I just purchased a duplex condo in Manhattan and the stairs to the upper level are in a poor position. (There is awkward 18" ledge that runs the entire side of the stairs, leaving a lot of wasted space. The apt is in a loft building from 1900. The stairs, which were added when the building went condo in the early 80s, are clearly not up to code (relatively steep rise, 26" wide, and only about 6'3"... [more]
I just purchased a duplex condo in Manhattan and the stairs to the upper level are in a poor position. (There is awkward 18" ledge that runs the entire side of the stairs, leaving a lot of wasted space.
The apt is in a loft building from 1900. The stairs, which were added when the building went condo in the early 80s, are clearly not up to code (relatively steep rise, 26" wide, and only about 6'3" of clearance at the minimum). Since space is at a premium, I would prefer to have relatively narrow and steep stairs, but my architect says that if we move the stairs they need to be 100% up to code, which would take up a ton of space on both floors. However, since these are not egress stairs and are only "internal" stairs within my apt, I was under the impression that there was more wiggle room. In looking online, some resources seem to refer to these as "convenience" stairs and suggest that only public stairs, etc., need to meet the more stringent criteria. However, my architect and expediter have never heard of these. Any experience or knowledge you might be able to share?
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Response by semerun
almost 10 years ago
Posts: 571
Member since: Feb 2008
Interior staircases need to meet stringent criteria- listen to your architect and expediter.
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Response by kdawgydwg99
almost 10 years ago
Posts: 9
Member since: Feb 2012
Not what I was hoping to hear, but appreciate the info. It also seems strange that the building was gut renovated and the duplexes were added as new features in the mid-80s. Has the code changed that much since then?
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Response by lad
almost 10 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009
What neighborhood, and what was it like in the 1980s?
I lived in a "duplex," reconstructed from shell condition c. 1970, when Chelsea was still rough. We found out the upstairs was never filed with the city when we went to do renovations. The upstairs was too big to be a mezzanine, but didn't meet the definition of a full floor either.
This was apparently one of several post-plan approval changes the architect / owner made in 1970, when no one cared about Chelsea, and I guess no one ever inspected? The architect did a few other buildings in Chelsea, and all of them have similar issues -- mezzanines added, cellar-level apartments, unfiled extensions, illegal decks, etc. Some of the issues were solved at the time of co-op conversion, but some (like ours!) continued to be swept under the rug until someone went to file with the city.
In our case, the city accepted / grandfathered the mezzanine / extra floor, but we did have to widen the replacement (spiral) staircase to meet code. I don't remember all the specifics. The code for convenience stairs is not as stringent as for egress stairs, but you can't just do whatever you want.
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Interior staircases need to meet stringent criteria- listen to your architect and expediter.
Not what I was hoping to hear, but appreciate the info. It also seems strange that the building was gut renovated and the duplexes were added as new features in the mid-80s. Has the code changed that much since then?
What neighborhood, and what was it like in the 1980s?
I lived in a "duplex," reconstructed from shell condition c. 1970, when Chelsea was still rough. We found out the upstairs was never filed with the city when we went to do renovations. The upstairs was too big to be a mezzanine, but didn't meet the definition of a full floor either.
This was apparently one of several post-plan approval changes the architect / owner made in 1970, when no one cared about Chelsea, and I guess no one ever inspected? The architect did a few other buildings in Chelsea, and all of them have similar issues -- mezzanines added, cellar-level apartments, unfiled extensions, illegal decks, etc. Some of the issues were solved at the time of co-op conversion, but some (like ours!) continued to be swept under the rug until someone went to file with the city.
In our case, the city accepted / grandfathered the mezzanine / extra floor, but we did have to widen the replacement (spiral) staircase to meet code. I don't remember all the specifics. The code for convenience stairs is not as stringent as for egress stairs, but you can't just do whatever you want.