Airbnb

It's a condo, right? Read your deed, which will point you to the governing documents you agreed to be bound by.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/33956-you-can-now-go-to-jail-for-defying-board

the question myself i am grappling with is whether one can be fined without having violated any particular bylaw. is listing an apartment alone enforceable?

It'd depend on the language of the NYC law and condo bylaw you intended to break. They might say the listing itself was enough, regardless of whether you got someone to give you money. Sort of like "soliciting with intent."

I'm sure you could find a lawyer to try to get the fine refunded, but it'd be a lot less expensive to just cough up the $1,000 or whatever it is, and be done with it.

The "lawyer letter" people will tell you to send the condo board would be passed to the condo's lawyer for a response. The fees for that would be tacked onto your account, and so the party would begin.

How much was the fine? How much we're you listing the apartment for?

Do you need the income from Airbnb to keep the apartment reasonably affordable for you?

Fredd: didn't give enough hush $ to the right people.

Must tip the doormen.

It probably does not matter whether you actually rented it, or merely advertised it to rent, on Airbnb. Those are not the right hairs to split.

I doubt you can fight this successfully. Penmark is Halstead and they are not dummies.

I like fieldschester's instincts, but I'm not sure that argument would carry much credence either.

Right, he didn't even get a nibble on his listing.

The management companies are probably just looking for ads. For instance, it took a few seconds to find this one -- https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/276120 -- and then establish that it's in the rowhouse co-op at 255 W 70th.

In that case, "Ted" might be the co-op sponsor, who still lives there and may still be calling the co-op shots, so tough tittie to the other shareholders who might not want two-night transients ringing the buzzers.

In a bigger building, the co-op or condo could rack up some good fine income.

Oops, 255 isn't a co-op. ACRIS filed documents for the co-op at 225 under 255's block/lot.

Ted and Diane own the whole house, so all they have to worry about is the city getting onto them.

Air B N B is pretty much illegal in NYC - you cannot by CITY law run a hotel without a licence. Don't be an idiot and fight this:

"Judge rules Airbnb illegal in New York City"

http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/21/technology/innovation/airbnb-illegal-new-york/index.html

when did harlem j get knocked dark?

air bnb is illegal for numerous good reasons, most of which involve safety and consideration of one's neighbors.

the basic take here is that you decided that you didnt have to follow sensible laws, and sought to rent an apt via bnb illegally.

now youre indignant that you were fined?

This is like a hooker telling the cop, "YOU CAN'T ARREST ME! I'm not intending to sell myself, Officer. If anyone had propositioned me, I'd have told him to move along, I'M A L-A-D-Y !"

Most every lease and every co-op or condo by law has language prohibiting you from subletting the apartment without advanced consent from management or board.

The question is whether soliciting short-term (sub)tenants is punishable under the lease/bylaws, or if a penalty should wait until a specific transaction is agreed or until the actual short-term occupancy.

Though it doesn't seem to be at issue in this case, does anyone worry that owners could be hit with building fines for listings they didn't post? (i.e. somebody lists my apartment for rent, without my knowledge) This would be a reason to investigate beyond the simple existence of a listing before assessing fines and getting into a dispute process.

To effectively curb these sublets, the condo bylaws should prohibit not only the sublet itself but solicitation as well. It's alot easier to find a listing on Airbnb then it is to prove someone is an illegal subletter and not just "Uncle Bob."

uptown_joe - I was wondering the same thing. But any decent Airbnb listing is going to have pictures and how is somebody going to have pictures of your apartment? I can think of an ex-roommate or ex-girlfriend situation, but it's pretty farfetched that someone is going to think "I'm going to screw my ex over by taking pics of his apartment before I move my stuff out, then post them on Airbnb in hopes his condo board sees them and slaps him with a fine!" LOL

> does anyone worry that owners could be hit with building fines for listings they didn't post? (i.e. somebody lists my apartment for rent, without my knowledge)

Seriously?

People post fake listings all the time. Friends of mine who are small landlords spend hours each week flagging inappropriate listings on Craigslist and similar sites during peak rental season. They've had two situations where people were scammed into signing sight-unseen leases with someone who was not the owner. I'm not sure what kind of validation airbnb does, but it's not that crazy to think about someone taking photos from a real estate listing, archived on a site like Streeteasy, and posting them on airbnb.

That said, airbnb is illegal here. I think the hotel law is anti-consumer, archaic, and monopolistic, but the bottom line is that it is the law. If you're advertising for something you full well know is illegal, I'm not sure you can get upset about a fine. All things considered, getting fined now may have saved you from even greater fines had your listing been successful.

i think the hotel law makes complete sense.

I agree with yucky.

I mean yicky

"People post fake listings all the time. Friends of mine who are small landlords spend hours each week flagging inappropriate listings on Craigslist and similar sites during peak rental season. "

Amazingly, one of my best friend's ex-girlfriend fell for such a scam and even paid the deposit to fake poster.

>Amazingly, one of my best friend's ex-girlfriend fell for such a scam and even paid the deposit to fake poster.

What a retard.

If you live in a lovely building with quiet, respectful neighbors who judiciously follow the House Rules and CCRs, would you really want someone coming in for 3-6 night, not knowing or caring about the House Rules or anyone in the building, partying, coming in late, making noise, puking in the hallways, and then not giving a damn because it's not their property and they're leaving soon? That is very often what you get with airbnb or HomeAway. It's a sad situation if someone can't afford their HOA dues and taxes, but the fact is that they should move somewhere affordable (like the Bronx or New Jersey) rather than risk having to pay a hefty fine.

why do you disparage The Bronx or New Jersey to make your point?

drdrd, dumb.

hush money isnt all thats needed...

there are 2 factors to this; A. If you had the rental up as night to night or less than a month, then thats a violation of city law, since your not a legally zoned hotel. B. Your condo has its own bylaws which could put a minimum term on your rental (ie no less than 12 months). You can try to appeal to the board, saying you didnt know, its your first time, it wont happen again etc..., and if that doest work just pull out, and pay up. Dont argue or go to the lawyers, its a waste of time and money, and if the board really wants they can call the city to investigate you just to bust your chops a little more.

I think what uptown joe is referring to is an owner could legitimately rent their apartment, and then the renter could then post it on airbnb while in vacation or whatever and then the owner could get fined.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57605258/nyc-reverses-airbnb-hosts-$2400-fine/

Do people no longer care about fleas and bedbugs? http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/35717-flea-exterminator