I live on the top floor of a NYC Soho loft. The co-op has had a common roof garden for decades, but now wants to sell the roof rights to a neighbor or an individual shareholder on a lower floor as an investment. Our Proprietary Lease states "All areas of the Building, other than the Units themselves, are common areas, including hallways, elevators, stairwells and roof..The corporation will not... [more]
I live on the top floor of a NYC Soho loft. The co-op has had a common roof garden for decades, but now wants to sell the roof rights to a neighbor or an individual shareholder on a lower floor as an investment. Our Proprietary Lease states "All areas of the Building, other than the Units themselves, are common areas, including hallways, elevators, stairwells and roof..The corporation will not retain space in the Building for commercial purposes nor does it intend to lease any space in the Building." The Offering Plan states "If the Premises includes a terrace...Lessee shall have and enjoy the use of the terrace...on a non-exclusive basis, subject to the applicable provisions of this Lease and to the use of the terrace...to the extent required by Lessor. Lessee's use therefore shall be subject to such regulations as may be prescribed by the Directors."
Do I have any rights? As the top floor tenant I would have liked to have bought a small part of the roof, as my neighbor next door would have also, and the coop would still have had room for a terrace and mechanicals. I also have skylights, all approved by the co-op - would I lose those? Could they be blocked by being built around so closely as to render them not legal air & light, as they are now? I would like to put in one more modest-sized skylight (only to have legal air and light) but the co-op has stated that I would have to "rent" that roof space. Can the co-op, indeed, rent me my access to legal air and light?
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Response by Flutistic
about 12 years ago
Posts: 516
Member since: Apr 2007
You need to speak with an attorney specializing in real estate ASAP. An initial brief consult should be free or cheap. The long-term value of your investment is on the line here.
It's hard for me to imagine that you don't have any rights, but I don't know specifically.
Just because the co-op seems well managed and businesslike does not mean what they want to do is lawful.
Our UES co-op building, in consultation with its managing agent, a major firm, stupidly installed a fitness room without securing a certificate of occupancy for such a use. It's been 2 years, 3 expediters so far, and I personally don't think they will ever get the CO they require, for a variety of reasons. That's just a handy example.
I'd like to recommend Serpico, Serpico & Siddiqui in Brooklyn; we are clients of theirs. Definitely find a real estate specialist attorney, ideally with litigation experience too.
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Response by truthskr10
about 12 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
How many units in your building?
Im surprised you or none of your top floor neighbors are on the board.
I would think one would want to be on the board just to be on the ground floor for roof matters.
Whatever your proprietary lease states obviously can be changed with a board vote.
My building would never make that big a decision without including the whole building's input.
But we are a small co-op.
I would engage an attorney immediately as this can profoundly affect home both in livability and value.
At the very least, you and your top floor neighbors should insist on attending the next board meeting to discuss the matter.
Aside from other avenues of legal arguments to block this sale, your board has a fiduciary obligation to everyone in the building.
This includes giving you and your neighbors the opportunity to outbid for the roof space if it is going to be for sale.
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Response by lucynegri
about 12 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Jan 2010
Dear Flutistic & truthskr10
Thank you very much for your responses. I know I'm really in deep trouble and appreciate any help I might be given.
My husband, recently dsceased, was an architect who became a painter, & organized this building in 1971. Everyone paid the same amount of money - $10,000 total per floor - and my husband chose the top floor and did all of the architectural work to bring the building in to compliance. There is only one original owner from that period, and he is an absentee owner. My husband's view of he roof was that it would be shared as a garden by all tenants, which it was.
I am also the only artist in the building, for which the district Soho was founded. Everyone else in the building is in finance, and there is even a lawyer.
My building is a small building - a store (2 shares) and 4 residental units (one per floor, one share each) of which I am the top floor. Everyone in the co-op is on the board - all of us are V.P.s.
This is not a well-run building at all; I have perhaps 100 emails to prove that (I have had roof leaks and incurred water damage for years and have currently 3 water leaks that the building refuses to call a roofer in to repair. Management and the President have been informed of this since the spring. Their response? In writing, management said : "the leaks are my fault because when they started two years ago (you) did not take down your sheetrock ceiling." It gets worse than that, on many other issues (poisoning my dog with exterminator's poison left out in the open in hallways), refusing to have co-op hired contractors repair damages to my property (for example, in March, my screen in my bedroom - not replaced until mid-Sept (after the summer) by a kind co-op member - not even the contractor. To get that done management wrote the whole co-op to which I responded in over 60 emails! This should have been dealt with, and resolved, in 3-5 emails max. And the other damages were never taken care of - my co-op approved fireplace chimney, my co-op approved air-conditioner pipe, through which much of the water has penetrated. The last leak - a gusher in the hallway 1' from my door (and, lower, on this pitched roof, so the water thus flowing or pooling inside my premises) was in July, the water running through the hall light fixture down to the floor below me - it took management 3 months to come and look at the damage in the hallway - they refused to look at the damage inside my loft at all. Then management w/the building handyman - not a roofer - went to the roof to do a visual inspection - when, just minutes before they did look at the water damage in my rental loft next door and the manager's eyesight is so bad she could not see water stains on the walls and ceiling that were 2' x 2' - she had to ask the handyman to point each one out. I could see them from 15-20' away).
I am trying to sell the loft next door - they took two months to call a meeting to discuss it - then said they have to do "due diligence" research, I am doing all work to present the space to the market with a licensed architect, to code, with building permits, etc, to the tune of about $100,000 - all borrowed money. The president does not respond to the architect's request for an Alteration Agreement (Alt 2, so there is no responsibility to the co-op at all as to their spaces or hallway) - and as they refuse to repair the roof, and it is now winter, I am effectively prohibited from selling my loft next door. I have levels of mold (as tested by three different licensed laboratories) that are above the highest number (4) and it seems they might at least do that work - but without repairing the cause of the water. My rental tenants moved out Oct. 19 and so my income is diminished to the point where I must choose either to pay maintenance or mortgages - lost rent and mortgage interest is costing me $8,000 +/- a month I do not have, I am dipping into the construction money for repairs without which my broker - Sotheby's - has said it would be "near impossible" to sell.
The co-op now wants me to rent roof space for my co-op approved skylights installed 15-30 years ago - my legal air and light; they all installed lot-line windows for bedrooms & bathrooms which they are now losing due to construction next door - I am an architectural designer also and offered to give free design assistance to all co-op members so that they might have everything they have now, thus working around the loss of windows. The request for me to pay rent for my skylights came from three different co-op members within 24 hrs of realizing they were going to lose their windows. They have all overlooked that I was making a deal with the lot next door (I spent over 50 hrs on this) that we could lease the lot, park our cars, and have a garden to protect their windows to which not a single person responded - not even a single thank you.
I am now a senior citizen. I have lived here mostly since 2000 and it is the only home I have ever had since leaving home at 17. I have moved over thirty times and been in Loft Law lawsuits for over 13 years (I was told by Chuck Delaney, head of Lower Manhattan Loft Tenants, that I, alone, had had the worst landlord harassment of all loft tenants in NYC - even a NYC policeman in uniform told me to get a gun, a NYC council person sought me out to tell me my life was in danger) and I really can not move again. I have treatment-resistant PTSD from those lawsuits (the co-op knows this, probably), my paternal lineage is Mennonite, my husband recently died (who in his lifetime kept the co-op in order, at least better than it is now) and the co-op is - of course - taking advantage of this. In the past I have represented myself in court (and even won) but I am older now and fairly worn down, and out. I do not have any money for a law suit! I can not rent my loft or even the loft next door due to the mold! I can not repair the loft to prepare it for sale! I can not sell the loft even! Whatever am I to do? This is a nightmare. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Response by truthskr10
about 12 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
Oh, I am confused as you wrote " I would have liked to have bought a small part of the roof, as my neighbor next door would have also," but you are full floor apartments leaving you the sole resident.
In any case, your problems are way beyond the scope of this board and you need an attorney.
If there are 4 of you and the one buying the roof is not the president, that leaves you only 1 other resident you must align with to stalemate a vote. And you'd have to read the bylaws carefully but most would likely have a member ineligible to vote on a matter pertaining to them (the buyer of the roof). Still leaves you with the 3 left, you , the pres, and that last owner.
I don't think the AG gets involved in things like this.
There is no magic answer here, you need a good attorney.
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Response by Flutistic
about 12 years ago
Posts: 516
Member since: Apr 2007
A lawsuit may not be necessary. A consult with an attorney is free, or they will tell you upfront if it is not. Sometimes just a strongly worded letter from your atty will help. An atty is what you need, affordable for you or not.
Never mind that "near impossible to sell" without repairs line from the broker. Call a different agent, try Corcoran. The market is so hot right now for sellers, if there ever was a time for you to sell, the time is now. You would not believe the stuff that is selling right now! You might decide not to do that, but that broker is talking through his/her hat.
I'm not a spring chicken either. You need to summon up your strength and just do what needs to be done.
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Response by drdrd
about 12 years ago
Posts: 1905
Member since: Apr 2007
Don't let them screw you, young lady; I fear they are trying to. Don't be a victim. Also, be careful about sharing too uch info on an open chat board. I wonder if calling 311 about the mold would be a start but do call an attorney & see what they say. Best of luck to you!
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Response by lucynegri
about 12 years ago
Posts: 3
Member since: Jan 2010
Truthskr10 & Flutistic
Thank you for you kind responses....5 weeks ago I wrote a 4-page single-spaced list "of my grievances" cross-referenced with email documentation (about 20 pages), inc a miscellany of a related email documents - not as to postponing the sale of the loft or any issues about the roof rights. My letter was focused on the roof, leaks, mold, management opinion that mold in my ceiling "is not to be remediated under any circumstances, you was to cover it with sheetrock, poisoning of my dog, threatening harassment by a worker for the building who lives in the basement (this worker also did the same to the only other female owner in the building), that the President was not an owner or shareholder and this is not in compliance with our By-Laws/Proprietary Lease, that I wondered why our President was also our Manager, Secretary, Treasurer and Vice President for 29 years - a clear violation also of our By-Laws...As of the next day of the lawyer being in receipt of my letter, the President was dismissed, and the Manager is no longer the President (and is thinking of selling), the worker is now polite, the Manager is now so nice to my (ill) dog it is hard to imagine that she was ever so nasty about co-op negligence as to placement of poison....So that lawyer has helped.
But I do need a lawyer to settle. I have the documents well organized and I hope a letter will do the trick. It is hard for me to understand how neighbors could be so heartless and just plain mean. A friend who is a social worker is aghast that all of my neighbors are so difficult and then in total lack of knowledge and/or disregard of our co-op By-Laws and Proprietary Lease (except questionable as to roof rights and my skylights).
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Response by jobouma
about 12 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Jan 2013
Good luck. I hope you are able to resolve this. I hope your dog feels better! (dog lover)
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Response by ronnyb
about 12 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Nov 2011
Hello,
I'm looking for a loft in soho.
I might be interested to purchase the unit and could do the renovations myself.
is there an email I could contact you on?
Regards,
Ronny
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Response by mh330
about 12 years ago
Posts: 105
Member since: Oct 2006
I just happened to be reading another blog, that directly addressed your issue. Apparently, according to the Condominium Act:
"Let’s say there was a portion of a roof that someone wanted to build on, the Condo Act would prohibit the board from selling roof space unless every unit owner consented to that sale. It protects the common interests, it protects the common elements and it sets forth the parameters of what rules and regulations the condo board can oppose."
Maam, as all have suggested here, it is best to call an attorney ASAP. Posting here will not get you the right information. This is far too complex. I would also NOT write any more letters to the board or to anyone without the direction and COPY EDITING of an attorney. Nothing personal but the tone of your letters is very important.
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Response by FreebirdNYC
about 12 years ago
Posts: 337
Member since: Jun 2007
One other suggestion - if you are in a Soho loft I assume it is zoned artist in residence. I have been told that the DOB has begun cracking down on AIR violations. If your neighbors are really doctors and lawyers and don't have their AIR paperwork in order, you have a very strong hand you can play since they are there in violation of the COO and illegally. (This of course assumes that your artist status is well documented and indisputable - clearly don't want to pick this fight unless it's one you're sure that you will win)!
You need to speak with an attorney specializing in real estate ASAP. An initial brief consult should be free or cheap. The long-term value of your investment is on the line here.
It's hard for me to imagine that you don't have any rights, but I don't know specifically.
Just because the co-op seems well managed and businesslike does not mean what they want to do is lawful.
Our UES co-op building, in consultation with its managing agent, a major firm, stupidly installed a fitness room without securing a certificate of occupancy for such a use. It's been 2 years, 3 expediters so far, and I personally don't think they will ever get the CO they require, for a variety of reasons. That's just a handy example.
I'd like to recommend Serpico, Serpico & Siddiqui in Brooklyn; we are clients of theirs. Definitely find a real estate specialist attorney, ideally with litigation experience too.
How many units in your building?
Im surprised you or none of your top floor neighbors are on the board.
I would think one would want to be on the board just to be on the ground floor for roof matters.
Whatever your proprietary lease states obviously can be changed with a board vote.
My building would never make that big a decision without including the whole building's input.
But we are a small co-op.
I would engage an attorney immediately as this can profoundly affect home both in livability and value.
At the very least, you and your top floor neighbors should insist on attending the next board meeting to discuss the matter.
Aside from other avenues of legal arguments to block this sale, your board has a fiduciary obligation to everyone in the building.
This includes giving you and your neighbors the opportunity to outbid for the roof space if it is going to be for sale.
Dear Flutistic & truthskr10
Thank you very much for your responses. I know I'm really in deep trouble and appreciate any help I might be given.
My husband, recently dsceased, was an architect who became a painter, & organized this building in 1971. Everyone paid the same amount of money - $10,000 total per floor - and my husband chose the top floor and did all of the architectural work to bring the building in to compliance. There is only one original owner from that period, and he is an absentee owner. My husband's view of he roof was that it would be shared as a garden by all tenants, which it was.
I am also the only artist in the building, for which the district Soho was founded. Everyone else in the building is in finance, and there is even a lawyer.
My building is a small building - a store (2 shares) and 4 residental units (one per floor, one share each) of which I am the top floor. Everyone in the co-op is on the board - all of us are V.P.s.
This is not a well-run building at all; I have perhaps 100 emails to prove that (I have had roof leaks and incurred water damage for years and have currently 3 water leaks that the building refuses to call a roofer in to repair. Management and the President have been informed of this since the spring. Their response? In writing, management said : "the leaks are my fault because when they started two years ago (you) did not take down your sheetrock ceiling." It gets worse than that, on many other issues (poisoning my dog with exterminator's poison left out in the open in hallways), refusing to have co-op hired contractors repair damages to my property (for example, in March, my screen in my bedroom - not replaced until mid-Sept (after the summer) by a kind co-op member - not even the contractor. To get that done management wrote the whole co-op to which I responded in over 60 emails! This should have been dealt with, and resolved, in 3-5 emails max. And the other damages were never taken care of - my co-op approved fireplace chimney, my co-op approved air-conditioner pipe, through which much of the water has penetrated. The last leak - a gusher in the hallway 1' from my door (and, lower, on this pitched roof, so the water thus flowing or pooling inside my premises) was in July, the water running through the hall light fixture down to the floor below me - it took management 3 months to come and look at the damage in the hallway - they refused to look at the damage inside my loft at all. Then management w/the building handyman - not a roofer - went to the roof to do a visual inspection - when, just minutes before they did look at the water damage in my rental loft next door and the manager's eyesight is so bad she could not see water stains on the walls and ceiling that were 2' x 2' - she had to ask the handyman to point each one out. I could see them from 15-20' away).
I am trying to sell the loft next door - they took two months to call a meeting to discuss it - then said they have to do "due diligence" research, I am doing all work to present the space to the market with a licensed architect, to code, with building permits, etc, to the tune of about $100,000 - all borrowed money. The president does not respond to the architect's request for an Alteration Agreement (Alt 2, so there is no responsibility to the co-op at all as to their spaces or hallway) - and as they refuse to repair the roof, and it is now winter, I am effectively prohibited from selling my loft next door. I have levels of mold (as tested by three different licensed laboratories) that are above the highest number (4) and it seems they might at least do that work - but without repairing the cause of the water. My rental tenants moved out Oct. 19 and so my income is diminished to the point where I must choose either to pay maintenance or mortgages - lost rent and mortgage interest is costing me $8,000 +/- a month I do not have, I am dipping into the construction money for repairs without which my broker - Sotheby's - has said it would be "near impossible" to sell.
The co-op now wants me to rent roof space for my co-op approved skylights installed 15-30 years ago - my legal air and light; they all installed lot-line windows for bedrooms & bathrooms which they are now losing due to construction next door - I am an architectural designer also and offered to give free design assistance to all co-op members so that they might have everything they have now, thus working around the loss of windows. The request for me to pay rent for my skylights came from three different co-op members within 24 hrs of realizing they were going to lose their windows. They have all overlooked that I was making a deal with the lot next door (I spent over 50 hrs on this) that we could lease the lot, park our cars, and have a garden to protect their windows to which not a single person responded - not even a single thank you.
I am now a senior citizen. I have lived here mostly since 2000 and it is the only home I have ever had since leaving home at 17. I have moved over thirty times and been in Loft Law lawsuits for over 13 years (I was told by Chuck Delaney, head of Lower Manhattan Loft Tenants, that I, alone, had had the worst landlord harassment of all loft tenants in NYC - even a NYC policeman in uniform told me to get a gun, a NYC council person sought me out to tell me my life was in danger) and I really can not move again. I have treatment-resistant PTSD from those lawsuits (the co-op knows this, probably), my paternal lineage is Mennonite, my husband recently died (who in his lifetime kept the co-op in order, at least better than it is now) and the co-op is - of course - taking advantage of this. In the past I have represented myself in court (and even won) but I am older now and fairly worn down, and out. I do not have any money for a law suit! I can not rent my loft or even the loft next door due to the mold! I can not repair the loft to prepare it for sale! I can not sell the loft even! Whatever am I to do? This is a nightmare. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, I am confused as you wrote " I would have liked to have bought a small part of the roof, as my neighbor next door would have also," but you are full floor apartments leaving you the sole resident.
In any case, your problems are way beyond the scope of this board and you need an attorney.
If there are 4 of you and the one buying the roof is not the president, that leaves you only 1 other resident you must align with to stalemate a vote. And you'd have to read the bylaws carefully but most would likely have a member ineligible to vote on a matter pertaining to them (the buyer of the roof). Still leaves you with the 3 left, you , the pres, and that last owner.
I don't think the AG gets involved in things like this.
There is no magic answer here, you need a good attorney.
A lawsuit may not be necessary. A consult with an attorney is free, or they will tell you upfront if it is not. Sometimes just a strongly worded letter from your atty will help. An atty is what you need, affordable for you or not.
Never mind that "near impossible to sell" without repairs line from the broker. Call a different agent, try Corcoran. The market is so hot right now for sellers, if there ever was a time for you to sell, the time is now. You would not believe the stuff that is selling right now! You might decide not to do that, but that broker is talking through his/her hat.
I'm not a spring chicken either. You need to summon up your strength and just do what needs to be done.
Don't let them screw you, young lady; I fear they are trying to. Don't be a victim. Also, be careful about sharing too uch info on an open chat board. I wonder if calling 311 about the mold would be a start but do call an attorney & see what they say. Best of luck to you!
Truthskr10 & Flutistic
Thank you for you kind responses....5 weeks ago I wrote a 4-page single-spaced list "of my grievances" cross-referenced with email documentation (about 20 pages), inc a miscellany of a related email documents - not as to postponing the sale of the loft or any issues about the roof rights. My letter was focused on the roof, leaks, mold, management opinion that mold in my ceiling "is not to be remediated under any circumstances, you was to cover it with sheetrock, poisoning of my dog, threatening harassment by a worker for the building who lives in the basement (this worker also did the same to the only other female owner in the building), that the President was not an owner or shareholder and this is not in compliance with our By-Laws/Proprietary Lease, that I wondered why our President was also our Manager, Secretary, Treasurer and Vice President for 29 years - a clear violation also of our By-Laws...As of the next day of the lawyer being in receipt of my letter, the President was dismissed, and the Manager is no longer the President (and is thinking of selling), the worker is now polite, the Manager is now so nice to my (ill) dog it is hard to imagine that she was ever so nasty about co-op negligence as to placement of poison....So that lawyer has helped.
But I do need a lawyer to settle. I have the documents well organized and I hope a letter will do the trick. It is hard for me to understand how neighbors could be so heartless and just plain mean. A friend who is a social worker is aghast that all of my neighbors are so difficult and then in total lack of knowledge and/or disregard of our co-op By-Laws and Proprietary Lease (except questionable as to roof rights and my skylights).
Good luck. I hope you are able to resolve this. I hope your dog feels better! (dog lover)
Hello,
I'm looking for a loft in soho.
I might be interested to purchase the unit and could do the renovations myself.
is there an email I could contact you on?
Regards,
Ronny
I just happened to be reading another blog, that directly addressed your issue. Apparently, according to the Condominium Act:
"Let’s say there was a portion of a roof that someone wanted to build on, the Condo Act would prohibit the board from selling roof space unless every unit owner consented to that sale. It protects the common interests, it protects the common elements and it sets forth the parameters of what rules and regulations the condo board can oppose."
http://cooperator.com/articles/1238/1/Doing-it-By-the-Book/Page1.html
Maam, as all have suggested here, it is best to call an attorney ASAP. Posting here will not get you the right information. This is far too complex. I would also NOT write any more letters to the board or to anyone without the direction and COPY EDITING of an attorney. Nothing personal but the tone of your letters is very important.
One other suggestion - if you are in a Soho loft I assume it is zoned artist in residence. I have been told that the DOB has begun cracking down on AIR violations. If your neighbors are really doctors and lawyers and don't have their AIR paperwork in order, you have a very strong hand you can play since they are there in violation of the COO and illegally. (This of course assumes that your artist status is well documented and indisputable - clearly don't want to pick this fight unless it's one you're sure that you will win)!