Combination Costs / Headaches

Some starter warnings:
1) Expanding the bathroom may run afoul of any "wet over dry" restrictions the building has.

2) Moving / upgrading / consolidating the electric means essentially rewiring the entire apt, which can get expensive, because you will have a lot of replastering to do, and may have to run new wire back to the meters.

3) Ask you building super what's in the walls where you would break through: plumbing? electric, vents, etc.

3a) Also ask him about the viability of moving the sink (same wall, probably not a problem; different wall, probably not doable).

4) How long is it going to take, and where are you going to live while the work is in progress? If you're rewiring, you probably can't stay there.

5) Is the combined maintenace per square foot reasonable for similarly serviced 2br/2ba in the neighborhood?

Thanks Aaron. I spoke to my super, and he said no issues expanding the bathroom or moving the sink (even to a different wall). Obviously once I get a contractor in to scope the place out and talk with the super further, the specific bathroom design may change.

The wall I'd break through just has electrical. At least in my apartment, it's the tail end of the run so it would involve shortening the wire and not re-routing. The super said that prior combinations in the building retained the separate circuit breakers in each apartment. He said I could combine the meters but it's probably too big a cost to be worth it.

I know from having done it in my apartment when I bought it, that the wiring itself is generally good and, like I did, I should just have to upgrade to a circuit breaker from a fuse box, and possibly add a couple outlets here and there.

There's plenty of power running from the meter into each apartment, since when I renovated my current apartment I had no trouble adding new outlets and circuits for the kitchen and other areas.

Combined maintenance would run around $1650, which I think is fairly reasonable in the union square area for a 2br/2ba. I can't imagine it's a quick process, and I was planning on living in my apartment during the construction. The biggest hazard in my current living area would be when it came time to re-do the floors, but I think with careful timing I could switch between different finished parts of the apartment. My current thinking wouldn't call for any modifications to my current bedroom, bathroom, or kitchen. The current living room would be affected only by re-flooring and molding, which seems manageable.

Technorat,

Please ask your management co if you can do wet over dry. The super is useful to ask questions but he is not the one making the decisions.

technorat,

Designs (archi and/or ID costs), permits, coop board, mgmnt companies, budget overruns, delays.....even a relatively simple renovation in one apt could become nightmares once the job starts. You'll need to be 110% committed with a combination.

"...and I was planning on living in my apartment during the construction."
Don't underestimate this. It could get ugly.

Have you thought about simply buying a 2BR? Unless you have other reasons for the combo, I'd seriously consider it if economically feasible.

~ justmy2

Please ask your management co if you can do wet over dry. The super is useful to ask questions but he is not the one making the decisions. "

This, squared.

I wouldn't even ask the super about moving sinks; most supers know how to fix them, but hardly enough about installing them.

Get an engineer in there for the preliminary questions about CAN it be done. Then go through the board to find out if it MAY be done

vslse65....in the end the substantial increased value of the combination instead of outright buying the 2 bedroom is well worth the inconveniences and cost.

Thanks everyone. To answer the question about buying a 2 bedroom vs. doing the combination, the increased value of the combined unit based on my own comp search, taking into account neighborhood current listings plus actual building comps, would be around $150,000 to $200,000 from the acquisition/renovation cost. And maintenance would be on the relatively low side for that size with approx. $1,700 per month for 1,200 sq. ft.

Do people have an (obviously) rough estimate/range of cost to expect? My expectation is that obviously the bathroom will be the largest item ($20k), followed by flooring and electrical ($15k), with the build-out of the closet/office next in line ($5k) and then painting ($3.5k). Obviously there's then fees for demo, architect, engineer, permits, molding and the magical scope of work increase.

When two apartments are combined “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts,” said Jonathan Miller, president and co-founder of Miller Samuel, the real estate appraisal company. He said the general equation is “one plus one equals two and a half.”
“The reason for this is our market is a high-density metropolitan area with a premium placed on contiguous space,” Miller said. “For example, if a co-op shareholder with a two bedroom apartment decides to combine his apartment with a studio that becomes available, the studio would assume, at a minimum, the price per square foot of the two bedroom it is being combined with.”

A studio added to a 2 BR resulting in a 3+BR/3 BTH IMHO results in a much more valuable combination, given the relative scarcity of that size unit, vs. a 2 BR/2Bth, of which there are many. Check out other discussions on this subject.

Technorat,

Without seeing your apt its hard to give prices but I think you are too low. A typical bathroom in manhattan costs 25k and up

Can't comment further on cost/benefit analysis w/o more data. It's never as easy as it looks on paper and there are always other "costs", not just $$$. But if you've done your homework and are prepared, go for it.

GL

Technorat, from experience I think you renovation will cost over 100k

I combined my 2 bed with a 1 bed a few years ago (coop). It wasn't that crazy. What made it easier was having a good expeditor and architect. Since my combo was very simple (took out a wall connecting the 2 apts, closed off one interior door, added another, removed one kitchen), I drew my own plans and paid a flat fee for architect to draw properly and self certify (this is worth the extra money IMHO!)
I also lived in my old 2 bed while they did most if the work. For the floors, we moved all the furniture into the living room and did rest of floors, then moved it out of living room todo those floors. My guess is you won't be able to live there during this but you can prob not move all your furniture if your contractors patient/willing.

Good luck!!

Did a combo about a year ago. Pretty much gutted the place and added a bathroom. The combo was worth WAY more than each apartment separately and sold it pretty much right after completion. Went to contract in a couple of weeks. My biggest mistake was trying initially to save money by keeping things when it eventually it became clear that it was cheaper and easier to just remove pretty much everything and start again.

Good luck and enjoy yourself. I had a blast.

Also!, are younsure you sure that you want to live through it? I downsized to a" temporary" rental where I am still living small with no regrets. I think that trying tonlive there and just going halfway may not get you the best result.