Non-working outlets in a co-op purchase

It's extremely likely.

I would figure that you're going to need to replace the entire electrical panel and build in $3,000 - $5,000 to do so.

In my experience, it's rare to open a 50-year old electrical panel and see nothing wrong. And the city can be quite picky with electrical panels. The brand used in my 1970s building is apparently known for circuit breaker failure, and so the city will not issue any new permits. Any "on the record" electrical work requires full replacement of the boxes. In my case, the city also required us to relocate and enlarge the panel.

Shani, assume the worst, price accordingly. Let the seller prove otherwise.

shani, in most cases, you do not need to replace the wiring. It is usually a bad connection which a good electrician can fix in $300 max. However, I would make sure that you can open the box. There is no reason for electrical box to be locked. The super would know how to open it anyway. Also, when you buy any apartment, you will find many minor issues which will cost a a couple of thousand.

We had a similar problem in our apartment when we removed some mirrors. The outlets that were covered by the mirrors did not function. When I told the super he sent an electrician at the buildings expense and it turned out to be a minor problem that he paid for. I guess the lesson is that each building has it's own rules and it pays to ask the super to take a look at the problem.

Only on a NYC real estate board would multiple posts advise you that the entire electrical panel needs to be replaced because a few outlets don't work. yeeesh. Do you people actually know anything about the trades or do you just moronically write big checks for a living?

the later ofcourse, how else can you explain $300+ psf renovation when you can build for $150

buy a 7 $ tester at radio shack--insert into outlet--if no power, switch breaker off, unscrew outlet so that hot/cold wire/connection is exposed--turn breaker back on--apply tester leads to hot and cold--if tester lights, but a new outlet for 5 bux and install--if ther is no power gut-renovate the apt

w34, it's a code issue. When a new, more demanding electrical code was passed, boxes in older apartments were grandfathered in. Once you start doing work, though, you have a responsibility to bring the box up to current code. Lad noted this, and he/she is correct.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

yikes: We are not all as handy as you. When it comes to electrical I'd rather hire somebody.

Let me tell you what you are in for. I’m not saying don’t buy it just saying that I am in the middle of a coop renovation last done in the ‘70’s and once work starts anything can come up. It appears that workmanship during that period was quite slipshod.

The electrical panel should be replaced with a new one with more circuits; our cost for this was $2500.00.
Once you start kitchen work you will most likely find that the plumbing is no longer in code meaning too thin pipes and other problems.

Then you will have to deal with venting other stuff and it just goes on from there.

Of course, you are buying the apt “As Is” and you should be ready for surprises!

Re: I don't want to be in a situation where an electrician comes in after the fact and says oh huge problem that's going to be another $3k.

Electricians are like mechanics. Hear a noise and half of all mechanics will tell you that you need a new transmission, while the other half will simply replace the mounting nut that fell off and charge you $25. Half the electricians will tell you you need a whole new service panel when you ask them to fix a few non-working outlets. The other half will fix the actual problem which is most likely minor. And you dont need to file a work permit with the city to fix a non-working outlet, even if you need to run some new wire. So there should be no mandate to "bring it up to code" as some have suggested. And churck actually got it right - just ask your super and chances are he will fix it or send the building electrician for free. Then slide him a few bucks.

I've been through multiple renovations, and I know how to do things on the cheap when necessary. I can say with full confidence that it is a big, big, big mistake to assume that there is only $200-300 worth of work in an apartment with a 50-year old electrical panel that can't be opened and a nonworking outlet, as the OP mentioned.

If the OP can't accept that this COULD likely be a $3,000+ problem, then she shouldn't buy the apartment or should adjust her offer accordingly.

Sometimes I marvel at the "cost saving" advice being given here.

Why would anyone in their right minds who is already renovating the kitchen not take the opportunity to renew 50 year old electricals? If the incremental cost is so painful and one cannot bear to spend more than 300 dollars then should one be buying such an apartment?

There is also disconnect in the rationality of many decisions I see on this board. For example this apartment could well cost 1 or 2 or 3 million dolllars, which we are willing to spend, but yet we are nit-picking over whether to upgrade 50 year old electricals, including a panel that cannot open?

There is more to life than money, but many respondents here reply as if the whole goal in life is to save money. Such an approach will often amount to 'penny wise, pound foolish' and such a miserly cost saving decision will likely turn out more expensive and come back to haunt the OP if he or she owns the apartment long enough.

This apartment is selling for around $200,000. We don't have a high income and money is an issue, but we aren't trying to be "cheap". There are other apartments in this part of Brooklyn for around this price and we are just trying to compare the cost of this apartment + potential issues + known upgrades needed versus another apartment that costs $40k more but has an upgraded kitchen.

I appreciate all the advice :)

Shani

Shani, you need to open the electrical box before you make your decision. until then, you have to plan for the worst.

Shani: Things come up that need repair and electrical can be an expensive but important fix.
If you plan for the possibility of a few thousand but it turns out to be less you will have money for an emergency repair fund. You really do need to have that money available.

Are you buying in Midwood? Ocean Parkway?