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Can I be my own general contractor?

Started by Ywriterct
about 7 years ago
Posts: 9
Member since: Apr 2018
Discussion about
Recently bought a 600 sq ft place on UWS in as-is condition. I am planning a gut renovation (take down a wall, new floors, bathroom, kitchen) and am looking to cut costs as much as possible. Willing to do a lot of the finishes DIY. With that said, can I serve as my own GC, and just hire the necessary sub contractors?
Response by 300_mercer
about 7 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007

You can but the building approvals and DOB construction permits will be very diffcult. Also, the trades will charge you more money than they will to an experienced contractor.

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Response by Primer05
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009

Ywriterct,

"Just hire the necessary subcontractors" if it was only that easy. It took me roughly 15 years to find the subs I could trust. I do not believe the savings would be worth all the problems you can have.

I have received so many calls over the years from not only people hiring inexpensive contractors to hiring their own subs. We just finished a project where the owner hired their own demo subcontractor. That sub said he would be done in 2 days. The day he was supposed to start he canceled, he did come the next day and then did not show up. he did come the 4th day. He claimed he was done but he had in his contract to remove the glue from the subfloor. He never came back and we had to spend 2 days removing the guy.

On the same project, the owner hired their own stone guy... He canceled 3 times causing delays.

Most subs, more so for the very cheap ones do not have the proper insurance. if something happens you will have major problems (what I mean about proper insurance is not the amount they say they have but the actual policy that will not cover many accidents.

You dont have to hire the most expensive contractor but for a full gut renovation I would think about it

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Response by 300_mercer
about 7 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007

In addition to the issues Primer described, who will pull the permits for construction and who will be the contractor of record for these permits? I can understand if you are just painting the walls, doing the floors and replacing kitchen cabinets- you do not really need a permit or a GC. Once you have a bathroom, the chances are high that you have to redo plumbing, which is not trivial.

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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
about 7 years ago
Posts: 9876
Member since: Mar 2009

Can you? Maybe, depending on how many construction projects you have done before, if the Board in your building will let you, if you actually have access to qualified subs who will work for you rather than GCs which are keeping them working constantly, if you can get insurance, if you can find an expediter who will work with you, etc.
Will you actually save any money the first time you do it? Probably not.
Will you finish your project on the timetable you think? I can almost guarantee no.

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Response by Primer05
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009

It is possible your building will only require an LAA permit which the plumber can pull but that is only one problem that can be avoided. I don't usually quote people but my favorite is

If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do a job, wait until you hire an amateur

Red Adair

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Response by 300_mercer
about 7 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007

I was watching “reno my reno” on Netflix.
https://www.netflix.com/title/80194061

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Response by front_porch
about 7 years ago
Posts: 5312
Member since: Mar 2008

Two decades ago, I GC'd my own reno (paint, kitchen updates, bathroom) in a co-op to save money. It was, as you can imagine, a lot of yelling at people to show up. My subs were great, but sometimes they went out on jobs that were higher priority than mine. So I second 30 yrs' comment that you may be able to adhere to your budget .... but expect that you need to be on the job site every day, and still expect the timetable to slip a little.

OTOH, I'm a real estate broker, so when I have seen my clients use GCs, I have seen their timetables sometimes slip too.

The more you can nail down what you want (and do your shopping beforehand, down to the sink and faucets and cabinet knobs) the easier it will be. Also if you can use subs that have worked in the building before, that will help too.

ali r.

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Response by stache
about 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
Member since: Jun 2017

I did most of my own demolition and waste removal as the house rules approved. I saved quite a bit on the renovation this way.

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Response by 300_mercer
about 7 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007

Stache, Did you demo the bathroom as well? Walls are easy, parquet floors are not too difficult but bathrooms which require you to be very careful about plumbing inside?

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Response by Primer05
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009

Stache,

Out of curiosity:
How did you do waste removal?
Did you check for asbestos and lead paint?
What type of building are you in? What are your "house" rules?

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Response by stache
about 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
Member since: Jun 2017

Was not complete reno. Only replaced toilet in bath, which the plumber did. I took out floor and baseboard plus part of a framed wall, down to the rebar. I did not go into the kitchen. I'm in Ali's old building in Chelsea. There is language in our house rules about 'do it yourself' being ok. There is some kind of tar over the concrete floor which I assume contains asbestos which I ultimately decided not to disturb. Waste went into cardboard boxes which I took to various dumpsters in the area in true NY fashion. My dad was a carpenter/homebuilder so I'm familiar with all of this.

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Response by 300_mercer
about 7 years ago
Posts: 10539
Member since: Feb 2007

That is hardly a demo if you do not touch bathroom and kitchen and can put garbage in a few cardboard boxes and dump it illegally rather than a having to call a 20 yard container.

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Response by JSM31
about 7 years ago
Posts: 34
Member since: May 2017

What is your time frame? What kind of finishes do you want? What type of building do you live in? Your answers will determine what a realistic budget should be. Just out of curiosity, what are you looking to spend on this project?

Do you have access to skilled trades? Have you worked with these individuals/companies before? Do they all have proper insurance that your building and management company will accept? Will their employees be covered by workers compensation should something happen on the job site? Will you increase your coverage with all these people working in your apartment? Can you take off time from work to be present every day? Will you coordinate scheduling with all of the subs? (your floor guy cannot work when someone is trying to plaster the walls in the same room). Will you participate in daily email/text groups with all of your subs to make sure everything is on target? Is the wall you want to remove load-bearing? How will your building grant approval without proper drawings/permits?

You will be much better off trying to find a halfway decent GC who can work with a realistic budget instead of trying to do this on your own.

Years ago, someone in my old building tried to "save a few bucks" by GC'ing their own project. It became a complete disaster. The unit owner took the lowest estimate for every single trade and ended up with the worst possible results money could buy. You want it cheap? Sometimes you get what you ask for. Somewhere between my 5th or 6th rental renovation, I came to the realization that using an inexperienced but "cheap" plumber was costing me a lot more in the long-run. Never made that mistake again.

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Response by stache
about 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
Member since: Jun 2017

300, that's why I opened with 'not a complete reno.'

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Response by Primer05
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009

Stache,

You opened with:

"I did most of my own demolition and waste removal as the house rules approved. I saved quite a bit on the renovation this way."

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Response by Irt_Brian
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2
Member since: Jan 2009

If it was only so easy.

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Response by Primer05
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009

Stache,

One more thing, if you removed the tile from the bathroom and found black tar on the floor you probably did disturb it which is exactly what you don't want to do with asbestos and you probably threw it away incorrectly. Nothing you can do about it now but that is a pretty good reason to hire professionals instead of doing it yourself.

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Response by stache
about 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
Member since: Jun 2017

Didn't remove bathroom tile. New toilet went on top of it. Old parquet was removed.

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Response by Primer05
about 7 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009

If you removed old parquet over black tar than you most certainly disturbed the asbestos and where did you throw it away?

I am very surprised your building would allow this.

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Response by stache
about 7 years ago
Posts: 1292
Member since: Jun 2017

Building just ground down/refinished concrete floors in street level storefront. No tenting or special containment procedure.

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