Hamilton Heights keeps getting nicer

It's not so much that a third restaurant is soon opening up there, but rather the excitement of summer finally being here, the birds chirping, the greater number of corner boys, the billions of gallons of ememrgency water gushing from every fire hydrant 24/7 with no children in sight, the filthy spilled sodas and other trash strewn massively all over the streets and sidewalks.

And the knowledge that when the temperatures rise four more degrees, to 97, the gunfire begins.

How exciting lives are in Hamilton Heights. And they keep getting nicer.

The Grange is already open- though, at the moment it's the bar portion only. They are waiting for Con-Ed to turn on the gas to open the kitchen- and this should be sometime in the next week or two.

http://www.marcussamuelsson.com/community-2/the-grange-bar-and-eatery-opens-this-month-in-hamilton-heights

I agree....demographics seem to be improving as well.....even the Broadway/Amsterdam corridor, although it is still a bit gritty.

Thanks, Semerun--you always have the most up to date intel. I can't wait for the kitchen to open as well.

And Alanhart, I also walked through an open hydrant (moderately open, with kids playing) around the corner on my way home. It was very refreshing. No trash anywhere in sight.

Amsterdam from 138th to about 148th is going through a radical retail transformation. It's not difficult to see why- commercial rents are about $35/sq ft on Amsterdam vs. $75/sq ft for the retail space across the street from Harlem Public on Broadway. I heard that there was likely an Indian restaurant opening soon on Amsterdam and 138th. A few months ago Coccola opened on Amsterdam and 139th. A new bicycle shop opened around the corner from Coccola. The Grange just opened on 141st and Amsterdam. Il Caffe Latte will be opening soon on 145th Street near Amsterdam. At 147th Street and Amsterdam will be a new Bistro and wine bar called Amsterdam Social. I also noticed some nice looking furniture going in on the corner of 148th and Amsterdam- but I have no intel as to what that retail space will be. The Broadway corridor is also starting to change- I noticed the first Newmark Knight Frank commerical space recently @ 143rd street- and across from that is a new place I am not sure is open yet called Solace or something like that. Add the recent juice bars, health food store, wine/art gallery that have all opened recently- and you can see how quickly the neighborhood is starting to change.

"I also walked through an open hydrant (moderately open, with kids playing) around the corner on my way home. It was very refreshing."

Good for you!

Let's open up a hydrant on YOUR block so you can see firsthand how "refreshing" it is to have no water pressure in your apartment.

THere will also be a restaurant at 150th and Amsterdam called Farrafina----it will be French-Carribean food

Now there just needs to be a better grocery store....it would be great if Trader Joe's would come to the neighborhood!

LOLOLOL!

Yeah, that'll happen.

Right after Tiffany opens a branch in the 'hood.

Why would you say that NYCMAtt, it's a lower price point than Whole foods. Also, there's already a Fairway in the neighborhood, and Fresh Direct already delivers to the neighborhood.

Fairway is in Harlem, not Hamilton Heights. And that has nothing to do with the local clientele, it has everything to do with a sweet deal it got on the property.

And "delivering" to the neighborhood is one thing. Locating a store in it is quite another.

I don't see any upscale grocery stores opening up in HamHi anytime soon.

I'm sorry to say I think Matt is right that it'll be a while before we get fancy groceries, and probably his neighborhood will have the Trader Joe's before ours does. But, who knows? Meanwhile, there are some wonderful things to buy at the big Super Compare store on 137 just up from Broadway--a staggering array of international products, for a start. And excellent prices.

Semerun, big thanks for the round up on new establishments. But--Indian at 138th? I don't think so. One whole side of the street is CCNY, and on the other side there's a park on one corner, and then a big residential building with no commercial spaces in it. Maybe south of the park? I'm going to walk to school down Amsterdam rather than Convent today to scope out all the cool stuff you mentioned. This is a sudden flowering of resources indeed.

ScaredNY, I am excited by your news of Farrafina--but I'm trying to figure out what space it'll be in. This is one block from me, so it'll be a great resource. Are you sure it's at 150th, though? Not , maybe, a little further south where the nice Middle Eastern place that closed was? Or maybe that's where Semerun says Amsterdam Social is coming. Hmmm. Confusing, but good.

And Matt--that hydrant I mentioned yesterday IS on my block and we none of us seemed to be having problems with the pressure. Just one more good point about our 'hood as compared to others, apparently. We can have it all--new restaurants, hydrant fun, and adequate water pressure inside our buildings. Life is good.

that area can never get nicer: loks at the projects

Let's correct some of the inaccuracies posted here. First off, Caonima- there are virtually no projects in Hamilton Heights. There are lots of projects slightly south of Hamilton Heights- and that is probably what you are thinking of. I am aware of 2 buildings under NYCHA in the neighborhood, but they are smaller buildings and I am not aware of them causing problems like the larger NYCHA buildings just south of Hamilton Heights.

NYCMatt, Hamilton Heights is a part of Harlem- just like Hudson Heights is part of Washington Heights. Secondly, Fairway is in Manhattanville- and is just a few blocks from Hamilton Heights. Though I do agree Fairway's choice to open a location in Manhattanville had a lot to do with the sweet deal they got on the property. They

While I don't see a Trader Joe's coming anytime soon, Whole Foods is coming to Central Harlem soon (@ 125th and Lenox). If I had said that on this board 6 or 7 years ago most people would have thought I was crazy. I suspect the retail scene in Hamilton Heights will look very different in 2-3 years compared to just 2 years ago- and we are already starting to see the change.

There will be a whole foods on 125th, a short subway ride, and that is the best you can expect for a while. But still closer than the west 90s.

The Indian place I heard about was supposed to be on the same block as Coccola- a few storefronts down- so perhaps it's midblock between 138th and 139th. Yes, you are correct- the Middle Eastern restaurant was doomed from the day it opened. Now Amsterdam Social is taking that space. They have a trumpet incorporated into their logo- so I am hoping it will host live Jazz.

As to the Water Pressure issue- you may or may not notice the difference in your home, but if the hydrants are opened without a sprinkler cap, they could be putting you in grave danger. The fire department offers free sprinkler caps and installation just for asking. If the hydrants are opened without the cap, the Fire department might not have enough pressure to fight fires. Call 3-1-1 if you see this happening and ask for a sprinkler cap instead.

Semerun is right--that Whole Foods will be a real game-changer. And let's be real--the restaurants and retail are already unrecognizably different now than they were 2-3 years ago, so of course it's likely to be yet more so 2-3 years from now. As for how to get to WF when it opens, it will be a lovely quick (10 minutes) bus ride on the #100 and 101 buses, down Amsterdam and hang a left on 125. Where do you get on the bus? Oh, at the bus stop right by the new Indian restaurant--or you can catch it further up near Amsterdam Social. Excellent.

Absolutely re hydant caps. With them, the water comes out nicely (what I was trying to describe yesterday) and without it's a scary and dangerous Niagara-like torrent. I didn't realize that Matt thought I was trying to praise dangerous practices rather than charming old-time New York ones.

It really makes me wonder why some of the Streeteasy crowd are so unable to distinguish between large and very distinct sections of Manhattan. Saying that we have projects in Hamilton Heights is kind of like talking about all the brownstones in the Financial District. Different parts of the city have different characteristics, and you'd think people interested enough in NYC matters to be regular posters here would bother to be informed. If they don't care enough to find out, well, fine, but then why do they want to talk about it? It's best to have local knowledge when opining about neighborhood-specific matters.

> The jason10006 short-bus "subway"?

Haha. The Jason Short-Bus!

Where is GuywithCat?

hot tin roof

semerun, there may be no building with an official phrase of "project" in their names, but look at the street, full of that type of people

You guys seem to know Harlem well. I am looking for 2 beds. What are your thoughts on Fredrick Douglass Blvd between 116th & 120th, Madison Avenue between 117th & 120th, around 145-148th Street between FDB & APB in terms of livability now and 5 years out? I am looking for condos but came across a few new construction coops. Do you guys know anything about these coops?

The further north you buy, the cheaper it will be, and therefore most upside potential in price, I am guessing. Everything is gentrifying, it is just a matter of time.

scarednycgal, these things go in cycles.

You're right that getting in before a neighborhood feels "comfortable" enough for people with substantial (by overall US) income and wealth is your best chance of catching a higher percentage appreciation phase.

But don't you think at some point the music will stop, and you'll be left without a chair?

Of course, that puts you in the advantageous position of being able to get to the bartender faster than everybody else.

Hi Applenyc. I am a bit pressed for time at the moment- but a quick roundup of your questions. FDB btwn 116th and 120th- largely gentrified, therefore priced accordingly. Madison btwn 117th and 120th- I am not a fan of East Harlem. I think East Harlem still has a lot of obstacles that Central and West Harlem have largely overcome. The northern stretches of Central Harlem are a bit better than East Harlem- and while the 145th-148th st corridor of FDB and ACP Blvd have changed- it's still going to take a very long time before you see the larger area change. I would also be at least a bit concerned about flooding in that area- though I think most of that issue is toward Lenox to ACP in the 140's. I like buildings such as the PS 90 Condo's..though they are very priced as if gentification has already changed the larger neighborhood. As to the new construction coops- I think I know some of the buildings you are referring to. They are either land-lease buildings or HDC mixed income buildings. Since we are talking specific buildings rather than sections of a neighborhood- specifics help. Which buildings are you refering to?

Applenyc, beware those newer-construction coops. They were generally financed via gigantic underlying mortgages. That means unusually high maintenance. That in turn pushes their sale value way down (because most people only care about their total monthly payments).

Additionally, for coops and condos alike, beware the tax abatements and exemptions. If you plan on keeping the apartment for even a few years, and you buy something with less than (my rough rule) 15 years left on any part of the exemption/abatement, you will be selling to people who see the taxes ramping up "soon" (a variable concept). Again, they'll be willing to pay less on the purchase price, because all they care about are monthlies in the foreseeable future.

Alanhart makes a good point- many (though not all) of the newer construction coops had gigantic underlying mortgages (i.e. Madison Ave coop's I think Apple was referring to).

While I do agree the tax abatements adn exemptions Alanhart points out- not all are equal. My tax abatement was for 25 years. With the abatement my monthly property tax is $3 but without it would be less than $30. If you were looking at the difference by percentage- that would be an astronomical increase, but on a dollar basis- it wouldn't sway my budget. While my monthlies wouldn't change much, that may not be the case with many other buildings.

The coops - Address are 1787, 1825, 1831 Madison Ave. Built in 2002-2004, I think.

Alanhart, thanks for tipping me off to a high coop maintenance. Currently, these coops collect $650-$1000 for 2 beds (860-1050 sqf). It doesn't seem unreasonable, given the attended lobby, garden, gym etc. I liked the community feel in these coops but I do see that it takes a long time, if ever, to appreciate...

Semerun, PS 90 looks great! No 2 beds on market though. Any other condos you recommend? I've seen some around 116th St but too plain for me...

semerun is correct. East Harlem above 99th is actually cheaper PSF all else equal than even upper central Harlem. It has the most density of projects, #1, and a relative paucity of services and gentrification above 106th, and is far from the subway if live East of 2nd. But it is convenient if you work mid-town East, especially below 106th.

I was just visiting a friend who moved to 143rd, and it was a nice place, and cheaper than when the same friend lived at 113th. It had a nice restaurant nearby and such. But is definitely NOT as gentrified at FDB below 125th, not even close.

Will it be someday? Probably, at the rate Manhattan prices are going. It was definitely nicer than when I was last up that way say 5-6 years ago.

Apple, sorry, I was thinking of 1901 Madison when I commented earlier. In any case, all of those Madison Ave apartments you mentioned fall into the 25th Precinct. I would recommend you visit the precinct and talk to some of the officers before you give further consideration to those apartments. I would also search this board for the comments on HDFC apartments if you want to give these Madison Avenue apartments further consideration.

Unfortunately, most of the other new condo's/co-op's in these sections are fairly generic boxes/rectangles. While I might not be bullish on that section of the neighborhood- at least the PS 90 apartments have some style and flair. PS 90's relative sits decaying in Hamilton Heights (on 145th btwn Broadway and Amsterdam)- stuck waiting on the church that owns it to get financing to redevelop the property. Last I heard/saw, the church actually had architectural rendings done- but it didn't have the financing in place. I suspect when all is said and done- PS 186 will become condo's- but I guess time will tell. I did like the duplex's at 68 Bradhurst- but then you are talking a different price point- probably around the $1 million mark. I also like the Bradhurst Carriage House condo conversion in Hamilton Heights on 146th st- but again, these are at a higher price point (and no available units anyway). If you like these old or interesting details- I can't recall at the moment- but I know there is one condo in central harlem with barrel vaulted ceilings that impressed me, I am sure the name of the building or address will come to me at some point.

Thanks for thoughtful analysis. I will pass on coops at this time. I do not see any interesting 2 bedrooms in Central/East Harlem or Hamilton Heights, though. Do you guys know anything about a development at 1890 Adam Clayton Powell Boulevard by any chance? The location seems pretty good on 116th Street. It is a rental condo conversion that happens over time.

Yes a good friend of mine owns there. He likes it.

Applenyc how about this place:

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/915906-condo-603-west-148th-street-hamilton-heights-new-york

"The demographics seem to be improving as well" -- LOL, some people have no shame.

Since I mentioned PS 186 previously- an update coming on Thursday:
http://harlembespoke.blogspot.com/2013/07/revive-update-on-ps-186.html

Nearly $80 million budget- I am not convinced that they will get that much financing for affordable apartments, but let's see what they say later this week. I am still a supporter of market rate condo's for this building.

This is getting a little creepy...I also mentioned the Bradhurst Carriage House last week with no active listings and now the Penthouse comes back on the market. What's up with the quick flip though- 1 month and an asking price more than 100k higher?

It's a hot market, so maybe they can do that. They probably are trying to cover their closing costs.

The only problem is it might not appraise.

So will this area or any other get torched during the Zimmerman-acquittal riots?

>the Zimmerman-acquittal riots?

This is not Florida

>This is not Florida

Yes, I'm aware. But is is also not 1992 (LA riots) and I strongly fear that the advances in social media etc will make inciting of mobs and riots a lot easier; all you need to do is look at some of the FB pages set up threatening riots in multiple cities etc.

Well, lets hope

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jason10006
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Jason hit his head again. Good thing his nurse put on the helmet tight.

Actually - just logging on after some time and it's just true. What's wonderful about this debate it that one just needs to come to see it. Years ago we had to explain nuance. Now, it's just dependent upon the motivation to come and see and decide.

Hamilton Heights is great if your idea of "restaurants" is through-the-window greasy pizza, Popeye's, and Burger King ... the closest thing to a grocery store is a bodega selling 8-year-old cat food, stale white bread, and (if you're lucky) Skippy peanut butter ... and crappy 99-cent stores filling out the rest of the storefronts.

AND if you don't mind 24/7 noise from the locals who like to use the sidewalks as their personal living rooms.

Granted, once you get out of the Broadway corridor, there are some nice blocks and good solid housing stock.

But assuming you're "of means" enough to even be reading this thread, expect to do ALL of your shopping, dining, and socializing elsewhere. This neighborhood is strictly for crashing at your pad.

NYCMatt - you're just wrong - there's no need to say more.

I guess I must be mistaken.

Where is this fabled hip and fabulous Hamilton Heights of which everyone is trying to sell?

It's certainly not in the 130s-150s in Manhattan.

Is there some special train I must take to step into this alternate universe?

>Is there some special train

Ifs a short bus. You can sit next to Jason.

NYCMAtt, actually that's more or less exactly where it is. But, this debate is tedious. People will decide for themselves. I am sorry your racial anxieties still persist so violently.

Its simple common sense that HH will gentrify before areas farther to the North (ie Washington Heights where Matt lives).

Is Inwood "gentrified"?

Jason, have you been north of 168th?

It's already there.

Gentrified.

HH is still the wild wild west of Manhattan real estate, and until we finally do away with rent stabilization, always will be.

Just call him Jason the Stuttering Retard. His geography is so distorted.
Separately, did you see his recent posts on the Gold thread?

It's simple retarded sense that HH will gentrify before areas farther to the North (i.e. Fieldston).

Sigh. Once again I have to make my pathetic overture. Anyone who thinks "gentrification" has not happened in the west 150's can meet me and my children at Tazso on 157/Broadway. There you will see "
Park Slope" strollers
and "hipsters" and whatever are marks of "value." It's real. You see it. There is no debate.

>Anyone who thinks "gentrification" has not happened in the west 150's can meet me and my children at Tazso on 157/Broadway.

Oh yeah, well what kind of milk do you like in your latte, in case I'm in line when you arrive with your children and it would save some time if I order for you? Soy?

It's 2013. There are no more hipsters. Stroller-owning Park Slope parents are all now living in the Golden Sunset Rest Home. And HH/WH is still a festering ghetto.

Facts is facts.

Leche. Café con leche.

But when you walk by someone on the street, what is the identifying trait that lets you know it is a gentrified person?

Good point. How do you know it's not just a yeoman?

What is the identifier?

When I went into contract in 2005, the neighborhood was predominantly Dominician and the 2000 census data indicated the median income around 18k/year with few high school graduates. The results of the 2010 census indicated a diversifying neighborhood and a median income of 38k/year and a noticable percent of college graduates. If the census was taken today, it would indicate a dramatic shift in race, income, and education from the 2010 census. I really started noticing the demographic shift on the street in 2011 but last summer is when the people walking around the neighborhood really started to look different. I started noticing the fashionable gay couples, the russian nannies, the young caucasian children wearing Trinity School t-shirts. Friends with Masters degrees from top schools started moving into the neighborhood. In the last year you also started seeing a shift in the retail scene- first with Chipped Cup and Harlem Public, but in recent months and in the next few months it's been a string of new restaurants along Amsterdam (Cocola, The Grange, Amsterdam Social, etc). In the past there have been attempts at nice restaurants- but they were too soon for the shift. The well run restaurants that have opened recently are doing well and will likely continue to do so.

NYCMatt, Alanhart and all others that refuse to acknowledge the shift that is occuring, it is real. When I first started posting on this board- back in 2007 (you could still post anon back then- I didn't create this screenname until months later). Back then there were a large number of posters scoffing at Central Harlem's (south of 125th) changes, let alone Hamilton Heights. While we have some of the same people scoffing on this board- you have a great deal more people buying into these neighborhoods that would not have previously even considered moving uptown.

So only "fashionable" gay couples?

And just WHITE kids in Trinity t-shirts?

How do you know those Russian women are nannies? Did you ask them?

That post is just dripping with racism.

Oy.

It's an observation- nothing more. Yes, I only noticed White kids in Trinity t-shirts, I think it would be terrific if it was kids of all races, but I have yet to see that. The gay couples I observed did happen to be fashionable in my opinon. As to the Russian women- yes, I actually did speak to them- and in fact they were nannies. In Harlem, people actually talk to strangers on the street and say hello- and occassionally strike up a conversation- so it's not out of place to chat with random people.

Huntersburg asked what was the identifier of a gentrifier. Since Hamilton Heights had long been a neighborhood for a large Dominican population- and as the census data identifies- typically poor and lacking a great deal of education. I would define a gentrifier as someone that tends to be wealthier and more likely to have a higher level of education. Race doesn't matter- though there has been a trend where the neighborhood is becoming far more racially diverse.

NYCMatt- You stated some pre-conceived ideas of what the neighbor is and isn't-without recognizing that neighborhoods change. You can say or think whatever you want- that doesn't make it true.

Are you sure you're not cherry-picking the new businesses that have opened? No pawn shops? No mega-giant bodegas? No demographic shift from Dominicans to Mexicans and Central Americans?

Because that's what I see when I drive up there looking for streetcorner Cheracol.

Are you sure you're not cherry-picking the new businesses that have opened? No pawn shops? No mega-giant bodegas? No demographic shift from Dominicans to Mexicans and Central Americans?

Because that's what I see when I drive up there looking for streetcorner Cheracol.

"Jason, have you been north of 168th?"

Yep, many times. There are pockets of WH and Inwood that are nice and gentrified, and a whole lot that are still ghetto-ish. Just like in South Harlem, East Harlem, & HH (i.e one block east and west of FDB 110th-125th, along Central Park from 110th/8th to east 96th, below east 100th or so.)

Since most people looking anywhere in upper Manhattan commute to mid- or downtown, they want to be closer to work, not farther. So all else equal, its more desirable to be at a lower street. Which is why the gentrified areas of Harlem sell and rent for significantly higher PPF on average, all else equal, versus WH.

I am not quite sure what point there is in all the usual suspects reconvening every week or two on a different thread to say all the same things again and again without really listening to each other or addressing each other's points ... or using actual facts and evidence (in some cases). But ... apparently that's just what we do here at Streeteasy.

What gets me is that many folks here seem to believe they are entitled to their own facts. Opinions, yes--facts, no. We all have to work with reality, whatever that may be, and draw whatever conclusions we can from that. And those of us who live in Hamilton Heights probably actually do know more about what it's like than those who don't.

Why is more important for people to fight with each other about biases and prejudices than to use our collective knowledge and insight to observe the big picture of what's happening in our city?

Imagine that it's now 2063 and we're all still here posting. What would we then agree and disagree about? I've been in NYC since 1978 and gosh, things have changed. In 1978, I couldn't have predicted what's true now, but by 1990 or so, I could see which way it was going.

Let's just talk about Manhattan--upper Manhattan, to be precise. I think it is quite, quite obvious that in the fairly near future, we will see a time when there is no part of this island that isn't "gentrified", though probably not to uniform degrees. The city may even at some point find a way to empty and transform its housing projects (no, I am not saying I am in favor of this!) My point is actually that once change takes place, more change is possible. And all the change we've been seeing over a long time has been moving in one direction. Manhattan island's northern expanses are getting more and more middle class, each separate neighborhood in its own way at its own pace.

>What gets me is that many folks here seem to believe they are entitled to their own facts. Opinions, yes--facts, no. We all have to work with reality, whatever that may be, and draw whatever conclusions we can from that.

What exactly is the difference between opinions and facts if you then make the statement that reality is "whatever that may be" and further acknowledge that the reality isn't sufficient definitive that you then have to go and draw a conclusion.