Hi everyone, This is (yet another) question about coop vs. condos. Like many people, I want to buy a condo for its liberal subletting policy, but there just aren't that many condos to choose from. I'm in the market to buy a 2 bedroom. Right now I'm single and I wouldn't mind renting out the second bedroom to a friend and having the friend pay me the rent. I know that coops are strict about... [more]
Hi everyone,
This is (yet another) question about coop vs. condos. Like many people, I want to buy a condo for its liberal subletting policy, but there just aren't that many condos to choose from. I'm in the market to buy a 2 bedroom. Right now I'm single and I wouldn't mind renting out the second bedroom to a friend and having the friend pay me the rent. I know that coops are strict about subleasing, etc. But does this strictness apply to the situation I just described—i.e., a single man with a roommate who splits the rent? Every time I have a new roommate, would this roommate have to be approved by the coop board? What if this roommate stays only for 6 months? What if it's an informal arrangement? What if it's a lover who splits the rent? In fact, how would my situation be different from a girlfriend/boyfriend who splits the rent? Should I buy coop and just NOT MENTION THIS TO THE BOARD? Or find a roommate but say that he or she is my lover and just have the doormen and board members think that, WOW, This dude is a player, LOL. By the way, I probably am not going to do this for that long--I just want to keep open this option of having a roommate and having him/her split the rent....Or should I just be safe and buy CONDO only?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Not a Player,
Just a Frustrated Condo-Seeker
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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"Every time I have a new roommate, would this roommate have to be approved by the coop board?"
No.
***
"Should I buy coop and just NOT MENTION THIS TO THE BOARD?"
No, you should not do this.
Can you afford to buy the co-op on your own, without the financial help of whatever rent this "roommate" will bring? If so, there's no need to tell the board anything. As long as it's YOU in the unit, you can live with anyone you want.
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Response by aalsberg
over 12 years ago
Posts: 99
Member since: Mar 2011
Just buy a condo you could and probably would violate the lease and thus be evicted from your co-op. Just not worth it when your spending so much money to risk a million for maybe an extra $2K a month.
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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
That said, however, it's extremely unlikely that any board would approve you if you need rent money from a roommate to make the numbers work.
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Response by Sonya_D
over 12 years ago
Posts: 547
Member since: Jan 2013
What you are describing is not really subleasing. It is having a roommate (or significant other).
That being said, it is ILLEGAL for anyone -- coop board, president, or anyone else -- to forbid you from having this roommate, as per NY State law (RPL section 235). Doesn't matter if it's a coop or condo. As long as you are living there as your primary residence as well, you can have someone else there too. They do NOT have to be on the lease, proprietary or otherwise. Whether you are collecting money from them ("rent," "favors," they "cook and clean for you," or whatever else you want to call it), it is YOUR business. They can stay 1 month or 10 years, doesn't matter, as long as you're there too. They can stay 6 months, and you charge them for 3 months. It's up to you and the agreement you have with them.
To get to this point, it is best if you have already moved in. When applying for a coop, DONT tell them you have this in mind. DONT tell them you need a roommate to make ends meet. They have no business knowing. And it will hurt your chances of being approved. Once you're in, however, it would be POLITE to tell them about your upcoming situation, but they cannot forbid you to have a roommate once you've moved in.
If, financially, you NEED this roommate to pay for this apartment, it might be wise to look for a cheaper apartment.
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Response by crescent22
over 12 years ago
Posts: 953
Member since: Apr 2008
People seem to forget that condos cost $100-300 more per square foot. Factor that in.
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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"To get to this point, it is best if you have already moved in. When applying for a coop, DONT tell them you have this in mind. DONT tell them you need a roommate to make ends meet. They have no business knowing."
Actually, we DO have "business" knowing whether an applicant can or cannot afford to make ends meet on his or her income alone. And it will eventually come out in the board package.
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Response by Sonya_D
over 12 years ago
Posts: 547
Member since: Jan 2013
NYCMatt, agreed, hence my last paragraph. With the quote you referred to (the "they have no business knowing" part) I was really talking just about applying and being sucessful at it, not necessarily his financial stability. Sorry if I worded it awkwardly, and yes, coop boards need to know (and will find out) if the applicant can't afford it. (And saying "i need a roommate to pay for this apartment" at a board interview seems like a pretty common sense thing NOT to say, anyway).
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Response by CoyWolf
over 12 years ago
Posts: 124
Member since: Jul 2007
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all your responses. They were really helpful.
By the way, as I said in the original post, "I probably am not going to do this for that long--I just want to keep open this option of having a roommate and having him/her split the rent."
Therefore, I would NOT be doing this "to make ends meet"; I can pay for any coop or condo without a roommate, and In fact, I will be putting down 40 to 60 percent. It's just I work about 60 hours a week and, since I'm still single, I wouldn't mind having someone around when I come home from work. Plus, who wouldn't want some extra spending money?
I'm fiscally responsible. To be honest, part of me feels some compassion for the people who stretched too far for a mortgage and then lost their jobs. At the same time, part of me thinks, "Well, you should have planned better; you just can't blame "predatory" lenders ENTIRELY...You're the one who signed on the dotted line."
If only the rest of the country had the foresight to plan and have self-restraint and do risk-management....If only the rest of the country had had coop boards to monitor finances before approving every little sale in the past decade... Oh wel. end of moralizing. Thanks again everyone. Khoi
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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009
"If only the rest of the country had the foresight to plan and have self-restraint and do risk-management....If only the rest of the country had had coop boards to monitor finances before approving every little sale in the past decade."
I challenge you to find ANY co-op-approved applicant with a mortgage who can avoid defaulting after being unemployed for more than two years.
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Response by feifei
over 12 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: May 2011
I'm sharing my coop that i purchased not long ago with a roommate. And I didn't have to get approval from coop board. I asked my lawyer about this as well, and he said the same thing as NYCMatt said - as long as you live there, you can live with anyone you want.
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"Every time I have a new roommate, would this roommate have to be approved by the coop board?"
No.
***
"Should I buy coop and just NOT MENTION THIS TO THE BOARD?"
No, you should not do this.
Can you afford to buy the co-op on your own, without the financial help of whatever rent this "roommate" will bring? If so, there's no need to tell the board anything. As long as it's YOU in the unit, you can live with anyone you want.
Just buy a condo you could and probably would violate the lease and thus be evicted from your co-op. Just not worth it when your spending so much money to risk a million for maybe an extra $2K a month.
That said, however, it's extremely unlikely that any board would approve you if you need rent money from a roommate to make the numbers work.
What you are describing is not really subleasing. It is having a roommate (or significant other).
That being said, it is ILLEGAL for anyone -- coop board, president, or anyone else -- to forbid you from having this roommate, as per NY State law (RPL section 235). Doesn't matter if it's a coop or condo. As long as you are living there as your primary residence as well, you can have someone else there too. They do NOT have to be on the lease, proprietary or otherwise. Whether you are collecting money from them ("rent," "favors," they "cook and clean for you," or whatever else you want to call it), it is YOUR business. They can stay 1 month or 10 years, doesn't matter, as long as you're there too. They can stay 6 months, and you charge them for 3 months. It's up to you and the agreement you have with them.
To get to this point, it is best if you have already moved in. When applying for a coop, DONT tell them you have this in mind. DONT tell them you need a roommate to make ends meet. They have no business knowing. And it will hurt your chances of being approved. Once you're in, however, it would be POLITE to tell them about your upcoming situation, but they cannot forbid you to have a roommate once you've moved in.
If, financially, you NEED this roommate to pay for this apartment, it might be wise to look for a cheaper apartment.
People seem to forget that condos cost $100-300 more per square foot. Factor that in.
"To get to this point, it is best if you have already moved in. When applying for a coop, DONT tell them you have this in mind. DONT tell them you need a roommate to make ends meet. They have no business knowing."
Actually, we DO have "business" knowing whether an applicant can or cannot afford to make ends meet on his or her income alone. And it will eventually come out in the board package.
NYCMatt, agreed, hence my last paragraph. With the quote you referred to (the "they have no business knowing" part) I was really talking just about applying and being sucessful at it, not necessarily his financial stability. Sorry if I worded it awkwardly, and yes, coop boards need to know (and will find out) if the applicant can't afford it. (And saying "i need a roommate to pay for this apartment" at a board interview seems like a pretty common sense thing NOT to say, anyway).
Hi everyone,
Thank you for all your responses. They were really helpful.
By the way, as I said in the original post, "I probably am not going to do this for that long--I just want to keep open this option of having a roommate and having him/her split the rent."
Therefore, I would NOT be doing this "to make ends meet"; I can pay for any coop or condo without a roommate, and In fact, I will be putting down 40 to 60 percent. It's just I work about 60 hours a week and, since I'm still single, I wouldn't mind having someone around when I come home from work. Plus, who wouldn't want some extra spending money?
I'm fiscally responsible. To be honest, part of me feels some compassion for the people who stretched too far for a mortgage and then lost their jobs. At the same time, part of me thinks, "Well, you should have planned better; you just can't blame "predatory" lenders ENTIRELY...You're the one who signed on the dotted line."
If only the rest of the country had the foresight to plan and have self-restraint and do risk-management....If only the rest of the country had had coop boards to monitor finances before approving every little sale in the past decade... Oh wel. end of moralizing. Thanks again everyone. Khoi
"If only the rest of the country had the foresight to plan and have self-restraint and do risk-management....If only the rest of the country had had coop boards to monitor finances before approving every little sale in the past decade."
I challenge you to find ANY co-op-approved applicant with a mortgage who can avoid defaulting after being unemployed for more than two years.
I'm sharing my coop that i purchased not long ago with a roommate. And I didn't have to get approval from coop board. I asked my lawyer about this as well, and he said the same thing as NYCMatt said - as long as you live there, you can live with anyone you want.