powerhouse LIC ANY THOUGHTS

nyc10022, you are stating personal preference as fact. I have no issue with people that want to live in FiDi or 90th and york jsut to be able to claim that they live in Manhattan; however, Plenty of people see right past that and would prefer to live in an area that has better access to the places that they want to be near (in my opinion, LIC is a better location than FiDi or the "new" upper east side --- I laugh when people call 80/90s the upper east...most snobs, which are the people that you are relating to when you say that "LIC will always be in queens" would consider the 80s/90s Harlem and FiDi an extension of the battery park landfill where they go to work before they come home to their park avenue apratment after they are done) ... or Turtle Bay the place where the bridge and tunnel crouwd settle down so that they can claim that they live in manhattan ... whereas, most New Yorks look at them and still think that they live in marginal areas. Anyhow, i am not saying that I agree with those steryotypes, I am jsut saying that it's what you sound like. And for you to call LIC marginal, is jsut the same as me or anyone else calling all of those other places marginal.

So enjoy your ground floor apartment with shuttered retail by you in FiDi for 800psf and let the people who plan to live in LIC with all of their own pros in cons live in peace.

> And many people would prefer living in LIC rather than FiDi. You get more space for your money

As a response, that is sort of contradictory. We're talking about value and where prices will be, and if your logic is "LIC is more desirable because its cheaper" then, you are sort of proving the point. If it is supposed to be "cheaper" and the "more exensive" is now cheaper, then bargains become bigger bargains...

lobo, I think they're all marginal. But there is absolutely a difference between marginal manhattan and marginal outer boroughs... LIC is significantly cheaper than a DUMBO, for instance...

> And many people would prefer living in LIC rather than FiDi. You get more space for your money

I believe the logic here is flawed. We're talking about where prices will be, and really if LIC should be cheaper than FiDi, and if your logic is "LIC is more desirable because its cheaper" then haven't you just proved the point?

lobo, I think they're all marginal neighborhoods. But there is absolutely a difference between marginal manhattan and marginal outer boroughs... LIC is significantly cheaper than a DUMBO, for instance...

As I said, I think its all heading down, but I think neighborhoods sold as "better value than..." are probably in for a world of hurt as what they seek to replace will be brought down signficantly as well, and the replacement neighborhoods are much more likely to have the higher inventory.

BTW, if its more data you seek, also note that apartment 911 in 20 pine is now at $770 psf. There are definitely a few in the $800 and lower range... and thats just the one building I reviewed.

"BTW, if its more data you seek, also note that apartment 911 in 20 pine is now at $770 psf. There are definitely a few in the $800 and lower range... and thats just the one building I reviewed."

You're cherrypicking. The average ppsf in 20 Pine is much higher - $1286.

ummmm, first of all, DUMBO is not in Manhattan, it is in Brooklyn...
Second of all, get over the whole manhattan thing. It is a big place. When people used to pride themsleves for living in manhattan they would do so becasue they lived on 5th avenue ... now that the boundries of "Manhattan" have expanded (not literally), it is not what it used to be. hence, why people are willing to live in other places. I can live in morningside hieghts and still say that I live in Manhattan. Personally (and I know that there are others that agree) I would consider marginal areas outside of manhattan before I would consider many in Manhattan.

Sure, if I could live on 67th and 5th I would, but since I can't ... I would choose LIC over 80th and york (or first or second), I would choose it over FiDi, I would choose it over the far upper west side, I would choose it over hells kitchen, I would choose it over murray hill.

And not based on price, becasue I prefer it to those places.

Anyhow, the point is that you are entitled to your opinion, but don't state it as fact.

Just to add, anyone who is claiming that DUMBO is in Manhattan is clearly not qualified to speak about the outer boroughs. Either way, back to the point of FiDi prices vs. LIC prices -- which, no, is not the reason that I would choose to live in one place over the other -- I just wanted to clear the air.

Instead of cherry picking apartments let's just look at the numbers on this very site. Below is median price and inventory for LIC and FiDi. You can't really argue the numbers. The median price is nearly double!

FiDi Median price per ft²: $1,314
Inventory: 717 listings

Median price per ft²: $729
Inventory:483 listings

lower inventory in LIC, lower price psf -- and, in my OPINION, a better place to live.

I gave several factors why someone would prefer LIC over FiDi, and price was just one. The point is that in addition to better pricing, there are non-price reasons that many people prefer LIC over FiDi. But that was a nice try to change the discussion from your false claim that FiDi apartments are similar in price to LIC condos.

lobo, in nyc10022's defense, I don't think he was saying Dumbo is in Manhattan, but was comparing outer borough neighborhoods. I'm pretty sure he actually lived there at one point, no? That said, he's very eager to declare that the market is already down 12% (which, as I've pointed out to him, is only from one report, whereas Streeteasy and Corcoran have quite different conclusions), so not really surprising he'd latch on to any piece of data that might support that conclusion. From what I'm seeing, we're not there yet. Let's not jump the gun.

Powerhouse closings supposedly to begin...

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/12/11/curbedwire_powerhouse_almost_charged_marx_brothers_place_is_no_laughing_matter.php

BTW, note that in the 6 weeks since, the 12% decline number was surpassed.... and FiDi rentals have hit the $2k range...

Can I here from people that live here? Does it have a pool on the website it doesn't look like they have one but on other sites it says they do?

hear

The remaining units have gone rental, check corcoran...

Current prices are already 15-20% lower than last year. Anyone who put 10% down and closed at last year's prices are already upside down on their mortgage -- owe more than the value of their units. This will lead to foreclosure and short sales in the building in the near future.

You'd think there was a housing bust or something...

Rentals listings for this building
SAVE RSS Active Listings (27)
$4,500
50-09 2nd Street 3 beds 1,500 ft²
$4,500
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 4,500 ft²
$4,000
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,357 ft²
$4,000
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,201 ft²
$3,950
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,263 ft²
$3,714
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,357 ft²
$3,670
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,187 ft²
$3,521
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,333 ft²
$3,500
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 1,173 ft²
$3,450
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,173 ft²
$3,400
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,232 ft²
$3,342
50-09 2nd Street 3 beds 1,173 ft²
$3,200
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,013 ft²
$3,017
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 1,006 ft²
↓ $2,995
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds
$2,971
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 880 ft²
$2,878
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 1,001 ft²
↑ $2,750
50-09 2nd Street 2 beds 947 ft²
$2,650
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 859 ft²
$2,600
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 888 ft²
↓ $2,600
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 830 ft²
$2,350
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 759 ft²
$2,350
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 759 ft²
$2,300
50-09 2nd Street 757 ft²
$2,050
50-09 2nd Street 1 bed 608 ft²
$1,950
50-09 2nd Street 608 ft²
↑ $1,900
50-09 2nd Street 613 ft²

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/50_09-2nd-street-long_island_city

yes too high very high
LIC will go down very soon just wait
developers are trying to push you to buy at very high price and close the Manhattan because you have a view (temporary by the way) but that means any place around the island should be price close to Manhattan :) thats a joke
500 thats what you should get right now and probably more or less after summer depending on where everything goes.
queens is queens and thats it.

the tennis court will be gone it was confirmed by the tennis club if any doubt go ask them. so dont pay for the view pay for the place and keep in mind the south side of the building is facing the most ugly side of LIC that will away in many years so you will keep an ugly view for a while.

good luck

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4777-powerhouse-condo-not-selling-well-financial-difficulties-arise?page=1

"LIC will go down very soon just wait "

Good one fucking moron Mike77...
3 months ago we are going down very soon????

Prices are still in the 600s for PH.

Hey InFamous thanks for the compliment

Yes some units were sold well below 600 just after that and one at 515 psf i believe so not too bad

now the price is back up to higher than 600 psf as you are saying that is amazing that people did buy at that high price but i am sure they were told all the problems thats why they agreed to pay a premium psf. i would do the same pay extra for a bunch of lies that makes sense.

So how many units are being sold at this price cause so far rentals are hot at the power house. If you were talking about 2 units a month then it is irrelevant but i am sure you know better you made the sales :)

Pleasure to see your language is amazingly the same as the power broker of LIC called CarolSt and your data from ericho75 the other power broker.

If the price is doing so well and so many people are coming to buy at the power house then half of it would not be RENTALS!?!? Buyers be aware of all this make sure to negotiate carefully and remember whatever the power broker tells you at least half is a lie. so do your homework and pay the right price not what they advertise, LIC is a great area and i think in 5-10 years from now with all new construction the area will be very pleasant.

They say super cool view, lights, top appliances, last intercom technology (concierge) etc.... double check all what they say cause some buyers got misled and now are not so happy. Some stuff will be fixed as they can be (ph takes a year to fix it by the way) but some cannot and they pay for it so its not so cool.

PowerHouse was advertise as a super high budget Condo and now it looks like they cutting cost over the board to a low budget so why pay a high price!? think about it

You're working overtime to get prices to 400 psf.
First you were spotted on the rooftop this weekend spreading false rumors and today you bump 2 threads on the demise of the Powerhouse.

Funny stuff.

mike makes a good point--if a big chunk of the apts at ph are now rentals, anyone buying currently who wants to sell within the next many years will always be competing with the developer--all those rentals will need to be sold as the leases expire peiodically over the next several years--yikes--maybe the projects will be in by then and there'll be less construction dust, noise and congestion?

now start cussin---it just keeps me interested in checkin your reality

very entertaining

mike77, are you the old dco? Your posts are very similar.

Question. I readily admit i don't know that much about this development. But logistically, it seems to me as though it must have some preapproved lender program for buyers to get mortgages with the rentals that are occurring. So what happens at the end of the day, assuming the developer sells half and rents half? Are you shit out of luck if you need to resell? How will future buyers get mortgages once the developer is done? (granted, that may be never, but).

I don't think he's dco: he's not negative about all of LIC, just the PH.

"So what happens at the end of the day, assuming the developer sells half and rents half? "

AR, there are 4 prefer lenders for the Powerhouse. Citibank, Wells Fargo and 2 private lenders.
It's a COMPLETE lie that the PH has 50% of their units currently in rental.

@LICComment no i am not old dco whoever this is but i am sure a little old man :)

I do not trash the Powerhouse, as said before the ph has some good and bad. i happen to have seen most of the cons (know lot of owners there). most of them are facts not speculation. i would recommend anyone to check before buying all the facts and also to have a walk around the building. you should even ask people living there what they think that could help your decision. then with facts and reality on hand you can make your own decision on how much you are willing to pay.

I think LIC is a great place to be and it was fun to play tennis there, i would rather keep seeing tennis courts and not high rise buildings right in front of the powerhouse but it is a FACT this is going to happen very soon so dont buy for the view as i said before thats all.

LIC will grow in the next few years i have no doubt about that many more condos coming etc... as a matter of fact most of areas around nyc will keep growing thats simply logic but at a slower pace due to the economy situation.

@ericho75 not sure if it is a lie or not about 50% rentals but it sure is close to it. if you do know more info as you probably work there feel free to give the numbers and clarify/correct this number nothing wrong with this.

the gist of the question was: once the ph is completely occupied with some large percentage of apts occ by renters, and with the preferred lenders no longer in the picture; how will buyers of secondary sales finance their apts?

have at it jerkoffco

Mike77, I think most of your comments are right. I probably need your help about PH. Is there any way that I can contact you?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4777-powerhouse-condo-not-selling-well-financial-difficulties-arise

Very nice. Good job people.

1009 got sold for 620 psf.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/421521-condo-50-09-2nd-street-long-island-city

To all the haters, any thoughts as to why prices are floating back up? And when are construction going to start on the west side? The tennis bubble came down in the first week of August, it's almost October and the deflated bubble is still sitting there with no activity.

Please enlighten me.

right.. so a top-floor unit sells for 18% off ask...this is good news how? Buyers will point to a "premium unit" that went for 18% off ask, and demand 25% off ask for a less desirable unit.

Case in point. Extrapolate that 18% to a normal unit - say Apt 320, 851 sq.ft asking 555k - and you get $534/sqft.

$534/sqft = P/H's sweetspot

Figures. More idiotic wishfully dreaming.

Then explain this.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/918825

2nd floor unit sold for $619 psf.

Bell curve of financial stupidity?

Haha... Ericho cheering $600psf for a high floor in PH. This is hilarious! What is your cost Ericho? $800psf? or even $900psf? You're still 30% underwater!

Oh and about that #1009 that closed for $920,000 on 9/4/09. Did you bother to check #1109 closed at $981,000 back in 5/14/09? $60k for four month. Yay! Great investment! It just means prices are still going down in the building. Each successive sell leads to lower prices.

Well, you should go eat your crow because you were one of the idiots screaming for $400 psf by the fall.
You're DEAD WRONG....as always Georgie.

Btw, it doesn't matter what i paid. I'm a happy owner and you're a desperate renter looking for entry. We know who you are.

"Oh and about that #1009 that closed for $920,000 on 9/4/09. Did you bother to check #1109 closed at $981,000 back in 5/14/09? $60k for four month. Yay! Great investment! It just means prices are still going down in the building. Each successive sell leads to lower prices."

You're a complete moron. 1109 is a penthouse unit with outdoor space.

ericho75,
"To all the haters, any thoughts as to why prices are floating back up? And when are construction going to start on the west side? The tennis bubble came down in the first week of August, it's almost October and the deflated bubble is still sitting there with no activity.
Please enlighten me."

Construction work takes a few months to prepare. It takes more time to complete. The truth is that there are construction projects in front of the powerhouse.Do you understand? Please don't even think we are the haters. We are all human beings. We just want to protect our rights. Please don't use any unreasonable and illegal force to push us to close a deal. In this world, there is no perminent friends and no perminent enemies, especially in business.

$60k for a balcony. Wow, that's a great deal Eric!!

dear eric,

so youre taking comfort that the biggest subsidized housing project in the history of the city is going to go slowly? and that it will go slowly right in front of youe home?

how does that benefit you?

sicerely, a desperate renter looking for entry

LOL...i love it.
All the same knuckleheads.

"Btw, it doesn't matter what i paid. I'm a happy owner and you're a desperate renter looking for entry. We know who you are."

Kai, you know who I am? really? I sure hope so! I'm in the building all the time. We passed each other quite a few times already and we even had a nice conversation about Singapore.

Don't even think you are smart. The way you are doing business makes everyone so bitter including yourself.

You may have a total different way to make the same results

Sorry, you may have a totally different way to make the same results.

Everything i said over the last few months happened.
Prices are in the 600 psf as stated and trending UP since Spring.
They are selling about 2 units per week over the past 3 months (check out number of closing in Acris). There are a number of units that have closed and haven't shown up on Acris yet. All this dismiss talk of the Powerhouse Condo has been wrong and unwarranted. If you compare sales of any condos in all of NYC, you'll see that PH has outsold almost everyone of them. Now, ask yourself this...why would a new development as poor as some have stated here, is one of the top sellers in NYC. Confused? Well, i'm sure the bashers are.

The sales team over there have done a tremendous job and i applaud them. Good job!

dear eric,
this knucklehead desperate renter looking for entry into ph would like to know why you think that a slow start to construction of the biggest subsidized housing project in the history of the city directlty in front of your home will improve qol as well as property vals ther.
yours, knucklehead

ps did your lawyer review this shit with you prior to your perchase? did he speak of the serious risks that what has happend to you might happen? and you took the plunge anyway? greed is a powerful motivator

pps knuckleheads like me enjoy correcting the record that is put out by greater fools like you who are hoping more greater fools come along to help with your greed-driven problems

ppps these runon sentences are fun

Subsidized housing with water front parks and schools?
Awesome!!!

It is not a good job. We know you work hard everyday, but you didn't tell us the truth. Timing is very important for a business person. You and your team including developer, attorney,and so on didn't or doesn't tell us the truth. That is the concern.

d7312009,
I'm at a lost with you. Please explain.

>Figures. More idiotic wishfully dreaming.
>Then explain this.
>http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/918825
>2nd floor unit sold for $619 psf.

ericoho - sometimes i cant tell whether you're genuinely idiotic, or just deceptive.

how about the fact that this unit has a 300sq. ft terrace that you conveniently forgot to include in your calc? what's the per sq. foot then? $550?

why would ANYONE boast that their condo are selling units with a 20% discount? why dont they lower prices by 90%, im sure ALL the units will sell by tomorrow! great job sales team!

doh!

doh!

http://mooreslore.corante.com/archives/images/homer%20simpson.gif

back off on ericho.. .he's my knucklehead...

ericho75, you should know what I am talking about.

d7312009,
I seriously don't. I've been busy at work and out of touch. What exactly are you talking about?

"back off on ericho.. .he's my knucklehead..."

aahhh......if it isn't DEATH himself. Please, don't ruin this one...

You are PH Sales Director, Am I Right? You work hard and you are trying to get every deal done. But, think over what you say and what you do may hurt or destory a person or his/her family.

"Btw, it doesn't matter what i paid. I'm a happy owner "

All evidence to the contrary, of course. Happy owners wouldn't be posting here daily and taking out venom on others.

I remember all the other "happy owners" like SteveF screaming at us how happy they were.

I have to figure the folks who didn't lost 20% leveraged are happier... don't you think?

ericho75

Everything i said over the last few months happened.
Prices are in the 600 psf as stated and trending UP since Spring.
They are selling about 2 units per week over the past 3 months (check out number of closing in Acris). There are a number of units that have closed and haven't shown up on Acris yet. All this dismiss talk of the Powerhouse Condo has been wrong and unwarranted. If you compare sales of any condos in all of NYC, you'll see that PH has outsold almost everyone of them. Now, ask yourself this...why would a new development as poor as some have stated here, is one of the top sellers in NYC. Confused? Well, i'm sure the bashers are.

The sales team over there have done a tremendous job and i applaud them. Good job!

I believe the following:

If Prices are in the 500 psf, PH will be one of the top sellers in New York State.

If Prices are in the 400 psf, PH will be one of the top sellers in the United States.

If Prices are in the 300 psf, PH will be one of the top sellers in the world.

I hope PH Prices will be higher and higher, and eventually those underwater owners will make money.

Thank you for comments, but don't fuck me.

> and eventually those underwater owners will make money.

Only if you don't understand what "making money" means.

Where is erich75? I am waiting for your comments.

oh, erich 75 is too tired. Go home for dinner.

so whats new at the PowerHouse?

i think if you know the place like i do and been there for well over a year then you KNOW that nothing is NEW "same all..." i guess if the price would have been more reasonable and they would have lower the price like i used to mention (500 to 600) then and only then the building would be sold out or close to it. maintenance would cover the cost, developer would have made let say 100mil instead of the 110mil he was looking for :) and now because of greed the building is just an unfinished ugly powerhouse, low tech, soon blocked by buildings.... not cool mister GREED

Anybody know what's the latest scoop on this building? Have the sound issues been resolved or are they isolated incidents? Is the new hunter's point project going to block the view on the roof?