Jersey City Condo vs Manhattan coop

if you're planning to stay when the twins will go to school, then UES. schooling is very expensive and JC has awful schools. with 2 kids, you can easily spend 40-70K per yr on schooling.

If you prefer the upper east side, think the schools are better and the two cost the same, it seems you already made up your mind. Young children can share a bedroom, especially when young. You'll get many opinions on which is better, but the truth is opinions are just that, opinions and are subjective. Go with what you like best.

I can see the dilemma. Although Jersey City has awful schools, there are plenty of charter/private schools in Jersey City to which some people in Manhattan send there children.

Plus COOP restrictions s_ck a_s hard as Cartman would say.

I meant to say prefer UES within Manhattan. Thanks

It makes me sad that a couple with newborn twins plans to live between 5 to 7 years. The twins will barely be past their formative years.

The apartment is the least of your worries. I hope you make a good choice regarding guardian selection.

A 2BD/convertible 3BD in UES with a windowed dining area could provide an extra BD or playroom for the kids, getting a little bit more space for your money. Also consider your/your wife's daily commute & daily conveniences (shops, supermarkets, transit, etc in JS really not nearly as good as UES), & with young kids, being near family & friends that could help babysit might be important/helpful. JS's more space & great views will be hard to beat in UES, & a decent # of UES buildings have garages. Real estate choices tend to be quite personal, & depends on what you value more (space vs. convenience).

If you prefer UES, it most likely will be a better choice for you than JC, since having young kids is not an ideal time to adjust to new surroundings. Also a better school system in UES seems to be a more critical factor for your family than nice views & more (& not necessarily significantly more) space in JC.

What type of twins are they?
Did you know that the Olson twins aren't identical?

If the costs are indeed the same, just take the UES apt because you are probably not moving back into the city once your kids get bigger and need more space to run around. You can definitely squeeze in there for the near term and there are lots of resources for new parents and children on the UES.

I commute to JC for work and have been doing so for ten years. It is a shithole and I would not want to raise a family there. Besides, after the first month you will have exhausted any dining options worth going to and that view you're enjoying will represent a reverse "Escape from New York".

I think former Governor McGreevy is doing penance there. And good for him, frankly, in contrast to Spitzer.

Given your situation, I would also vote for the UES. Also, I am assuming that both of you work in the city. Your own commutes should also factor into this, as you both will be busy raising your two kids and long commutes are going to get exhausting rather quickly.

Having said that, I will admit that having more space is tempting. Just make sure your second bedroom in the UES coop is of decent size, and not just a small room being advertised as a second bedroom.

Actually both of us work around World Finacial Center so the commute to JC is closer than UES through ferry or path.

Thanks

More stupid irrelevant comments by hb.

F1, the real concern is your time frame. 5-7 years. But due to many unforeseen circumstances that could become 10. If you buy a condo and could bear a possible negative carry if you had to rent in the future you're likely ok.

coop versus condo does not matter if your not renting the unit out, what really makes the difference is the room for your children especially if your stay longer than you expect. Forget the views, you will put window coverings over them 90% of the time, and even if you don't they get old over time.

yes, nyc does have numerous dining options but I find that I only go to 2-3 restos on a regular basis....so my dining options are limited, even if self limiting despite the plethora in manhattan.....plus with kids are you really going to be eating out 3-5x per week

>More stupid irrelevant comments by hb.

Don't mind aboutready, she's upset that now everyone knows she took money from Peter Cooper Village and in exchange rents have gone up for current residents.

Why would anyone "prefer" the Upper East Side?

Despite many years of hopes and trying, Jersey city has not been able to develop a desirable image despite proximity to downtown nyc and ability to have a car on the cheap. Bill burg started much later and very quickly surpassed in real estate prices. I would think that you want to factor in why JC has lagged.

"I would think that you want to factor in why JC has lagged."

In not so many words, I assume you're referring to the criminal element and "Section 8" housing.

That is only one of the factors but JC will never be cool despite all the positives.

I always rent my cars out of JC, and I have to admit the downtown area and surrounding areas are pretty nice and VERY quick to Downtown Manhattan.

@fichamp. FWIW, I have been to Jersey City a few times within the last few weeks. I actually think the area around Grove and Newport are quite nice, reminding me of parts of Brooklyn. Very livable and decent open space. You also get a lot more space for your money compared to the UES. Can't speak about school, but if you are working around the WTC area, JC might be worth it. I think JC is better than its reputation would suggest. Part of it has to do with micro-neighborhoods within JC - most people are too simplistic when it comes to parts of the city that they don't know about, but downtown JC is comfortable and quiet. I also never felt unsafe walking around Grove/Newport, etc.

I personally would choose JC because of space and short commute. Our 7 month old crawls everywhere now and even though we are living in a 2BD we still feel cramped.

If you plan to live for 5-7 years, then public school doesnt come into the picture until the kids are 5. Until then, you will be paying for daycare/nanny which is location-independent ( may even be cheaper in jersey city ). With twins, a car would improve daily life significantly.

I second msky.

In fact, unless you work on the UES or east of Fifth, JC might end up being a much easier commute than the dreaded Upper East Side.

FWIW, I think JC will also give you an appreciable boost in after-tax income. Depends on your income, but I'd guess you're under AMT in the $250K to $500K range? I haven't run the numbers, but it may be a 5% difference after-tax.

Is your PATH station accessible? I think the waterfront is, but Grove Street isn't ... but OTOH, I don't think the stations on the 6 are, and with a double stroller that would be a big consideration, for me at least. Congrats on the babies, btw!

ali r.

Definitely will save 5% on the NYC tax, however if you are hitting AMT, you may not be able to deduct the large property taxes on NJ.

Also, JC has huge and I mean huge swaths of undeveloped land they can build new condos on, so an oversupply in the future could be possible. so many parking and empty lots further in.

Theorectically, the schools in JC waterfront should be ok since the large infux on UMC families, but unfortunately its not the case (yet)

some things about JC waterfront:

- trains to manhattan on weekends can take a while, if u just miss it.. wait can be 20 mins
- highway 78 divides JC into two. on the other side is very very sketchy and is why people cringe when they hear Jersey City. try to stay as close to the water as possible
- supermarket selection is very average. If you're into the freshest best quality grocery then u may be disappointed.
- very transient. many ppl just out when kids hit school age. lots of turn over by renters and owners
- rents were decimated during the financial crisis. My building rent when from 3,200 for 2BR to 2,100 within a year. Not sure about condos prices around that time though
- feels generally safe but I don't venture out after 10pm or too many blocks from the water.
- there is a high school which is one of the best in the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Ronald_E._McNair_Academic_High_School

well, all I can say is that I keep seeing more and more manhattanites moving to jc, including former neighbors. the places has its lluses and minuses, just like manhattan, brooklyn, tokyo or any other place

>I keep seeing more and more manhattanites moving to jc,

Those are not Manhattanites, or New Yorkers either.

"manhattan, brooklyn, tokyo"

Uhhmmmm....one of these things is not like the other.

I'd personally do an upper Manhattan place before going over the river. Or BK or LIC or Forest Hills.

>Uhhmmmm....one of these things is not like the other.

Yeah, Manhattan

I love the UES as well...great restaurants, quiet evenings, access to Central Park, and easy access to the rest of the city if you need action (especially after the 2nd avenue subway line is built). Just don't buy too close to the soon to be built Marine Transfer Station. UES is not trendy, but who want to be engulfed in "trendy" 24/7.

"In fact, unless you work on the UES or east of Fifth, JC might end up being a much easier commute than the dreaded Upper East Side."

Except for every hour except rush hour. JC is a total nightmare off hours.

"Why would anyone "prefer" the Upper East Side?

Because it isn't the Upper West Side.

detroit!

I don't have kids but be aware that the PATH train changes dramtically on weekends. Dramatically for the worse. The lines combine and the trains run much less often.

If you plan to have activities in the city on your down time, you're not going to want to be in NJ.

There are buses but they get tied up in traffic jams and traffic into the city is heavy on w/e. You could drive, but where would you park?

The moral of the story is, if your friends are in the city and your leisure activities are in the city, stay in the city. NJ towns are only easy to get to during the work week.

The Historic Downtown JC (East of i78) is beautiful and resembles Brownstone Brooklyn. The areas around
Hamiliton Park and Von Vorst Park are filled with great restuarants, bars, bakeries and local shops. The folks from Barcade, Two Boots Pizza, Rosa Mexicana and more have all opened eateries in the area.
The area is a mix of old warehouse to condoo conversions (Dixon Mills, Waldo,Well Fargo), 2-4 unit brick multi family and new large amenitiy filled buildings in Paulus Hook and the waterfront.

It takes about 10-15 minutes to go from Grove Street to World Trade center on weekdays and weekends.I also can go from Grove to Grand Central in 40-45mins door to door. In addition to trains, buses, lightrail.....you also have the Ferry.

JC is worth a look!

PATH is AWFUL. Weekends near impossible. And the option of at least grabbing a cab in a jam. SUCKS. Brooklyn has it in spades. And you can walk/bike.

JC is disgusting. A couple nice spots, 2 blocks from disgusting spots.

Thanks everyone. We decided to first rent in JC (waterfront area) before buying.

Below are few observations so far
-Nice and newer neighborhood with plenty of local restaurants, bakeries and shops.
-My commute door to door is 20-25 min via ferry vs UES 25-35 min via taxi or 50 min via 4/5/6 train wreck.
-Waterfront feels great in summer but I am sure it is horrible in winter with icy winds.
-It is very quiet and feels like a suburb without the commute. But public schools in JC are mediocre.
-We still head to city for restaurants and traffic coming back to JC can be bad even in weekends.
-We miss Central Park, restaurants and amenities like coffee shops, dry cleaner and duane reade on every block.
We do get a break from New York City taxes but if we were to buy in JC, taxes are higher in JC than UES.
So far, we miss UES and we may end up buying in UES.

After 8 months in JC, we have decided to buy on 83rd/York (hopefully garbage dump won't make the neighborhood miserable).

JC has a lot of new constructions going on and with limited roads/traffic, it will be get worse over the years.

Thank you for the update. Always interesting to hear the postscript.