I know this is probably a discussion that has been beaten over and over. For my 1400 sq ft gut renovation I've now received bids from Design & Build Companies and architects. I've read in different forums that D&B for a gut renovation is not the way to go. That there is no real accountability involved since your are putting your eggs in one basket. On the flip side, I've heard, if you're... [more]
I know this is probably a discussion that has been beaten over and over.
For my 1400 sq ft gut renovation I've now received bids from Design & Build Companies and architects.
I've read in different forums that D&B for a gut renovation is not the way to go. That there is no real accountability involved since your are putting your eggs in one basket.
On the flip side, I've heard, if you're doing a basic design/layout having an architect seperately will be expensive and overkill.
The bids:
D&B 1 : All labor, finishes, permits, 290k + 9-12k for Architect
Architect: May charge hourly but thinks the project will be around 300-380k
Contractor: Says he can do the job for 250 (I would have to hire an architect)
So, I'm not sure what to go off on. I did get other quotes but I'm just mentioning the 3 above.
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 9 years ago
Posts: 10550
Member since: Feb 2007
If you are happy with what D&B is providing (finishes, marble/stone, cabinets, lighting, closets, appliances, door hardware, fixtures etc) and do not plan on making changes, that seems like a way to go. Just make sure that the contract is capped and includes field changes etc. In addition, D&B tend to work with few standard designs rather than customizing everything to your liking. If you are ok with that, it will save you time and hassle in decision making.
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Response by bryantpark
almost 9 years ago
Posts: 83
Member since: Dec 2011
I think it's good to a separate architect / contractor yourself - like you say, there's a bit more accountability that way, and if you have problems with someone you can swap them out without starting the whole thing over with someone new.
I think you just need to shop around for an architect, and be very clear and firm about budget. You have some bids, so it's not like you're making the number up - you just need to tell them the budget is $250, or $300 max, plus $20k for architecture (or whatever you feel comfortable with - not hourly for an unbounded number of hours). Not $380k for the whole project.
It's true that costs can vary, and there are high end or low end finishes that can be used, but at the end of the day there's only so much value to be added to a given apartment, so you need someone who can target that number, and not treat it as an open-ended or unknowable thing.
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Response by manhatta
almost 9 years ago
Posts: 41
Member since: Nov 2013
My name is Richard Garey and I am the principal of Manhatta Architecture, P.C. http://www.manhatta.net/ Should you opt for the "design and bid out" option, I would be happy to put together a proposal for architectural services. As noted above, Design/Build tends to limit your flexibility in terms of competitive bidding the general contracting which is the most expensive line item on a renovation.
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Response by saj8200
almost 9 years ago
Posts: 56
Member since: Mar 2009
SEasy56479, can you say which direction you went? Are you willing to share the D&B and contractor you interviewed? Thank you.
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Response by saj8200
almost 9 years ago
Posts: 56
Member since: Mar 2009
SEasy56479, can you say which direction you went? Are you willing to share the D&B and contractor you interviewed? Thank you.
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Response by SEasy56479
almost 9 years ago
Posts: 75
Member since: Aug 2016
Hi Saj,
I had some really great offers from both Design Build and Architects to bid out. I chose to go the more traditional route of Architect -design-bid out process.
At this time however, we are just about to finish the design part and bid out in the next couple of weeks. It was a long process mostly because I wanted to choose the right architect and I had yet to close on my property. I only closed this past week.
I certainly keep this thread updated as I get further along the process.
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If you are happy with what D&B is providing (finishes, marble/stone, cabinets, lighting, closets, appliances, door hardware, fixtures etc) and do not plan on making changes, that seems like a way to go. Just make sure that the contract is capped and includes field changes etc. In addition, D&B tend to work with few standard designs rather than customizing everything to your liking. If you are ok with that, it will save you time and hassle in decision making.
I think it's good to a separate architect / contractor yourself - like you say, there's a bit more accountability that way, and if you have problems with someone you can swap them out without starting the whole thing over with someone new.
I think you just need to shop around for an architect, and be very clear and firm about budget. You have some bids, so it's not like you're making the number up - you just need to tell them the budget is $250, or $300 max, plus $20k for architecture (or whatever you feel comfortable with - not hourly for an unbounded number of hours). Not $380k for the whole project.
It's true that costs can vary, and there are high end or low end finishes that can be used, but at the end of the day there's only so much value to be added to a given apartment, so you need someone who can target that number, and not treat it as an open-ended or unknowable thing.
My name is Richard Garey and I am the principal of Manhatta Architecture, P.C. http://www.manhatta.net/ Should you opt for the "design and bid out" option, I would be happy to put together a proposal for architectural services. As noted above, Design/Build tends to limit your flexibility in terms of competitive bidding the general contracting which is the most expensive line item on a renovation.
SEasy56479, can you say which direction you went? Are you willing to share the D&B and contractor you interviewed? Thank you.
SEasy56479, can you say which direction you went? Are you willing to share the D&B and contractor you interviewed? Thank you.
Hi Saj,
I had some really great offers from both Design Build and Architects to bid out. I chose to go the more traditional route of Architect -design-bid out process.
At this time however, we are just about to finish the design part and bid out in the next couple of weeks. It was a long process mostly because I wanted to choose the right architect and I had yet to close on my property. I only closed this past week.
I certainly keep this thread updated as I get further along the process.