Weekend open house anecdotes for 4/6?

I bought back in the fall so have generally not been going to them, except a handful with some friends who are looking.

I did notice a lot of traffic to see some of the remaining units available in my building for the open house. I live near the sales office so have a bit of a birdseye view. But given that only a handful of units are left, there seemed to be quite a few visitors.

I went to 4 today. First stop was a studio on the West Side by 50th Street and 10th Avenue. The owner painted the room an ugly shade of purple and then installed all these cabinets in the living room. The effect was perfect: ugly AND small.

Then a quick hop across down to another studio by 59th and Sutton Ave. It was average. Looked old and had no real view. And for the location to be right under the Queensborough bridge and so far from the subway, the asking price was a bit high.

Final stops were to two places on 92nd/Third Ave and 92/2nd Ave. The former had no wood floors, it was marble parquet... it certainly looked interesting. The latter was very nice layout, okay views and low common charges. The broker asked us 4 times during the open house to submit a bid if we really liked the unit. Because you know, "there were a lot of offers on the table" she said (as if we haven't heard that one before). I'm still considering it.

I find it strange that in the past three weeks, over half of the open houses I went to had a different broker hosting the open house than the main broker(s) on the listing. Also, turnout at the open houses for studios were not as high as they use to be. More of the buyers seem to be interested in two bedrooms or bigger. Anyways, pretty quiet weekend for me.

I went to six OHs. Not much traffic in any of them, and some I caught towards the end where I could see how many came befor me (not many, six tops). In at least three OHs, the visitors included other brokers. One place is already reduced in price by 10% from the fact sheet at the OH.

Saw four on the Upper West Side. Really quiet overall. The agents had lots of time to chat, and they were all very friendly, which might say something about the state of the market.

465 West End Avenue #12D 2 beds 2 baths $1,850,000
High floor. No flow. Listed as a convertible 3BR because it has a formal DR; that's a severe stretch; neither the kitchen nor the living room is big enough for eating. I think this is the sort of marginal property that gets killed in a down market. Corcoran SVP Deanna Kory was there, looking pretty glum as a couple of seventy-somethings poked around.

470 West End Avenue #10B 2 beds 2.5 baths $2,995,000. The building helps this one, with a lobby that has the feel of an Ivy League alumni club. The listing says "loft-like", and for once, it's true. The layout is sort of a six-into-four, and it works pretty well. The decor, with lots of light wood built-ins, will certainly speak to some people. To me, they said "Clinton Administration", and I don't mean Hillary. The problem here is price: they're asking a big premium for a renovation that is already starting to look a little dated. A very similar apartment at the Alameda went to contract recently where the ask was $500K lower, and Richard Geiringer of Elliman has a good comp at 515 WEA asking $2.4MM, with a real 3rd BR. Curtis Jackson sent his junior associate to babysit today's open house; maybe he knows this one isn't going anywhere at the current number.

311 West 83rd Street #2C 2-3 beds 2.5 baths $1,995,000
Spotless duplex with genuine townhouse feel in a midrise brick coop. Congregation Aish is on the bottom floor of 309/311, which could be a plus or minus, depending on your PoV. Lobby/entry level is below ground, first floor is above that, so the lower floor of 2C is a "high" second floor. Viable as a 3BR, but ideally a 2BR with a terrific family room on the first level and two BRs plus a home office upstairs. Unit was listed a couple of weeks ago, and seems decently priced for an initial offer. It's still quite high for the building, which doesn't have a doorman (and does have a drab corridor lobby that smelled like puke this afternoon). Interesting tactic here by Kym Spiegel of Elliman: she had a mortgage broker there with her, presumably to assure prospective buyers that money is available for those with the courage to dive into choppy waters. We chatted at some length, and the mortgage lady said basically the same thing we've heard elsewhere: the market now belongs to the portfolio lenders. (Translation: bring a hefty downpayment and a lot of documentation if you want a decent loan.) On our way in AND out, we saw a couple outside in deep conversation with their broker. Another couple came in as we left; but overall, it was pretty slow.

320 West 86th Street #2A 4 beds 3 baths $3,395,000
Liked this one a lot (of course we did, since we can't remotely afford it). It's a real family apartment, with three BRs in one wing and another (with bath) at the other end. Big, open entertaining space in middle. Listed at 2600 sq.ft., and feels like it. Surprisingly bright and airy for the second floor. In good shape, though some of the 70s/80s touches could use freshening up, and a little tinkering could make the layout more efficient. Looks like a psychiatrist's office shares the semi-private landing, which might bother some people. 320 is far enough from 535 WEA so the construction shouldn't be an issue - unless a crane tips over); close enough to benefit if that building raises values on this block, which seems pretty likely if the project turns out as opulent as rumored. We were there pretty early; Brian Rice and his associate were hanging around with nothing to do. For what it's worth, they seem like nice guys. We stayed a while, and only one other prospect popped in for a minute while we were there. He left quickly; said his sister was double-parked outside.

For now, I guess the standoff continues, but there were a lot of price reductions last week and I bet there will be a lot more coming. No real bargains yet. Mostly just letting the air out of the more aspirational prices.

Haven't been to any open houses in a couple of months. Why bother? Current listings in our price range are total crap and/or overpriced. The only places we like are in the $3-5 million range, which we can't afford right now.

Saw a beautiful apt today at 239 CPW listed at $2.99m, apt 14c. Very bright, tastefully renovated classic 6.
There is another unit in the building for sale with the same footprint on the fourth floor, being offered by Elliman, not as bright, not as well renovated, nor as well layed-out. However, that apartment has been reduced three times since mid-January, to the current $2.475m (distressed seller?). I just wonder given the price discrepancy how the first one will end up trading THAT much higher. Its nicer but thats a big gap for a 2 bedroom in the same building.

bfgross: The price drop on 4C is even bigger than you think. The original asking price last summer was $3.3MM. At that point, you could have had 4C and 5C for the incredible bargain price of just $6.6MM!
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/96005-coop-239-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

239 CPW is prime. The C line isn't. No park view. Although 4C is clearly the better buy at this point, it might need to come down even farther. 14C is tricked out like a trophy apartment, and somebody with a lot of money might fall in love with it. The thing is, a trophy apartment on CPW needs to face east.

nice catch west81
I didnt realize the full history for 4c.
I agree that as for 14c, it only sells at ask if a rich person falls in love with it. It looks and feels like a tophy , just w/o that trophy view...............
Have you seen either of these in person or just looked at the pics?

bfgross: Only 4C. Spoke to a friend at another firm about 14C. The numbers and floorplan didn't work for us.

bfgross: After a second look, I think maybe the 21% price differential is about right, at least judging by the way the coop itself values those apartments. The maintenance on 4C is $2436. On 14C, it's $2870. That indicates that the per-share asking price on the two apartments is very similar, since the price ratio of 1.21:1 is almost equal to the maintenance ratio of 1.18:1. The difference in condition probably more than makes up for the remaining 3%. It seems weird, but the more expensive apartment might be the better value, assuming you like the renovation.

West81st, my husband and I are thinking about buying the classic 6 at 800 West End. I know that you had mentioned that you had visited in one of your previous posts. I am curious as to your perspective on this unit.

w81
I only saw 14c.
What was your impression of 4C? Needs a lot of work or no? How bright is it?
My main problem with it, before looking (Im supposed to see it tomorrow) is I dont like the floorplan either

It will be curious to see where 4C shakes out, though.
Someone all the sudden is in quite a hurry to sell, it would seem.

EAO: I think there are two approaches you can take with that unit at 800 WEA. If you like the layout, you can just redo the kitchen and maid's room, freshen up the rest of the place and call it a day. The more ambitious option (assuming it's structurally possible) is to knock out a couple of walls to open the place up. Usually, I like the old-fashioned floorplans, and I hate to see old plaster, moldings and cabinets tossed in a Dumpster. In this case, though, an awfully big chunk of the apartment is spent on that central gallery. In your shoes, I'd want to know what other people in the same line have done.

bfgross: Can't say 4C made much of an impression, except that (two price cuts ago?) it seemed expensive. I was acting as a beard for an agent friend at the time, so I didn't keep careful notes. Anyway, it wasn't horribly dark, and the condition was fine. It does face a wall, but IIRC it's a pretty nice wall.

West, I dont understand what you mean by tricked out. It seems like a real nice bright airy apt. Could you explain?

West81st, thank you so much for your feedback. I have been looking for apartments on the UWS ( many of which you have visited ) and really have valued the insights you have shared. Two last questions, what do you think is a reasonable price for this place? Do you think the location is a good investment?

West81st enjoyed reading your detailed thoughts on open houses this weekend. Keep em coming.

ccdevi: I meant it as a compliment. The renovations look beautiful. Sorry if the slang sounded negative.

EAO: My pleasure. Personally, I like that stretch of West End a lot, and 800 has a nice, intimate "Tudor cave" feel. We know tons of people within a few blocks, and none have any regrets about the north-of-96th thing. One friend on 104th - who watches this stuff closely - swears the price spread between the 80s and the high 90s/low 100s has narrowed to 5-10%. My guess would be a little higher. Anyway, transportation is fine, and the stores are improving too. The remaining quibble, I think, is the public schools. If that's not a big issue for you, and you don't mind a longer trip to Zabar's and Fairway, there's no compelling reason to pay extra to be in the catchment for PS9 or PS87. If you're concerned about buying into a "fringe" area in an uncertain market, 99th and West End is safely inside the current borders of the UWS; if it sinks, the rest of us are going down too. Also, a lot of money just moved in around the corner, on Broadway. The Ariels may not be Extel's fanciest development, but they definitely represent a big injection of cash.

As for the price, who knows? It's still on the market after seven weeks, so draw your own conclusions. The family seems to be done with the place; they've had it forever, and it's not like they have to pay off a big mortgage, so they probably have room to negotiate.

Went to the OH at 15 West 17th street. The unit was big and spacious but definitely needs a lot of work. I was the first to show up so not sure what kind of traffic they saw. What really concerns me is the retail unit on the bottom, Heaven Spa. It has the blacked out windows, a buzzer to get in the 2nd door, and just seems VERY VERY shady to me. It was a huge turnoff for me. Not sure if anyone else noticed this, or if anyone can shed any light on that spa.

EAO - was looking at this floorplan, and at first I loved how every sleeping chamber has a bathroom, but then I noticed none of the toilets are accessible unless you pass through a bedroom or the maid's room. Is that correct? I prefer to keep bedrooms private, so having visitors having to pass through them would not be a good choice for me personally.

Wow. I googled "heaven spa nyc" and was too afraid to click on anything that popped up since all hits involved "asian massage" and "showers". Just what I want beneath my $2MM condo, huh? There are definitely plusses to co-ops, IMHO.

Valldejuli thanks for your input. We actually have the ability to move the maids bath so that it is off of the pantry. Additionally, we could move the closets in the hallway to bedrooms and have a hallway entrance to the second bathroom.

Re: 239 CPW
Please note that the last time we looked, 239 CPW had a big flip tax that is (unusually) paid for by the buyer. I think it is also a building that requires a 50% down payment. Apartments in these pedigreed buildings that do not face the park are always a tough sell because, let's face it, if you can afford CPW, you'll probably want a park view. We've also heard that the board at 239 is very tough and would be looking for substantial liquid assets from prospective buyers. In my opinion, this is why the prices of these units seem so reasonable. We had an offer on one once and were not only flat out rejected by the board, but the buyers fired their listing agent and hired someone from Sotheby's instead.

These apartments were much better deals during the early 90s when the board was much more lax, and units dropped down to fire sale prices. Shoulda, coulda, woulda!

MrsBlogs
Flip tax at 239 CPW is 2% by the buyer -- not sure how that compares to other coops but based on the ones ive looked at -- it seems about the norm. Dont know about the Board except that the realtor at Cave said they were very "reasonable". I guess its all relative though!
Im not sure I agree about your park view point though. If 14c were in the front of the building, im guessing it would be worth 4-4.5mm. You cant tell me a buyer who may be stretching to buy a 2.5-3mm unit can necessarily afford one that is 1.5-2mm higher. And while I would personally love to own an apt with a park view from a high floor, the premium paid for that is staggering. Compare units that face the park on the second floor to ones on the 10th or higher in any number of CPW buildings and you will see what I mean. In additition I would much rather have a high floor apt in the the back of the building that has open views and is flooded with light, to one facing the park on a very low floor that is much darker. Also, remember that the park itself, with all its amenities, is just as close from the back apt as it is from the front one. Which of course is a big reason people pay to be on the Park, in addition to the views from certain of the apts.

c'mon kylewest, that could be a HUGE benefit. I heard if you mention streeteasy, heaven spa has a buy 10 get 1 free option and they will include dry cleaning & laundry (for one outfit) as part of the package. You may want to be a little more open minded about "creative amenities" offered at certain properties. Sure beats a treadmill in the corner of a basement labeled "exercise room".

EAO: For valuing that unit at 800 WEA, you might want to keep an eye on the price war down the street at 755. There was another big reduction on one of the units today. The apartments are on lower floors than yours, and they need work, but the direct competition between similar units might reset the price point for a classic six along that stretch of WEA. Even if 755 doesn't look like a comp to you, it might look like one to an appraiser, so it's worth watching.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/755-west-end-avenue-manhattan

West81st: Do you think that those are valid comps given that the one at 800 WE is about 200 square ft larger and on a high floor with open views on both sides? I took a look at those units. One is on the first floor, one is a wreck on the 2nd floor with most windows facing walls and the 3rd is also on a low floor with mostly obscured view. I am curious as to your perspective.

EAO: Interesting question. In a stable, active market, you could probably find closer matches and rely on them as a guide to pricing. With volume thin and prices volatile, you might have to use a wider range of comps - including some that look better than your target and some that look worse. If nothing else, inferior comps give you an idea of your downside. You're right about the higher floor and better light. With regard to condition, by the time you gut the whole kitchen/maid's wing, move some walls and plumbing around, do a few "while the contractor is here" improvements and then undo the damage from all of that work, the tab may approach the cost of fixing a wreck.

bfgross - I agree that most people would much rather have a park view then not have one and the difference in price is absolutely staggering, but my point about CPW apartments is that because the co-op boards can sometimes be difficult, and can require buyers to have large amounts of liquidity, there would only be a limited group of buyers that would qualify to purchase an apartment (especially in a buyer's market) in one of these buildings. The problem occurs when you're the seller in a buyers market and you're trying to find a qualified (i.e. very wealthy) buyer for your non-view (and perhaps low floor) apartment. It could take a long time and cause you much aggravation. And, with strict rental policies, you may be stuck carrying an apartment that you're not living in, and can't rent. It's not a problem if you're extremely wealthy and can either reduce the price substantially, or use the apartment occasionally, but if that were your situation, you probably would have purchased a park view apartment in the first place. I've seen apartments like this on the market for 18 months plus, unable to find a buyer until the economy picked up again. In other words, these can be risky deals.

If I were currently in the market for a no-view, low-floor co-op apartment on CPW, I would low ball an all-cash bid and present it directly to the listing agent with no buyer broker involvement. If I didn't get it, I would wait for another one to come along.

I had scheduled an appt for tonight to visit this one and they already have a contract out ...
311 West 83rd Street #2C 2-3 beds 2.5 baths $1,995,000

Thanks, Ninux. Not surprised about that one. The couple standing outside with their broker - from BHS, I think - seemed to be discussing strategy for an offer, and the conversation went on for a long time (spanned our entire visit). It's a very nice apartment, and it shows beautifully, even if the building lacks charm.

w81
Followup to the weekend.
I was able to arrange to see 239 CPW 4C today
Frankly it shows very poorly, IMO. Really drab, just about every window has a wall directly in front of it. Is set up as a 3 BR as opposed to 14C, set up as a 2BR. The parts theyve renovated is fine, but I cant imagine a buyer not wanting to redo that kitchen -- it has a really bizarre concrete mass in the middle where the oven is. Not an island exactly, frankly im not sure what it is, but hideous. In no way shape or form compares to 14C. Pretty apparent to me now how 14C can be worth 20% more. I also wouldnt be surprised to see this come down further before it closes. From what the agent said, they are using 6E at 2.75 as a comp, but 6E shows considerably better, was brighter, had a nicer renovation, and was sold last summer at the top of the market before the real worries started.
My guess would be that 2.25 is the closing price here.

2.25 for 4C or 14C?

2.25 for 4c

EAO - We considered an apt at 800 WEA last summer. We liked the building a lot.

Be sure to walk the neighborhood in all directions.

We finally decided against the location - NOT because it's above 96th Street. We were concerned that when you walk out the front door, you have a significant hill in two directions. South to 96th is steep. West to Riverside Dr - you pretty much need to rappel to get up and down 99th. That may not matter to most buyers, but it mattered a lot to us.

By the way, the building had a great website, with Coop application and other info publically available.

bfgross: "Bizarre concrete mass." I like that. Elliman should list it as a feature of 4C. I didn't even think it was real concrete. Wasn't there a Jenn-Air or something in there? Very 70s.

You win - you hated that apartment more than I did. But unlike you, I think it goes for less than $2.25MM.

680WEA: Fair point about 99th (and even more true of 97th). West End levels off a block or so farther up, which is nice.

680wea thanks for your feedback. We are actually in negoitiations with the seller but not sure which direction to go. Although I like the building, I find the area kind of "spotty". It reminds me of what the lower portions of the UWS used to be like 10- 15 years ago. There are some really run-down buildings right around the corner from the apartment. Broadway is particularly "spotty" in that area. I am just not sure how long it is going to take for the entire area to become more gentrified.

EAO: There's a lot of inventory on prime WEA (73rd - 94th) at similar prices. If you have serious misgivings about 99th, maybe you should trust your gut. You won't get quite as much square footage on a high floor for under $2MM, but the difference isn't huge. And in this market, you'll probably find some motivated sellers.

If only I could transport the apartment 10 blocks south. I did see a new listing at 180 Riverside Drive which is completely rennovated. That is a location I can get excited about.

6B? If you can afford that beauty, I hate you and this conversation is officially over. ;o)

Seriously, that's a great spot. Just be prepared to fight frigid gales on your way home in the winter. 90th Street has a crazy wind-tunnel effect. I think it's a combination of the river, the Soldiers and Sailors Monument and the hill that leads down to the Hippo Park. In February, everyone coming down that block at night looks like Marcel Marceau doing his "walking against the wind" schtick.

Actually it is a new 6 that has not yet made it on to Streeteasy. I used to live at 75th and Riverside, so I am used to the winds. I just find that particular location to be one of the most beautiful parts of NY. Makes you feel as though you are almost escaping the City. Also, we have a young child and the park is great for young children.

West81st - you seem to have a pretty good handle on UWS offerings. I've also been checking out the UWS, either btwn Col/CPW or on WEA/Riverside, pref below 96th but willing to look near Columbia/Morn Heights. I've also noticed a rapid build-up in inventory in the 2BR range.

A basic question from a search standpoint - all of the properties and OHs I have seen have been from the NYT listings and Streeteasy. What other sources would you recommend scouring to canvass more exhaustively?

Faustus: I don't have any secrets to share. I've just lived here my whole life, so I know a lot of the buildings. I also spend a lot of time with other public school parents, and real estate is on everyone's mind these days. (Either they own and they're nervous, or they don't own and they're, well, nervous.) Word of mouth is a great resource. If you like certain buildings, try to befriend some doormen. A cup of coffee goes a long way as a conversation-starter on a cold day. You may feel sleazy doing it, but it's a symbiotic thing for those guys. They know if they give you a good tip on a newly-available apartment, you'll repay the favor at Christmas, and for many Christmases to come.

By the way, it looks like the buildup of prewar 2BRs is starting to inject a bit of realism into some of the new listings. Here's an example, which I'll check out on Sunday. The G line at Chester Court is pretty small and the view is nothing to get excited about; but it's good to see an opening price that reflects, at best, a flat market.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/215161-coop-201-west-89th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan

w81
I might have to agree that 4c gets less than 2.25mll. Its 14c im really interested in. unfortunately its at the edge of my affordability at its current ask price. And in this mkt no way am I going to stretch to buy something....now if we could just go back four or five yrs.......:-(

bfgross: If you can go a little farther north, you might consider this one:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/215158-coop-50-west-96th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan
...which used to be this one:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/148459-coop-50-west-96th-street-upper-west-side-manhattan
four price-cuts ago, before Halstead took the listing away from Fox.

It's seems to match your tastes (high floor, great light, excellent flow, nice kitchen, classy renovation). The owners have already gone to contract elsewhere, and they had another deal fall through, so they must be eager to end the ordeal after six months.

Any info on the 2 bd at 225 CPW? Heard the board is difficult.

dmf13: I'll check with friends at 225 about the Board. They've never mentioned it, but they have been there a long time, so it probably hasn't been an issue for them.

I haven't seen 1521. If I have the geography right, it takes balls to claim that any south-facing apartment in the Alden has "views of the park". Even on the 15th floor, I think what you get is a really nice view of the Beresford.

The current owners have only been there three years, and they have cut the price very quickly, to the point where they won't make much profit at all, assuming they did the renovations. Looks like they're motivated. (Just guessing.)

w81
I was wondering myself based on the listing, why if they are claiming views of the park is there no picture of the bedroom with such claimed view
Like you said probably more like a really nice view of Jerry Seinfelds 15th floor corner apartment at the Beresford which doubtless has real nice park views!

EAO: I think some of mrsblogs's earlier comments about CPW units with no park view would also apply to RSD apartments that don't face the river - like 3E at 180, or the two smaller 2BRs for sale at 173/175. Anyway, good luck.

bfgross - Maybe the "park view" on the south side of 225 CPW is a reflection in the windows across the street. And the copious sunlight might be a ricochet from Jerry's tinted glass, which I think is a few floors higher up.

The renovations at 225 CPW were made by the previous owner. I guess the current owner was VERY ambitious at trying to make $800,000 in three years (apartment was originally listed at 2.4m). In fact, I see apartments elsewhere on the UWS listed at the same or lower price than they were 2 years ago. (like 80 CPW)

dmf
No way that apt at 225 goes for 2mm, or anywhere near it.

I think the owner has been staring at the Beresford for so long that he is confused and thinks his address has become 211 CPW instead of 225.

Thanks, dmf13. On a more positive note, I walked up 82nd this morning and to be fair, the Beresford steps back at the 16th floor, so I can see where a unit on 15 across the street could be pretty sunny. I'm still not buying the park view though. You might get a glimpse from one end of the living room.

bfgross: what do you think it should go for?--the owner paid 1.625m 3 years ago.

There are 2 apartments at 15 west 81st whose prices also dropped to 1.995m. Has anyone seen them?

dmf:
its so hard to guess in this market, since it appears to be changing fairly dramatically in the last few months. . I mean the guy is still asking over 1500/foot for heavens sake. . Could be wrong, but what I notice right now, is that any apartment with any issues sits on the market much longer, and, depending on the owners situation, may be subject to substantial negotiation. Its a nice, but not spectacular apartment in a good building. From the price history here, the owner is clearly motivated (coming down 20% from an obviously aspirational ask price two months ago) Look at 239 CPW apt 14C, they are asking about the same per sqft and these apartments and buildings are not remotely comparable. The Alden is not the greatest building on CPW by a long shot (not a bad building and well located but its mostly 1BRs and 2BRs). But gun to my head, if this market is headed where I think it is, I doubt he gets more than 1.75. Actually I think the owner overpaid for this three years ago. For comparison, take a look at the apt in the building that closed for 1.99m on 10/07. On the tenth floor. Newly renovated kitchen. Same square footage. And DRAMATIC and DIRECT park views. That was the peak of the market. How could someone possibly pay the same for apt 1521 with no real view? You agree?

bfgross: I think that unit on 10 was significantly smaller, but I see your point.

dmf13: I hope to visit those two J units at 15 West 81st as soon as they drop by another 30%. Same problem there as a lot of the apartments we've been discussing on this thread: wildly aspirational pricing for properties that lack the one feature that makes their addresses so attractive - in this case, a view of the Museum.

w81:
two points:
on 255 CPW: the 10th floor unit is adverstised as 1380 square feet and the current 15th floor unit is advertised at 1300 square feet. Both advertised as two bedrooms although the 10th floor appears to have and extra half bath. So seemingly very little difference in size. Makes me thik even more that the 1521 owner overpaid. Could easily make a case for the clearing price to be about what he paid three years ago.

on 15 west 81: I know its an Emory Roth building and all, but every single apartment in that building seems to have one exposure, and if its not south facing I cant see paying up for the name of the architect. The fact is, its a handsome, midblock building by a famous prewar architect, but not worth the premium (at least to me) unless you are talking about a high floor with a Museum view. I dont know about you, but I really shy away from apartments that dont have at least two real exposures. Just feels claustrauphobic i guess. Maybe Ive just lived here too long and Im picky.

Does anyone know anything about the following?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/184477-coop-417-riverside-drive-morningside-heights-manhattan

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/110017-coop-417-riverside-drive-morningside-heights-manhattan

bfgross: Right you are - the footprint on that comp is very similar to the current listing. Good catch. We'll see how far it falls before it finds its level.

I understand all of your viewpoints on views in well located buildings, but isn't the address and building worth something in the asking price?

EAO:
Absolutely an address and a building is worth something, no one is arguing that. Thats why an 1300 sq ft 2BR apartment in 15 W81 sells for 1300-1500 per sqft whereas a classic six of 1900 sq ft in a random building on WEA more like 1100-1300 psqft.

I think the point W81 and I are trying to make is, that as a (hopefully) savvy potential real estate buyer, the real upside to the fancier building along the park or river in addition to their services, is their pontential for views. Apartments with views will hold value better than any other type of apartment, and frankly I have no interest in paying up for a dark apartment with a bad layout in a great building. Those are the apartments, that, in a bad real estate market, get killed. I think we are on the verge of seeing a lot of that now.

My last comment brings up another point that comes to mind as a corollary. I have never understood why the market values park facing apartments on very low floors so highly. Basically on the second third or fourth floors you are staring at street level and the base of a lot of trees. Clearly they arent as highly valued as ones on higher floors but tend to be much more highly valued than apartments in the back or sides. I just never really got that.

OK, but in a bad economy, which do you think would fare better, an apartment in a more fringe area with good views or an apartment in a hot location with no views ( assuming a decent floorplan and that the windows are not all facing brick walls)?

ECO: In a bad economy I think location trumps all else, but the original discussion was a little more subtle than that: we were talking about the difference between a mediocre apartment in a fancy building and a beautiful apartment in a less fancy (but still nice) building. In that case I think the market values them about even but for me, a good but not great building in a good area will suffice if the apartment is great.

Does anyone have a view on whether Tribeca will soften?

I am all for a quality apartment in good locations. The problem is is that these apartments are in high demand and are priced accordingly. So, if you have to make a compromise and want to make a solid investment, what do you sacrifice??

I would sacrifice size over location or apartment quality

bfgross and West81st you seem to know the UWS really well- where are the garages near 15 West 81st? I only found on on W 83rd by the Alden which was full and then drove around and around and didn't see any others nearby. The other area I am considering is the 60s between CPW and COlumbus--there seems to be a lot more parking garages.

Thanks

Anyone seen 330 Wrst 72nd?

dmf: there are multiple garages on 83rd street between columbus and amsterdam.

We looked at an apartment in 330 W 72nd last Spring. It was on the market forever and eventually sold. South facing apartments have a wonderful view of Lincoln Towers and Mr. Trump. Yum.

That far down W. 72nd is really cold in the winter when the wind blows in off the river, which is most of the time. I am not sure how the closure of the off ramp from west side highway and plan to extend Riverside Drive south has affected and/or will affect pedestrian life. It might be disruptive for the next couple of years.

drg - Thanks! Any thoughts on 15 west 72nd?

I have never looked at 15 W. 72nd. Obviously nice location near the park and subway, but I don't know anything about it. Just not my style from the outside.

srb162 & drg - My daughter lives on 72nd between WEA & RSD. Her bedroom faces 72nd and the park/river.They love to look at the windows with their binoculars, it's really addictive. I was worried about the wind when she moved there from Col.& 68th st., but it's not as bad in the winter as I thought,and I've lived in the SW for 36 yrs and hate the wind/cold. The traffic getting on the WSH is not bad at all, we'll have to see what happens if they re-open the off ramp. The transp.is the great, buses going everywhere, easy access to all parts of the city. Loads of shopping, my husband loves all the hardware stores, not to mention close to Fairway.Parking is not too bad either. This is a very family oriented area, lots of children in most of the bldgs. on this street. In fact, there are lots of twins in my daughter's bldg. I'm keeping my fingers crossed! Sponsor units have come up there recently.

dmf13: bfgross is right. 83rd between Columbus and Amsterdam is your best bet. Also check 80th/83rd between Amsterday and B'way. Of course, there's a garage under the Planetarium right across 81st, but I think the hours are limited.

srb162: 15 West 72nd is quite nice. Not my taste, but if you want an East-Sidey post-war building on the West Side, it seems like a good choice.

Hey, EAO: 800 WEA #10C is now asking $1.785M. Are you still in the game there?

West81st I passed. I had actually an accepted offer at $1,850... obviously, I would have left some money on the table.

...and you will have the unusual privilege of finding out exactly how much. Good luck with the next stage of the hunt.

Good luck