New apartment... need (4) THROUGH WALL Air Conditioners... Let me preface -- I am an AC geek -- but my expertise stops cold (no pun intended) at "through wall" -- which I have zero experience with. Issue #1: my 3 bedrooms are between 135 and 155 sq feet -- well below the effective room size for the smallest Friedrich (7800 btu) -- in fact, all the AC size calculators suggest that for a 150 sq ft... [more]
New apartment... need (4) THROUGH WALL Air Conditioners...
Let me preface -- I am an AC geek -- but my expertise stops cold (no pun intended) at "through wall" -- which I have zero experience with.
Issue #1: my 3 bedrooms are between 135 and 155 sq feet -- well below the effective room size for the smallest Friedrich (7800 btu) -- in fact, all the AC size calculators suggest that for a 150 sq ft room, even if a window faces west or south, max size should not exceed 5000 btu. All the experts say that an AC that is too large will NOT remove the humidity, and will constantly be cycling the compressor. As a window AC junkie, I know that the correct size for the room makes for better performance. SO WHY ON EARTH are there a zillion NYC apartments with sub-150 sq ft bedrooms with through-wall AC sleeves -- considering the appropriate AC is 4600 btu, and nobody makes anything close to that small?
GE makes a 6400 btu unit [GE AJCQ06LCD] but GE's reputation is not the quietest units (at least in window mount). But could that have changed? Will the GE through-wall be a best choice for my bedrooms?
What do most people with 150 sq ft bedrooms do for building-required through-walls? Do you really run Friedrich 7800 btu or more? But your room will cool without removing the humidity -- why would you spend good $$ for an AC that will not make your room most comfortable?
Issue #2: My living/dining/kitchen is an open floorplan, approx 500 sq ft of floor, serviced by one through-wall unit. The math suggests ~13,000 btu -- and there is a 230v plug wired. But the AC will be within 8 feet of the TV, so once again, NOISE LEVEL will be crucial. Friedrich does not provide noise level specs... so the choice has to be based on anecdotal research. :-(
SO what through wall unit do you own (or have personal experience with) in the 13,000 btu range -- and how quiet is it?
I visited 3 showrooms today, and the "salespeople" had zero product knowledge. One guy actually said, "this one is more expensive, so it must be better".
I'm gonna buy a month of consumer reports online, since last time I trusted a CR review, it was 1000% on the money. But through-wall AC units are a different beast than window units, and reviews are not always related.
I'm seeking real-world, "what did you do, and why" answers for both questions...
Thanks for your input.
88
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Response by columbiacounty
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
Be aware of two facts that I wish I had known about thru the wall.
The difference in height I.e. below the windows vs in the windows makes a difference.
Much worse is if you have to be flush with outside wall. If so, huge reduction in air flow because you ony have one surface vs five.
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Response by fsbo88
over 13 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Jan 2012
>> The difference in height I.e. below the windows vs in the windows makes a difference.
Yes. Who designed these things? 4th grade science = heat rises -- so why put your cooling unit close to the floor? Not to mention closing off any opportunity to put anything on the wall. Can't put a low bookcase, or anything....
SO does this mean the BTU calculators are wrong?
>> if you have to be flush with outside wall. If so, huge reduction in air flow
Airflow, as in amount of air that it will move? Is this related to noise (less airflow = more fan noise?)
Thanks for the comments.
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Response by columbiacounty
over 13 years ago
Posts: 12708
Member since: Jan 2009
one of the many compromises one has to make with life in manhattan. friedich wall master attempts to improve the situation somewhat by angling the vents to blow the air upwards rather than horizontally but as you point out it falls rapidly. design i think it an outgrowth of window units and the difficulty of supporting higher installations (back when air conditioners were hulking monsters) as well as wiring them.
i don't know the math but i think it is safe to consider that btu calculators are going to be off based on the lower position just as they often say within the calculator that you have to adjust for exposure and amount of direct sunlight.
the outside flush mount reduces the amount of surface area for heat exchange. consider what the outdoor unit looks like on a split system or central air. giant fan with air vents on five surfaces to maximize the dissipation of heat. now think about how that unit would function if you closed off the four sides and just left the top open.
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Response by fsbo88
over 13 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Jan 2012
SO --- does anyone have real-world comments re: current crop of "low btu" units, such as
GE J AJCQ06LCD 6400 btu
GE J AJCQ08ACD 8000 btu
Friedrich Uni-Fit 8000 btu
Frigidaire FRA086HT1 8000 btu
Friedrich WallMaster WS08C10 7800 btu
(all are about the same price, except the WallMaster)
Call Ken at Connecticut PTAC. Did our through the wall combo unit.
203-772-9863.
If you just need to replace simple existing A/C units try PC Richard for pricing and delivery. Used them for two units and no issues.
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Response by raddoc
over 13 years ago
Posts: 166
Member since: Jun 2008
BTW I used American made Friedrich units in all 3 spots. Check on the chassis for country of manufacture before purchasing.
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Response by fsbo88
over 13 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Jan 2012
Are you using an 8000 btu unit in a 130 sq ft bedroom?
Is this a concern? Is this desired?
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Response by ab_11218
over 13 years ago
Posts: 2017
Member since: May 2009
i used 7000 btu frigidaire for west facing 130 sq ft bedrooms and they did a good job. i had a GE 12000 BTU at the east facing living/dining of 360 sq ft and it wasn't enough. when they do the math for the size of the room, they do not consider that the brick warms by august and radiates additional heat vs june. this causes your AC not to cool as well. i would go with the 14000 BTU frigidaire or something bigger for the open area that you have. unless you are purchasing a Haier, you will be fine with the noise.
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Response by fsbo88
over 13 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Jan 2012
Thanks to all -- failed to buy ACs before last week's heat! Doing it now...
I called Friedrich for clarification re: too many BTUs for small room... Friedrich rep told me that a 7800 BTU unit for 135 sq ft room is NOT appropriate, and the unit for this room should be 5000 or less. She said that the problem is the de-humidifier will not get a chance to work. So now I am thoroughly confused.
But zillions of new yorkers have wallmaster 7800 BTU in their 150 sq ft bedrooms -- so is everyone marching out of step all together?
I also have another question about noise levels -- those of you with wallmasters -- are you satisfied with the noise level? Do you wish it was less? I had previously owned a Sharp window unit that was QUIET - "library quiet" - and it really was. Very pleasant to sleep in the room when it was running on low fan. You hardly knew it was on. THAT is what I am looking for. Will the wallmaster make me happy?
I need a 230volt for the living room, and I want the quietest unit made.
I tested a Frigidaire unit (10k btu) and the noise level of low fan vs. high fan was not all that much different. Low fan sounded loud to me.
ab_11218 - thanks for the brick radiating concept... yes, makes sense. So the 7000 btu unit in your bedrooms didn't constantly cycle on/off?
AC geeks, I know you're out there. Please share your real world data. Thanks!
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Response by fsbo88
over 13 years ago
Posts: 76
Member since: Jan 2012
I bought (3) 8000 btu Friedrich Wallmasters for the bedrooms. They aren't exactly quiet. Hmm...
Consumer Reports doesn't review through-wall.
LG seems to score well on CR. And Friedrich high-end units are not reviewed. Great.
Bottom line: should I get a 14,000 wallmaster or will another brand (LG, Frigidaire?) be quieter at low fan setting?
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Response by rep
over 12 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Sep 2013
what did you end up going with? I have the same issue--through the wall sleeve, 5,000 BTU recommended, stuck with the 8,000 range.
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Response by FormerRenter
over 10 years ago
Posts: 87
Member since: Dec 2010
Hi All, I'm reviving this after almost 2 years, as I'm now faced with a similar dilemma. I have a typical cookie cutter 2BR in a 60's white brick building. The living space is the typical "L" shaped living room; so it's a living room that "bends" into a dining alcove that then "backs into" the galley kitchen. All said, even though there is a wall separating the galley kitchen from the living room, the entire space is probably about 500 - 600 square feet. Like a lot of these buildings, the only option is a Friedrich thru-wall unit. And I'm having to choose between a 12,000 and a 15,000 BTU unit.
My current A/C is broken (it was the legacy A/C when I moved in so I don't know how it performed). So, for the moment, I'm using an 8,000 BTU unit in the adjacent bedroom (which has a movable wall that opens into the 500 - 600 sf living space - and the entire apartment is nice and cool). But, so far it's been a fairly cool summer, and the notion of using an 8,000 BTU unit, from an adjacent room no less, would go very much against all of the formulas for calculating the appropriate A/C size. My concern about getting the 12,000 unit is that there will be times when it will not be sufficient. So I'm wondering if there's a downside to getting the 15,000 BTU unit, particularly whether it would compromise the de-humidifying function.
My second question is whether it would make sense to replace the 8,000 BTU unit in that bedroom (it works well but is falling apart) with the 10,000 BTU unit because at 10,000 BTU on moderate, i.e., not-too-hot, summer days, I would just run THAT unit instead of the larger one in the living space. The only downside might be that 10, 000 might be too much when using that room as a bedroom (it's fairly large - 18x12 - but really doesn't need 10,000 BTUs).
Would appreciate advice on this, particularly from anyone in a similar type of apartment (I'm on a fairly high floor and have Northern and Western exposures - the bedrooms get the morning sun and the Western-exposed living area gets fairly intense late afternoon sun)
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Be aware of two facts that I wish I had known about thru the wall.
The difference in height I.e. below the windows vs in the windows makes a difference.
Much worse is if you have to be flush with outside wall. If so, huge reduction in air flow because you ony have one surface vs five.
>> The difference in height I.e. below the windows vs in the windows makes a difference.
Yes. Who designed these things? 4th grade science = heat rises -- so why put your cooling unit close to the floor? Not to mention closing off any opportunity to put anything on the wall. Can't put a low bookcase, or anything....
SO does this mean the BTU calculators are wrong?
>> if you have to be flush with outside wall. If so, huge reduction in air flow
Airflow, as in amount of air that it will move? Is this related to noise (less airflow = more fan noise?)
Thanks for the comments.
one of the many compromises one has to make with life in manhattan. friedich wall master attempts to improve the situation somewhat by angling the vents to blow the air upwards rather than horizontally but as you point out it falls rapidly. design i think it an outgrowth of window units and the difficulty of supporting higher installations (back when air conditioners were hulking monsters) as well as wiring them.
i don't know the math but i think it is safe to consider that btu calculators are going to be off based on the lower position just as they often say within the calculator that you have to adjust for exposure and amount of direct sunlight.
the outside flush mount reduces the amount of surface area for heat exchange. consider what the outdoor unit looks like on a split system or central air. giant fan with air vents on five surfaces to maximize the dissipation of heat. now think about how that unit would function if you closed off the four sides and just left the top open.
SO --- does anyone have real-world comments re: current crop of "low btu" units, such as
GE J AJCQ06LCD 6400 btu
GE J AJCQ08ACD 8000 btu
Friedrich Uni-Fit 8000 btu
Frigidaire FRA086HT1 8000 btu
Friedrich WallMaster WS08C10 7800 btu
(all are about the same price, except the WallMaster)
http://www.ajmadison.com/b.php/Wall%3BThru+the+Wall%3Bunder+8%2C499%3BRoom+Air+Conditioners/N~57+4294826995+108+1116+4294826539
All input is appreciated.
Thanks,
88
Call Ken at Connecticut PTAC. Did our through the wall combo unit.
203-772-9863.
If you just need to replace simple existing A/C units try PC Richard for pricing and delivery. Used them for two units and no issues.
BTW I used American made Friedrich units in all 3 spots. Check on the chassis for country of manufacture before purchasing.
Are you using an 8000 btu unit in a 130 sq ft bedroom?
Is this a concern? Is this desired?
i used 7000 btu frigidaire for west facing 130 sq ft bedrooms and they did a good job. i had a GE 12000 BTU at the east facing living/dining of 360 sq ft and it wasn't enough. when they do the math for the size of the room, they do not consider that the brick warms by august and radiates additional heat vs june. this causes your AC not to cool as well. i would go with the 14000 BTU frigidaire or something bigger for the open area that you have. unless you are purchasing a Haier, you will be fine with the noise.
Thanks to all -- failed to buy ACs before last week's heat! Doing it now...
I called Friedrich for clarification re: too many BTUs for small room... Friedrich rep told me that a 7800 BTU unit for 135 sq ft room is NOT appropriate, and the unit for this room should be 5000 or less. She said that the problem is the de-humidifier will not get a chance to work. So now I am thoroughly confused.
But zillions of new yorkers have wallmaster 7800 BTU in their 150 sq ft bedrooms -- so is everyone marching out of step all together?
I also have another question about noise levels -- those of you with wallmasters -- are you satisfied with the noise level? Do you wish it was less? I had previously owned a Sharp window unit that was QUIET - "library quiet" - and it really was. Very pleasant to sleep in the room when it was running on low fan. You hardly knew it was on. THAT is what I am looking for. Will the wallmaster make me happy?
I need a 230volt for the living room, and I want the quietest unit made.
I tested a Frigidaire unit (10k btu) and the noise level of low fan vs. high fan was not all that much different. Low fan sounded loud to me.
ab_11218 - thanks for the brick radiating concept... yes, makes sense. So the 7000 btu unit in your bedrooms didn't constantly cycle on/off?
AC geeks, I know you're out there. Please share your real world data. Thanks!
I bought (3) 8000 btu Friedrich Wallmasters for the bedrooms. They aren't exactly quiet. Hmm...
Consumer Reports doesn't review through-wall.
LG seems to score well on CR. And Friedrich high-end units are not reviewed. Great.
Bottom line: should I get a 14,000 wallmaster or will another brand (LG, Frigidaire?) be quieter at low fan setting?
what did you end up going with? I have the same issue--through the wall sleeve, 5,000 BTU recommended, stuck with the 8,000 range.
Hi All, I'm reviving this after almost 2 years, as I'm now faced with a similar dilemma. I have a typical cookie cutter 2BR in a 60's white brick building. The living space is the typical "L" shaped living room; so it's a living room that "bends" into a dining alcove that then "backs into" the galley kitchen. All said, even though there is a wall separating the galley kitchen from the living room, the entire space is probably about 500 - 600 square feet. Like a lot of these buildings, the only option is a Friedrich thru-wall unit. And I'm having to choose between a 12,000 and a 15,000 BTU unit.
My current A/C is broken (it was the legacy A/C when I moved in so I don't know how it performed). So, for the moment, I'm using an 8,000 BTU unit in the adjacent bedroom (which has a movable wall that opens into the 500 - 600 sf living space - and the entire apartment is nice and cool). But, so far it's been a fairly cool summer, and the notion of using an 8,000 BTU unit, from an adjacent room no less, would go very much against all of the formulas for calculating the appropriate A/C size. My concern about getting the 12,000 unit is that there will be times when it will not be sufficient. So I'm wondering if there's a downside to getting the 15,000 BTU unit, particularly whether it would compromise the de-humidifying function.
My second question is whether it would make sense to replace the 8,000 BTU unit in that bedroom (it works well but is falling apart) with the 10,000 BTU unit because at 10,000 BTU on moderate, i.e., not-too-hot, summer days, I would just run THAT unit instead of the larger one in the living space. The only downside might be that 10, 000 might be too much when using that room as a bedroom (it's fairly large - 18x12 - but really doesn't need 10,000 BTUs).
Would appreciate advice on this, particularly from anyone in a similar type of apartment (I'm on a fairly high floor and have Northern and Western exposures - the bedrooms get the morning sun and the Western-exposed living area gets fairly intense late afternoon sun)