building at 609 Columbus Avenue

See:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/ViewImage?Doc_ID=2012122400052001
which is a recent document amending previous "indentures" under which the building owner (Turin Housing Development Fund Company Inc.) does appear to owe NYC a significant sum dating back to the 1970s.

The previous documents should also be available in ACRIS, and you can see all the other financing/transactions.

So how does this "indenture" affect the buyer? I see someone is asking for an all cash deal of 399K on one of the apartments. Does the "identure" mean it's hard to find a bank that will give a mortgage, so they're asking for cash?

Did you ask the seller/broker what they know? They should at least be able to discuss the reasons cash is requested.

It does sound like there's a complication of some sort, but it could be any of a number of aspects -- who owes the money (coop vs sponsor), the governmental nature of the loan, or the magnitude of the loan in relation to the building's income or asset value.

I don't think this forum is going to provide the detailed answers you would need in order to proceed. Seek advice from an attorney who has experience in coops with HPD involvement.

Just found out that the coop was able to get a loan from a bank to pay off the money owed the city. However, I see that the sale of the apartment in question was taken off the market quite a while ago. There haven't been any sales in quite a while.

There are 15 sales all of a sudden. Guessing they are owned by the coop, should get them 7-8 million.

Why would you think the are owned by the Coop?

We are looking at bidding on one of the 2 bedrooms. We are definitely wondering if the coop owns these and who makes the decision (and how many other people are making bids)

So many questions but maybe one of you lives here and answer one of two?

1. If several people bid at asking, how is it decided? (first come first serve? by financials?). Are there bidding wars? are there units that have to reduce asking price? (ie is it like a typical coop?)
2. Can one make an offer on more than one apartment? Just to say, we can take either one...
3. We were told by an agent that the reason so many came on market all at once is bec there was some sort of issue with the city and there was a moratorium on sales for five years!

That is pretty scary since of course we'd want to keep the apartment (and even leave it to our son one day) but if we HAD to move (maybe at some point one of his needs nursing home and we need the money from the sale, even with a flip tax, how can sales be stopped? Did the coop buy them out?

4. We were told that the HDFC will "expire" in 20 years and it can then choose whether to remain a coop or become a market value coop. Anyone know about this? (I have no idea how that impacts the maintenance, flip taxes, value etc)

5. Somewhere in the listings, it was said there were 2 elevators. How can that be? with 188 units, that is a kind of hard to imagine (we live in a 2 elevator building with just over 100 units and when one goes down it is a nightmare

6. (I know so many questions!) What does the new capitol expense project for facade and common areas include, replace old elevators (are the old?), take off some of the bizarre slats over some portions of the windows?

TY so much if you can answer ANY of my questions

These two bedrooms are an incredible buy (even though they are mostly in estate condition) an

Hi Curiousaboutthis,

I had a death in the family this week- so really not up to spending more than a couple of minutes on to this - but on Question 4 - While it's true that an HDFC can technically go market rate upon expiration of their regulatory agreement, it's very rare that this actually happens. Why is it rare- well the HDFC would lose it's discounted taxes, discounted oil, discounted water/sewer bills when they chose to go market rate. This would cause monthly maintenance to jump- and unless most owners are in favor of market rate in exchange for higher monthlies- most don't chose to go market rate.

I have a recent podcast episode I recorded on HDFC's - check out Harlem Stories on Apple podcasts or Spotify and it might help answer some general questions you might have.

Sorry for your loss and my deepest condolences.

curiousaboutthis,
A lot of people buy into HDFC because they are blinded by prices and overlook the issues. If problems had gotten bad enough that there was a moratorium on sales for 5 years and now the rats are scurrying for the exits you you want to become a potentially trapped rat? Because I'd be willing to bet that they haven't totally fixed all the issues which caused that.

Sorry to hear that, Adam.

Turin House just signed a 30-year regulatory agreement with HPD on March 11, 2022. There are restrictions, i.e., you cannot own property within 100 miles from Turin House. Turin House tried to privatize but could not. We are an article 11 HDFC and were originally under a Regulatory Agreement with HUD that expired in 2012. We will never privatize.
The new Captial Improvement fixes areas in the building, court yard, new elevators, new breezeway stairs, facade, new windows, asbestos removal. (Yes we have asbestos in the building and the seller MUST disclose this information to the buyer).
If you have any questions please call Ms. Sherill Henry, from HCCI the monitor for the building is and handles all sales.
Sherill Henry
Sr. VP, Real Estate Development
Harlem Congregations for Community Improvement, Inc
256 West 153rd Street
New York NY 10039
(P): (212) 281-4887, ext: 229

You can only leave the apartment to your son as an asset, not that he can live in the unit unless he lives with you for his life and is on your stock. It is really complicated and in the HPD Regulatory Agreement.

I'm sorry for your loss.

To NYC streets: I am unclear when you say that it could be left to son as an asset. Isn't that how it should be left?

So do we have to put his name on the stock with us? (he is under 18 now)

Hi Curiousaboutthis.
If your son is under age he cannot be put on the stock.
The best bet is to call Sherill Henry she will advise you on EVERYTHING you need to know.
Thanks

https://housingconnect.nyc.gov/PublicWeb/details/3532

Nycstreets2012- Please explain where the sales prices are coming from.

The above "waiting list lottery" seems fishy.

Look at the active sales prices on streeteasy and look at the "faux" recorded sales prices on NYC transfer website (ACRIS NYC) . Note each "transaction" was only a 1 page affidavit related to a SMOKE DETECTOR AFFIDAVIT , which has a sales price attached for approx $3,000.

It seem like HPD and the HDFC are artificially marketing the units to market, without actual transactions.

Block: 1203 Lot:1

To nycstreets2012, thanks for the information. I called Sherill today because I applied for a lottery apartment, and she told me "she doesn't know anything" about asbestos and "all I know is the city regulations, there are a lot of renovations in the building, and the city requires all materials to be abated before renovations can begin".