What will this sell for?

I'm curious, why do you want it? If you view it as small and overpriced then don't you think you'd be better off looking at another apartment? It doesn't seem like there is anything particularly unique about it and I would think that you could find a lot of alternatives.

If there is something unique that is drawing you to it then perhaps that differentiating element is what is justifying the price.

It is location, view, and a terrace/balcony. Lower floors without terrace have sold for appx $1.15mm. Not that many 1 bedrooms with view available in the village. Why not call the broker and ask "you are thinking of $1.17mm" and see what they say?

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1271197

Here is the issue with the statement that outdoor space is worth 50% of indoor space: clearly 15E and 17E have pretty much the same total space. So is 17E (where some of that space is only worth 50% as much) worth less than 15E?

30, 17e is smaller than 15e in interior space but I am not sure of the difference in view. That is why I was suggesting the original poster to check about $1.17mm. At the end of the day, it is an area in demand with young people and 1 bedrooms continue to disappear in this area perhaps more than other parts of the city. Crappy looking building though.

So you decided to totally ignore the point I was making rather than even attempt to refute it. I'll take that as an admission that it's correct.

No. I did not ignore it. My estimate of value at $1.7mm came out below 15E sale assuming there is no difference in view. However, market will tell. There days it is not possible to confirm or refute your point of view with actual data as the exactly the same apartment in a new development sells at different price at about the same time due to different discounts buyers may negotiate. For resales, the timing of sales and interior conditions vary greatly. I stick to roughly 50 percent on interior as a starting point and adjust from there for various factors. The biggest factors being utility, relative size of the outdoor space and how much extra maintenance you are paying for it. This one came at the cost of cutting the bedroom but it is large enough to be very useful. So personally I would be at 50-60 percent of indoor space without knowing maintenance.

What is the percentage share allocation from back in the day for a data point? We know market can be very different from the share allocation.

“Estimate of $1.17mm”.

30, At least I am willing to put a number on it. What is your number?

For general reference of people reading this thread. Maintenance or CC is a big unknown factor.

https://www.millersamuel.com/terra-logic-understanding-the-value-of-manhattan-apartment-outdoor-space/

I think 17E is worth more. If it doesn't sell for more it's merely another example of how far the market has fallen.

There will be no way to separate the impact the value of the outdoor space from market price change impact as one bedroom resale market in this area is strong due to limited supply.

Thanks for your thoughts. I did look at 15 also and tried to buy that one but the seller was a sponsor and wouldn't budge on making the buyer pay the taxes. (Is there a way to tell if the sale price for 15 includes the taxes?) The view is the same but the rooms in 15 were bigger. I quite like the building and the apt is nice. It is just hard to justify paying a lot for outdoor space when the building has a great roof deck. It has also been hard to find something that doesn't need a lot fo work

Believe transfer tax is included. What is the share allocation of 15E and 17E?

You just answered your own question. It's got the high floor and terrace. Bells and whistles. Plus the market is heating up again so people are going up with prices and the maintenance is reasonable. Roof deck really does not matter. It's like saying building has a laundry room, why do I need a w/d in my apartment. Does not hurt to make a lower offer. See what happens!

Reno looks nice, which is a plus, and while some may not like the look of the building, the plus is that when you're in it, you don't look out the window and see it all the time. If it's well maintained and run (i.e., reasonable history of maintenance/assessments, etc.), then it's probably fine. The small bedroom would make it a dealbreaker for me, and the extra small kitchen would wear on my nerves (though my current one isn't much larger and I'm not a frequent cook). It is 'ordinary', and there is no shortage of this floorplan in NYC. Offer $1.11m, and negotiate from there.

So what are all the other "prime" Village 1 brs in doorman buildings in mint (relatively) condition, with open views and private setback terraces?

This has to be priced for niche market of crazy people who value outdoor space in way that is beyond comprehension to the vast majority of buyers. This thread prompted me to start discussion re 439 E51 PH10/11. I am not an otudoor-niche-buyer and would head for 860/870 UN Plaza for comparable views, maintenance and square feet. It only takes one buyer, and I feel like these otherwise generic units with outdoor space are always priced for that crazy niche market. I’ll be watching this one.

That's similar to saying that Ideal cut, Flawless, D color diamonds are priced for crazy people compared to I1, Fair cut, Yellow diamonds.

Fair enough.

I think is I1, Fair cut and yellow besides being in lesser part of the Village.

I think it is I1, Fair cut and yellow besides being in lesser part of the Village.

I took 30yrs’ comment to mean that the outdoor space is the flawless diamond and that those for whom money is not an issue will have no qualms about paying the premium for it. FWIW, I am in 300_mercer camp in devaluing the outdoor space, but it won’t surprise me if the small apt with outdoor space on higher floor trades above larger one with no outdoor space on lower floor, all other things being equal.

Mcr, 30 and I like to argue with each other.

It's a rarity issue. I'll repeat "So what are all the other "prime" Village 1 brs in doorman buildings in mint (relatively) condition, with open views and private setback terraces?"

60 East 8th street is a much better building and you can get bigger apartment for similar price.

And virtually a condo which should get 15-20 premium.

A) It's on 8th St (very commercial).
B) Which 1 BR has a setback terrace in that building?

No set back terraces but many large balconies. Location better than being on 7th Avenue in my opinion. Building is way-way better that inside of a toilet looking white tile building. Also 60 east 8th has 9 foot ceilings.

Do not forget pool, condo like rules and very nice set back podium.

It's extremely easy to compare building prices based on the sale of 15E which clearly shows 175 West 13th St selling at $/SF premium to 60 East 8th St.

I'd rather live on 7th ave than on 8th & Broadway. That area is too NYU . I have decided to just wait and see on 17. If the street easy price for 15E includes transfer tax (and mansion tax?), as someone mentioned above, then the actual "sale price" is pretty low, which make 17E seem even crazier at 1.4. Thanks for helping me with decision, everyone. The search continues

The price is what the buyer paid. You're bending over backwards to try and value an apartment for a lower amount by saying "the actual price was less". The actual price was the actual price.

Or---perhaps the buyer paid a premium for "no board approval" on the sponsor owned apartment? I guess we'll never know. I wasn't willing to pay the extra tax for that apartment just to bypass the board

And you don't have to. But "market" is what some buyer is willing to pay. And it's pretty clear what some buyer was willing to pay on 15E, because some buyer paid it. And on 17E you don't get a discount because you don't care about a setback terraces. The market puts a rather hefty value on setback terraces. You get to choose not to buy any apartment with a setback terrace because you feel the premium for them is too high. But you don't get to buy any apartment which has any feature which the market puts a premium on without paying the premium simply because you say that feature doesn't matter to you.
I have told buyers for decades to find an apartment which has as many of the features which matter to you and as few of the features which don't matter to you, because you pay for all the features whether they matter to you or not.
This is also why I think a lot of these buildings with a lot of stupid amenities are going to pay the price as their tax abatements expire because the amenities are going to cost the building as well as increase the unit's taxes and in tough markets that is going to make it harder to sell and further depress prices.

https://streeteasy.com/blog/nyc-tax-abatements-expiring/

Hi. I'm new to StreetEasy and love the forum. I'm about to buy an apartment and really appreciated the back and forth: it was quite an education. Do the "white brick" buildings have as good soundproofing qualities as the older "pre-war" buildings? It would seem the prewars would have thicker walls, but a colleague reminded me that in the 20s and 30s, there weren't as many televisions (probably none?), boom boxes or other noise producing electronics so perhaps there wasn't the need for thicker walls. I apologize if that sounds lame, but I personally would love to have a smaller bedroom if I could have a setback terrace, even if it were small. There are many more, it seems, in white brick buildings than in prewars. Am I correct?

Thanks for any input.

I can tell you in my old building (20's Emory Roth) the walls were 6" hollow terra cotta "fireproof". One I am in now is '60's white brick wonder 4" thick cinderblock and I can hear my neighbor sneeze. Old building I could not hear neighbor's telephone conversation for example.

Some of the 60s buildings has 3 inch lathe with plaster which is problematic not only for sound but also for electrical wiring. Sound problem can be easily addressed by adding one more layer of sound resistant drywall on walls separating you from the neighbors. Prewar walls indeed provide better protection for sound.

Some buildings were solidly built, some not so much. I'm in an UES 1964 'white brick' (though it's not actually white) which has heavy plaster and lots of poured concrete, and don't hear much of anything from the neighbor who shares the largest wall, unless he's really got the games console turned up. I use my hall walk-in-closet as an office cube, and the separating wall is clearly thinner there -- I think the neighbor is doing the same, and hear more when I'm there, than in the living room.

It also helps that the overall layout of the building is good: bedrooms back up to bedrooms, kitchens & baths to the same, living rooms to living rooms, so I'm less likely to be kept up by the night owls.

Thanks all for your comments. Greatly appreciated. And to Stache: the building I'm attempting to buy into is an Emory Roth in Chelsea. I wonder if it's the one you lived in. This one is on 23rd and 8th Avenue. It's a small studio but with a lovely view. The building appears to be as solid as a fort. I knocked on the common wall that separates my living room from the kitchen and dining area in the apartment next door, and it felt like solid concrete. Seems like an exciting area to live in, especially for one like me looking to explore this great city, and the subway is literally under the building!!!!!

Dave my previous building was a rental. Go to the doorman on 23rd ask to speak to the super, he should know about wall construction.

We've sold a bunch in 300 West 23rd. I represented Lincoln Savings who took back a package of unsold shares. One of the guys in my office had 3 apartments combined and was on the board there. Generally the noise side to side adjacent apartments is fairly well isolated. Unless someone has done construction and left sound windows.

Thanks again to you all. Since you're knowledgeable about specific buildings, could anyone give pros and cons of 300 west 23rd versus 200 west 20th, versus 161 west 16th? All 3 have really lovely studios with features usually found in larger apartments. 161 seems quite expensive for a studio and the highest maintenance of the 3, albeit with gorgeous views and the possibility to create a separate bed alcove (one even with a window); however, it's close to Greenwich Village and a stroll to the Farmer's Market (I love to cook so I'd really take advantage of this). Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I don't know if it's acceptable in this forum to ask for a good realtor: if so, that would be very helpful as well. If not, I apologize for asking.

*stampede* ; P

Dave, Just add the links to specific apartments and your estimate of their square footage.

This is really right up the alley of 30_years (who I used to work with and respect greatly) but since you're asking for cons of specific apartments, you might want to go off this thread.

ali r.
upstairs realty

Thank you all for your comments. -

30yrs_RE_20_in_REO: could you perhaps text me your email address to 561-306-2400? I would like to ask you if you know of any cove studio apartments for sale Lennox/UES $450k that meet your criteria. Thks. Peter

Ah, price cut to $1.15 below my estimate of $1.17mm.

$750k a fair price

750 gets you an alcove, maybe.

300, this will go sub 1m in this market.

I think this is more of an indication of how bad the overall market is rather than the relative value of this unit to others.

30yrs, I agree - the market seems very bad. lots of badness.