Rental at 351 East 51st Street

thank you very much for keeping us in the loop. you are a fucking genius.

yeah this LL is a fool or advised by a fool rental broker

Dear Mr. Hones: I know that the veterans in this forum have little tolerance for the amateurs like me, but I am genuinely curious about these things. While I know you have no respect for anything I might say, I would value your insight as to what this landlord is thinking. Your posts appear to be a mix of annoyance at amateur postings like mine and real insight into the New York real estate market. My question, should you choose to weigh in, is whether the landlord's strategy makes sense. The sense I got from the leasing agent is that the building prided itself on its international clientele; I did witness quite a number of international residents and recalled thinking that the landlord was a genius if he was somehow convincing people to pay the rents being asked. I guess my question is whether there are buildings where people pay absurd rents based purely on marketing/image rather than on the facilities themselves. I am sure this is a stupid question and am prepared for the ridicule that I am bound to invite, but I am genuinely curious: can a building survive by creating an image that it is exclusive by asking wildly high rent when better physical space and facilities can be had across and down the street for a much better price? or will the market eventually catch up with it? I would think the market would always win, but I see the number of units for rent at The Beekman Regent at absurd asking prices and cannot help but wonder. Is the developer an idiot or a genius?

"I ultimately found a much better place for $9000/month."

I seriously doubt that, why don't you give us an idea of what you found.

This property seems appropriately priced based on comps in the building. This listing has building, neighborhood, mint contdition, views, I seriously doubt you found a comparable apartment for $5K less.

RealEstateNY: You are making my point. The comps in the building are exactly what I am talking about! One thing I did learn from a Beekman Regent tenant is that their 2/2.5 unit in Beekman Regent had been advertised at $13750, and they ultimately rented it for $11,500 so there is room for negotiation off the asking price, which is consistent with what the leasing agent said when I viewed the apartment. I am guessing that the "prior rentals" just show the asking price, not the actual rental because I saw the history on the unit where the asking price was $13,750, and it just then showed "unavailable" without indicating that the unit actually rented at $11,500, but $11,500 still too high for unit I saw that was asking $15750. Forget about the comps and go and actually look at the space and the facilities compared to those of The Veneto, The Grand Beekman and 310 East 53rd, and please explain to me me why anyone would pay anything close to what Beekman Regent is asking given the competition in the neighborhood.

Hey multicityresident, do you pay NYC income taxes?

There you go again RENY..,,,, dope

Brooks. Explain.

jim_hones10
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Brooks. Explain.

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And perhaps I can. Just because I feel that ME feels like a grave yard does not mean I can't afford it. It's the cheapest place in Manhatran.... For good reason

jim_hones10
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Cheaper than harlem? Yorkville? Les?

Explain how it is cheaper than any of the other three neighborhoods I listed.

Huntersburg - Yes, I do pay NYC income taxes.

Don't compare the Veneto to the Beekman Regent, a whole different thing.

The current listing at the Grand Beekman is @ 10,500 and based on the kitchen in the Regent there is just no comparison. The bathrooms are top of the line in the Regent, no pictures for the Grand.

If you are happy with your rental, move on. The owner in the Regent can afford to leave the place vacant, believe me.

P.S. to Huntersburg - why do you ask about the NYC income taxes? That is a fascinating discussion unto itself; even though I am not here more than 180 days, it is easier to pay them b/c NYS tax authorities apparently audit anyone who has an office here.

Brooksie: I'm still looking for those "burnt out buildings" on First Avenue. Ha....Ha....Ha.....

Look across the street. It this LL could afford to keep to keep the place vacant, why are they offering the rent cheaper than 09' rents. Get a clue.

Oh yes, walked up from 49th to 59th yesterday, not one "burnt out building". There is one vacant lot. Brooks, would it have been different if I had done it as you suggested, north to south? or is it that yo have no fucking clue what you are talking about? I did eat a really nice meal however at a place I had been meaning to try. Not one "bridge and tunnel" person present.

burnt out buildings, what a joke.

RealEstateNY - My question is why would the owner WANT to leave the place vacant? StreetEasy is supposed to be venue for people interested in discussing New York real estate. Mine is an intellectual question about the New York real estate market, and having actually viewed the kitchens, bathrooms, bedrooms an fixtures in all of the referenced buildings, I can tell you that those in The Beekman Regent are not superior to those in The Veneto, The Grand Beekman or 310 East 53rd, not to mention 845 UN Plaza; indeed,some of the units in the competing buildings had superior finishes because they are privately owned rather than developer "rental" units like those in the Beekman Regent. Your post suggests that you know the owner of the Beekman Regent, so it would appear you would be in a particularly good position to answer my question. Have you ever set foot in any of the buildings on which you are opining or do you simply dispense opinions based on comps that do not reflect actual rental prices and pictures that may or may not reflect the actual condition of a listing? Again, I am asking a question based on my actual experience; please advise as to the basis of any of your opinions. If the landlord can afford to let the units stay vacant, why would he want to? That is the essence of my question - is it possible for a building to survive on the hope that there is a fool just one showing away? Or is there something magical about this building beyond its physical space and facilities, which are not superior to those in surrounding buildings?

It is possible for anything to try to survive on the hope that there is a fool just one showing away.
Nothing magical.

Truth is not a RE broker. Truth is a publicist, but not the publicist for the buildings described above in your comment.. I wouldn't rep RE for all the money in, well, N.Y.C.. Because I tell the Truth.
You seem to be a reasonable multicityresident, multicityresident.

Follow your own common sense.

he's a dope. Sounds like you know more about RE in manhattan than he does. pretty sad

>Huntersburg - Yes, I do pay NYC income taxes.

Then you are good by me. Carry on, and thank you.

Brooks2 - The only speculation I can offer is that he is a broker who has one of the listings in the building or knows someone who has a vested interest in keeping the marketing on the building alive. Also, I see your point made in other threads about the vacancies, boarded up shopfronts, etc. in midtown east and admit that I was initially taken aback by them, but have come to really appreciate the neighborhood, now even preferring it to Lenox Hill. Nevertheless, I can see why it might not be for everyone.

Truth - I like the moniker; some friends of mine are heavily invested in a startup called Quora, the aim of which is to create a utopian forum for truth on the internet. I love visiting Quora, but passed on investment opportunity because I fear it will succumb to same fate as Streeteasy forums - i.e., that there will be some posters whose genuine aim will be to educate or be educated, but the majority of posters will be individuals with some conflict of interest.

All - I think I am particularly preoccupied with the ability of form to triumph over substance at the moment because I was just bested in a jury trial by an opposing counsel who did a brilliant job of making the jury see white where there was only black. All parties, the judge, and all the attorneys, including the opposing counsel, were shocked at what the jury took away from the presentation of the evidence - they bought the opposing counsel's interpretation of the evidence in its entirety, which is a credit to his skill. The opposing counsel had fully acknowledged in settlement negotiations that his theory of the case was tenuous but that he was delighted to have a client who refused to settle despite his advice that they do so; he knew a fellow litigator would appreciate that he had nothing to lose professionally because he had advised the client they were likely to lose and the loss could well be costly. I had heard of juries getting it "wrong" before, but I had never been personally involved in a case where it occurred, and I have to say, it is tempting me to dark side. My question re Beekman Regent stems in part from fact that there is a 1BR for sale in there that I think can be had at not a bad price; while I am not committed to New York, I am thinking: Why not buy the apartment and then rent it out when my work in NYC is concluded? If I can free-ride off brilliant marketing by Beekman Regent and let them convince a Russian oligarch to rent the apartment for his maid at an absurd price, why not? Seems as good a place as any to put one's savings these days.

Huntersburg - I am still curious about your income tax question. My accountant laughs at me because I seek no tax shelters, and he says that I am alone among my partners in that respect. Apparently I am not legally obligated to pay NYC taxes and could avoid them if I kept scrupulous log of my whereabouts each day of the year, backed up by travel receipts, etc. However, for my part, I like New York and benefit from all the city services provided, so I am happy to pay the taxes. What can I say? I still believe in a place called Hope, and while I do believe taxes can always be spent by the government more efficiently, I have no problem paying the percentages that I do. Indeed, I am a huge Warren Buffet fan.

A long winded way to say, "what do you think buying an investment?". I think you can probably guess my answer, but I would beckon the advice of Inoada.

multicy:

Good call passing on the Quora.

Because it's difficult to get a quorum on the Quora these days.

Even harder, hot zakh metsaref gevain der minyen.

"an international buyer would go for it"

Translation: they are waiting for a sucker who doesn't know the market.

"This property seems appropriately priced based on comps in the building. This listing has building, neighborhood, mint contdition, views, I seriously doubt you found a comparable apartment for $5K less."

RENY, you are clueless if you think that is appropriately-priced. Appropriately-priced listings in Manhattan do not linger for months, not even in Midtown East.

MCR, if this building and your one trial are your only encounters with shit that don't make sense, you have lived a charmed life. People make poor choices all the time, often in mass. I suggest that you take another cue from Buffett: accept this, and understand that your ability to profit comes from knowing that a misjudgement is going on and take the other side. You'll hardly win every time, but over time you will.

Case-in-point: you have RENY here claiming this place is well-priced, modeling her notions of what the market is based on it. Meanwhile, there was that listing we discussed a few months back that was worth twice as much as this but rented for the same price in a week or two. You know where the market is, you know which way is up.

I assume this is the building in Midtown East, not the building with the same address in Northeast Flatbush.

So, I see one apartment available for sale, how about the rental math on that one. It was purchased for $955K and is available for $1.095MM now. Looks like it was rented out for a mere $4K http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/801857-condo-351-east-51st-street-turtle-bay-new-york

I assume they could do better now, 2 flights up in the $6K range more recently

Cash on cash at 4K = $48K/year - ~$13K in fixed monthlies = $35K / year / $955K price = $3.6%. On $1.095 = 3.2%.
@5K Rent, $4.9% or 4.3%

@5.5K, 5.5% or 4.8%

Tons of rental turnover in this building

What about the Alexander condo? Renderings looked great. Finished product ...

MCR, I don't like to go into detail discussing the specifics of marketing certain apartments (because I certainly don't want other brokers to back-seat-driver me) but you can see that

1) this unit is not generally competing against units in the competitive cohort that you mentioned, because this is a furnished apartment and most of the units on the market are unfurnished, but also 2) the inability of three brokers from three different firms to move this apartment at this particular price indicates that the market feels that there is a product/pricing mismatch.

If you are considering purchasing the 1-BR in this building as an investment I might recommend going after the unfurnished rather than the furnished rental market, but if you do go after the furnished market, I might consider different staging/furniture.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

"I assume they could do better now, 2 flights up in the $6K range more recently"

It took 3 months to find a taker with a last asking rent of $4K for a lease that started 6 months ago. But yes, let's hope for a $6K rent.

Ino, Admittedly I also associated the cheerleader type tone of RENY to be feminine, but i am almost certain she is a he.

Apologies on the gender mix-up, RENY.

Thanks for the clarification, Brooks2.

>It took 3 months to find a taker with a last asking rent of $4K for a lease that started 6 months ago. But yes, let's hope for a $6K rent.

1 - I didn't even run a calc at $6K, though the apartment 2 floors above went for that
2 - Your position that this apartment would go again for $4K, as well as your failure to acknowledge significant increases in rental prices since December strains your credibility. Again.

OK, you're right. Rents are up 50% since December. You should buy it.

At this point, 3% return sounds good. After a little more digging, I have a few more questions that I would love any insight into:
(1) One of original buyers of large loft unit said the "developer" (his quotation marks, not mine) breached a number of commitments and is not somebody you want to do business with. I asked why I should care as potential buyer of a unit that was not being sold by the developer. He said that "developer" owns 1/3 of the building (all the top floors) and runs that portion of the building as a rental building (even has separate elevators), along the lines of the Spitzer building on 5th Avenue. This gentleman said that because the "developer" has kept such a large stake in the building, he still runs the building as somewhat of a fiefdom and effectively controls the board, the staff and the management company. This source sold a few years ago and said that he has no insight as to whether his information is current and doesn't care because he will not be doing business with the "developer" again. QUESTION: Should I care as potential buyer of resale unit whether developer controls the building? One the one hand, I kind of like that idea because a developer would have a continued interest in keeping the building up; on the other hand, I worry about the developer's controlling the board because I would worry about common charges being calculated in manner that would result in my small unit subsidizing larger rental units.
(2) Second source from world of real estate finance said that he has reason to believe this developer is under water with his units in this building and bank will not sign off on rental contracts below a certain number. While on the one hand that would explain the absurd asking prices; on the other hand, it defies logic in the sense that I would think the creditor would want the units to be rented rather than vacant?
(3) Tenant who told me about $11,500 actual rental vs. $13,750 asking price said their unit had a number of basic maintenance issues like handles falling off doors, clogged plumbing, AC could not cool their high floor below 76 on hottest days. They said maintenance personnel promptly fixed each issue they brought to management's attention, except the AC condition, which management admitted they simply could not fix because apparently system not strong enough to cool highest floors. They planned to move out at the expiration of their lease based on AC situation alone, but said building had been "fine" for their short-term need. QUESTION: Is it normal in NYC for high floors to not be able to be cooled below 76 degrees? Should prospective buyer of lower floor unit care?

Eventually I will be asking these questions to a broker, but I will not be looking in earnest until late fall, and in the interim, I want to gain as much information as possible on buildings of interest (Huntersburg - The Alexander is on my list of buildings I have not been into, but it is on my radar). I also need to do more legwork before I can even choose a broker because my experience is that a good broker is worth their weight in gold, while a short-sighted broker can probably eke out a fine living by convincing less-than-diligent buyers that X is a good deal. Accordingly, there is no substitute for doing your own legwork and interviewing brokers. For example, having done a lot of legwork already, RealEstateNY would not have gotten past first interview question; he appears to have an agenda and must be hoping listeners are idiots (alternative is that he is an idiot, which I do not think is the case). I am only one step up from an idiot (maybe just a half step), so I do need a broker who can answer my stupid questions in manner that withstands scrutiny. Front Porch does an excellent job of that, as does Inonada (wish he would get into the business). Accordingly, continued apologies for what are likely stupid questions, but I would love any insight anyone can offer on questions above, which I reiterate for convenient reference below:
(1) Should prospective owner of resale unit in condo building care whether developer owns 1/3 of the building with no plan to sell and runs building like fiefdom? (Who knows if this is really the case with Beekman Regent; just gathering information);
(2) Should prospective owner of resale unit in condo building care whether developer is under water in the 1/3 of the building that he still owns? (Again, who knows if this is the case with Beekman Regent; again, just gathering information). I tend to be a long haul investor and am curious what developer bankruptcy (worst case scenario which I have no reason to believe is even possibility here) could do to value of building.
(3) Should prospective owner of mid-floor unit care that building's AC system not strong enough to cool high floors? (This seems like a red flag for such a new building, but maybe it is normal in NYC?).

As always, many thanks for any input.

Really, your advice is to buy? I've never told anyone to buy. I have called out your too frequent exaggerations and ridiculous bravado.

Imo, a 3% expected return is low for a risky RE investment.

Brooks2 - My questions are designed to help me gauge the risk. Is your view that 351 East 51st is a risky RE investment based primarily on location to the extent you are not a fan of Midtown East and see its future as bleak? or is there anything in the information that I provided that would cause you additional concern?

any RE investment is risky. I'd say ME is more risky that other parts of the city. When the "pros" make investments they look for CAP rates a lot higher than 3%. A 5% CAP rate would be low for Prime Manhattan. And, ME is clearly not prime

additionally, you can get that return in other less risky investments.

jim_hones10
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Brooks. Explain.

jim_hones10
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Brooks. Explain.

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Brooks2
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And perhaps I can. Just because I feel that ME feels like a grave yard does not mean I can't afford it. It's the cheapest place in Manhatran.... For good reason

jim_hones10
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Cheaper than harlem? Yorkville? Les?

Explain how it is cheaper than any of the other three neighborhoods I listed.

3% yield. My gimpy goldfish can do better.

Buy sprint. I'm up 45% in 4 months. Meaning I've discovered time travel for my pile of cash. Now my money is 15 yrs younger than yours (which is shriveling up and getting flaccid) and WHEN taxes go up as well as mortgage rates and CCs, and your yield drops to .00000001% ..... My cash will be a perpetual 18yo. Versus your dead money.

Gauge risk?
1) massive re bubble;
2) nyc re the main beneficiary of said re bubble via bank profits and salaries;
3) 5 yr govt prop up of dead banks;
4) 5yr re bulls, govt, bank, underwater owners prop up of said bubble;
5) re still sucks azz with 3.66% 30 yr mortgages.

Nah, there's no risk. Buy every single brick in nyc re. Flmaozzzzzz.

Bacon is on sale!!!!!! Forget your 5000 BMI. It's on sale!!!!

multicityresident, I'd dig further if I were you, or not consider it at all.

(1) Yes, you should care. Eleven years in, the developer still owns the three commercial units and 25 of the 60-odd apartments. I didn't add up their PCI, but it's way more than 33%. Most sponsors keep the commercial units, so no big deal there, but keeping so many apartments is a big red flag.

The developer is president of the condo board. I'd assume the worst case, that the other board members, even if owners, are his peons. E.g., a couple of years ago the board put through an alteration fee (not a deposit) of $5,000-$25,000 (the amount to be determined by the board) that does not apply to any renovations the developer does.

I wouldn't worry about the CCs themselves, assuming the PCI of the units the developer intended to keep make sense relative to those he intended to sell. I'd double-check that, though.

Lenders are flinchy about buildings where so much is owned by one entity. May not matter, though, if potential buyers are mostly international and can't borrow anyway.

(2) The developer has a $21,000,000+ mortgage on the 25 units he owns. No idea whether rents cover that and the CCs, but if he has problems paying his CCs, the other owners will have to cough it up.

I'd have a lawyer check the developer's litigation history. I don't see much other than an attempt to retain a four-month security deposit from a tenant for damages, and a thrown-out suit against his securities broker, but wouldn't hurt to dig further.

(3) Yes. It's not normal at all. If the condo still hasn't worked out the AC-engineering problem after 11 years, then it's because it'd cost too much, and says something about problem-resolution attitudes.

Or are you riverturd believer in the ever increasing RENTS model of nyc re? Flmaozzz

W67, it is great to have you back.

But, NWT has my vote for best streeteasy poster

multicy: I agree with NWT's answers.

The(real)world we live in is full of all kinds of bullshit.
The greatest show on Earth. Politics, religion, Manhattan RE.

Because not everything can be great or best the greatest.

Your story about that "developer" reminds me of somebody I know. But I digress.
Manhattan RE is a world of bullshit unto itself.
The uppermost bullshit at the high-end price point is just more finely massaged,whipped up and sculpted.
Spit and polish and hope that an egotistical buyer/renter will catch his/her reflection in it and think it makes them look good.

MCR, in addition to being in the real estate industry for the past few years, I've been a landlady for nearly a decade - both outside and inside the city. I'd be happy to talk with you at your convenience.

In the meantime, NWT's points are all terrific, except I wouldn't necessarily underplay the effect of lenders not wanting to lend in a condo building. All other things being equal, it depresses liquidity and provides something of a drag on market prices.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

You should find whatever bad information you can on your target buildings, regardless of whether you choose in the end to factor it into your decision to bid because the information can be used as leverage against the seller.

That's another good test in finding a buyer's broker - are they more interested in convincing you a building is fine or in helping you find leverage points against a seller.

NWT- THANK YOU; that is exactly the type of insight I was looking for. Wow. WHO ARE YOU?
Per your suggestion, I just did quick litigation check on the developer and discovered a protracted and nasty dispute between him and a former business partner from developer's days in the insurance industry (apparently the developer used to be an insurance salesman). Litigation arose ostensibly because business partner got annoyed that developer stopped showing up for work when developer discovered that he'd rather develop condos than sell insurance. Business partner left and took all the business with him. Developer got angry and sued. The case went up to appellate level and back to trial court level multiple times over a number of years. I stopped reading after I got enough of the flavor; suffice it to say that between the information you provided and the extra flavor added by litigation with former business partner, the Beekman Regent is definitively off my list. Again, THANK YOU for the information and the insight. I am just getting into ACRIS, but even had I been able to pull half the information you provided off the system, I would not have been able to make sense of it, so again, I cannot thank you enough.

Front Porch- You are first on my list to call when I hope to have educated myself enough to know precisely what I am looking for; right now I would be wasting your time as I am obviously still in a steep learning curve.

All - as always, thank you for making the world of NY Real Estate a little less daunting. Oh, I almost forgot: W67thStreet - your post made me laugh out loud.

MCR: "Brooks, I see your point made in other threads about the vacancies, boarded up shopfronts, etc. in midtown east"

This is what he actually said; "1st ave in ME reminds of the Bronx, with many vacant burnt out buildings. "

Suprised you would think of investing in an area that "reminds of the Bronx, with many vacant burnt out buildings."

I'll challenge you as I challenged Brooksie, give me some addresses of "vacant burnt out buildings" on First Avenue between 49th and 59th Streets.

As for vacant stores, I guess Brooksie hasn't heard about the state of the economy for the past 4 years. I can't think of a residential Avenue on the Upper Eastside, Upper Westside, etc. that doesn't have multiple vacancies over a 10 block area.

Also I still say don't compare the landmarked Beekman Regent to the Glass, Aluminum and prefab brick of the Veneto. People will pay to live in a small landmark building as opposed to a building with twice the number of apartments and with little character. Another thing, First Ave is considered preferable to 2nd in the East 50's regarding residential properties.

Carry on!

and I will day again, look acrross the street. there are vacant buildings that remind me of burnt our buldings in the bronx....

that simple

starbucks even shut down its store on 1st ave in ME east years ago.

"As for vacant stores, I guess Brooksie hasn't heard about the state of the economy for the past 4 years."

huh?.. pretty sure I have been saying RE is going down because of economic fundamentals.. dope

Brooksie: I guess you base the health of a neighborhood on whether it has a Starbucks. I guess you didn't notice "Financier Patisserie" opened up directly across the street from where Starbucks used to be. Think you can pronounce the name?? Ha.....Ha.......Ha......

P.S. Plenty of Starbucks in Midtown East, in case you didn't know.

Have you eaten at any of the new restaurants along First, Carastina, Jubilee, or Grata?? LOL!

Have you shopped at the new pharmacy or gone to the new dry cleaner??

Did you know that a new TD Bank is under construction, along with another 2 restaurants, and a hair dresser??

When MCR said "I see your point" he must have been talking about the point on the top of your head, time to cover it with a dunce cap. LOL! LOL!

> Have you shopped at the new pharmacy
They have the best Oxycodone, and the Sudafed is right out on the shelves.

or gone to the new dry cleaner??

I go there all the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYF3dqrpnxU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I will never understand the vitriol that comes out between posters on this site; I think you all really like each other and it is a form of codependence.

RealEstateNY - Thank you for explaining your statement re Beekman Regent vs. Veneto, and I suppose this is simply a point on which reasonable minds can differ. As you can see from my posts, I see the allure of the Beekman Regent, but not at the price points it is seeking. As I decompress from recent trial, I am enjoying hobby of trying to learn more about New York real estate. Because I was fascinated by the information NWT was able to provide, I got onto ACRIS and really started reading. I still cannot make sense out of Beekman Regent; it would appear that the developer's units are well above water with a mortgage of a little over $21,000,000 on the units the developer has retained, which lends credibility to your earlier statement that the owner can afford to keep the units vacant; I just cannot understand why he would want to. Again, suggests that the marketing is working for him, and he is getting enough takers who just don't have time to look around or who put a premium that is incomprehensible to me on living in "landmark" building (though I have to say I don't see the character in the "landmark," particularly with the flourescent open garage on one side and the duane read on the other). This would again lead me to think about purchasing the 1BR and free-riding off the marketing, EXCEPT the info NWT was able to provide lead me to read the by-laws on ACRIS, and in addition to seeing the "Renovation Fee" that applies to non-developer units, I was also disturbed by section 6.25 and see why one might want to really explore litigation history. Actually, the AC issue alone probably was enough to deter me. The tenants said the AC would not cool below 76 AT NIGHT during the summer; leads one to wonder what the daytime temperatures in the units would be on days such as the ones we've just experienced. That may explain the high tenant turnover. Who knows, who cares, but again, I do thank you for explaining your statement regarding no comparison between Beekman Regent and The Veneto; while I do not share your point of view, I acknowledge that reasonable minds can differ and respect anyone's personal preference (e.g., while I obviously like Midtown East quite a bit, I can accept that Brooks2 doesn't).

MCR: I can accept that every neighborhood isn't for everyone but when Brooksie states: "1st ave in ME reminds of the Bronx, with many vacant burnt out buildings." That's an out and out lie, which he can't defend.

Interesting in all of the posts over the past year, Brooksie has never divulged where he lives, maybe it's the Bronx, since he seems to be familar with that area.

I'm familar with a large residental, retail and commercial realtor that kept apartments, stores and office space vacant for years until they got their price, had something to do with tax write-offs.

As an example, whe JPM took over Bank of New York in 2006, they closed the BONY branch on First Avenue and put up a for rent sign. The space is still vacant and it's my understanding the JPM has been paying rent on the space until just a few months ago. Probably the person responsible for leasing the space would rather not rent the space for a loss but would rather leave it empty, that's how bureaucracies work.

I think Brooks2 meant 936 First Ave. It had a fire a long time ago and has been sitting empty while the owner works out DoB issues.

There's another store a few doors up that looks as if the tenement apartments upstairs are empty.

if someone asks you why do you live there (1st ave midtown) what do you say? I love the area, parks, restaurants, or you say it was really good bang for the buck, and it may not be the best but i got a 2br for the price of 1br in the village?

No.. you tell them there's a Home Depot close by.... who knows- maybe they'll build a Walmart close by too

"I think Brooks2 meant 936 First Ave. It had a fire a long time ago and has been sitting empty while the owner works out DoB issues."

I'm not aware of a fire in that building, it was originally a 4 story building which was vacated and 2 additional stories were added several years ago. I heard there is litigation with the apartment building that adjoins it regarding air rights and views and is tied up in court.

Button: I say "I love the area, parks, restaurants, AND it was really good bang for the buck in 1996." LOL!

well good for you if you are honest. I guess i can relate a bit as I would rather drive a tahoe over a porsche as i dont like small cars. But i know i am in minority.

Button: I've been in Manhattan over 30 years and I think the prices of everything are insane. Just happy to have a nice space in a convenient part of town, I'll let others puff themselves up here on the board, I take most of it with a grain of salt. LOL!

I have not done any research on this, and cannot believe I am jumping into the fray on a point collateral to my original posting, but in the units I am interested in, I do not find bang for the buck in Midtown East compared to UES. I work a lot (though you would not guess it from the amount of time I have been on SE recently), and the one thing I need in NYC living space for my mental health is ability to walk to work; accordingly, Midtown East and Lenox Hill have me over a barrel (I admit that I cannot walk very far). So, with that said, as between Midtown East and Lenox Hill, I have come to prefer Midtown East because of restaurants, diversity and energy. I do miss the park, but because I put in long days, it turns out that a view of the river and a really short walk to work are worth more to me than having a really short walk to the park. Also turns out I prefer the neighborhood saloons and diner-type eateries over David Burke Townhouse on a day-to-day basis. If I did not need to walk to work, I think I could get a much bigger apartment with same neighborhood amenities that I like PLUS an amazing park elsewhere in city (e.g., Yorkville) for a lower price. In short, I do not see Midtown East as cheap by any means. Maybe so for large apartments, but does not appear to be the case for the pied-a-terre type apartments in my market.

>Also turns out I prefer the neighborhood saloons and diner-type eateries over David Burke Townhouse on a day-to-day basis.

The Box Tree restaurant was great back in the day.

But in terms of neighborhood tiering going on in another thread, I have to admit that were I fabulously rich with no need to work and just wanted to enjoy New York, I would live in either Tribeca or on Central Park West below 75th.

We looked at this building and decided against for many reasons. A propos of some of the comments above, there is ongoing litigation between at least one of the original purchasers and the sponsor. Allegations made by unit owner are consistent with faulty air conditioning, sponsor's breach of commitments and sponsor's control of the condo board. See http://statecasefiles.justia.com/documents/new-york/other-courts/2011-ny-slip-op-32176-u-7.pdf?ts=1323904927. If the link does not work, try a google search of "Geri Bauer v. Beekman Regent."

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/31859-the-beekman-regent-renter-beware