House Rules

Is the neighbor an owner or a renter?

I think he may have a rent stabilized apt. i am almost positive he doesn't own.

you can soundproof your adjoining wall. the materials are actually cheap.

You read my mind!! I am in the process of getting a contractor to put in a wall over the adjoining wall. Do you know if the coop board can get this guy out of the building?

"i have a neighbor who always breaks the rules by yelling screaming and blasting music"

Certainly sounds like one of those RS tenants ...

Nothing can be done? Can't the board get him out?

"Can't the board get him out?"

If RS, it's hard but not impossible.

If he's a shareholder, then the co-op can definitely evict. It's a big rigamarole, but can be done.

If he's a tenant of a subletting shareholder, then more straightforward to get him out.

If he's a tenant of the sponsor or other holder of unsold shares, then it gets more involved because there're three parties.

Don't assume that he's rent-stabilized. Some sponsors find it worthwhile to rent out at market rates once the original non-purchasing tenant vacates.

Since the managing agent is keeping a file of documented problems with the guy, it sounds as if the co-op's just getting everything together to move the process along.

I hope so!! He has lived in the apt. for 29 years before the building went coop. That is why I think he is rent stabilized. I was told by the seller's lawyer that these issues were resolved last November, but that isn't the truth. It has been going on for a long time. I would be so happy if he got out!!

Ugh. 29 years? Sounds RS to me. Do you have a real estate attorney from your recent purchase? If so, you might want to ask him/her for advice here. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that many RS tenants simply don't care about being 'good neighbors' because they feel completely invincible.

I did call my attorney and he is on vacation, but will get back to me soon. This guy is mentally ill too, so it only makes it worse. He just doesn't get it!!! So the board can't do anything? How can he get away with not obeying the house rules?

Lisa--have you spoken to the board? I believe the sponsor has some responsibility here but again, not being an attorney, I cannot offer specific advice.

I have to say I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this:-(

I haven't spoken to the board yet. I have to go through the managing agent which I have already. I will see if I can speak to the board as soon as possible, to get some feedback on what is going on. thanks though for your concern!!

Def rent stabilized if not rent controlled.

If it were me, I'd use my money on soundproofing versus spending it on fighting. As you'll likely end up losing to then spend even more money on soundproofing anyway.

Well I might email the board president in the meantime. Just to get a paper trail going.

So there seems to be wide agreement that the best possible solution is to try and evict the mentally ill, senior?

H-ll YES. I don't care if dude is old and retarded. If he breaks the rules, he breaks the rules. Just b/c you are old and retarded, doesn't mean you get to make life difficult for your neighbors. Through his as- out on the street.

Then again, I think we should end RS and RC and make all those tenants either pay market rent or get out.

"So there seems to be wide agreement that the best possible solution is to try and evict the mentally ill, senior? Lisa you're a true humanitarian."

Come on, Ottawa. There's no excuse for disturbing the daily life of your neighbors. As someone who works at night and thus needs to sleep in the daytime, I have all the sympathy in the world for victims of noise pollution.

the cost of materials for a 23 ft wall to sound proof is under $300. the labor is easy as well.

It has nothing to do with him being ill..It is harder to get him to keep the noise down when he doesn't really get it!!! It is about the quality of life!!! How dare you say nasty things to me because I want to be able to have quiet in the apt. I purchased!!I do appreciate the help from those that understand.

YES soundproofing is the answer!!

Sound proofing may not drown out all the noise, though. Start documenting everything--record the noise, dates, times, duration. Keep all your correspondence on the issue in a file. Email rather than call the managing agent. Keeping records will help if you need to escalate.

I'm with Ottawa on this, plus you have zero practical way of dealing with him. The tenant is not subject either to the coop, rather to the sponsor and still within all the protections of rent stabilization. Sorry.

Ottawanyc..I am so sorry you just don't understand the situation I am in. Everyone else seems to get it..Maybe you should not try to help anymore!

Lisa, you are the newcomer, not the tenant. You also failed to do your homework before buying. You have no recourse against the tenant, and its debatable if your indignation is even warranted.

Thanks bramstar!! I am taking your advice and documenting everything!!

Then you can use the document as a movie script, because 29 years in the building, this tenant knows how to play the game better than you.

Did you try knocking on their door? Asking them to turn down that NWA?

I did ask him to turn it down and he did, but the next day he did the same thing and also yelled and cursed at the person living with him, which made my walls shake.

This is my biggest nightmare I'm sorry you're experiencing it. Unfortunately though if he hasn't been evicted yet I don't see why the board would do it now. Good luck!

Lisa, the only help I am trying to give you is to realize how disgusting what you are doing is. I doubt it that everyone else agrees with your position. Poor you: you bought a place knowing there was a mentally ill person who made noise, and yet you still chose to move in and are now pushing him out; where, who knows, who cares? I get fired up about this because I worked on mental health issues and lets just say there is a reason that basically every homeless person has a mental illness. Here is a report I worked on, go about the housing section: http://www.parl.gc.ca/Content/SEN/Committee/391/soci/rep/pdf/rep02may06part1-e.pdf

Fortunately the US has good anti-discrimination laws.

Seriously, go talk to the guy and see how you can help. What you are doing is disgusting.

Find out when he sleeps. Give him some of his own medicine.

T he board has zero jurisdiction over this tenant. The managing agent had zero jurisdiction over this tenant. Zero.

Has zero jurisdiction.

Why don't you talk to the person living with him that he was yelling at? I would assume that person has some insight and some interest in keeping him from being too loud.

You think if I knew the neighbor was going to be loud, I would have taken it? NO WAY!!!It has nothing to do with him being ill, it has to do with quality of life!!! I don't know how this got all twisted with discrimination. There are always people that have to start something when it comes to issues.................If he had three heads it would still be the case of being respectful to your neighbors..

you know bob as crazy as that sounds it might be the only solution.

The lady yelling at him was screaming back, so it goes both ways...oh no I said lady I hope I didn't discriminate again.

Who cares, mental illness or not. You are more likely to be on the losing end of this battle than the other person.

I would take a three pronged approach. First, do the soundproofing since it sounds (no pun intended) like its relatively cheap and easy. Then continue with documentation to the board and to the sponsor's agent if your neighbor refuses to obey the rules. But at the same time I would notify Services for Adults (that's what I think its called) or another appropriate agency, so that the person receives supportive services and if required to relocate does not end up on the streets because of his lack of mental capacity. Its not your responsibility, but it is someone's and they should be involved.

Ottawanyc...WTF?
for starter...Lisa is not a mental health professional and has not moved into a mental health hospital.
if a building has rules that dictate behavior of it's occupants and there is an occupant that for WHAT EVER REASON can not comply with those rules than that building is no longer appropriate housing for that individual...no matter how long they have resided there. Prehaps the illness has exacerbated over the years making things worse.
Lisa, this is your home and the behavior of others is biting hard on your life. Don't listen to Ottaabrain. It's your home...defend it. Don't go in incriments, go balls out. Registered letters to the managment company, to the coopboard, to the neighbor. If it's really loud make a complaint to EPA and call the police every time. Your mantra should be ZERO TOLERANCE for any crazy off the rule book behavior.
Get a diary and make records of any and all insanity. Time and date stamp everything. You can also record the sound from you apartment.
There are no grandfather clause for insanity.
Maybe Ottawanyc needs a house guest.

Falco, you are off base. This is a rental between the tenant and the landlord. The fact that a coop has formed around the tenant makes no difference. The rules of the coop are irrelevant. The lease applies, and the law applies.

Thank you falcogold1!! and everyone else. I really appreciate the positive feedback..too bad it had to go in the wrong direction, but this is very helpful!!!

What exactly makes yelling in your apartment abnormal? Ottawa seems to be more of a New Yorker than falco.

Don't rent an apt with neighboring married couples. It's normal for them to yell in their apt.

This is the new NY, yelling not allowed.

Ottawanyc: "I get fired up about this because I worked on mental health issues..."
If you feel entitled to insult and lecture someone you don't even know, one can only imagine how you behave toward the people who HAVE to listen to your sanctimonious shit. Self-rightous, vicious creature.

So you agree with Ottawa about the sanctimonious attitude of the OP.

"If you feel entitled to insult and lecture someone you don't even know..."
then you are on the right discussion boards.

Ahh, the joys of owning your own home.

>Ahh, the joys of owning your own home.

Of the joys of owning shares in a cooperative apartment building with unsold sponsor apartments occupied by long-term tenants who are some of the most protected classes of people in NYC. This woman is delusional and, as Ottowa points out, just plain mean. None of the activities she complains about are done with malice towards her, nor are they illegal, nor in 29 years have they been credible grounds for the landlord to seek an eviction. But yet, she's entitled.

Good think there's not a screaming kid next door. Would you try to get them evicted too?

Of -> Or

Thing

Oh, you and your misspellings.

once again.

talking to yourself.

When does Jim Hones show up?

thats up to you.

Think he just did

I have to give it to you. The most brilliant distraction yet on streeteasy. You, Jim Hones all along, but plausible deniability lets you point the finger at anyone else.

keep going.

you're so clever.

The giveaway was your identical writing style, the identical fits of anger.

It took me a while. Quite a while. So I have to give it to you.

do you use multiple machines?

Clap clap clap clap for columbiacounty/JimHones. Bravo

nothing is beneath you.

but you've said that over and over.

>do you use multiple machines?

At home, I have one.
In my office, I have another.
On the road, I have a smartphone.

Scandal?

>columbiacounty
less than a minute ago
Posts: 10720
Member since: Jan 2009
ignore this person
report abuse nothing is beneath you.

but you've said that over and over.

Really? Post a link to where I've said that.

you forgot the basic rule.

No columbiacounty. I don't forget.

Bring out Jim Hones now.

There you go, exactly what Jim Hones calls me.

How did you decide on the name Jim Hones?

boring.

Here you go:
http://dir.yahoo.com/Regional/U_S__States/New_York/Counties_and_Regions/Columbia_County/Entertainment_and_Arts/

Openhouse: "vicious creature"; classic. You must be such a cute little caricature. Sorry did I upset one of the ladies you lunch with? Using such nasty words to such a nice woman really isn't done in polite society is it?

Lisa,
NYC is loud. There are loud trucks, busses, cabs, fire engines, police sirons, garbage trucks, kids, adults, ets. You chose to live in NYC. If you don't like noise, sound proof your walls, buy ear plugs do whatever you have to to find your peace, but you can't controll the noise of others. It's very quiet and spacious in the suburbs. Moving is something you can controll if the earplugs or found proofing dies not work.

Thank you huntersburg

Well thank you Jim Hones.

lisag326, during what hours does the music and the shouting occur?

What neighborhood is this building in?

Oh, and what year was it constructed?

Hey "openhouse" did you find someone to do your laundry in 10024?

Wow, Riccardo, the streeteasy community barely even knows you and you are already shouting that someone's a pussy.
Who else are you on streeteasy? openhouse? Jim Hones? columbiacounty?

"I hope he drills a hole through your new wall." ... sexually inappropriate remarks have no place in this discussion.

I wouldn't be so quick to judge lisag326 and her predicament. I await her answers to my questions.

alan, the answers to your questions will only help with facts about the tenant's protected status, including if the tenant is under RC or RS which is entirely independent of the person's behavior but may impact the difficulty of finding a remedy (if one is even warranted). The answers will merely help to judge how difficult the tenant might be to remove for the OP's selfish reasons.
This is NYC. We deal with all sorts. People from Pittsburg, Tacoma, Columbia County, or even Pakistan. Give us your tired...

I am who I say I am, no one else. I only recently started posting. I regret making the comment I did, but I get infuriated when people create these types of situations themselves, then pretend that they are a victim. Sorry if I offended anyone.

lisa:
Here's the deal: Did your attorney read the co-op minutes? (Not that the minutes aren't vague and intentionally misleading anyway) but if, in fact the managing agent is keeping a file on that renter (and not that the file will actually ever be used for anything)if the co-op board is going to take any action to evict
(not that the option is available to them to do so) It must be discussed in the minutes.

If your attorney didn't read the minutes as part of due dilligence, you are now a shareholder and can e-mail the managing agent to get an appt. to read them yourself.
Bring a notebook with you and put aside a few hours to go read them and make notes. (They will not allow you to make copies of any pages that might interest you. So bring extra pens.)

Here's what you're looking for: any discussion about that neighbor due to previous complaints. Any discussion about your complaints (should appear in the Sept. minutes, so give them a chance to get the meeting in).
When you see that you will only know that they have discussed it.

It may be vague: "Discussed the problem regarding the tenant in apt#__." "Reviewed the letter regarding the complaint about the tenant in apt#___" "Discussed the issue regarding the tenant in apt#__"
Unless they have "discussed the possibility of taking formal legal action against the tenant in apt#__ "
-- nothing is going to be done about it.
When they are really serious about taking legal action, you will see the name of their attorney listed at the top of the minutes page as "guest at the meeting". They will be discussing "legal remedies".

but, lisa, if it's a sponsor tenant -- and there is no discussion about contact with the sponsor regarding that tenant -- think about trying to install the soundproofing and see if it helps. Otherwise, if the yelling
REALLY annoys you --

"You got to move,
you got to move..."

I know I made a rude comment earlier, but seriously, I would try to find someone that has one of those walls you are intending to have built and see if it really does cut the noise out. Someone in my coop did it for the person next door that came in late, slammed his door and played lous music. It didn't work for him. He said it cut out the music, but not the door slamming or any other sharp noises.

Good luck....

>I know I made a rude comment earlier,

It's ok, welcome to New York.

to cut out the sharp noise (bass, footsteps, bangs), you have to use clips.
http://www.soundisolationstore.com/

for volume, you have to use egg crate foam. i did the egg crate foam and my neighbor was apologizing for having a fight(s) the night before on regular basis that i didn't hear in the least. one of my friends has an attached house where the neighbors fight continuously. he installed the same foam and now lives like a human being.
http://www.foambymail.com/acoustical-eggcrate-foam.html

lisa, can I ask, prior to purchasing, did you enter and view the apartment at different times of the day? I'm not criticizing at all, just trying to take your story as a learning experience. For the experienced buyers, what can one do to prevent this from happening? See the apartment 3 times in the same day or something?

You should have checked this out before you bought the place. It takes some time and drives the real estate person crazy, but just go back to the unit at all (reasonable) hours of the day and night, hang out there for a bit, do whatever, check for noise and other annoyances. This problem isn't going to get solved now, that's for sure.