11 Hoyt vs Brooklyn point

I purchased at Brooklyn Point mostly due to the 25 year tax abatement and the location. I also really love the apartment that I purchased. In my opinion, real estate taxes are only going to go up, so the tax abatement is key, especially since it is not deductible anymore with the new tax laws (only $10,000 of state/local/property taxes combined is now deductible). I think it makes sense to pay more for a unit here if you are planning to live there for awhile to take advantage of the tax abatement or rent it out.

The building also has a great location being right on top of City Point and next to a park. So many subway lines, and bars/restaurants/movie theater right downstairs.

1) Agreed, definitely tax abatement is a nice thing to have and with current cap of 10k on SALT makes it a good deal. But also remember the new tax laws automatically expires in 2025 and things defaults to older tax codes for SALT. Well also elections around the corner, things could change.

2) Some amount of overpaying is ok I guess factoring in the tax abatement. But their prices seems to be extremely aggressive for this neighborhood at this point, imho.

If you buy at 11 Hoyt you actually own Real Estate.

@30yrs true,

I went to take a tour of the BP yesterday, the finishings are really nice & beautiful, good layouts but all the 2 bedrooms felt kind of smallish (actual live-able sq ft feels like more around 950 range).

Their sales office only answer for everything is 25 yrs tax abatement.
1) Why are units priced over 2000 per sqft in downtown brooklyn? Oh we have 25 yrs tax abatement.
2) There are no public elementary/middle schools around? A school might come up in future but we have 25 yrs tax abatement.
3) The units are kind of smallish for the claimed sq footage? Oh that's standard practice but we have 25 yrs tax abatement.
4) Why are you trying to charge prime Manhattan/Brooklyn heights prices on Flatbush ave ext, when there are no comps to suggest at even 2% ROE? Oh we have 25 yrs tax abatement.
5) It is technically still a co-op and a lease-hold, so why such high prices? Oh we have 25 yrs tax abatement (well, this is the only answer that makes sense because of the deal structure, imho)

The sponsors seem to be saying whatever money you might save in future tax abatement, please over-pay us 30% on the price now. I have no idea why would anyone would pay Park Ave rates in Downtown Brooklyn? Am I missing something here?

Buy tax-abated buildings at your own risk. The value of the abatement is fully captured by the developer, not by you. Resale in 10 years when taxes start adjusting back to normal may not be so easy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/06/realestate/the-taxman-cometh-for-some-condos.html

There are definitely units that are $2,000 or more a square foot.  There are also units that are much more moderately priced.  There are two bedroom units in the building for around $1,500 psf.  Virtually every new development lists total square footage, as measured from the exterior walls, and always notes that livable square footage is less.  
Of course, the $2,000 psf units are on the higher floors, and include unobstructed views of Manhattan, so there is also a premium for what you are looking at.  

If you are looking at 2 bedroom apartments, for comparison's sake, a 2 bedroom apartment at 388 Bridge Street is asking $1,366 psf, a 2 bedroom at Brooklyn Grove is asking $1,206 psf, and a unit at the Oro is asking $1,270 psf.  These buildings are nearby, and either have abatements that are about to expire, or no tax abatement at all.  Talk about a complicated ownership structure, the 388 Bridge Street condos are the minority component in their building to the rental units, and they will never get control of their board.  So, paying $1,500 a square foot with a 25 year tax abatement with the finishes and amenities package directly on top of a subway station with a mall, food hall, restaurants, etc directly underneath you maybe isn't a steal, but it also isn't too far off.  

BTW the tax abatement is a full 20 years of no taxes.  The taxes start to normalize in the final five years of their particular abatement.  

@BkIndent
Essentially my point, 388 bridge had completely overpriced the apartments to begin with (similar to what BP is doing now) which led to lack of sales and eventually, not enough condo owners to get control of the board. I don't see one condo sale where the few unfortunate owners have made profit or even break-even buying at the overly inflated sale prices because of tax abatement in 2015. There is a risk of similar situation happening with BP (of-course your counter argument might be, that is a risk in every new dev, true but the risk is very high in this case)

Since you mentioned views, most of the condos in 388 bridge, Toren and Oro have very nice unobstructed views in the current 1200-1330 ppsf range, Again these are only asks, don't see too many buyers for this price in today's market.

Essentially market will learn from past mistakes and correct them. Which is why, I think the sales are kind of lagging here compared to rest. Tax abatement should be a sweetener, not the only and main driver of the deal imho. As George noted as well, this is going to artificially inflate the markets and that's not a good sign for an healthy market and even more riskier especially in these times of downward trend.

prp,
They don't just include the exterior walls, but also your pro rata share of the square footage of common elements. So the more "amenity" space there is the more of your quoted square footage isn't actually in your unit.

Also, it would seem a higher percentage of the common interest in the Condo at Brooklyn Point is allocated to the Residential Unit than should be - shifting operating costs away from the Commercial Unit.

@30yrs, As BkIndent pointed out before as well it's probably fairly common practice among the Condo developers across the board. Are you saying they are overdoing it than the usual?

Does that mean there is a potential for 5 to 6% increase in common costs when commercial unit goes active or is that already factored in the current common charges?

My perspective was, it looked like a decent medium sized living room and medium sized bedrooms. So it needs to be priced accordingly for the space, location, neighborhood and current market.

In all condos you have to watch out for a first or second year bump because sponsors tend to estimate Schedule B low.

@prp, again it is 30yrs' common theme to spread misinformation about this building. There is no amenity common space square footage added to any unit's square footage. I am not even sure where he would have gotten something like that. If you look at page 79-80 of the offering plan, you can see how the developers determine the square footage of a unit. It is measured from the exterior walls of the unit, as is with all other developers of new construction buildings. There are statements everywhere including on the marketing floor plans that "total square footage exceeds livable square footage," so nothing new here.

In terms of the common charges, if you go to pages 119-120 of the offering plan, you can see that the common charges for maintenance of the building and common elements of the tower are already included. The common charges for the building are very low, and of course, everything goes up, just like your taxes if you buy in a building with no tax abatement. However, there is NOTHING that 30yrs can reference as to a reason why common charges would rise here more than the rate in any other building.

My point always is that there will always be people who like to make up things about certain buildings to fit their narrative. The important thing is to always be objective and to look at what is written in the offering plan, because that is the document that the sponsors and the buyers' attorneys are going to reference.

30 has had pretty good accuracy on these boards recently.

Sponsors also have a bad habit of underestimating common charges to sell units, and it's totally legal. I once owned in a building where the charges went up by 25% immediately upon residents gaining control of the Board, followed by multiple special assessments. You can imagine how that helped the sponsor sell the remaining units.

If the common charges in a new building look low, they are. Buyer beware. This is New York - people will screw you however they can, and then point to fine print on page 79-80 that says you were warned.

@BkIndent, those are fair enough points, thanks for the references. Probably not a huge difference.

Getting back to main point. Comparing apples to apples, lower floors in hoyt & grove are ranging from around 1200 on lower floors to 1600 on mid-higher floors for straight up condos.

Here, they are ranging from 1500 on lower floors to 2000 on mid-higher floors for a lease-hold Cond-op. Clearly you are paying 25% to 30% premium at the minimum to the developers. As others have pointed out before the buyers are not benefiting in any way from the abatement at all.

Your view seems like, its ok to very much overpay your money to the developers today for an potential future benefit even when there are multiple previous examples of this strategy being bad for the buyers. Case in point: we don't have to go too far, 388 Bridge.

My view is that, I don't think that's a fair enough amount of risk to take for buyers in the current risky markets, when rents are plunging across NYC and vacancy rates shooting up just for tax abatement. As I have noted before SALT tax cap expires in 2025, so tax benefits will be back on or even sooner based on election results.

@George, I am assuming even if it happens just because of the the massive number of units in these buildings, might hurt less because it can spread evenly more or less.

"However, there is NOTHING that 30yrs can reference as to a reason why common charges would rise here more than the rate in any other building."

Of course, that's not what I said, but the shill for the building has problems when it comes to facts because they keep changing for them. What I said was the Sponsor over allocated interest in the building to the Residential Unit to shift the cost burden of operating expenses away from themselves. Look at the "Development Unit" which is retaining all unused development rights (which would normally go along with the building). It certainly has some value, or they wouldn't be going through all that trouble to retain it. But what is it responsible for in terms of paying Common Charges and Real Estate Taxes? ZERO AND ZERO.

And the irony is that some time in the future it will get used to block the views someone in this building paid a premium for. Or maybe Extell will just extort them not to use their development rights and they can pay twice for those same views (just like they did on West 17th St).

@30yrs, again, if you looked into these things before writing things on here, you would see that the excess development rights amount to...

A grand total of 206.58 square feet... which is disclosed on page 705 of the offering plan.

I am the one who is actually providing you with facts... with actual citations from the offering plan. You are producing nothing but speculation and throwing out wild statements that you want to be true, but have no factual basis in what is actually in writing.

Anyway, I doubt that a 206.58 square foot building is going to go up to block anyone's view, and if you knew the neighborhood, you would know that the building is bordered by a park, and new construction that has recently been built. Maybe Extell could sell the 206.58 square feet to Long Island University across the street and they might be able to put up a tent on their rooftop?

Finally, I am not a shill for the building, I think that someone just has to point it out when someone says something factually incorrect. You are misleading people who are looking for real information. I would actually send you a copy of the offering plan so that you can educate yourself. Let me know.

Like in our previous argument where you "proved" it was a Land lease - which you have clearly now backtracked on?

And don't think it's going unnoticed all the hot air you're blowing to avoid answering about the split of payments between the units.

Folks, I think the topic of land-lease/lease-hold has been extensively discussed on the other thread. I request participants to try and stick to the current topic for the benefit of future readers.

What is the justification for BP pricing at 1500 to 2200 per sqft in downtown brooklyn?

@Bklndent, Would be good to hear, If there are any counter argument for the concerns or points I have made in some of my previous post.

Note that in a couple of years "9 Dekalb ave", the tallest building in Brooklyn is on its way next door also with potential 421a tax abatement and 450'ish luxury condos.

Just like you totally avoided the question about what suckers like you are doing who signed contracts a while back now that they have dropped prices.

My bad, think around 150 condos.

I also verified bkIndent's claim from the condo plan.

Base Development Rights Allocated Common Interest (Base/Total)
1) Retal Unit - 44,794.50 7.8% 44,794.50/573,793.42 = 7.8%
2) Residential - 528,998.92 92.1932% 528,998.92 /573,793.42 = 92.19%
Condop Unit
3) Development - 206.58 0.0001%
Rights Unit

What is the total square footage of the residential units?

1) Residential sq ft - 623,375 gross square feet = 90%
2) Retail sq ft - 68,830 gross square feet = 10%

So obviously that allocation has zero to do with actual buildable square footage.

Anyone speak with the developer on when closings and move ins will start?

Closings and move ins have already started. First closing happened about three weeks ago.

Bk, Did you close? Enjoy your new home!!

Thanks, but not yet! I am on one of the higher floors. Just received my closing notice. Closing in two months!

BKINDENT - any additional concessions added on post-contract signing in light of current market?

Hi , BKIndent, did you say that you compared BP with 11 Hoyt? Why choose BP over 11 Hoyt?
Thanks

I am not aware of any concessions on post contract signings.

@BKHopeful, I choose Brooklyn Point for the tax abatement, the better location, the amenities, and what I thought were the nicer and higher end finishes of the apartments.

Depending on what type of apartment you are looking for, similar price points per square foot can be found in both buildings. If you want to be on a higher floor, with a full Manhattan view, it will cost you a lot more. Many of the Brooklyn Point units have unobstructed views.

For a studio, compare 22G at Brooklyn Point (1,651 psf) to 25F at 11 Hoyt (1653 psf).

For a one bed, compare 21 H at Brooklyn Point (1,522 psf) to 21K at 11 Hoyt (1404psf).

For a two bed, compare 16E and BP (1496psf) to 19E at 11 Hoyt (1397psf).

In most cases, Brooklyn Point is the much better deal given that you get a 25 year tax abatement, and a better location. Of course, if you want the unobstructed Manhattan view, it will cost you more. 11 Hoyt does not have unobstructed Manhattan views.

Brooklyn Point does have nicer finishes, but there are some downsides too. Only ~40 storage units and they’re all sold through. Amenities at Hoyt is arguably better with the private park, coworking space.

Also you can find 2BR at hoyt at around 1300psf-1350psf.

There are definitely pros and cons for both, but I think the main pro of Brooklyn Point to me and to my friends who purchased there was the 25 year tax abatement. They also have great amenities, and there will be a full park right across the street. I think that with both developments having apartments with similar ppsf, the location and 25 years of tax savings really is a no brainer.

What/where is this park next to Brooklyn Point? I didn't know any park space was coming to Downtown BK. Green space is sorely needed as it becomes more residential.

Willoughby Square Park is getting built next to it.

Willoughby Square Park, which is directly across the street from Brooklyn Point.

FWIW they've been trying to build that park for over a decade, e.g.:

"After years of delays, the city is finally moving forward with building what officials have touted will be Downtown Brooklyn’s own version of Bryant Park."
https://nypost.com/2010/09/23/downtown-brooklyns-own-bryant-park-back-on-fast-track/

And that article is from *2010*. I hope it happens soon, but I wouldn't start making plans yet.

https://ny.curbed.com/2019/8/28/20835560/downtown-brooklyn-nyc-willoughby-square-park

I don't think BP is similarly priced to other new construction for the area especially in the 2BR and 3BR apts. In most cases its a new price point for the neighborhood. Another thing I observed is, the apartments in BP look comparatively small for the claimed on paper square footage of approx 1170 sqft and 1450 sqft. The finishings in BP looks nicer comparatively in imho.

11 Hoyt, 2BR starts from 1300 psf, BP from 1500 psf.
11 Hoyt, 3 BR starts from 1250 psf, BP from 1750 psf.

Forget about 11 Hoyt or Brooklyn point... As I've been saying for the last month the townhouse Market is pretty active in Brooklyn;

The Real Deal: Pricey Park Slope townhouses drive dealmaking in Brooklyn.
https://therealdeal.com/2020/09/09/pricey-park-slope-townhouses-drive-dealmaking-in-brooklyn/

I think that the two developments just offer completely different apartments for the price points. You can't really compare the cheapest apartments in each development because:

In Brooklyn Point, the 3 bedroom apartments start at the 41st floor, are all corner units, and have unobstructed views of the Manhattan Skyline and Brooklyn. 11 Hoyt 3 bedroom apartments start on the 7th floor looking at a wall, so there of course is a huge differential in the starting ppsf there.

The Two bedroom units start on the 15th floor and are all either corner units or have unobstructed Manhattan views, so there is also a difference in the type of apartment you are getting.

The other thing is that a lot of the other new construction in the area, which are basically 11 Hoyt and 10 Nevins, don't have any tax abatement, so Brooklyn Point units are going to be at a premium for that reason, along with the location.

Great article @theburkhardtgroup! Would love to own a house in Brooklyn!

Early on we were successful with a couple of townhouse deals. Now it's gotten extremely competitive on many of the homes, those looking for 'covid' discounts aren't finding many.

Hopefully the entirety of the Brooklyn market isn't dependent on just 13 deals.

It's been fairly well shown that the depreciating "asset" of a tax abatement only benefits the developer (one of many articles, use Google to find others: https://streeteasy.com/blog/nyc-tax-abatements-expiring/ )

Certainly it's a very difficult Market for many, however townhouses and large homes with outdoor space have been a bit of a bright spot for those looking for the proverbial silver lining. However 15 contracts last week, not too shabby.

We unsuccessfully participated in two best and highest on Brooklyn townhomes this week. Bidding on a couple homes in Bed Stuy, much quieter.

I think the prime Brooklyn neighborhood townhouse market is the beneficiary of both the woes of the Manhattan market as well as how much more socially acceptable buying in Brooklyn has become with those who can afford these houses. I think a whole bunch of celebrities buying houses in Brooklyn certainly didn't hurt.

@BkIndent, I don't think there is any unobstructed view of manhattan from 41D, the cheapest 3BR. It's more like a small glimpse of parts of manhattan obstructed by Chase building, Toren, Oro and few others. At 1750 psf for this small glimpse, I would rather live in Manhattan, Lol.

The approx views are in the pictures section: https://streeteasy.com/building/brooklyn-point/41d

There was certainly a time when the clients we worked with who were looking in Brooklyn did so because they could not afford Manhattan, that time has long past. Brooklyn has been hot for at least 10 years, a place people choose to live for it's great neighborhoods, space, relative quiet, compared to much of Manhattan.

@prp what is the view of the least expensive 3 bed at 11 Hoyt on the 7th floor? I don't think there really is any comparison.

I think it would be difficult to find a Manhattan 3 bedroom apartment with a view like that in a new construction for 1750 a square foot. Especially given the tax abatement.

@BkIndent, I am not really sales person for 11 Hoyt. So no idea about individual apartment views of 11 Hoyt. My guess is that it's some kind of private park view possibly.

I have lived in Manhattan all my life and currently live around Downtown Brooklyn. I know the neighborhood decently well. My point being 11 hoyt is overpriced as well and BP is taking it up even further. As you already noted, you are overpaying an premium on the price, which you are ok with for the tax abatement. Congratulations on your new home.

BP has the great RE Tax abatement, but the value of that will likely diminish a bit when the current tax legislation expires, not to mention that it's very much priced into the price per square foot.

I much prefered the design and amenities at 11 Hoyt, thinking the building had a classier look (the Mondrian motif at BP was honestly a bit overdone). The materials at BP perhaps are more expensive (e.g., the floors and wall tiles are marble, whereas at 11 Hoyt the floors are marble and the wall tiles glazed ceramic), but that mattered less to me than the overall design aesthetic and the layout of the units, as well as the amenities. 11 Hoyt is more understated

People rarely think about - but should - 5 or 10 or 15 years down the road when you are going to want to sell your unit, how "too 2020" is it going to look? From finishes to layouts to fenestration, there's a good chance that whatever is cutting edge today could fall out of fashion in the future.

Take a look at some properties which were developed in the first decade of this century. One example for me is 100 11th Ave.

Also note that both of these are overstating their sqft numbers(which I guess seems to be case across the board) But anyway, Imho at 11 Hoyt, it was around 10%, in BP it was around 20% was my feeling. So technically making the ppsf number look lower by those values respectively.

prp,
What is the square footage of the common/amenity space in each project?

20% was your "feeling?" But 10% was your "feeling" for 11 Hoyt? Ummm.... okay.

Anyway, like in any new development or unit that one were to buy, you are given the Floorplan with the methodology for determining square footage. People look at these things with their attorneys and real estate reps to decide what they want to buy. It is not a secret or something the developer won't disclose. All of the information is right in the offering plans of the units.

@30yrs.
From their description pages:

11 Hoyt: offers studio to four-bedroom condominium residences anchored by more than 55,000 square feet of exclusive indoor and outdoor amenities.

BP: This 720-foot-tall tower features over 40,000 square feet of indoor and outdoor amenities

@BkIndent, When sponsors all across are mis-representing their sq-footage by adding some external wall etc into calculations. One has to go by the feeling of how large or small the apartment looks in terms of livable space.

One thing I have learned from this experience is that, I would never think about buying just by looking at floor plans.

By the way, Have you got a tour of your apartment yet?

prp,
Another question:
Add up the square footage of each individual unit and compare the total with the total square footage allocated to "the residential unit" in the Offering Plan.

@prp, with Brooklyn Point, you don't have to buy off of the floor plans here. Everyone interested in a unit there can go to see the actual model units in the line, or to the actual apartments themselves if they are close to being completed. No one is buying these residences from the floor plans now.

People can go to Brooklyn Point, and if you like the unit, and you can afford it, you can buy it. If not, you don't. To each his own.

I did have a tour of my unit, and the floor plan was exactly what was shown in the offering plan, so no surprises there.

I'm surprised no one referenced this yet but one fact to consider is the private motorcourt at 11 Hoyt. If you've ever had to double-park your car to unload/load stuff you'll know how much of a pain it is. Especially getting kids into the car. BP doesn't have parking at all so maybe this isn't an issue. I think 11H has less than 100 spaces but it certainly was an important amenity for us in making the decision.

They also pitched us pretty hard on the property tax abatement when we toured BP but as other comments have noted, that's helpful for cashflow but really illusory in terms of value.

Finally I would argue if you know the area well you'll know that 11H is a better location. I actually prefer the Brooklyn view. More expansive and interesting, especially with the bridge in the background. Between 1WSQ and 141 Willoughby, a lot of views at BP are going to be obstructed. Plus you're on a very busy intersection whereas 11H is basically a block off Boerum Hill. Just my two cents!

@DTBK...Right, I think they are trying to capture different markets. I belive BP is trying to capture the foreign buyers market or investors market more so than the owner occupancy. With more of rental occupation, parking is probably not a huge concern because most of them will be using uber/lyft/taxi.

11 Hoyt is probably trying to capture more of an owner occupancy market, where parking/private motor courts seems more alluring.

@ prp -- you are right about the target markets. BP did tons of marketing to the Chinese international buyers market, and 11 Hoyt did just a little...

The flashier style of BP also appeals to that international buyer, versus the more understated style and the proximity to old Brooklyn that 11 Hoyt has.

@BKDJ....Oh ok, Not surprised. Well now that entire foreign investor market has dried up. And rental rates plunging all across NYC. Wonder how all these new constructions are going to make any sales at these crazy prices.

We see how well that worked out for Extell at 1 Manhattan Sq. And I think trying to sell the deal structure is hard enough to NYers who are familiar with Coops. I wonder how much they are spending on SEO to fool Google bots into calling it a Condominium?

I'm seeing lots of Street Easy alerts for rentals at Brooklyn Point.

@30yrs.. Hows it possible to fool the investors into calling it condo. I am assuming these guys have really good estate lawyers, who will see through these kind of things easily right?

I think the lack of sales might answer that. How many sales were actually made in that big push to attract Asian buyers and investors? How many sales/contracts total so far?

Well I don't know the actual sales numbers in either because these guys seem to be very secretive about it.
1) BP said they will not give out sales numbers since its standard across new devs. Which basically means they are so bad that they don't want to be embarrassed.
2) 11 Hoyt: Didn't give any numbers either but they keep claiming, they are the best selling condo in NYC right now repeatedly. That's is very misleading as well because, when no one is selling and you signed a few contracts. Technically you can call yourself best selling in comparison but in reality its a whole different story.

Yes when sales are good they sing the actual numbers from the rooftops, especially at "milestones" like century marks, 50%, etc

Anyone who buys in these projects is going to have a lot of competition for quite a while, especially from those who they bought from. In a couple of years why are these going to be better than used apartments at, say, 388 Bridge St or similar?

Good points especially with the different target markets. I've been watching 11H more because we bought there and if you look at the contract sales, we're now at 187. At the start of the year it was like 120. So things have definitely slowed down a lot this year with the pandemic. Not sure about 388 Bridge street but take your point. There will be more competition going forward. That is a given. My hope is we can drive more commercial tenants to DTBK. There are so many smaller organizations (advertising studios, internet companies, architects) that are paying through the roof for commercial lofts in SoHo, etc. that would make great tenants in places like 1WSQ.

And don't forget 9 DeKalb is coming still.

(and yes I know the current spin is it's a rental)

can anyone else who's purchased or toured 11 Hoyt & Brooklyn point offer their perspective on which they liked better?

I purchased at 11 Hoyt, but I haven't closed yet. I was drawn by the look and the amenities. I like the feeling of walking into the motor court and having the elevated park. Brooklyn Point is not a bad option, but I ultimately passed for reasons like: the price, not feeling like I want to decipher a "condop", some finishes that I didn't really like as much, and then it started to look like a high end office tower for me.

Am really grateful to all the Brooklyn Point discussions here, I learnt so much! Think I should pay back the community by sharing some info I have:

My attorney has done transactions in both buildings: In BP most of her clients are young mid-class couples who bought with a mortgage, while in 11 Hoyt it's been a lot of Chinese cash buyers seeking oversea investments. She is Chinese so the majority of her clients are Chinese. You can interpret it whatever way you want, personally I am indifferent. I did find it counter-intuitive originally since BP seems to be marketing to a more luxury-seeking demographic, but at a second thought it could be explained that BP buyers are buying their primary residence so comfort comes first, while investment buyers in 11 Hoyt don't care that much.

I was very close to buying in 11 Hoyt but eventually didn't due to funding and other reasons, now I am contract reviewing a BP unit. 11 Hoyt's design aesthetic and amenities make a lot more sense to me, the location is arguably better, too, however I didn't like most of the mid-size unit layouts and exposures, plus the dark color scheme is unattractive to me, I felt my options are really limited. My biggest issue with BP is that their biggest selling point, the rooftop pool, only opens seasonally, and consider NYC climate you are paying a premium for something you only get to use during optimistically 1/4 time of the year.

I never toured any completed units in 11 Hoyt, I did in BP and the construction quality is impressive (compared to some other self-claimed luxury buildings in BK), there's def. some thoughts put into the kitchen storage design, too. I am banking a lot on these subtle qualities plus Extell's reputation.

Obviously the news of the all-man homeless shelter to be opened at 1 Hoyt is concerning, would love to hear more perspectives on that.