New Mitchell-Lama Lottery

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/downloads/pdf/brownstones-for-sale-central-harlem.pdf

this is a brownstone with 2 rentals for less than $1M. i wouldn't go for those yet, there are still tons in Harlem to be renovated by the city plus tax abatements about to expire of previous lotteries. prices should be heading south just cause of those higher carrying costs. it takes patience to time the bottom! but it's fun.

For future reference, I would love to know how to find such information. Great to have!

Unfortunately, you have to be practically destitute to qualify for the 1-bedroom for $2K. Who the hell makes only $46K in NYC anymore? Even cleaning ladies and nannies make more.

What are the HPD townhouse sales (like the one you posted and this one: http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/downloads/pdf/Newly-renovated-brownstone-for-sale.pdf). Are these income restricted? Why sell through lottery vs. open market?

Sorry, FreebirdNYC, I don't have info on the link. However, given the price on the link, the sale doesn't appear to be income restricted but rather related to the "preservation and development" aspect of HPD. The lottery is specifically intended to benefit individuals/families with limited income.

And NYC Matt, I know plenty of folks who are friends, employees of my gym and personnel of stores who are lucky to make as much as $30K annually.

> Minimum annual household income is $150,000.00.

these brownstones with rentals on them are part of the +decade long move by the city to stop being the biggest landlord in harlem and get people with higher incomes into the neighborhood. it's key for better retail to be able to be supported but also it makes for a better community, the idea of blended incomes, along with better public schools (that's gona take even longer).

don't be surprised if many of these brownstones face directly to projects or are only 1 block away. that's the idea, undoing the middle and upper middle class flight away from harlem. price-wise is too early to jump. i know of properties around me in harlem that are in foreclosure for years and only 1 of them (after 5 years!) is being listed.

so i'd wait till distress is finally allowed to come to the surface, otherwise prices will not be reflecting it. the end of the tax abatements will also help to bring prices down imho. also, notice that even though these are going for almost $1M, don't be fooled into thinking you got the bargain of the century. somebody else got that one, and you will nto be able to sell when those guys want to sell.

i've seen brownstones in Harlem being put up for sale lately that were bought for ONLY $5k! and that's not that long ago, this was during the previous round of city lotteries, back when yellow cabs didn't dare to show up. say, around 20-25 years ago. so if the shit hits the fan, there's people around you with a similar product and negligible cost basis trying to cash in equity. $1M will lose against $11k ($5k inflation adjusted) any day!

I went to the HPD site which lists buildings/apartments for sale in all the five boroughs. There was none listed in downtown Manhattan, but I did find this notice on the site:

FRAUD ALERT: DO NOT PAY ANY MONEY OR FEE AT ANY TIME TO ANYONE FOR AN APPLICATION TO ANY HPD SPONSORED HOUSING PROJECT. IF YOU SEE AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR AN HPD AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROJECT THAT IS NOT POSTED ON THIS WEB SITE REPORT IT TO 311 IMMEDIATELY.

For current lotteries, see this page: http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/html/apartment/lotteries.shtml

webrefdesk, I'm chagrined that I missed that helpful link, though it apparently is not up to date--nothing about the advertised lottery for the lower Manhattan units.

based on webrefdesk's quote, is it possible that the lottery in lower manhattan is not real? As Malcolmnc said, lots of young people who are currently sharing make less than 46K a year and would qualify.

> based on webrefdesk's quote, is it possible that the lottery in lower manhattan is not real? As Malcolmnc said, lots of young people who are currently sharing make less than 46K a year and would qualify.

yep, ton of people make that or less, and many of them are in dire need of locking in low cost of housing. hopefully more of these lotteries will be available going forward. most are in uptown manhattan, bronx or brooklyn though, not downtown manhattan.

lovetocook, it undboutedly is real, publicly advertised and confirmed by hpd.

thanks Malcolmnc.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/8593190/img/8593190.jpg

As I see it the page is indeed up to date since it lists apartments with lottery dates as last as August 6, 2012. I have a strong feeling that the ad that you saw is a scam.

I've seen the ad in two recent NYTs. It's the standard public-notice format that HPD always uses, and a scammer wouldn't have anything to gain from stacks of postcards.

I stand corrected then ... It just seems odd that it's not listed on the HPD page ...

You're correct, NWT, except that the ad says something about sending $100 once you are accepted ...

Take a look at the ad again. It states it's a Mitchell-Lama co-op. There are only a few of those in downtown, and none seems to have an open waiting list, as of April 2012. But maybe the only thing this proves is that the HPD site is outdated after all.

This is a list of Mitchell Lama Coops and Rentals: http://www.nyc.gov/html/hpd/downloads/pdf/MLLIST.pdf

The catch with Mitchell Lama coops is that you can't resell.

if you make less than 50k/yr, you should not be living in manhattan. If you are living in manhattan, you should have a roommate and live in a converted 1,2,3,4,5 bedroom apt with pressurized walls up the wazoo.

ok, i've brought it up before on other discussions... why aren't rent subsidies taxed like normal income? Are they already? I would hope so since it is no different than unemployment benefits which are taxed like normal income.

The ad's in the paper again, Late Edition, page A25.

> why aren't rent subsidies taxed like normal income? Are they already? I would hope so since it is no different than unemployment benefits which are taxed like normal income.

Rent subsidies are there for people that otherwise will have to pay more than 30% of income on housing, which according to the gov itself is not desirable. Society is failing to produce housing with costs linked to where wages are due to a bunch of measures that pick winners (homeowners) and losers (renters) *.

Ideally society will have the balls to let the mkt work both ways, when home prices go up and down, and will not waste tax payers dollars providing subsidized cheap credit to support prices above what wages can sustain. But society said: "hell no, i don't believe in this type of capitalism in which winners (homeowners) are really hurt, i believe in the type in which renters are the losers". Oh well... hence you have Ben trying to make mtgs cheaper and cheaper at your expense and you ended up guaranteeing GSEs mtgs explicitly. That's where most of housing $ is being wasted, together with the mtg interest deduction. Wouldn't it be better if it were going towards providing cheap long term housing solutions instead? Of course! But hey, it takes time to change policy.

Rent subsidies are a tiny band-aid. So let's focus on the big waste, which is that you not only are providing super subsidized credit, you are also explicitly guaranteeing it. Talk about the taxpayer being a loser. Why on earth is the gov doing this? go back to *. Till the gov doesn't exit the business of picking winners and losers, there's no improvement imho.

The city is still fighting the bad consequences of a stupid housing policy at the federal level that used renters tax dollars to subsidize suburbia from the 50s on. It hurt inner-cities all over the country. They are coming back in no small part uptown thanks to subsidies. I'd say that seing inner cities coming back is the best positive externality of this past housing bubble. Let's go deeper and question the failed housing policy since the 50s at the federal level that's at the root of the problem and society's mandate to the gov to pick winners (homeowners) and losers (renters). My feeling is that these winner vs loser mandate that society was giving the gov is changing thanks to the bubble. in no small part, cause younger people are more renter-friendly. If so, about time!!!

Just read a few days ago, that a left over of this process of taking from the city and giving to suburbia is still there in Chicago. The city is finally fighting back. The pensions of teachers from the city are only paid by those taxpayers living in the city. The pensions of teachers from suburbia are paid both by those living in suburbia and those living in the city. How many of these transfers going the wrong way are stil in place? Would be awesome to rectify them as Chicago is doing as we speak.

I didn't see Penn South or Independence North on that list. Does that mean those lists are closed until the next millennium which I imagine they are?

Penn South was built under a different program, so it's at the very bottom of the page in its own category.

Independence Plaza was built as a completely private development, but the developer ran out of money prior to completion, and the government stepped in with the provision that much of it become middle-class housing. Anyway, wasn't IPN taken out of the program?

The ad's in my link in this thread, by the way. The terms and prices are very unusual for a Mitchell-Lama coop. I can only guess the place is completely falling apart. For the most part, these buildings are not directly subsidized on an ongoing basis, and have to operate on the income from the maintenance fees.

the supply to the lottery dried up since last yr, despite it's much much more difficult for ordinary people to buy in nyc coz the RE bubble continues in last 3 years

nycmatt is out of touch, there are tons of small business owners report loss every other year and buying townhouses all-cash

"nycmatt is out of touch, there are tons of small business owners report loss every other year and buying townhouses all-cash"

Like whom?