I like Battery Park City -- it seems like a fantastic place for families, but the whole land lease issue seems like a deal breaker to me, as far as purchasing an apartment there goes. I see listings for apartments there in building with particularly bad ground lease issues, and therefore particularly high carrying costs, and the apartments seem basically unsellable at any price. I know that there... [more]
I like Battery Park City -- it seems like a fantastic place for families, but the whole land lease issue seems like a deal breaker to me, as far as purchasing an apartment there goes.
I see listings for apartments there in building with particularly bad ground lease issues, and therefore particularly high carrying costs, and the apartments seem basically unsellable at any price.
I know that there is some differentiation between the deals that various buildings received in their leases, but the whole ground lease concept seems like a bad situation for ownership. Even in the buildings with good deals, it clearly could turn into a bad situation later on.
Am I missing something? I would caveat this with the comment that I think that BPC is a great area for families, the new parks there are beautiful, and would very much to be wrong in my conclusions, but I'm not sure that I am.
[less]
Response by NYCMatt
over 13 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
Bottom line: BPC is great for renters, not buyers.
Someone else on this board said it quite eloquently: Buy. Or lease. But don't buy AND lease.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by West34
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1040
Member since: Mar 2009
BPC is not land lease in the traditional sense. They're condos with a "payment in lieu of taxes" arrangement. The land is owned by the BPC Authority not a private owner, and a large block of condos recently negotiated a long term arrangement with the BPCA.
Bottom line: BPC is fine for buyers if you're comfortable with the often high maintenance charges.
I'm actually more bothered by the increasing flooding likelihood over time. That's disruptive to say the least.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
>I'm actually more bothered by the increasing flooding likelihood over time. That's disruptive to say the least.
Just buy on a higher floor
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by stuvwxy99
over 13 years ago
Posts: 39
Member since: Mar 2010
"Just buy on a higher floor". Anyone recall the mandatory evacuations last year?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
Only the governor can order an evacuation of people from BPC. The mayor has no authority there.... bonus!
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by jordyn
over 13 years ago
Posts: 820
Member since: Dec 2007
'BPC is not land lease in the traditional sense. They're condos with a "payment in lieu of taxes" arrangement.'
Huh? Second sentence has nothing to do with the first. The BPC buildings are indeed land lease in the traditional sense (the buildings do not own the land they sit on), which is reflected in the high common charges, and in addition to that you pay PILOT rather than traditional taxes.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by KeithB
over 13 years ago
Posts: 976
Member since: Aug 2009
Here is some additional information on the land lease situation.
In some buildings here in BPC the maintenance charges are no higher than the rest of the city. I live in Liberty Court, 200 Rector Place and my total charges, common charges and pilot taxes are $1231.00 per month and that's a one bedroom with a balcony. I also have a great health club with a pool.
And yes I recall the mandatory evacuations, I believe it also was for Tribeca and other areas in the city. If one lives by the water, sometimes there could be inconveniences, but looking at New York Harbor from my window is well worth it.
I have lived here for over 13 years and love it. I moved from the Upper West Side. Whole Foods is a short walk and they deliver here for a nominal fee.
I'm a real estate broker and a mortgage broker;
Ellen Silverman
E.S. Funding Co.
Tel: 212-786-9682
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by huntersburg
over 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
If you are on the 10th floor, are you really worried about hte ground lease, or maybe just that the 9th floor is ok?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by NL1
over 7 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Mar 2014
Hi, anyone knows about 2 South End Ave condominiums ? As far as the land lease situation and the flood warning in that area?
Thanks you
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by ApartmentMonkey
about 7 years ago
Posts: 22
Member since: Feb 2010
Recall that in Sandy, BPC was the only area downtown that never lost power. Similarly, flood damage was minimal.
Land leases are bad. Period. But the risk of the land lease situation in BPC is less than a privately-owned land lease situation. But it’s still an additional material risk that must be understood and factored in to any purchase.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
about 7 years ago
Posts: 9877
Member since: Mar 2009
Understand that the ground leases in BPC are all on separate deals with the BPC Authority so some are better and some are worse. Certain developers negotiated low payments the first few years with large increases and others negotiated more stable terms.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by 300_mercer
about 7 years ago
Posts: 10570
Member since: Feb 2007
Also, BPC is much more livable now due to Hudson eats and Oculus facilities.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by KeithBurkhardt
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2986
Member since: Aug 2008
Seems like the original buildings that are further south all have much higher monthlies. And I guess what would be considered poor terms in their land lease agreements.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by streetsmart
about 7 years ago
Posts: 883
Member since: Apr 2009
Each apartment and building is different; I am in a one bedroom with a balcony, river views in Liberty Court and my maintenance this past year was about $1550. This includes the free beautiful renovated health club on the 45th, 46th floor. (Doesn't include a free pool)
'/%3e%3c/g%3e%3c/svg%3e)
Bottom line: BPC is great for renters, not buyers.
Someone else on this board said it quite eloquently: Buy. Or lease. But don't buy AND lease.
BPC is not land lease in the traditional sense. They're condos with a "payment in lieu of taxes" arrangement. The land is owned by the BPC Authority not a private owner, and a large block of condos recently negotiated a long term arrangement with the BPCA.
Bottom line: BPC is fine for buyers if you're comfortable with the often high maintenance charges.
I'm actually more bothered by the increasing flooding likelihood over time. That's disruptive to say the least.
>I'm actually more bothered by the increasing flooding likelihood over time. That's disruptive to say the least.
Just buy on a higher floor
"Just buy on a higher floor". Anyone recall the mandatory evacuations last year?
Only the governor can order an evacuation of people from BPC. The mayor has no authority there.... bonus!
'BPC is not land lease in the traditional sense. They're condos with a "payment in lieu of taxes" arrangement.'
Huh? Second sentence has nothing to do with the first. The BPC buildings are indeed land lease in the traditional sense (the buildings do not own the land they sit on), which is reflected in the high common charges, and in addition to that you pay PILOT rather than traditional taxes.
Here is some additional information on the land lease situation.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703864204576315584254886002.html
Keith Burkhardt
TBG
In some buildings here in BPC the maintenance charges are no higher than the rest of the city. I live in Liberty Court, 200 Rector Place and my total charges, common charges and pilot taxes are $1231.00 per month and that's a one bedroom with a balcony. I also have a great health club with a pool.
And yes I recall the mandatory evacuations, I believe it also was for Tribeca and other areas in the city. If one lives by the water, sometimes there could be inconveniences, but looking at New York Harbor from my window is well worth it.
I have lived here for over 13 years and love it. I moved from the Upper West Side. Whole Foods is a short walk and they deliver here for a nominal fee.
I'm a real estate broker and a mortgage broker;
Ellen Silverman
E.S. Funding Co.
Tel: 212-786-9682
If you are on the 10th floor, are you really worried about hte ground lease, or maybe just that the 9th floor is ok?
Hi, anyone knows about 2 South End Ave condominiums ? As far as the land lease situation and the flood warning in that area?
Thanks you
Recall that in Sandy, BPC was the only area downtown that never lost power. Similarly, flood damage was minimal.
Land leases are bad. Period. But the risk of the land lease situation in BPC is less than a privately-owned land lease situation. But it’s still an additional material risk that must be understood and factored in to any purchase.
Understand that the ground leases in BPC are all on separate deals with the BPC Authority so some are better and some are worse. Certain developers negotiated low payments the first few years with large increases and others negotiated more stable terms.
Also, BPC is much more livable now due to Hudson eats and Oculus facilities.
Seems like the original buildings that are further south all have much higher monthlies. And I guess what would be considered poor terms in their land lease agreements.
Each apartment and building is different; I am in a one bedroom with a balcony, river views in Liberty Court and my maintenance this past year was about $1550. This includes the free beautiful renovated health club on the 45th, 46th floor. (Doesn't include a free pool)
Streetsmart, Some of the cc+taxes in your building are beyond ridiculous. $4 per square ft. Are you one a lower floor where maintenance is more reasonable while the higher floors are screwed?
https://streeteasy.com/building/liberty-court/43d?context%5Bcontroller%5D=%23%3CBuildingController%3A0x0000557d6572e948%3E&context%5Bcurrent_user%5D=1004028&hide_if_empty=true§ion=sales