Sale at 77 Park Avenue #15F

I think this is probably why the Brokers of 4F and 12F did not list any square footage. The units are the same size as the co-ops in the area being listed at 1550SF. So if you list this as 1,235SF everyone thinks either "it's too small" because the other apartments that they are seeing and being told are 1500 square feet are the right size for them, or they you think "they are asking too high $/SF" because people have become over focused on that metric.

And how many times these days do you see Brokers listing an extra bedroom that doesn't actually exist because "you could renovate the apartment that make an extra bedroom" (or am I the only one who has a pet peeve about that?).

Mine is misstated sq footage for condos as it is stated in the condo offering document. We know the coops are funny and full Floor loft listing sq footage has gone to foot print of the full floor - which you can easily confirm.

This house went from 3,390SF
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1194936

To 5,200SF
https://streeteasy.com/building/586-4-street-brooklyn/house

Looks like they are now including the cellar in the SF and the floor count. There used to be rules for this kind of thing. Its a sad state of affairs for the brokerage industry today.

In all fairness, on the 4th ave house, the 'cellar' floor looks to be the english basement (ground floor) level, with windows and exits to the outdoors, so I don't have any problem with including it in the s.f. (I lived for 25 years in an apt at that level). What bothers me is that they spent all that money on the renovation, and still didn't manage to reroute or hide the heating pipes. (listing also says central air and gym, both of which are so cleverly hidden I can't find them) (and 'pets allowed'. For a townhouse. ??)

I guess to be fair to brokers, there is pressure to show lower $psf. But as I said, there used to be rules - written and unwritten - on how to describe properties in a listing and how to measure size.

If I remember correctly (memory fading as we speak), if a floor was more than 50% below grade, at the street side, the SF was not to be counted. Anyway, the bigger point is that there should be consistency. There will always be properties that people will argue to bend the rules, like bedrooms without windows.

I remember years ago selling what I called a Classic 6 - two bedrooms, separate DR, LV, K and large 150sf+/- gallery. The broker however corrected me and said it was only a Classic 5 as the gallery was not counted as a room. If instead of the gallery I had a small 60-70sf maid's room, it would be a Classic 6. Didn't make a whole lot of sense but she said these terms were clearly defined in literature and she would not take the chance with her reputation to call it anything but what is really was. Although I was disappointed, she had my full respect.

When I sold a vacation home in Litchfield County, I noticed that the tax card did not show the correct SF due to a renovation. When I was looking to list it with a local agent, I was told that many people, including the tax assessor, might notice the discrepancy. One broker actually said she would not put in the listing any measurements that where was reported on the tax card. Another broker told be that if I want to change the listed SF, I should contact the tax assessor first. Of course, this would mean having my assessment raised. Its not that the assessor did not know of the renovation but only that they failed to calculate the added SF. I ignored that option but instead calculated exactly how the assessor would determine the new SF and new AV and kept that information to share with buyers if asked. AS third broker agreed with me on this strategy and we went ahead ultimately to a smooth closing.

While townhouse stated measurements have increased tremendously, at least it is easily measurable by simple taking the foot print of the building. I rarely see overstatement for condos as they really have to go by the offering plan and overstatement is a much more serious legal issue for the seller and the broker.

Yes, 300. For condos, the general rule is to indicate SF only if from a definitive source like a legal document. That was one of the reasons that in the past, coop listings never indicated the sf. Brokers were worried about liability. But this appears to be changing. It seems only a matter of time until townhouse brokers find ways to shrink their measuring sticks and "find" extra sf. How about a roof with a patio garden? Or a shed in the rear yard? Or terraces & balconies? All these features add value so there is pressure to allocate additional sf to reflect this. When I sold my Classic 5, I made sure to list the sf of the terrace but never added it to the total sf. Others may think differently and there is sure to be litigation over this trend some day soon.