building at 170 East 78th Street

Are these apartments priced appropriately? Shouldn't the smaller apartment have a proportionally lower maintenance?? If not, shouldn't the asking price be lower? What's the appropriate relationship between asking price and maintenance?

That building's tough to calculate, what with all the extra-height rooms and the way the apartments interlock in different ways from floor to floor.

The smaller one is a two-apartment combo, while the larger one is three. The share allocation was driven by perceived rental value at the time of conversion, so it may well be that the smaller high-floor two were valued the same as the low-floor three.

And then prices have been diverging in the 30-odd years since conversion, what with different levels of renovation and changes in what buyers value.

That'd be a good one to get the offering plan, just to see what the share-allocation pattern is.

Wow - I am always impressed with the depth and breadth of knowledge on this board. NWT, how do you even know the conversion history and details of this building?!! We are very interested in the building, but the price - maintenance issue just seemed odd. Also, the apartments seemed to have sat there for a really long time so we weren't sure if there was something wrong with the building that would eventually make it difficult for us to resell as well. How would we get the offering plan and who could we bring it to for help in interpreting it?

I just like the building. The plan for one kind of floor is at hathitrust.org. It shows four corner apartments, all more or less the same, and the upper part of the two middle studios from the floor below. That one floor makes it seem symetrical and tidy, but it gets complicated on the in-between floors, with the interlocking, and the apartment letters change from floor to floor. There is a pattern, but you'd have to build a 3D model in your head to see how it works.

Anyway, the offering plan details are at http://offeringplan.datasearch.ag.ny.gov/REF/planformservlet?id=CC880032. Somewhere else on the site there's a form where you can put in a Freedom of Information Law request to see the offering plan and make copies. A guy from the AG's office will call, and you can go down to the Equitable Building to make copies.

The easier way is to just have one of the sellers let you look at theirs, but buyers hesitate to do that, as if it's an odd pre-contract request for a multi-million-$ investment.

On the other hand, those sellers don't really want to sell, or they would've by now.

The high floor triplex has a very strange layout. The kitchen is all by itself on the top floor, overlooking the "great room" - very very inconvenient for actual living.

That's the problem with those buildings where a stack of two high-ceilinged living rooms is backed by a stack of three floors of the other rooms. For half of those apartments the LR is half a level down from the kitchen etc.

This one's plan isn't quite accurate. It shows a sort of dining balcony that isn't there. A picture of that side of the room is at http://media.bhsusa.com/pictures///1567736-4_l.jpg

On to the big-first floor apartment. It's called 124C because the dressing room and bath, raised half a floor above the master bedroom, are actually on the fourth floor. The bedroom/bath/kitchen wing of 3C is tucked in underneath. It's the David Duchovny/Tea Leoni apartment. They bought it from the building's sponsors, who decamped to a smaller apartment when their kids had all gone off to school.

Wow - again, I am incredibly impressed by the level of detail you know about the building and these specific apartments. Would you consider purchasing either apartment? Do you think they are appropriately priced?

They're both out of my league.

Just going by the time they've sat unsold, they're both overpriced.

The upstairs one less so, as it did go into contract once, four months ago. They lost the rare buyer who wanted that LR and didn't care so much about the rest. Maybe last month's price cut will bring out a new buyer who'd passed it by before.

NWT, would you happen to know if the apartments are sitting there because of the board? Is it a difficult board that makes it difficult to sell?

Amity95 - I live in this building and used to be on the board. If you have further questions I can help. Not sure if it is too late

Amity95 - I live in this building and used to be on the board. If you have further questions I can help. Not sure if it is too late

Ella - Could you briefly explain why the maintenance is so high in the building? High level of service? Few units? Recent upgrades?

There are a number of units in the building on the market, which is unusual given the tight inventory. Does it have anything to do with the difficulty of the board? Is it possible to broadly outline post-closing financial requirements from the board's perspective?

InterestedParties
On the maintenance point, I dont think it is terribly high (especially when compared against the sister building across the street). 75% of the maintenance costs are fixed in the form of RE taxes and Labor. The other variables are tightly controlled. The 1 bedrooms on the market now have around $2200/month maintenance which I think is not unreasonable for a pre-war doorman building on the UES. Also bear in mind this building has NO mortgage

Yes there are a high # on the market. One is in contract. Two are total fixer uppers (the 2nd floor and 10th floor triplex). The Maisonette is very unique, though right now I think it is priced appropriatly I think the 10th floor combo really has the most potential to be something special. I think it is just coincidence. If you looked 12 months ago you would have found 1-2 units listing which is average for any given time. These are unique units

The board is reasonable right and not overally difficult. There needs to be very solid liquidity post closing and the ability to service fixed maintenance/mortgage costs for many years should income deteriorate. I think 2-3x assets post close is a good ballpark

Elle, thanks so much for your comments. I do think that there are many unique units in the building that will find the particular buyers suited to them. I especially like the one bedroom units. They are fantastic and remind me of Old New York.

The maisonette is certainly unique, but it will take an unusual buyer to pay more than the purchase price from the sponsor.

10BE has the potential to be an awkward combination given the unusual layout. I'm not sure that many buyers will want to go to the trouble, when there are so many combinations that are much more natural than this one.

I appreciate the information on the Board requirements. They seem reasonable.