Any advice on which buildings are "nice"?

White glove does NOT equal white brick! It's usually the opposite in fact. White glove comes from the fancy white gloves worn by staff at very high end buildings like on Park Ave. White brick refers to the somewhat cookie cutter buildings built throught the city after WWII typically out of, you guessed it, white bricks. Thus they are post war buildings.

Sounds to me that you need a really good broker to help you find a "nice" pre-war coop that meets your needs. Reach out to one of the credible ones who post here -- Ali Rogers perhaps. And in the meanwhile, pick a meighborhood - UWS, UES, Chelsea, Murray Hill, Flatiron, Grammercy, etc etc.

Sometimes it means both west 34th.

Have an ex living in a lower Park ave white glove white brick building.
The manual elevator operators do wear white gloves and they are crappy buildings.
There are a lot of those between Union Square and the PanAm / MetLife what's it called now (?) building.

Pick several neighborhoods to not limit your choices if your focusing on other aspects.
I'd start with greenwich village and let price move you out to other neighborhoods if too high.

"White glove" buildings are the snobby Park Ave. coops.

If you prefer the feeling of pre-war then look for a pre-war apt. You will find the long hallways in most buildings (except for those narrow sliver buildings which are not pre-war). Unlike a house reno there are things that you may not like (the window shape) which you can not change.

In some buildings ,the penthouse floor has two units and a small vestibule as you exit the elevator.

Only you can decide if a building is nice, for you. If it will be comfortable.
If you are referring to the exterior of the building and you don't like white brick, that's the least of it. As long as the exterior is up to code and not falling apart, that's nice enough. The lobby, elevators, hallways and other common areas are what most NYers are looking at for nice appeal.

If you call Ali Rogers, she can take you around and show you apts in buildings that suit your taste and point out what the neighborhood has to offer. You can find what you like in different neighborhoods so you need to check it out at night as well as in the daytime to see if the area is nice. In your case you really do need a buyer's broker.

Good luck.

Re: Sometimes it means both west 34th

that's why I said usually

But it makes for an interesting discussion (that I'm sure will make the OP's head spin). If you say the phrase "white glove white brick building", what immediately comes to my mind is something like the Brevoort/Brevoort East - tired, but once posh and swingin' places, now full of fussy older folks, some wealthy, some not quite, who smell like my grandfather's couch from 1956. And the doorman wears white gloves, but there's a ketchup stain on one. But that's just me.

I think of Royal Tenenbaum myself. :)

Personally I think the majority of the poster's searches probably led to those buildings and likely led to that conclusion.

"This is Carlton, your doorman." not a white glove building.

Or Mayfair tower on W 72nd, the Dakota's hideous neighbor (and maybe just a pet peeve but their damn marquee in front is so low I have to duck to walk under it). Yuck

Oh yeah, that's a low lyer, lol freebird.

See, Cee Cee. See what you have done...
You want to live in a nice (clean, safe) neighborhood, in a nice (clean, safe, good financials, well-managed) building, in a nice (you buy it -- you make it) apartment.

You can tell ali if you and your husband want to walk to work, be near transportation (subways, buses) like to have museums/park/shopping nearby. No mention of kids or pets but if you have them moving with you, there are buildings in better school districts and pet/dog friendly buildings.
So you tell ali what you need and she narrows the selection to show you apartments that fit your list.

Thanks for the rec, W34!

"White glove" is meant to imply a certain standard of service -- 24-hour doormen, porters who take packages and constantly keep the trash bins emptied, etc. It's funny that it has correlated in your experience with "white brick" -- which is used to describe buildings of the late '50s and early '60s, which tended to have a certain type of layout and certain amenities. But there are certainly "white glove" prewars.

As far as what buildings are "nice" -- decades ago, Tom Wolfe wrote a list of "good buildings" such as River House, One Sutton Place South, 10 Gracie Square, 740 Park Avenue. Those are pretty much still considered the "top" buildings in New York, and getting into them requires a combination of a great deal of money and a certain social position.

Below that tippy-top level, I think co-op brokers have rough rankings in their heads, just as you might have in your head a ranking of private colleges or department stores. I am happy to walk you through some of that if you'd like to write me. Just be aware that the "nicer" a building is, the more difficult it will be to get into, and the tougher it will be to renovate in. Very good co-ops, for instance, are not going to allow you to do any renovation work at all in the summer.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty
ali [at] dgneary [dot] com

Don't you mean the opposite - fancy co-ops allow you to do work ONLY in the summer?

Those are the tippy,tippedy top buildings. Where the residents summer in Europe.

Tom Wolfe wrote about the "Good" buildings. Not to be confused with the "nice".
Unless Cee Cee is to good to be nice.

Thank you for your responses. My husband's office will be in midtown, so it would be nice for him to walk to work. I'd also like to be near Central Park, so most likely it will be the Upper East Side, or possibly the Upper West. It seems as though the most large, well proportioned apartments in pre-war buildings are on the Upper East side. I looked at Greenwich Village, but there really are not many two bedroom (or three bedroom) apartments with a library and dining room downtown.

The white glove/white brick correlation is the same as buildings with garages. It seems as though if a listing mentions a garage in the building you can guarantee it is postwar.

We are not looking at 740 Park... Let's just say our budget is up to 8 figures, which doesn't get an apartment there. But this is my point in asking the question - what ARE the nicer buildings, and how do I know which ones are really considered "nice" and which ones are not really so good. What does one look for to tell the difference?

PS I am surprised by the statement about not doing renovation in the summer. It was my impression that one could only do heavy construction during the summer.

There is a second meaning of "nice" that can be just as important as the first. How do the people in the building get along? Some buildings live in peace and harmony while others have constant intrigue and battles among residents or between residents and the board. Peace and harmony are very valuable attributes.

CeeCee, you first need to decide where in this vast metropolis you want to live; there are myriad choices. Ideally, you & your husband can take a few long weekends to spend time here before you buy. Actually, just renting in your first choice neighborhood is a good idea. You can then be sure where you want to buy plus you'll have a place to live while the work is being done on your new apartment. How long you plan to live here is also an important factor; unless you plan to stay for 7-10 years, you might be better just renting.

I think you might prefer upper west side and possibly upper east side. Most of the pre-war classics are still there. If you guys aren't sure about buying yet, might be best to rent for a year (but in certain areas it's definitely cheaper to buy vs. rent). But as drdrd said, you might want to spend a few long weekends here. Each neighborhood has its own feel. I'm sure the two of you will want to take into consideration your preferences (stores, transportation, parks, schools, proximity to work, general population of people) before choosing to buy.

Eric: It would be nice to know if the people in the building are nice. But you won't know that until you live there. Reading the minutes may give you some idea but usually no details. You'll never find not nice things written about the board members.

CeeCee, I'd say that nothing will beat 'feet on the ground' for deciding where you want to live but you might have some fun with this: http://www.cityrealty.com/ Try the links across the top of the page, neighborhoods & buildings.

re: Let's just say our budget is up to 8 figures

CeeCee - I suspect that West81st, a broker who posts here and is an expert on high-end prewar UWS units (down to the most minute details), can tell you exactly whats available in that submarket. You might wanna reach out to him.

We have a new distinction: nice Upper East Side buildings are going to make you renovate only in the summer, when your neighbors are in the Hamptons, and nice Upper West Side buildings are going to make you renovate not in the summer, because the super who rules with an iron hand doesn't want you to interfere with his vacation.

Despite the fact that I have a current listing on Sutton Place South (*bats eyelashes*) I don't really work the East Side because I don't really like it. And you want a broker who knows the boards in those buildings at that weight class. For $10 mm, I'd suggest Barbara Fox or Kathryn Steinberg, but let me know if you want other names.

ali r
DG Neary Realty

Gramercy Park. 50 Gramercy Park North or 18 Gramercy Park South are 'Nice' and close to your husbands office in Midtown...

Those buildings are very nice. and good. Good and nice. You will get the key to Grammercy Park, Cee Cee. That's very exclusive and very nice.

Thanks for clearing that up ali.

When my husband and I moved to NYC in 1998 we rented a temporary apartment for six months. While we had spent quite a bit of time in Manhattan before our move, living here was a completely different experience. By spending time with friends in different neighborhoods I really came to understand how each neighborhood has its own unique personality. I didn't want to live on the UES - which, quite frankly, surprised me. Downtown was not great for my husband in terms getting to and from work easily - plus, back then, I wasn't a huge fan. I fell in love with Central Park West - beautiful views, beautiful buildings, and CPW is much quieter than much of the UWS. Of the buildings on CPW (and the UWS), I would say the top tier are the San Remo, the Majestic, the Prasada, 15 CPW - although 15 is a new building.

Something to consider, which you probably already know . . . after you have a signed contract then go through the generally 3 month period of time to close on a co-op, you then have to go through the process of getting all your renovation plans approved and permits obtained. In a top tier building (or definitely in a pre-war landmark preservation building) it is highly unlikely that you'll be able to close and immediately start renovations - regardless of the time of year.

I think the earlier college analogy is apt - some buildings are more Brown, Yale or Stanford, and others are more Berkeley, Oberlin or Trinity. I also think that maybe you are looking for a Tom Wolfe list type "good" building, although that is semantics between nice and good.

A few suggestions: do you know anyone in any of the "good" buildings? Nothing helps pass a co-op board like knowing people already in the building.

You might also look on here and in other listings for current and past sales in the better buildings, and see what broker names keep popping up. There are a few brokers who sell a lot of those apartments, so you would be best served working with one of them. They may also be aware of quietly listed apartments, and should know about the preferences and other residents of various buildings.

The only other tip I can think of in terms of what to look for in listings is buildings that do not allow financing or allow only a small amount of financing (like 75% down). In googling the Tom Wolfe Esquire list I'd agree with many, but not all, of the buildings listed - but it's a good head start of specific buildings to consider.

Wolfe isn't confusing "nice" with "good". He's referring to buildings where good,white,wealthy non-celebrities have a chance of being accepted. That's not nice.

Hi Cee Cee - If your husband is mid-town and looking for a nice walk to work, please consider the Sutton / Beekman Place areas. There are a number of Candela & Emory Roth buildings (pre-war.) Whole Foods will be opening up on 57th in August. Great views of the river - and a cool breeze from the river in the heat of summer.

Also very nice and Cee Cee can walk to Central Park.

Thank you Bird for the advice on the Upper West Side. Wouldn't you also include the Beresford in that group? It has always appealed to me because of the location and also the architecture, although it seems to be a very large building, although from the plans I have seen there there are only one or two apartments per elevator landing. I really dislike a long hallway with lots of doors to apartments or service doors that open onto the same hallway as the front doors. I suspect we will end up on the Upper East side though, which is fine with me.

We have spent a fair amount of time in New York over the years, staying in different neighborhoods and different hotels. We have also visited many apartments through friends or business associates, which is partly how I started to formulate a list of what I liked in New York buildings and what I didn't like. I am aware of the schedule for this, which is part of why I posted in the first place. I am planning for a few months of looking and purchase, then a few more months of planning and permissions, then bidding, then a few months of construction (likely summer 2013) and then a few months of decorating. During that time we would be staying in a corporate apartment or possibly renting. I just don't like the idea of going all that time only to find out that the building I picked wasn't worth all that time and effort, but if we don't start the process now it will only be even longer before we are in a permanent new home done the way I'd like it.

CeeCee, I love the Beresford and debated putting it on the list. There is certainly a case to be made for it being one of the top buildings on the UWS. But, as I'm sure you're seeing, everything on the UWS is simply different from the feel of top buildings on the UES.

As an aside, our temporary apartment was in a quiet part of Manhattan and we rented a "house" on the rooftop of a pre-war apartment building. We had the entire roof as well, which completely blocked out the noise from below. It wasn't until we moved into our first real apartment that I became aware of the traffic noise. We had a fabulous apartment on a high floor of the building, but it had traffic below that you never heard until 2 in the morning when we were sound asleep. The other issue (for me being from sunny climes) is how much true sun do you get. Not just bright light. It took me a while to understand that an apartment might be fabulous, but for someone like me it is only fabulous if I am getting direct sun at some point in the day. In the first apt that was ours, we had south and east exposure facing the park that was perfect except for the traffic noise. Now we have only east facing the park, but with no transverse or busy intersection traffic to worry about. Less sun but more quiet.

I'm sure you've thought of all of this! And sun might not be an issue for you. But I wish someone had told me some of these things before we bought that first apartment. As you mentioned, you don't want to do all the work of making your home perfect to find that there are things you could have avoided. In fact, I am relatively new to Streeteasy, but I would guess there is an entire thread on things to take into consideration.

Wow:

"getting into them requires a combination of a great deal of money and a certain social position."

"do you know anyone in any of the "good" buildings? Nothing helps pass a co-op board like knowing people already in the building.

There are a few brokers who sell a lot of those apartments, so you would be best served working with one of them. They may also be aware of quietly listed apartments, and should know about the preferences and other residents of various buildings."

Translated - they only want "their own kind" in the building, no matter how much money you have. In this day and age. Like the dodo bird, we can only hope these bastions of privilege and prejudice will soon be extinct.

OP - do yourself a favor and just find a nice apartment you like (God forbid - maybe even a condominium) with all that money you have to spend. With that kind of cash to blow - you should be able latch on to something pretty special (with or without white glove wearing elevator starters).

Something else very nicee, nicee.

If by 8 figures you mean $999,999.99, the white gloves are latex, & "pre-war" means Afghanistan.

lol.

No one has mentioned ONE57 (157 W 57).

8 figures can never be $999,999.99! it should be $10,000,000 ~ $99,999,999

ceecee's man could be an assbooker

I think you need a really good agent to steer you through this project. My suggestion is Mark Schoenfeld at Corcoran. He knows the city, deals in many different price ranges (he was the listing broker for Oprah's apartment) and he will lead you through the board approval process. He was our broker for our coop purchase, and we have only the nicest comments to make. Responsive, intelligent and dedicated.

>NYCeeCee - This building seems to have layouts that would work for you. Nothing suitable right now, but you might keep an eye on it. Some pretty well known people have bought there.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/30-east-72-street-manhattan