Can make two offers at the same time?

Yes, you dont have a deal with the first seller until a contract is signed. Offering plan is normal to obtain from mgmt co; financials are not.

... and if your accepted offer did not address flip tax, you don't really have a deal. Newcomer, did you have a buyer broker?

Of course you can make offers on other apartments because you don't have a deal on the first.

If you want the apartment, I do not think it is worth debating who pays for the offering plan from the managing agent. You can certainly make other offers till the time contract is signed.

Thank you all for the advice. Is it a general practice for buyers to pay for offering plan ($400 ) in NYC? I have a buyer broker and she said she used to give free copy when she as seller's broker. I guess it may be seller's or seller's broker's strategy to delay time so as to get another higher offer?

Newcomer, I don't know when your offer was accepted but if you haven't executed a contract by now, I would be worried. Are they still showing the apt? You or your broker can ask them not to. Review of offering plans typically comes after contract is signed.

Newcomer,
Do you really want to lose a deal over $400 (I am not saying it is reasonable but I have paid $250 of r copy before)? Perhaps you do not like the apartment enough. Many condo plans are available for free online but for coop, if the existing owner has lived in the apartment for a long time, it is unlikely that they have it. You should be happy that you got them to agree to pay the flip tax (I am surprised that your broker did not negotiate this as a part of the offer). When you complete your application for a coop, there will be many other charges you are not going to like. You will need to make peace with it. It is a painful process.

Every day past 10 days from an accepted offer the chances decrease that you will ever have a signed contract.

Thanks everyone for your comments.
300_mercer, you are right, I do not like the apartment enough and never paid such fee before sign of contract since this is first time I am buying in NYC. Too many things to learn.
ximon, the broker is not holding open house this weekend but I don't know if he is still showing the apt.

Actually, it is my attorney is fighting with seller's attorney. He said he's been in business for 20 years, never seen buyers to pay for offering plans.

I (a broker, not an attorney) side with your attorney on this point: It is customarily SELLER'S responsibility to provide your attorney with the documents that you need to do due diligence.

If the seller is being particularly recalcitrant for whatever reason, then the seller's broker reaches into her pocket (not that I'm offering to do it for the next client, but I've certainly done it before) to get the offering plan from the managing agent. If I were you, I would mention the impasse to the listing broker, and urge him/her to correct it ASAP. In the meantime, you're within your rights to keep shopping.

ali r.

Good luck. Keep looking. If you need a more knowledgeable broker who will walk you through these issues, talk to Ali.

>>300_mercer, you are right, I do not like the apartment enough<<

If this is the case then everything else is moot. Find something you love.

Again, thanks all for your comments. Good to know it's SELLER'S responsibility to provide documents. How important is the offering plan? Is it more important than the financial statements?

Will keep looking and make another offer if find something I love.

To some extent, the Offering Plan dies when the conversion is completed. Most of them are boilerplate. The biggest reason to read them is to see what has been changed from the boilerplate version. This is especially true in Land Lease buildings. You also want to see what rights the Sponsor is retaining especially with regards to any commercial space in the building.
The current financials as well as any recent amendments to the Offering Plan are probably more important.

30yrs_RE_20_in_REO, thank you very much. will take a closer look at the financial statements and recent amendments to the offering plan once receive.

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BTW The "worst" way to buy an apartment is to find one single apartment that you are absolutely in love with and pay whatever it takes to purchase it. A much "better" way is to find multiple apartments that you could live with, make offers on all of them, and then cake the one which ends up being the best deal. One of the few things which Donald Trump has said which I totally agree with is "I don't buy a property because it's the one I want. I buy a property because it's at the wrong price."

30, I agree with your approach but depending on the budget and whether the price is within 5-10 percent of reasonable market value, emotional factors are very important if you want to live in it for a while. People go on fancy vacations, have extravagant weddings rather than civil ceremony, buy designer clothing / $3k handbag / $300 bottle of wine at a restaurant - all for emotinal reasons.

Of course I was talking about economic optimization. However, I will add that I think most people overthink the decision on which apartment to buy, and in reality would be just about as happy living in 90% of the apartments which they looked at.

I couldn't agree more with the last few posts. It is clear that many/most investors think with their hearts as well as their brains. But if you fall in love with a handbag, bottle of wine or even a Ferrari, you are not likely endangering your economic future by indulging in them.

Not only would most people be just as happy living in a more modest home, they would be more financially secure. You cannot put a price on piece of mind.

Trying to make another offer. But my current broker seems NOT like it since it is lower than the first one (even told me seller only accept cash offer but actually NOT). May I use another broker to submit a second offer? Does NYC allow buyer to use multiple brokers for multiple offers at the same time? Moreover, if a broker knows a specific building, may help buyer to better prepare board package. Am I right?

Yes.

NewComer17, you want to make a lower offer on the same apt or on another apt? If it's the same apt I would tell your broker to stop whining and do as you say. If it's another apt, you should be glad to be rid of him/her.

ximon, on another apt at different building.

NewComer, there are two things going here: one is your desire to finally secure an apartment, and one is the brokers' desire to parcel out money and move onto the next thing.

As far as your second target apartment, if you have not seen it with your first broker, and your first broker has had no contact with listing agent, bring in anyone you want as your second broker. Listing agent will pay second broker. (Though it might be nice if you let second broker know what's going on, in case first broker calls him/her -- this might be a situation where second broker decides to pay first broker a referral fee).

If you have seen the target apartment with your first broker, or even if your first broker has somehow registered you, you can still bring in a second broker to make an offer through -- but listing broker is going to want you to create a statement that you are "breaking up," so to speak, with first broker. And first broker might be able to claim some of the commission on the deal, so listing broker and first broker and second broker are all going to wade through that .

ali r., broker
{upstairs realty}

Newcomer, Find a broker you trust and do not second guess too much. Studios and 1 bedrooms resale in coops are in great demand as that is what many people can afford due to relatively attractive price in absolute $ amount.

front_porch, thank you so much for such detailed advice about dealing with different brokers !!!

@newcomer, you're welcome. I have made many great friends through this board (and met some wonderful clients) so I'm just trying to "pay it back."

ali r.

Front_porch, hi. Over the course of a few years, nyc condo/co-op price has gone up significantly, generally speaking. There is a 2bd co-op in UES I am looking to make an offer on. It's old (built in 1920) but is decently maintained, at least it appears so. One reason that holds me back from going forward: the units in this building have not seen a price increase in the last 10+ years. Good for me now because I can get one at an affordable price but am worried that I will have to sell it at the same price I bought for in next .... 10 years, let say.

I asked my buyer agent but his "guess" isn't very convincing. Just BS sales pitch and not giving me the thorough background analysis/investigation i want.

What could be main reasons a co-op price hasn't risen along with the neighbor's similar co-ops????? I've been trying to search for NYC Co-Op review sites but found none. I just wanted to find out if there's a major & constant & non fixable issues with the building that other people know and talk about. Hence the price not going up.

I am told the co-op board is just typical board, not too stringent. The financials are sound, although I am just taking the buyer agent's word for it. I mean what else should I check? Where else should I investigate to dig up potential issues or reasons for the price not being increase at all???

Many thanks in advance. BTW, of course I am not buying it just for the profit aspect. I am buying it because I want to live in it. But at the same time I don't want to lose money when I decide to sell it in the far future. Selling it at the cost, I am losing $$ on closing fees... you know..

Have you looked at the maintenance history?

Hi, 30yrs. No, I haven't. I will ask my agent to get the history and will take a look. One thing I noticed was that the tax deduction rate in the maint. was close to 70% which was a bit high. Usually it's close to 50%.

No price increase in the last 10 years? As 30 yrs said, look at maintenance or is it a land lease building or HDFC building? Why not lift the address here?

Keith Burkhardt
The Burkhardt Group

List...

Maybe it's a sponsor controlled building, or unwarrantable for some other reason.

Jc, If you are comparing price from 2007 and early 2008, there is indeed a chance that prices have not increased. I am assuming you are comparing apartment prices in similar condition rather than a renovated sale with view to unrenovated apartment with no view.

The co-op I am mentioning is not a HDFC building. That's one of the first things I look at. Neither is it a sponsor controlled building, I asked that during the viewing. Maybe it's unwarrantable but I thought that applies mainly on Condos, not Co-ops? But I will investigate.

@300, so my comparison was on a broad term and not really "scientific". Because I've been actively searching a place in the city for a year now I've observed many listed co-ops in UES that has gone increase in price, holistically speaking. I used StreetEasy and Zillow to see the units and look for the Price History section. Some has records dating back to 2004 and some starts 2012, etc...

I've looked many past sales of the units in the building I am looking at. None really has been sold at a premium irrepective of the units condition, renovated or dump, windowed/non-windowed, good/bad views. The units are all listed at a high premium, of course. But the sold price is always back to where the sellers have bought 5, 10, 15 years ago. It just tells me one thing: the building is not worth the premium.

I am still investing as to why. I wish the agent would do the investigation for me but... who cares more about the apartment than the actual buyer, right?

Hmm, jcman, that is odd: have apartments on the UES gone up in the past ten years or haven't they? Let me look at Carnegie Towers; looks like the convert-3s have gone up about 20% in that time period. It's debatable whether that post-war in the 80s is "typical" (I picked it simply because it's the last UES building in which I did a buyer agency) but I certainly understand your concerns when you look at prices and don't see any growth.

The lack of growth could be due to any number of factors; the ones cited above are all possible, and I can think of at least two more. On the other hand, I don't see an advantage to publicly posting the listing either.... I certainly don't want to disrupt a deal in progress. If you want to write me at upstairs realty [at] gmail we can go into this further.

ali

Is it possible to switch a buyer's broker during the re-negotiation process (i.e., it stopped two weeks ago due to some reason and now want to re-negotiation offer price)? It was a big agent too busy to talk to buyer in details and very impatient. I am thinking to use another buyer broker but the first one has already communicate with seller a few times. Is the NYC real estate law allow buyer to switch agent to bid the same apartment?

I am pretty sure the answer is yes.

Did you sign anything with the buyer agent?

Did the buyer agent find you the property? If so It is possible the buyer agent could claim procuring cause and be entitled to share in the commission.

Did not sign anything with the buyer agent. I found property and brought broker in just to submit offer thought need help to prepare board package. still need to share commission?

It will depend on who your new broker is whether he/she is willing to deal with the potential dispute with the other broker. A high quality broker probably will not get into this situation. As a minimum, before you submit a new offer via a new broker, you should tell your existing broker in writing that you are withdrawing your offer.

Thank you all for your advice. To avoid complication, may I just submit offer to seller directly without using any broker? if so, still need to share commission?

Newcomer, You need help. Get a good broker who will assist you with the process.

>>Thank you all for your advice. To avoid complication, may I just submit offer to seller directly without using any broker? if so, still need to share commission?<<

Your current broker could still make a claim for commission. He'd have to duke it out with the sell-side, but it could muddy the waters and hurt your deal.