Price continue to drop.

dco, why must you embarrass yourself over and over again? The average ppsf in that area in over $1,000. Obviously, there is something about this apartment that makes its ppsf way under just about all the other listings in the area. Why do you generalize the entire market based on one anomaly and look foolish all the time?

And it's still $1700 psf, after these reductions:

Price History

05/05/2007 Listed in StreetEasy with Elliman at $1,600,000
07/17/2007 Price decreased to $1,495,000
11/14/2007 Price decreased to $1,399,000
05/04/2008 Price decreased to $1,300,000
07/28/2008 Price decreased to $1,200,000

LMAO.

Perhaps they forgot to read this:

Politcians Turn Their Focus To City, State Budget Woes
July 28, 2008

Governor David Paterson confirmed this morning that he will deliver a special address to New Yorkers tomorrow evening on the state's poor financial condition.

At the press conference, he will break the news that services will be cut and the state workforce must be reduced.

The governor will order state agencies to reduce budgets beyond the 3.3-percent cuts ordered earlier this year.

"One thing about panic, at least the situation is being addressed," said the governor today. "We don't have to panic, because there are ways we can respond. But, we're going to have to respond immediately."

Paterson has reportedly been meeting with financial experts and former state officials from the administrations of Governors Mario Cuomo and Hugh Carey.

Paterson could call the state Legislature back in session to propose revising the budget.

Declining tax revenues are a major cause behind the crisis, which is reminding many of the financial doom the state faced in the 1970s.

As for the city, both Paterson and Mayor Michael Bloomberg are attending a Financial Control Board meeting.

The city says it has seen revenues fall by a billion dollars since May because of the insecure financial situation.

At the meeting, City Comptroller Bill Thomson testified that while the 2009 spending plan is balanced, the city is facing deficits in years to come.

Thompson predicts the city's debt payments will increase nearly eight percent a year over the next four years – adding up to nearly $24 billion, as a result of disappointing tax revenues and increasing overtime costs.

Thompson says the city needs to start addressing this with capital spending to soften the blow down the road.

"Because of its long-term benefits, pay-as-you-go financing must be returned to the plan as soon as possible," said Thompson. "The city's budget will continue to be under pressure for sometime to come."

Those future problems, including recent Wall Street losses, were at the forefront of the mayor's remarks to the FCB.

Bloomberg said the $59 billion 2009 budget that he negotiated with the City Council is well suited to deal with the economic decline. The plan keeps government spending flat to mitigate ballooning out year deficits.

"The good news is that we are as prepared for this downtown turn as I think we can possibly be," said the mayor. "When the economy was booming we did not squander our money on politically popular projects and giveaways, instead we ran surpluses and used that money to pay down debt early."

Bloomberg also praised the board, which was created during the 70s fiscal crisis, for leading the city through its worst days. The board is expiring this year.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=84253

"And it's still $1700 psf, after these reductions:"

My bad. It's $705 psf. Getting close - for this neighborhood, expect $600.

LICC - you're crazy. LICC is NOT going to hold its value. No way.

It's a really pretty building, too:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/166988-coop-301-east-69th-street-lenox-hill-manhattan

For all you people who claim that prices are what the comps say, this becomes the new comp.

LICCommen- It is you my friend, that is embarrassing yourself, by not acknowledging what everyone else sees.

It's going to get alot uglier. Just wait for new developments to start lowering prices. The banks are not going to wait to get paid. The clock is ticking and the payment is due.

Wow, look at this listing: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/154592-condo-3-east-75th-street-upper-east-side-new-york

LIC looks like a great deal compared to this! The whole UES must be as expensive as this apartment, right dco?

LICC, that is the DUMBEST post ever made.

dco, you do realize that apartment's maintenance is listed at an insane $2406 per month, right? For a 2BR, that's quite a dealbreaker. For the record, I prefer Williamsburg to most of the UES, although this stretch of it's pretty nice. LIC is not to my taste at all however, though I understand why a lot of people lump it in with Williamsburg. But visit both places and you'll see the differences.

*this stretch of it is pretty nice.*

BJW - out of curiosity, why do you generally prefer Williamsburg to the UES? Is it a transport issue, nightlife issue? I honestly would like to know your opinion.

"And it's still $705 psf, after these reductions:"

Looks to me to be about 1300 sq. feet maybe 1400 with walls.
No way it is 1700 sq feet.

kgg I thought the same thing: 1300 sq. ft. at most.

> LICC, that is the DUMBEST post ever made.

Not sure about that... he's had *quite* a few winners besides that one...

Is there something wrong with this building? I know we're in a major decline, but $700 psf is kinda crazy this soon. Is this a land lease building or something?

I attest to EddieWilson's findings.

1) As several other people mentioned, there is no way that this is 1700 sq. feet. Just adding up the rooms (minus baths) puts you under 1100. Maybe this is 1300 square feet.

2) As several other people mentioned - $2400 maint. for an apartment this size, in this location and building is a big turn-off.

3) While this is on the upper east side - it's on 69th between 1st/2nd - not exactly prime UES.

4) The apartment looks like it has seen 0 renovations since forever.

5) The rooftop that they picture to draw people is a tar roof with no special view (if these are the pictures the broker is showing - what do you think the apartment/building actually looks like).

6) Starting at $1.6 on this apartment given the foregoing was a huge mistake. Between the price cuts and being on the market for over a year - this place now has a huge negative stigma.

Given the foregoing - I would not use this as an example of how the market is falling as much as an overpriced/poorly marketed outlier apartment in an otherwise strong neighborhood.

"I would not use this as an example of how the market is falling as much as an overpriced/poorly marketed outlier apartment in an otherwise strong neighborhood."

What else would steve and Eddie use to mentally masturbate each other? They are the Beavis and Butthead of NYC real estate.

joepa- Every-time someone points out a unit, that the "bulls" don't agree with, there has "to be some reason". And I agree. The reason is, the market stinks. Some sellers see the writing on the wall, albeit in this case over a year. I have said it repeatedly, the longer it takes for the sellers to accept the market conditions, the longer this correction will take. I fully understand the personal decision to wait for the best offer, I'm referring from a market perspective.

> "As several other people mentioned - $2400 maint. for an apartment this size, in this location and building is a big turn-off"

If you read my post you would of seen that I mentioned the high maintenance. I'm sure if you ask the listing agent he/she will tell you it's "60% deductible". Also I have seen units in City Lights with $700 sq st. asking and $2700 CC/ Month. So it's all relevant.

I don't care if you like the UES or not. That's not the point. It's the fact that prices are beginning tumble in Manhattan. So if the UES is seeing reductions, I'm quite certain that prices will suffer all over. I could make that place look amazing for $50,000, paint and new floors and this place would be unrecognizable.

> "The rooftop that they picture to draw people is a tar roof with no special view (if these are the pictures the broker is showing - what do you think the apartment/building actually looks like"

Who the hell cares about the roof. Really, that's great and everything, but Id rather have gotten a great value on the unit.

This unit is 1700 sqft as much as any other unit listed by a NYC realtor can be. You can call it a standard deviation, so no point arguing about it. Units listed at 1300 are 1000 and those listed at 1000 are 750. For that matter, you can start assuming that, at its inception as a measuring unit, "one foot" was not measured against Charlemagne's right foot, but against Gary Coleman's. Doesn't matter, its the one measuring unit NYC realtors use, and all of them use it in an equally unreliable manner.

Yes, all real estate is 30% overstated in square footage.

It is all part of the European scheme to convert us to the metric system and devalue the dollar so real estate declines.

dco, do you not know that Citylights is the only building in LIC with maintenance charges that high. Every other new development there have common charges that are in low range. A 1200-1300 foot 2-bedroom in LIC will have common charges around $800-900/month. When will you stop with this dumb cherry-picking that you always do?

"They are the Beavis and Butthead of NYC real estate."

One more enlightening comment by JuiceMan.

"It is all part of the European scheme to convert us to the metric system and devalue the dollar so real estate declines."

LMAO. 1 square meter is NOT 10 square feet.

"A 1200-1300 foot 2-bedroom in LIC will have common charges around $800-900/month."

I believe that that is slightly more expensive than the common charges on the dark side of the moon.

Which is what LIC is.

A great developing neighborhood with a lot of young professionals - that would be the dark side of the moon to a cranky old bitter man.

LICComents

>> "dco, do you not know that Citylights is the only building in LIC with maintenance charges that high. Every other new development there have common charges that are in low range. A 1200-1300 foot 2-bedroom in LIC will have common charges around $800-900/month. When will you stop with this dumb cherry-picking that you always do?"

http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1234901

Chew on this LIC- New Development (5 LS ) at almost $1700 month CC's and only 1500 sq ft. Now what? What's the problem with this? There must be some tremendous issue with this place. And the worse part is that this is with the abatement. Imagine when the abatement runs out. LIC at $450-500 sq ft. not a penny more, anything else is just being ignorant to market conditions.

"A great developing neighborhood with a lot of young professionals - that would be the dark side of the moon to a cranky old bitter man."

No - that would be where angels fear to tread. The asking price for LIC is the same as for the E.V. I prefer the E.V. a thousandfold, and there are things to do.

Wait! I forgot! They're opening up a DUANE READE! OMG!

dco, you just show everyone how dumb your comments are the more you post. ok, ths 5SL apartment you cherry-picked is a three-bedroom unit, with over 1,000 square feet of additional private outdoor space, and its common charges are still $1,000 less per month than the UES apartment you picked. I'll concede that apartments with lots of outdoor private terrace space will have higher common charges than those that don't. Otherwise, thanks for making my point for me.
Try to not be so bitter that you can't afford an LIC condo, and just accept that prices will never come down to your level. You will be able to take a more realistic view of things that way.

"dco, you just show everyone how dumb your comments are"

Can't you think of a better line, dipshit?

"Try to not be so bitter that you can't afford an LIC condo"

You've said that if you can afford LIC, you can afford Manhattan. Are you saying the reverse isn't true?

LICComment- Like I said there is always a reason, you mu friend are hopeless in LIC.

LIC- Here is another at almost $1500 month in CC's. So you stop telling people that all units in LIC have CC'S below $900. Face facts, as Manhattan prices fall so will the surrounding areas. Keep fighting the good fight.

http://www.halstead.com/detail.aspx?id=1234825

This is really funny: "Try to not be so bitter that you can't afford an LIC condo."

Grammarwise, it's atrocious - how can ones "bitterness" lead them not to be able to afford a LIC condo? Surely "because" would be the correct word.

But then, the hilarious implication: Long Island City has become The New Destination, better than, say, Laguna Beach or Monaco.

Yup - foreigners are lining up to buy...where? LONG ISLAND CITY!

ones = one's

Steve - you correcting someone's grammar is like Keith Richards telling kids not to use drugs.

dco, thanks for picking out another 3-bedroom apartment (with just over $1200/month in cc's, not $1500 - do you need glasses?). I'm not sure what your point is on that one.

actually, joepa, you can criticize me for lots of stuff, but my grammar is perfect. My editing sucks, but I make a very good living from my grammar.

"BJW - out of curiosity, why do you generally prefer Williamsburg to the UES? Is it a transport issue, nightlife issue? I honestly would like to know your opinion."

It's mostly a nightlife issue, but also because the UES is filled with either wealthy old people (west of Lexington), or straight-out-of-college young people (east of Lexington). I don't fit into those demographics (though I wouldn't mind eventually turning into one of the former), so I find the neighborhood to be pretty boring. I lived on the UES (wealthy old part) for a year, and there are some nice things about it, but Williamsburg has more to offer in terms of bars, restaurants, music. There are parks in Williamsburg - they'll never be on par with Central Park, but at least they're around; transportation is better than advertised (the L can get crowded, but it's clean, comes frequently during rush hour, connects to almost every line you'd need) and I get to work at least as quickly from there as I would from the UES (I work by Wall St). I'd also say Williamsburg is already at a good place, but continues to develop, whereas the UES is a bit stale in comparison. There are reasons to like both places, but that's my take. Hope it helps.

why anyone needs an explanation as to why williamsburg beats UES is not attuned to the current dynamics of the real estate market. there's a reaosn ppsf in ues is so low compared to the other areas. its boring as shit up there.

"there's a reaosn ppsf in ues is so low compared to the other areas." What other areas are you talking about and where are you getting your stats?

Comparing the two is a stupid exercise. Might as well compare caviar to beer.

"Comparing the two is a stupid exercise. Might as well compare caviar to beer."

joepa, I was asked the question, so thought I should oblige. I don't think it's a stupid exercise though - there are legitimate reasons to want to live in each neighborhood, and while they are quite different in some respects (and the UES is very unpopular right now, probably unjustly so), it's not like we're talking Soho vs Fallujah here either.

That's fine, although I think many a broker will disagree as to how unpopular the UES is. It's not the latest fad market in real estate - but it is generally the most consistently desired. And for a reason - the combination of proximity to Central Park, the best schools, the best museums, number of buildings with upscale amenities, good restaurants, and public transportation. It might scream boring to you but, to many, it says best place to raise a family in the city and a solid investment.

And for many first time buyers, particularly those who want the convenience of living below 96th St, it's often the only game in town. Combine the availability of "starter" apartments - beginning from the high 200K's - with the often "easy" Co-op Boards in some of the older walk-ups, it's no wonder the UES is often considered the "value" leader for those looking for that first Manhattan apartment.

And you don't have to go to York and beyond to find these values. With some diligence and some fortuitous timing, sub 300K apartments can be found west of First Avenue, and occasionally west of Second.

bjw- how about a camparison of LES vs. Williamsburg? I'm looking considering both areas.

joepa, I'm not arguing against the UES. It is and has been a family-oriented neighborhood that benefits from the list you have up there. I'd argue that the restaurants are a bit lacking compared to downtown/midtown, but that's true of the UWS as well.

johnrealestate1, I think you can find value in almost any area that's not considered top-tier (essentially Tribeca, Soho, WV). As you said, it just takes some diligence and a little luck.

newaccount, the LES is tricky, because it's pretty big and my opinions change from block to block. I like the areas above Grand St and west of Clinton (though Delancey itself is a mess). Anything else is a case-by-case scenario, and though some people seem to really like Seward Park and the eastern stretches of Grand, I'd avoid those - they're the final frontier of Manhattan and feel more disconnected than even Williamsburg. In general though, there's tons to do in terms of food, drink, music, shopping. It is obnoxiously loud and crowded (invaded, actually) on weekend nights, and even some weeknights. Transportation-wise, it's ok, though it mostly relies on the F and JMZ, which aren't always pleasant. Green space is hard to come by (Seward Park and the East River are a decent walk from where I'm talking about), and I would never call the LES a particularly clean neighborhood. Still, it's got its charm, and if you can find a good deal, it's certainly worth looking at. I prefer Williamsburg, but I'm really only talking about the northside, west of the BQE, and maybe small pockets around the Lorimer and Graham stops on the L. It also really depends on how attached you are to Manhattan - Williamsburg's as close as it gets, but many people have a psychological hangup about the river in between (which I understand to a degree) and that will likely always keep property values a bit below what's on the other side.

There is no way that apartment is anywhere near 1700 square feet. It is 1350 at best and that puts it at about $1.78/square foot for maintenance with is a bit high. Add in to that the fact that the apartment needs some work and it is overpriced. If it goes for $1.1 million at 1350 square feet it is about $815/square foot which sounds about right.

bjw2103 - You are correct - you can find "value" in just about any area, particularly the "non-trendy" locations. My wording was a bit careless, as I wanted to emphasize UES "affordability", particulary for first-timers.

"Try to not be so bitter that you can't afford an LIC condo."

And this from the guy complaining that others are whining and not posting facts...