding the elevators up and down with other people to visit open houses is where you pick up all the useful trend data you need. I spoke to so many frustrated buyers this weekend...not frustrated by a lack of options, but frustrated by ridiculous seller expectations. Brokers, for their part, keep pricing stuff too high but will happily pull you aside and tell you in a very low key manner that the unit is stale and the seller will entertain lower bids. So there's that.

I saw good sized crowds at properties of the "too good to be true" variety, i.e. attractive price, okay location, pics look okay via the brokers' magic "fish eye" camera, but a huge disappointment in actual fact. Crowds were much thinner up-market at places that were fully priced and/or overpriced.

One broker actually told me that the seller had turned down a bid several months ago that is actually higher than today's asking price! Greedy, greedy. But it illustrates the point that things are coming down, buyers are being patient, and it's only a matter of time before sellers acknowledge the fact that the clearing price of apartments in prime Manhattan is not where they think it is!

For the value, you can't beat my apartment. The neighborhood wasn't off for Duke Ellington (who has a plaque on the building across the street from mine). Mickey Mantel lived around the corner. There is a beautiful park (Edgecomb) which has a brand new playground. This is where the wealthy wanted to be back in the 30s, 40s and 50s.

St. Nicholas Avenue has a great history. Jumel Mansion by W162 is the home where George Washington spent lots of time. Everything is withing walking distance. Bit by bit it is being landedmarked.

Kary, enough with the advertising. Glad you love your neighborhood so much, but this is not what the boards here are for.

Right, this is the second or third post I've seen about your apartment. Please stop marketing it in individual topics. Thanks.

I am most interested in hearing more about Open House. Who is showing up? Percentage of lookers? Brokers? Buyers? What is exciting these attendees most? What is rattling them? Are the units staying on the market longer in your opinion. How receptive are Open Houses to agents who want to preview? What is the general attitude of previews?

thanks

I agree with east_cider. The asking prices for many properties on the market are just not so reasonable. New and old condos are basically asking the same $/sf, regardless of the layout and view. I acknowledged today buyers are more wise and patient. They will pay only for what they really see.

Here's what I've found infuriating. Some apts are dumps in need of serious renovation (floors need replacing, new kitchen, bath, sometimes reconfiguring to some extent to correct poor prior design). But many owners of such apts believe they can get the same price sq/ft as the highest sales in the building despite the crappy condition and amount of $ it would take to fix it all, AND despite all the troubling economic indicators that come out every week lately. It comes across as greedy.

Then there are the "renovated" "mint" apts. And SO many are awful! In many of those, sellers did quick fixes: flimsy home depot style kitchens, a new vanity in the bath, reglazed (not new!) tub, new tile laid over old tile in bath, laminate flooring or cheaper quality hardwoods that the buyer would never have chosen themselves, mid-level appliances that are new but ugly. Closets and walls have 1000 coats of paint on them, and the overall taste level of the "improvements" is horrid--very suburban. Basically finishes that appeal to people with little discriminated taste. These sellers then try to charge a premium on their apts to recover 200% or even much more on the lousy renovations. For these properties, what is a buyer to do? Pay top dollar for renovations the buyer will just hate and want to rip out and have to spend even more money on? Then the apt can't be resold unless the market increases sharply because the sale price already was pegged to a renovated place--re-renovating costs can't be recovered. It's just frustrating.

kylewest, I couldn't agree more. It's like you have three choices: pay a ridiculous price psf for new space, hold your nose and buy someone's crappy renovations for a ridiculous price psf, or buy a "white box" that looks like a post college rental for a ridiculous price psf. Sellers are all trying to capture the high water mark with little regard for where the market actually is. I'm happy to sit down and negotiate, but why bother when the party across the table is not even in the ballpark?

ADVICE TO SELLERS: Give it up with the "aspirational" asking prices and then we can talk.

This is fascinating to read. I am actively in the market but not seeing anything worth buying. Kylewest is so right about the condition of many apartments I've been shown. Depressing. I think I am going to rent longer and keep looking.

Maybe sellers are holding tight to these aspirational valuations since prices haven't yet dropped and inventory is still fairly low. They may be singing a different tune if inventory picks up in the spring, though...

Wife and I went to 10+ open houses this Sunday in Madison Park North (mostly for fun since we arent selling our place or looking for another but are curious to see what is out there)area with the following observations:

1) New construction: the two sales office we stayed around in were packed and we walked out of two other sales offices b/c it wasnt worth waiting since we arent real buyers (the new 29th street condo + one other)

2) prewar conversions (15e26th + 76 Mad I think)were mobbed also

3) the post war (more Murray Hill if you ask me) standard 2/3 bedroom coops didnt seem active even though the list seemed pretty full but I always assume that is broker BS

I went to a few in my neighborhood in FiDi out of curiosity. Very busy. A good sign, I hope!!

My experience is w/ open houses on the UWS. At 2/4 of the open houses I went to yesterday, the broker immediately asked whether I want the apartment. I've been going to quite a few open houses and no one has ever been interested in immediate feedback. The week before several brokers asked ME what the market was like. Why in the world would they ask me? They are the professional. That's why I'm wondering if some brokers are getting nervous about moving their overpriced property.

I sold my place 30 minutes ago for $20K over asking. I don't think we're looking at a down year for Manhattan real estate, unless there are more layoffs. Have you seen any?

In the seaport area.

Bluerain, congratulations on the sale. Do you feel like your asking price was within the range of the current market or was it a little bit aspirational? (it's okay to share, we're all anonymous here)

It was definitely within the current market. It sold, believe it or not, with only one open house. I had two bidders, and that drove the price higher than the ask. It was unrenovated.

I felt like I left some money on the table actually, but the fact that I have a signed contract in my hand after only 10 days is rather amazing, I think.

Thanks for the info. You sound like one of the "good sellers" out there who are willing to operate in the realm of realistic prices. If only all the others would follow your lead!

But bluerain feels like he left money on the table . . . and maybe he did . . . . so I'm not sure this anecdote proves much of anything except that maybe his broker underpriced the apartment . . . .
People on this thread seem to want prices lower so that they can buy . . . but that's being greedy, too, isn't it?

I think the market is a bit tricky now for everyone . . .

Went to a few on UWS. Surprisingly few were held. Saw UNRENOVATED apartments with a lot of interest and actually witnessed one offer. Apartments with "good bones" being the most popular. I think buyers want to renovate according to their own tastes. Let's not forget that some people actually want to live in the places they buy. Not everyone is a flipper, although it's hard to imagine from reading this board.

Went to a few on UWS. Surprisingly few were held. Saw UNRENOVATED apartments with a lot of interest and actually witnessed one offer. Apartments with "good bones" being the most popular. I think buyers want to renovate according to their own tastes. Let's not forget that some people actually want to live in the places they buy. Not everyone is a flipper, although it's hard to imagine from reading this board.

Open house reports for today, March 2nd, please.

i went to 5 total in the east village and chelsea - it seemed that there were many people dropping in - but the brokers seemed too eager - places still seem to be overpriced, i was surprised that 125 east 4th street (apt 27) had so many people it was difficult to move around. the apt was nicely renovated, but the layout was not so well - they are calling it a 3 bedroom; given that its a 5 flight walk up - no doorman etc, i would be surprised if this went for 799. in any case, it was busy and there were alot of interested people

Went to see three units today 3/2/08 -

1.) 2 Cornelia Street, $2.995MM (reduced from $3.3MM). Pre-war building, ugly through wall A/C, poor layout due to awkard building shape (like Flatiron building), advertised as 3 bedroom, but only one (maybe two) of the bedrooms are really useful as such, needs a significant amount of renovation (kitchen and bathrooms are total gut jobs). Interestingly, I thought the best aspect of this place would be its views and light as it's a very tall building within a landmarked Village location. But due to the fact that it is a pre-war, the windows are rather small and start rather high off the floor, diminishing rather than accentuating this feature. The dining/living area are okay, but read much larger in the brokers online advert than they appear to be in real life. Finally, the common areas and common lighting are depressing and feel like bad Soviet-era architecture. All in all, a very poor candidate for a number of reasons, and regardless of the current market vagaries, I would expect this to be chopped repeatedly and significantly before anyone bites. When we arrived, one couple was already kicking the tires, and they were still there when we left.

2.) I viewed two units in the new condo build known as 1 Seventh Avenue. Interestingly, yet another obliquely shaped building like the previous entry due to the lot shape. Given the odd triangular shape the architects had to work with, I have to say that they did as good a job as possible with flow, maximizing space, and taking advantage of every square inch to shoehorn in as much as they could. The finishes are a B+/A- (not an 'A,' as the kitchen only has upscale Miele appliances, the baths have mosaic glass tile which are okay but I don't happen to love lots of grout, and the walnut floors, while nice, are a high quality pre-engineered product but not true solid hardwood). A drawback in the 4th floor unit currently on offer are two support poles in the middle of the dining/living room areas that create a (minor) furniture layout problem. The second bedroom is quite small, and the bath to the second bedroom is neither adjacent nor contiguous. There are, however, many thoughtful and well designed touches, and they just might get their full ask for this unit at $1.995MM, or close to it.

We also viewed the PH triplex, which is not on the market yet and consists of 2,100 s.f. of interior and 900 s.f. of exterior space, and is configured as a 3bed/3-1/2 bath. The bottom floor of the PH holds three bedrooms, three baths, and a small common area with a wet bar (which seems a bit misplaced to me). In truth the third bedroom is so very, very tiny (even though it has its own attached bath) as to be useless for this application. The other two bedrooms are nicely sized (very nice master) but again, the second bedroom does not have an ensuite or contiguous bathroom. Going up the nicely designed staircase to the next floor we see the kitchen, dining, and living areas, a powder room, and a small wrap terrace. The kitchen and dining areas are quite fine, but due to the oblique angles, furniture layout will be quite challenging, requiring a cat-scan, tweezers, electron microscopy, and the moon in Gemini. The majority of the terrace on this level is only about 3 feet deep, meaning useful only for planting, but there is a smallish corner terrace area than can comfortably contain a couple of chaise, a table, and umbrella. One flight up on the roof is an additional deck, which is very useful and can accomodate a nice sized group. One nice feature here is that every floor in the PH, including the roof deck, is accessible by elevator, meaning no interior stairs need be built from the kitchen/dining floor up to the roof terrace. A definite boon for entertaining - just role whatever you need on a cart into the elevator, hit 'roof,' and roll the cart right out to your guests. The light throughout is very lovely, but the veiws are a bit nondescript. At $4.4MM, however, I think that this could be a challenge. But true penthouses with outdoor space have their own pricing logic and internal gravity that doesn't apply to most other market sectors, so this could also surprise me and sell rather quickly at full ask.

Oh, sorry - when we arived at 1 Seventh we were the only ones there, but one other couple came up as we were finishing....

Went to 111 4th Avenue today - saw 2 apartments. There were about 5 interested parties walking into the apts, and 5 disappointed parties walking out! Both were priced at a premium, yet the apts in the building typically sell at below average valuations. Plus, these places were in need of renovations - really bad bathrooms and kitchens.

Only one today, 400 East 14th St. (The Crossings condo). 8 signatures on the sign-in sheet about 1:30 in. Location sucks (corner 1st Ave and 14th) except of course for train proximity. Both sets of windows face an airshaft and the square footage feels at least 10% overstated. I was curious about the roofdeck. The decking is nice and it's pretty big, but you walk up ugly stairs to get to it, the fence and low view make it feel like a prison yard, and the vents make a lot of noise. At almost $1100 per CLAIMED sf it's a total POS.

newbie08, 124 East 4th St. was featured in Curbed's Weekend Open House Tour, which may have accounted for some of the traffic. As someone there pointed out, a comparable unit went for over 25% less in March of 07. I hope people are paying attention.

Newbie08: 100% agree with tenemental. The Curbed piece probably attracted all the people. I went to this place a 3 because I liked it too but the 6th floor walk up was the deal breaker in the end, in addition to the 200K overpriced aspect. You can't even install laundry in the apartment. OH have been steady there (although the last time I went a few weeks ago, it was quieter). I can't imagine any lender would back a loan for this amount, considering the slightly larger place next door went for 580K a year ago.

anon5 - agreed on 111 4th. I would say they are easily $100k overpriced.