The View at East Coast

The building looks great, however I have several issues.

1. Suppose to be starting at over $1000 sq foot. ( in this market good luck, at $700 possible)
2. No on site parking (the garage is located across the street in their rental building)
3. NO gym in the building. (also located in the rental building across the street)
4. It's at least 7 blocks to the nearest train.
5. No grocery stores in the area ( market is coming soooooooooooon.)
6. Very little restaurants or bars.
7. Other buildings going up for the next 5 years. (it's one big costruction zone).

In all this building is going to have great views but at what cost. Not much to do in the area. Well good luck. Hope this helps.

Now wait and see others tell you how great the area and building is and how it is a great deal. And to tell you the truth I think the area has potential, just not these price's.

I'm so happy that the other commenters on this blog see the type of joke that dco is.
Let's see - waterfront property, luxury building, great amenities, midtown Manhattan views, 5 minute train ride to Grand Central, 20-30% cheaper than comparable buildings in Manhattan (assuming $900-$1000 psf, pricing hasn't come out yet but word is that prices will begin at under $1000psf), up and coming area with other luxury condos and lots of retail amenities opening every week - dco is right, this is terrible.

LICComments- Is all that I posted not true. I'll concede that no one knows for sure about the price. But is anything else I said a LIE.

So you answer the questions.

1. Where is the gym going to be located?
2. Where is the parking going to be located?
3. How many blocks is it to the Vernon Jackson station on the 7 Line.
4. Where is the nearest grocery store. (not in the future)
5. Is the entire waterfront area a construction zone? And will be for the next 5 years?

Tell me how I lied. I said the area does have potential and the building will offer great views.

I didn't say you lied, I said that your comments are a joke.

I don't know all the details of the building, but from what I hear:
1. The building will have a small gym and owners have access to a full gym in the building next to this one.
2. Parking across the street - so what? Many Manhattanites with cars don't park in the same building they live. This won't affect sales.
3. The walk to the subway hasn't stopped $3k and $4k+ rentals at the building right next to this one.
4. For anyone that moves into this building, there will be an Amish Market (same owners, may be a different name) and Duane Reade across the street.
5. New buildings will be going up north of this building, but not right next to it. Everything west is already developed, and there is one site south that will be getting a library building. There isn't any other construction directly around this building.

You conveniently didn't raise your #6 point, which is an out and out misstatement. There are many great bars and restaurants right nearby. Off the top of my head - Riverview, Masso, Cafe Henri, Lounge 47, Blend, Bella Via, Tournesol, Tuk Tuk, Lucky Mojos, Waterfront Crabhouse. Also right nearby in the area - Jackson Avenue Steakhouse, Manetta's, Manducatis, Water's Edge, on and on. There also will be a high-end Asian fusion restaurant either in the building or across the street. Bars - Beside the bars in the restaurants, there are Domaine Wine Bar, Dominies Hoek, McReilly's, Water Taxi Beach, on and on. Keep trying dco, eventually you'll say something substantively correct.

Quick correction - I meant to say everything directly east is already developed.

LICComent- At least you admitted that I'm more knowledgable about this building then you are.

1. Again the Amish market is not there yet. How about a regular supermarket?
2. Some of those rest. you mentioned are a $10 cab ride further in to Queens because you don't think people should have cars.
3. What does possible small gym mean? Maybe possibly not?
4. The fact that the rental is closer means that EC3 is further ( still 7 blocks)
5. New buildings will be going up to the north.These building will block the nothern views of 59 Bridge.

Actually you have made me think about one thing. Your better off renting in the building with all the amenities and being closer to the train.

dco - why is your rediculous comments everywhere in streeteasy? I have read many forums and everyone tells you how much nonesense you post. It's been very obvious to me that you will continue to do so, so I hope for everyone who reads ANYONE's comment that you do the research on your own and can use the comments as a starting point or guideline.
Please dco...you know what you are about and if anyone just reads any forums with your comments, I think they will realize in a short period of time that you are an absolute joke. You must really get some sick sense of pleasure posting your comments...quiet sad.

belugaw- If anything I posted above is a lie then point it out. Just because I have a difference in opinion about the market doesn't give the right to make stupid and pointless statements. The market is going to decline and there is nothing you or I can do about it. To think that comments on this site have the ability to sway the market is as ridiculous as your statements.

dco - you said there are very little restaurants or bars in the area - that was a complete misstatement.
You said there will be no gym in the building, when there may be a small gym. You really don't have a clue if there will be any type of gym or not.
You said there are no grocery stores in the area. Even if we don't count the Amish Market that will be open well before this building opens, Vernon Boulevard has at least 4 groceries/delis right where this building is located.
Your "construction zone" statement is also misinformation.

I think dco is envious of the large number of people in the NYC area who make more money than he does, so he goes into denial by believing that everything is overpriced and the market will crash down to his level.

LICComment- I'm envious of people who make more then me. I would love to make more money wouldn't you? What kind of a statement is that. The stores on Vernon are Bodegas. Do you know the difference?

LICComment I will tell you that you have a lot of heart. You have defended LIC with great honor. Let me be clear I think LIC does have potential. I guess we differ on the progress of the neighborhood and the value of the units. I just think the area is overpriced just like the rest of the city. And I truly wouldn't buy in EC3. What bothers me besides the price is all the amenities are in another building. And yes the walk to the train is far. I wouldn't want my wife walking home late from the train.

dco - let's talk straight for a second. Much of your problem has to do with the attitude that comes through your comments. If you had said: "This building is in an incredible location with great views, and is good quality, but I personally don't like that the gym is in another building and I would prefer something closer to the train, and I think prices are a little high for this area in this market right now" - I think everyone would respect that. But you come out, disparage this building and practically insult everyone who has bought an apartment recently by saying they should have waited because their investment are about to plummet, and come across very obnoxious. The fact is, there are a lot of people who find the prices to be affordable and like what this building has to offer. Some people will love it and others won't. As for the general market, for all your arguments that things will drop, there are good arguments for why prices won't drop. Try to be a little more tempered and reasonable with your views and comments.
As for money, I'm happy with my job and my life. Making more would be nice, but I'm not envious of anyone.
Interesting comment about bodegas - you should be careful where you go with that one. Actually, if you consider Mario's Deli a bodega, that's fine with me, I still think it's great.

dco - If anything I posted above is a lie then point it out:
Again the Amish market is not there yet. How about a regular supermarket? - Amish market will be there and it is confirmed. It's also going to be a very large Amish Market, more than 10,000 sq ft. When you ask how about a regular supermarket - would you consider Whole Foods not a regular supermarket? Have you even shopped at Amish Market to make that comment? I shop for groceries at the Amish Market on 9th Avenue and find everything that I need...so stop speaking out of your ass.
2. Some of those rest. you mentioned are a $10 cab ride further in to Queens because you don't think people should have cars - when was the last time you were in LIC? There are so many restaurants around the waterfront and on Vernon, within walking distance...the area is not desolate of restaurants that's for sure.
3. What does possible small gym mean? Maybe possibly not? - And possibly so! What kind of stupid comment is that??
4. The fact that the rental is closer means that EC3 is further ( still 7 blocks)- There are many Rockrose rentals there...I have been there and it is not a far walk from the subway at all.
5. New buildings will be going up to the north.These building will block the nothern views of 59 Bridge - did you forget about the entire view of the Eastside of Manhattan that is directly in front of this building? AND even if they build more to the North, only a fraction fo the bridge would be blocked. If you are claiming that the Manhattan views may be blocked, then the city would have to reclaim land and build in front, which I doubt would happen.

So, your comments are not factual!

i like the way the concept.. i havent looked recently, but it seemed like the outer wall hasnt been put up yet.. id give it another 3-6mos before you get something approaching 5sl's level of completion. havent heard about a sales office, but chances are, it'll be located in one of the ec buildings. proximity to manhattan is one of the biggest selling pts for lic developments.. there's hardly anything directly north of ec3.. and 7 blocks in queens is not 7 blocks in manhattan. the 5min ride to GC quickly becomes a 20min journey, minimum. 99% of manhattan south of 125th st is less than 7 blocks away from a subway, and definitely less than 3 blocks from any bus stop.. if you consider that, there arent really any comps in manhattan. i dont agree with dco about a lot, but i think ec3 will have major trouble selling in this economy.

LICComment-I guess your right. I'm sorry for making people feel like they made a mistake buying in the last year. That's was not my intention. If people love the place they have in a great and safe area and have no plans on leaving in the next several years then my analysis shouldn't matter. If it does I'm sorry for making anybody feel buyers remorse.

I do like LIC but I think it is over priced in this market. Perhaps if things were still selling over night $800-1000 would be a fair price. Things have changed and perhaps those who were priced out of the insanity of the last several years could get in the game in the next year or two. Or perhaps it's a good time to get a larger unit. That's all.

For the record I grew up in a neighborhood next to LIC and am very familiar with the area and the amenities then and now. That's why I say it has potential but the price's diminish your return for the future. I also own a home so I have no vested interest in talking down the market. I just don't like what I see on the horizon.

belugaw- We can argue about a lot of things including the amenities of the area. But the one thing that is fact if the distance to the train from EC3. If it doesn't matter then it's not relevant, but if you want to be close to the train there are better options.

Thanks for the comments everyone. I do agree with dco on some of the points (the gym, parking, and the distance from the subway-- which I might add, feels the equivlaent of walking from 1st Ave to Lexington). Still, given the views of Manhattan and the fact that it is waterfront property, shouldn't it be something that would be hard pressed to lose its value?

Also, I saw a comment left by someone on Curbed that said the land was actually a land-lease and that the developers didn't purhcase it outright. That certainly seemed strange...

I am one of the people that believes LIC is a great place.
I agree that $1,000psf in this market may not be easy.

If you are looking to buy (and this is not a comment about whether or not now is a good time to buy) then I would recomend LIC for its value. with that said, this is certainly not a market for investment buyers.

My view on LIC is:

want a view: "The Vie"w will undoubtedly have the best gyaranteed views in LIC or maybe even the city for that matter (aside rfom citylights but that building has issues of its own)

Want proximity to Manhattan and local stores: look at to the area developeing where vernon intersect with jackson.

it is all depends on what you are looking for. If the most important thing to someone is a great view in the city then The View has a lot to offer.

lobo and NYbyler- very well said.

i could be wrong, but i think the mechanics around leased land is the reason why the maintenance is so high at citylights and BPC (ie., ~$2/sqft). if thats the case at EC3, the discount to manhattan evaporates.

i believe that citylights has such high maintenance becasue of the building's financing; less to do with the land lease. The land lease terms for the waterfront developers was very much pro-development.

I think that the deal with The View is that the land was basically given away in exchange for development. I don't know what the current payments are but the building supposedly will have the option to buy the land for $1 or somethign crazy like that in 10 years.

I found the info - the deal with the land lease and common charges (as they pertain to the lease) are as follows:

At the end of 19 years, the building, on a land lease, has the option to buy the land for $1.
Common charges come in at an average of 79 cents per square foot monthly.

EC3 has opeed the sales office 'for friends and family' 2 weeks ago... from what i hear, there's a lot of interst... avg price around 1100/sf...

my 2 cents of some points.... (btw i live in EC1 so don't tell me I don't know the area...):
- about the no supermarket and Amish & DuaneReade opening soon : EC3 won't close until early 09... Amish and DuaneReade and plenty more will be way done by then... end of discussion.... it's totally idiotic to look at what's here right this second when owners will move in 9 months...
- about being far from the subway : I walk exactly 6 minutes to get to the subway... if you think that's too much, move to park avenue and get yourself a chauffeur... come on people... since when do newyorkers not walk???
- about the "I wouldn't want my wife walking home late from the train" : do you even live here? the 7station to EC walk is SUPER safe... I wouldn't say the same about the walk from the E station at Ely st... butfrom the 7, I let my wife walk home without worry...
- about the gym : the facilities in EC2 are great, and having the gym offsite lowers the common charges... I think it's actually a great point because you spread the operating costs on EC3's 180 units EC2 400orSo units paying members from EC1... and in all honestly, it's never crowded...
- about parking : all the new condos around have either valet parking like EC2 or very limited (read horribly expensive) onsite spots... for example 1 hunters point won't even sell a spot if you don't buy a 2 br unit... and then you need to pay an extra 75k for the spot... and if you wanna drive to work every day, move further out where you can get more space for your money...

that's it for my 2 (100) cents... :-)

oh... and maintenance is indeed 79cts/sf, tax plan is a bit over 1ct/sf/month (yes) so 15$/month for a 1200sf 2br... that stays for 14 yrs then goes up to market rate over 5 yrs....

marcec1- Welcome to the discussion. Do you plan on buying at this building? I respect your comments and I'm very familiar with the area as well. I understand that it takes you 6 minutes to walk, that's great but how many blocks is it to the train? I'm glad the 2 stores are coming to the area it will be a big plus. You can rationalize the gym and parking issue all you want and perhaps you actually believe it, but for these price's I don't want to have to leave the building in the middle of the winter to go to either the gym or the parking garage.

Now the positives. I think the views are great, that's not even debatable. The building looks great and the neighborhood does have potential. I wish everybody who buys there the best and I'm sure they will love the building.

If I had to buy in LIC I would probably go with the Powerhouse. The price's are starting to fall and the location to the train is good. If the view is not as important then the Powerhouse has the most to offer.

I would advise anyone before buying at EC3 to do a rent vs buy comparison with EC1 or EC2. You might find out that it is much cheaper to rent in the building that actually has all the amenities then buy at these price's. Just a realistic option.

dco -
> Do you plan on buying at this building?
not sure yet...

>I understand that it takes you 6 minutes to walk, that's great but how many blocks is it to the train?
it does not matter weather it's 4 or 10 blocks, it still takes me 6 minutes... but if you really want to count, 47 ave & center blvd to 50th & veron is 3 blocks south and 2 blocks east...

>You can rationalize the gym and parking issue all you want and perhaps you actually believe it, but for these price's I don't want to have to leave the building in the middle of the winter to go to either the gym or the parking garage.
I don't own a car and I don't go to the gym that much... so to me it makes perfect sense...

>If I had to buy in LIC I would probably go with the Powerhouse. The price's are starting to fall and the location to the train is good. If the view is not as important then the Powerhouse has the most to offer.
The problem with powerhouse is that they ask 1,150,000 for a good 2br (#1003), with a view that's going to vanish as soon as hunters point south's first building will go up (about 1 year from now)... for the same price you get #408 in EC3, same sqft but un-obstructible view... and for the record, I love the powerhouse...I just can't reconcile with spending over a mil for an apartment that's going to end up with no view left in a few years...

>I would advise anyone before buying at EC3 to do a rent vs buy comparison with EC1 or EC2. You might find out that it is much cheaper to rent in the building that actually has all the amenities then buy at these price's. Just a realistic option.
I think personally that it's smarter to put a bit more money every month towards building equity, rather that throw rent money out the window...

marcec1- Very good post. And I thank you for answering the question. I agree 100% that I wouldn't by a 1M unit with views that were going to disappear. However I was referring to any other unit minus the view price tag.

With everything said EC3 is going to be a great test for the area and the state of the market. I'll venture to guess that it will sell 30-40 units rather quickly and things will slow. Most of the 1 beds will go much faster than the 2 Beds.

Is there anyone out that bought in this building?

They have not reduced their prices nearly enough yet. I think sales are slow, but they refuse to lower their prices because Rockrose still has cash reserves. Well see how long that lasts. They will fall eventually give it time. A lot of the layouts are not so great especially considering the ridiculous asking prices.

has anyone gone to the sales office for price quotes yet? I was there Mar 08 for the initial high price (lowest 695k for 1bdr) but looking at the website, the starting price seems to be a lot lower now (i saw some units at 560k for 1bdr). Are these really the current asking price?

Where has dco been? I miss that guy.

LICComment, don't kid yourself with all the new construction. The easy money on Wall Street is over, which means other sectors will be hurt as well. We are in a recession and there is already too much inventory in LIC. Loans are harder to come by and many people just lost their shirt in the stock market. Keep dreaming, son.

Thanks for responding to a comment from 6 months ago. If you knew what was going on in LIC, you would know that prices are holding up well, relatively. More and more people are looking at the area as more retail has been coming in. Once mortgage rates drop into the 4.5-5% range, we'll see lots more people considering buying and refinancing, which will help stabilize housing prices.

Lower interest rates will just mean more demand for Manhattan. The new condos should stablize at $400 psf.

Nice fantasy newaccount.

Been wandering over to the Queensbridge Houses for some crack there LICC?

This is one of the more interesting incentives that I have seen. It actually makes sense to me:
http://afinecompany.blogspot.com/2008/12/rockrose-unveils-incentive-to-top-all.html

Sorry guys. I had to pull the story about Rockrose's incentive. The story is completely accurate and I will repost it tomorrow. Apparently I had scooped a publication much bigger than A. Fine Blog.

cool. please re-post the link here too.

here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/realestate/07deal1.html?_r=1&ref=realestate

NY Times vs. A Fine Blog. Gotta let the Times win a couple, times are tough :)
http://afinecompany.blogspot.com/2008/12/rockrose-offers-innovative-price.html

I was sent this link about The View - apparently they will start renting some units there? Anyone have insight on this? http://www.outerb.com/?p=893

> I agree that $1,000psf in this market may not be easy.

It wouldn't be easy in Manhattan. Across the river, I have a feeling its going to be tough to sell anything over $500-600 psf in a few months.

As streeteasy and curbed have documented, MANY LIC condos are now for rent, so I do think rockrose was a little late to the party. By 2015, maybe this will be the new hell's kitchen. SO maybe they are really early?

Jason10006, what condos other than The View are going rental? I have looked in the blogs you mention but not found any in particular.

With Manhattan prices hitting the $600s psf now, I wonder how low LIC has gotten.... (if there are in fact any sales).

Manhattan at 600s...
let's be realistic ... 600psf in Manhattan is faaaaaaar from common - unless you single out specific areas. FiDi, far upper east/west, hells kitchen etc...all comp areas to LIC.

Turtle bay/murray hill/far east-upper east are all stll well above 600psf on average.

Does anyone know what is going on with this building? Why don't they publish their listings on the market? Is there a tax abatement on this property? I'm guessing all of this hidden agenda means you need to go there and try to be "sold" on it as opposed to looking at it from an investment point of view.

building is very nice, just overpriced.

they have been renting a lot of units, but very few sold.

go with the powerhouse, priced right and more character

I agree with richseda. If you really want to be on the waterfront, go with powerhouse. If not, there are other equally nice units in other properties in LIC.

Long term tax abatement and a decent maintenance price is most attractive to me as a buyer right now. Price per square foot simply needs to be reasonable to the surroundings. I'm also older and appreciate the amenities of the full service condos.

If you have some time to wait the new building by Time Square (at the corner of Vernon && Jackson) looks like it could be interesting. It will also probably open at a time when inventory is at its highest ... good for prices.

"2009_4_viewlic.jpgBrokertales runs through all the amenities being offered to buyers at Long Island's City The View, then dishes some dirt on the much-hyped waterfront condo building: "With less then 15% in contract, Rockrose is starting to give away the store. Yes, they MUST sell a few more or they will be in deep trouble with the State’s attorney general and with their financing. Hence, all the perks listed above and prices now in the $800 per s/f range. Yes, that’s right! They went out of the gate at $1,000-plus per sq ft about a year ago. Now, with the sales so slow, they are working it hard! And a reliable source told us his offer of $699 per s/f was accepted."

http://www.brokertales.com/2009/the-view-at-east-coast-rockrose-jewel-condo-at-4630-center-blvd/

and

http://curbed.com/archives/2009/04/09/the_view_askew.php#reader_comments

is this building ready to be moved into? NO sales are listed ..

the building is rental only for now, supposedly they finally got the 15 offers needed to become condo. but as well was said that the name of the company or even building will be changed. go figure.
they having a lot of issues, i have been there, the price is ridiculous.
the lay out of the apartments are like any rental apartment, which is a big negative rockrose trying to sale they should build for it.
positive would be the view and quality.

price too high, too many rentals, gym and parking outside for that price should be inside imaging rain or snow time... when you pay over 1000 per sf and high maintenance they have on top of that.

like the powerhouse, greed did not work well for them, what a surprise

"like the powerhouse, greed did not work well for them, what a surprise"

Powerhouse is at 600 dollar psf.
The View is at 1,000 psf.

Don't understand where this Greed thing is coming from.

Apartments are in contract and were supposed to start closing. Where are the listings in Street Easy?

I've been wondering about that too, how does streeteasy normally get listings, and does this mean Rockrose (or whatever they are called now) is blocking them? is ACRIS going to be the only source of information here? input from expert streeteasiers would be most welcome.

Anyone have any new info regarding current price per square foot?

Out of all the new Hunter's Point condos, there seems to be the least amount of information about The View.

Anyone? Is this place still overpriced?

Here is one thing big to watch for, and it has happened elsewhere in LIC:

The project is still midstream when the bottom falls out of the market,
The developer knows that sales are going to hit the wall and units will be unloaded, at best, at lower-than-anticipated profit margins,
So the building is finished in the cheapest way possible with a nice cosmetic veneer covering the bare minimum that the building code requires - the standards of the cheapest rentals rather than of high-end condos.

I'm not saying that this is occuring with this particular buiding because I simply don't know> But it has happened before when the same elements were in place.

But wasn't this building completed before the bottom complete fell out?

Yes, the building has been completed and its finishes are very, very nice. ivar is babbling on again about things that he has no clue about.

Any new information about the pricing?

Really, it was completely done during those wonderful days when everyone was praying that major slump was isolated to the real estate sector early 2008. The building was completely done?

Nice "finishes" you say?

Was there this weekend - the ask is 1000+/SqFt, they are wickedly undersold and buyers face financing challenges. They are looking for 30% down.

Love the building but $1,000 psf is a bit too much in this environment.
I agree with LICComment, the finishes are very very nice.

I just noticed that there are "sales records" on the streeteasy page for EastCoast I, the rental building where the sales office for The View is. I don't have the insider account, but using one of the closing values shown and checking out the sqft for the units from their website, I got $780 psf for a 2brd, which is not so bad.

what is meaning for land lease? is it true at end of 19 years you have option to buy land for 1$?

401 is now listed at $660 psf. Nice calls licc. How many units have closed?

Does anyone knows how long is the tax abatement for this building?

Also, does this building has a pool?

No pool in this building. Although you have use of the Rockrose one across the street. But as soon as TF Cornerstone builds their other buildings, you lose the use of the Rockrose pool and it's gym, rooftop deck, etc. I don't know if the other TF Cornerstone building will have a pool. I think it's supposed to have tennis courts though.

Does anyone know how this building is doing? There is less risk with the developer defaulting than at L-Haus right?

What % sold is it now?
How much are units selling for?

Tagged along with a friend to see some units, which were are not at all bad. But I must confess that I don't quite get the pricing concept. The building has less in the way of amenities than most any building in LIC, including rentals! Gym the size of a broom closet w/ no showers, etc; no parking; no common space.

Oh, but you can use the REAL gym if you trudge to the rental building accross the way and avail yourself of the third-party parking garages in the neighborhood....

Puzzling.

Agreed. The teeny tiny gym is really a turn off. When it is snowing - like the three snowstorms we've had this season or raining - like the insane storm we had this past weekend, I don't want to trudge across the street to use the rental gym. They should make a decent sized gym with some of the unsold apts and turn the current broom closet gym into bike storage. Also, I think they don't have bike or regular storage right now either - the last time I asked about storage, they mentioned that there were lots of storage companies in LIC...errr. The lack of these amenities just make this luxury building not seem so luxurious. I'm sure they've gotten lots of feedback about the lack of amenities hurting sales, they should just turn some of the less desirable units into a decent sized gym and tv/billiards lounge room.

Maybe this attitude is a result of Rockrose/TFCornerstone being LIC pioneers. In the beginning, they really did need to provide everything because the neighborhood didn't have it. Now that LIC is a little more developed, they aren't bothering. But building amenities have little to do with neighborhood amenities, and frankly LIC is still a very hard sell. If rentals and condos alike in LIC are furnishing serious gyms, good common space, contiguous indoor parking, there is no way Rockrose/TFCornerstone is going to get away with stripped down cheap approach in thier highest price property.

prices they are asking are so absurd, even if the building had a large gym, garage, pool, common room, etc.

Does anyone knows that use of gym and garage are permanently available to the condo owners?

My friend was told that the gym access is not permanent ... that it's just some sort of temporary accomidation worked out in connection with the Rockrose split. The building with the gym isn't even under the same ownership as the View, so the View isn't in a position to guarantee access beyond the term of whatever accomidation is in place for the time being.

As greenlc points out, however, access to another building's gym isn't even the real issue. The developer can pay for membership in the fanciest gym in the city, and to most it would be worth a fraction of the value of being able to roll out bed, hit the elevator button and work out. And it also seems that the top-dollar-paying View owners, even if they might be inclined to schlepp to a the gym in a cheaper building that isn't theirs, are just going to made to feel like second-class interlopers who don't really belong.... How do they justify that to themselves?

I assume the same basic issue, if not worse, exists with parking because the sales agent really started to duck and weave rather elaborately about this too... . However, after a couple of very direct questions to cut through the evasions, it became clear that the real story was just more of the same inexplicably worthless "you're-on-your-own/no-promises-from-us" policy that you get for your $$$.

In the View's defense, prices here are now in range with the other long island city offerings like solarium, powerhouse, foundry, 5Sl, 10-50 jackson - where you can purchase a condo for under $700/sqft. This building is the ONLY one to guarantee an unobstructed view of manhattan. As LIC develops, every other condo is at risk of losing whatever view they may have currently. Think about it, why do manhattanites buy in LIC? - two reasons - proximity to manhattan and views! Secondly, the View is right on the park - amazing greenery and close to the supermarket/duane reade. Thirdly, no other building has the finishings that the View has - with Viking ranges, bathrooms with white marble, nice hallways, just overall best construction. Fourthly, yes I admit you have to schlepp yourself over to the building next door, but with that said you are going to gain access to an incredible array of amenities no other building has such as swimming pool, roof deck with grill, huge gym. This is guaranteed for 5 years until TF cornestone builds the tower next door - which I've heard owners of the View can use which will include all the above + tennis courts.

After comparing every other building, the View is clearly head and shoulders above all other buildings yet not heads and shoulders above the others in pricing - it has the protected views of manhattan close up, proximity to the park, finishings that no other building can compete with. At 700/sqft, it is only 10-20% more expensive than other buildings - well worth it in my opinion.

Those other buildings are selling at the mid 500's/sq ft at best...

LICman: I'm certainly not entirely dismissive of the points you are trying to make but it is hardly the case that one "gains access" (temporarily) "to an incredible array of amenities no other building has" since ALL those amenities are in fact in other buildings to which the residents of those building obviously have access (and those buidings are even closer to the supermarket and drug store). The whole point of this latest discussion is to note the fundemental difference between theoretical "access" and having amenities as part of the building you own and live in.

Roof deck with a grill in another building? Are you kidding? How many View owners are going to pack up food and equipment, trudge over to another building, grill a steak, pack it all up again, and bring it back to their apartment to eat? (And if you think you are going eat it there, you best not forget the salt or anything else.) Seriously, propositions like this are just complete nonstarters ... meaningless sales talk that in reality impacts no resident's life... another ethereal "access" benefit that means zilch because it is not an intergal building amenity and only serves to highlight the problem.

Also, the rental building next door to the south will always have an unobstructed views, as will the huge towers further south opposite the old gantry cranes and piers (not to mention the affordable housing project buildings to come even further south). In fact, there are a lot of View units without direct views of the skyline and most are rather cicumscribed either by the north wing of the building itself or by the tall building next door that blocks any perspective to the southeast because it is built much closer to the water than the View, which is more set back. But for comparable new condos currently available, point taken.

The viking stoves and the like are very common indeed in other LIC buildings, but, although I'm no expert about "overall ... construction," I'm certainly very strongly inclined to agree from my brief impression that the feel of the build quality is not nearly in the same low class as some of LIC's notorious examples. But is the View really better in this aspect than the Toll Bros Fifth Street Lofts, for example? I doubt it from what little I can tell and based on reputation of the builders. But let's say you are right. That still just begs the question of why a developer would shoot for a markedly higher-end project than the area comps yet strip it bare of amenities that all those comps have. Why position yourself like that?

Heck, it aint my business. I'm just sayin.

The View is what was going to be a part of a 7 building consortium known as the East Coast Properties. All members of the 7 buildings would have access to an independently operated "East Coast Club" - which would consist of amenities in various towers - the tower across the street from the View as well as the building being constructed next to the View will have amenities - not sure about towers #5-7 but I assume some of them will also have amenities as well. This means that you could have access to this "country club" if you will, across multiple buildings of movie theater screening/swimming pool/tennis courts/party rooms/billiards/roof deck/squash courts/yoga rooms/kids playrooms/sauna/etc all run professionally and maintained since it is independently operated. And although a little speculative, I don't necessarily believe the split in Rockrose will necessary change this arrangement. So in fact, The View and the renters from the other building will have access to amenities that no other LIC condo is offering, namely tennis courts, swimming pools, movie screening rooms, maybe squash quarts, golf simulation, Yoga room etc. they are planning to make the amenities grander with each successive building! - and YES, I would walk next door or across the street to use these amenities - think of all those wealthy people that drive 20 minutes to country clubs they belong to. I believe in the end, buying in the View will mean you have access to really a country club of sorts. think of what the other buildings offer - pretty crappy gym at best... but I believe this is the intention of the devolopers and how they are using economies of scale and proximity of each of the 7 buildings to their benefit and the tenants.

The supply of luxury apt. which you can BUY with protected direct views of the city and on the park - excluding the affordable housing unit which should not even be mentioned since it is a different market - I can only think of one. I will tell you for a fact I have a true westward facing 1 bedroom and got them to drop to $650-700/sqft in the end so these condos do exist.

Only 5SL and powerhouse have comparable finishings as the view - but I still think the View edges these out when you look at the marble, floors, crown moldings, walk down the hallway of the View etc. And these two condos have zilcho view. In fact the northward manhattan views of 5SL are going to be blocked by the remaining East Coast towers.

Again the developers believed that with 7 towers under one development - they can create something quite special with their economies of scale and offer a multitude of amenities. And although having the amenities in YOUR building would be sweeter - having access to the East Coast Club is a net positive even if it means walking 1 minute - in my opinion.

The distance of the walk to the gym and its relative value is debatable. However, if the gym usage is not guarantee after 5 years then The View is just an average building to me. Can anyone confirm the gym situation?

blin25: My guess is that the gym situation just reflects the fact that in less than 5 years there will be other buildings next to the View, owned by TFCornerstone, and they will probably send the View residents to those, rather than the one that's owned by Rockrose. Or it could simply by the length of the contract of the current company that runs the amenities, and in 5 years they have to renegotiate. I was disappointed that the Rockrose split separated what was supposed to be a full set of nearby buildings, but on the other hand, TFCornerstone will keep the bulk of them (all but one, in fact), so long term it should be ok.

Now, personally, I still think the View is the best condo you can buy in LIC, but I don't see the advantage of buying there event at $650/sqft vs. renting next door (where all the amenities are in 4705, or where all the views are in 4720), when renting is so much cheaper as it is right now. You get fancier kitchens and bathrooms, but at least for the 2 bdrs the layouts aren't even more spacious than the rental ones (comparing with 4705) -- with the exception of the PHs.

I always thought it curious that the View did not have a gym or private parking. If you are going to try get get the most in prices, one would think you should offer the most in product. Yes, the view is great and protected. I have looked in the window and the kitchens and floors look good. Still, EVERY other building in the neighborhood has parking and a gym of some kind. Now, that doesn't mean that the Echelon is a better building ( fairly low quality inside ) , but it would have been a much easier sell for the View if they had just added what is perhaps the cheapest amenity - a gym. If you're going to bill it as luxury, them go all the way. Strange.

LICman: That is quite a vision you have. Certainly the folks at TFCornerstone are not willing to commit to that or to the fact that Rockrose split doesn't impact future plans. While most would agree that wearing far rosier glasses than even the developer's sales staff is rather imprudent, let's assume that you are correct. You nevertheless concede as you must that it is better ("sweeter") to have amenities in your own building, so the question remains: Why is The View's contribution to this veritable cornucopia of amenities absolutely zilch? Why do the other cheaper buildings (most of which, BTW, don't exist beyond a drawing board) get all the sweets while The View residents merely get "access" to those buildings?

So long as this remains inexplicable, we will just have to retain a heroic vision of View residents out in the street iwearing parkas over their gym shorts braving the icy LIC wind and holding aloft a raw steak at the end of a barbeque fork.

Since their market positioning makes zero sense to me, the better argument for the View might be the apparent relative financial stability of even the Rockrose splinter groups compared to so many of LIC's amateur hour developers. I'm not sure this point should be compelling on its own, but I think it is more of a relevant consideration than most buyers think, particularly buyers in a truly sucky market, in a building that is not nearly sold, and in a traditionally marginal neighborhood that will predictably lag considerably behind any housing recovery. From what I gather, many LIC buyers pay no attention to this at all and willingly volunteer for the headaches that inevitably will come. I suspect and hope that Rockrose at least has the wherewithal to get through the current situation.

Nivlac - I completely agree that many buyers do not consider the financial stability of the building. I know that influenced my purchase here. Time will tell how the building in LIC hold up. IMO there is a wide range of quality and financial stability in LIC and it may be a few years before it is clear which buildings were good ideas and which were bad.

I noticed the CC went down from the previous year...which pretty uncommon despite the recession. Is that because developer is trying to keep the cc unrealistic low in hopes to sell some additional apts?

How does the gym expense factor in the cc at the view?

forgot about this discussion about amenities in the building, all you have to do is walk around gantry park and see how nice it is in this weather either during the day or at night and realize that the BIGGEST amenity of the building is this park that is essentially your backyard! THis will convince you that this is the best building in LIC by a mile.

We are not in cali. What do you do in the winter months?

During nights in the winter you gaze at the gently fallen snow that magically blankets the park, much like it does in Central Park, and look further at the christmas lights of the Empire State and Chrysler buildings through the floor to ceiling unobstructed views of midtown manhattan while eating toasted marshmallows you made over your Viking range...and if you run out you walk across the street and in one minute you are in the whole foods-like-supermarket or Duane Reade restocking. . .

I actually like the View because the developers are financially stable and are fairly reputable and the finishes are pretty nice - I would say overall, it is probably one of the best condo building in Hunter's Point. I love the appliances, closets, marble bathrooms - a little lacking on color, but that's ok for me. But I am not willing to make the plunge at 650psf when I don't have any amenities in the building - and I am fairly sure many others feel the same way. I live in 4705 and love the fact that I have access to a great gym and pool without leaving the building. And I love the fact that when its raining, I can get into my car without taking out an umbrella or not have to rush if I'm unloading groceries. These are "luxuries" that I could live without, but at 650psf and the real estate market not expected to zoom off in the next year or two, I'd rather rent here for a while and continue to see what other developments come up.

LICman...ummm...I understand that you won't bash the buiding because you bought a place there, but you lose credibility when you don't admit to certain basic facts.
1. the gym in the building is super tiny. the treadmills are so close together, you'd probably be rubbing arms with the person running next to you. this is an insufficient gym for people who actually work out and walking across the street and being exposed to the elements to use the rental gym is not as preferable as having a decent gym in your own building.
2. there is no parking in the building and you would have to walk across the street to use the 4705 parking lot and you cannot buy a parking space
3. there is no storage room and there is no common roofdeck or garden
4. technically you are not allowed to grill even if you have a decent sized terrace
5. there is no lounge

I was told by a broker that the common costs went down 25% because they had overestimated them in the beginning. They went from being unusually high to being in the high end of the reasonable range. But when you consider the fact that you don't have any amenities in the building, maybe it's not that reasonable after all. They also charge a lot more common costs for the terrace units, which I think is strange and unreasonable since you're not really doing anything to maintain people's terraces, unless they built them poorly.

You realize points 1-5 are all really the same point right? You absolutely have access to a really awesome gym, relatively cheap parking (200/month), storage room/roofdeck, lounge all directly across the street. You just have to walk 30 sec to get there.

I am the first one to admit that, yes, in an ideal world all of these amenities would be in the same building as the View and that ownership of the unit would enable access to these common areas. But I think the main issue I have with this discussion is that we are "missing the forest for the trees."

1. LOCATION: No other condo for sale is at the foot of Gantry Park. This is like being on 5th avenue in manhattan - yes its further from the subway and bars/restaurants on 2nd and 3rd avenues but its ON THE PARK. (and btw, isn't this in itself a MAJOR amenity?)

2. VIEW: Its reasonable to wait another 1-2 years because I think prices will remain flat, but there will be NO other building that is so up close to manhattan that have westward facing views. Every other new building construction will be at risk of being blocked or ONLY have views of the North/South/East. If you poll 100 I-bankers, corporate lawyers why they would ever consider LIC - they would site 1) proximity 2)views of manhattan over and over again - and ultimately you want these guys to be your buyers when you resell in 10 years. I doubt they would consider a 30 sec. walk to amazing facilities a deal breaker by any means...a drawback maybe.

As long as the next building continues to add more amenities that other condos cannot offer due to their size (like rumors of tennis courts in East Coast building 4) this will mitigate the downside of the 30 sec walk considerably.

And don't forget the best amenity of all is the park - this is worth repeating.

greenlc - I understand your points and logic but it only makes sense if there were actually decent comparables to the View where teasing away at points 1-5 and its pricing makes sense. Currently I see the market segmented in three ways yet prices between these segments are relatively close together:

LEAGUE OF ITS OWN: The View

2ND TIER: 5SL, solarium, powerhouse, foundry, 10-50

3RD TIER: L Haus, Hunter's view/Point, 10-63, City Lights

EastCoast is still a work in process in my opinion. Three buildings are completed and four are still on their way.

If there will be a lot amenities in Eastcoast when it is all completed, I think I would not mind to walk for a short distance. I believe that's also a good way to drive the common costs down. As a side note, I actually think the common costs is not all that bad.

Also, I don't think I would want to live in those rental buildings when Eastcoast is all completed simply because there will be many people from other buildings gaining access to the building.

However, I do think the biggest weakness of The View is its lack of amenities. Wouldn't it be nice if there is a real gym and storage room? Unfortunately, I think they would just jack up the common costs and set the price even higher if there were more amenities.

by the way, I saw some price increases recently, does anyone know if they are selling well or not?

I checked out the 1 bedroom rentals in 4720 (next to the View) and was not impressed:

1) finishings not nearly as good as The View, not even "luxury" by any standards. no sub-zero fridge, no viking or bosh ranges, wooden cupboards, basic floors, basic no frills bathroom, no washer and dryer in unit

2) no views to the west- all of these were reserved for the 2 and 3 bedrooms only

3) all were smallish in size, under 750 sqft

Just one point here. TF Cornerstone is planning on building 1 more condo directly on the waterfront. No specific plans yet, but it's supposed to be pretty big, so there will be other waterfront condo buying opportunities in LIC. I'm guessing it's years and years away though. Last I heard from the View sales people, they had planned on building a building every 18 months once the remediation was completed.

LICman - have been in all the buildings you have ranked? I've been in some, but not all. If so, I'd be interested why you ranked them as such. Thanks.

Good point. 10-50 and Foundry are 2nd tier but Hunters view/Point and Citylights are 3rd?

I've seen just about every condo in LIC and I have to disagree. Hunters View/Point has more things going for it than say Powerhouse, Solarium or even Foundry.