Can landlord keep my sec dep?

you are going overseas, the landlord did not behave appropriately, why not live out your deposit....

So you were renting an apartment after your lease terminated and were on a month to month? Or you just had the original lease and your terminating early?

it is a lot of money... i paid more rent than what was in the lease so that i can have a termination option. Also technically the new tenant who signed the lease and walked out should be on the hook now as our lease technically was assigned.

we were renting after lease had terminated, but the original lease had a clause which said tenant had an option to renew for say $x. If the tenant exercised that option all terms of original lease would continue. When we discussed renewal, landlord wanted say $x+10%. We agreed if we could go month to month, this renewal is not documented as nothing was signed but we paid $x+10%. Now I am unclear if original lease still holds because nothing is documented for the new year.

I am not trying to be a pain, but you keep introducing new facts on top of the convoluted ones (no disrespect).

Let's keep this simple, are you under a written lease?

i understand...it is quite convoluted. That is what i am trying to figure out is am i under a written lease. I signed a lease Aug 2010-jul 2011. That lease has an option to renew provision which says ...tenant has option to renew from aug 2011-jul2012 for $x and if exercised then all provisions of the original lease carry forward.

issue is we did not renew for $x. We were stupid and had a verbal discussion and agreed to $x+10% for going month to month. Nothing is signed for the renewal documenting $x+10%.

Now am i under written lease? I think not, owner thinks we are.

It seems pretty clear that no new lease was signed, they started paying the higher rent anyway out of the kindness of their hearts I guess.

The question is, with no lease, can they leave and get their security deposit back, given that they gave 45 days notice.

Seems to me this is a no brainer.

Keep in mind I never read your lease:

It seems now (WITH DATES etc.) that you are NOT under a written lease and are in a month-to-month tenancy.

If seems that you never came to an agreement or exercised the option, you just kept paying rent (for some weird reason) at a higher price. There seems to be no lease in this fact pattern.

I believe (assuming you didn't damage the apartment and paid the rent) you "SHOULD" get back the rent.

Below is how to terminate your lease in a month-to-month tenancy.

§ 232-a. Notice to terminate monthly tenancy or tenancy from month to
month in the city of New York. No monthly tenant, or tenant from month
to month, shall hereafter be removed from any lands or buildings in the
city of New York on the grounds of holding over his term unless at least
thirty days before the expiration of the term the landlord or his agent
serve upon the tenant, in the same manner in which a notice of petition
in summary proceedings is now allowed to be served by law, a notice in
writing to the effect that the landlord elects to terminate the tenancy
and that unless the tenant removes from such premises on the day on
which his term expires the landlord will commence summary proceedings
under the statute to remove such tenant therefrom.

30 day notice for month to month tenant. you were nice enough to find a replacement, who knows why. don't pay the last month and take pictures/video to prove you left the dwelling in good condition.

being overseas, the landlord can easily "forget" to send you the money.

this is why I've never paid my last month's rent - I've had the landlord apply my security deposit to it instead. because you never know....

i found a replacement because the landlord keeps telling me that we are under the original lease because we continued to stay and thereby exercised the option to renew.

then why did you pay a higher rent than was in the renewal clause? because you thought that would mean you would get something you asked for if you did? makes no sense to me. consult a lawyer.

no signed lease means month to month tenant.

the landlord can say that money is falling from the sky, doesn't mean it's true.

The landlord can't have it both ways. Either you renewed the original lease, in which case you've overpaid a lot and he probably owes you a refund; or you agreed on the terms of a new month-to-month lease verbally, in which case you only need to provide him with 30 days notice to terminate.

we paid the higher rent because that is what we discussed and asked for termination right. I never heard back so wrongly assumed we are all set. I don't want to fight with the owner if it could be avoided, so i just wanted to do everything i can to make this easy and hence found a replacement.
why does it not make sense? it is a condo rental so i am dealing with an individual not a management company.

it makes no sense to me because you should get everything in writing when dealing with a landlord or tenant. Now you have landlord saying one thing and you saying another. That's all I meant.

If you leave with 4 months left on this supposed lease, what makes you think the landlord wont want the 4 months in rent?

I say try to work it out with the landlord, maybe he/she is reasonable, but be prepared if they are not.

I am trying to work it out with the landlord, just wanted to understand whether there is an implied lease. Of late the landlords tone has suddenly changed to suggest there is 4 months rent coming from us. I understand we made an error in not getting it written.

Actually the landlord made an error in not getting a lease in writing. You made the error in paying too much for unknown reasons. You are a month to month tenant and can move out with 30 days notice.

If you had a typical original lease:

- The lease had a term period described at the top of it that has now finished.
- The option to renew had a required notice date that has passed.
- All notices are required to be in writing, delivered to the indicated address.

A "renewal" indicates a new lease to be signed, with new dates and terms. If there is no such doc, no one in their right mind would claim you are under a lease. Your LL is claiming you are under a lease. You have been forewarned.

36. YOUR OPTION T0 RENEW [DELETE IF INAPPLICABLEJ

A. You shall have the right to extend the term of this Lease for year(s) commencing _
and ending on_________ , (the “Extension Term') provided: (i) You give Owner notice (the “Extension Notice"), in the manner required under this Lease. of your election to extend the term of this Lease; (ii) the Election Notice must be given Owner at least days prior to the ending date of this Lease stated in Article 2; and (iii) You may not be in default of any provisions of the Lease when the Extension Notice is given and on the commencement date of the Extension Term. lf You fail to send the Extension Notice to Owner by the date specified herein, this Article 36 shall be of no further force and effect.

B. The monthly rent payable by You during the Extension Term shall be ________ .

C. All provisions of this Lease, except as modified by this Article 36, shall remain in full force and effect during the Extension Term.

Above is the provision. Since I never gave notice in the manner specified, only had email back and forth about negotiating rent, this provision should become invalid. In anycase, the rent we subsequently kept paying is also higher than what was in clause B.

uptowngal
about 20 hours ago
ignore this person
report abuse this is why I've never paid my last month's rent - I've had the landlord apply my security deposit to it instead. because you never know....

love whenever I read this. it must make renters feel macho, though in 9.9/10 cases is bullshit because everyone knows what happens if you don't pay the last months rent. perhaps it is different "uptown"

So you're good, a month-to-month tenant.

IMO, stop arguing with the idiot and move on with your life. Expect him/her to keep the deposit if given the chance. Legally, he/she cannot. But obviously he/she has a poor understanding / respect for the law & contracts. And you'll be in another country.

My guess is that the owner is planning on selling and is trying to squeeze you because you seem to want to do the right thing. I am a big believer in being honest & forthright in dealings & giving people the benefit of the doubt, but if someone is being an azzhole your best bet is to be an even bigger azzhole back.

I am going to try to cut to the chase here. (a) You can't renew a lease, without a new writing evidencing the renewal; (b) even if you could, you are not paying the renewal rent, but for some crazy reason a higher rent, so you couldn't have renewed the old lease (c) your landlord duped you into paying more than your renewal rent last time, and now s/he is trying to dupe you again, (d) you have and had no obligation to find another tenant to assume your lease because there is nothing to assume, (e) don't pay your last month's rent, and stop talking negotiating with your landlord because s/he is not being honest.

You did not sign a new lease. You were a month-to-month tenant. You gave 45 days notice and vacated. The new tenant did not assume your lease because you did not have a lease to assume. You are entitled to have your security deposit back. Send a letter notifying landlord of these facts and if that if you don't receive security deposit back within 30 days you will file in small claims court.

unfortunately, he/she will not file with small claims because of moving oversees. your LL is an ass

The LL claims that you owe 4 months rent; you'd like to get your security deposit back. How do you think this is going to end? You've created a real effing mess here. I think you'll be lucky if you only lose your deposit. Unless your LL suddenly starts acting reasonable, you might need an attorney & then you'll really start losing money. Hopefully you've learned something here so that something like this doesn't happen again. Good luck & let us know what happens.