Powerhouse Condo Not Selling Well!! Financial Difficulties Arise

it's 27 rentals and no they are not included in the 50 that closed. prices are about 20% lower in that building versus 2007 levels. for the most part, they have not yet lowered their asking prices to a market-clearing level.a couple of apartments have even had up to 25% cumulative price declines since originally being listed. yet to see if that's enough of a price drop to entice buyers.

they dont have to lower their prices.

i guess you can go one of two ways, keep your prices static a la powerhouse - with the knowledge that offers will come in 30% lower... or you can lower your prices by 20% a la 5sl, and maybe see offers come in 10% below that... i think you'll generally end up at the same price. apts will clear where they clear

what will hurt is that powerhouse has turned off a large group of potential buyers who want to see the initial 20% bump.. but didnt, and had moved on to other, more recently priced (ie. more realistically-price) developments.. its interesting to note that with 5sl and the view, its the large developers that's pre-empting the everyone else with deep cuts. im sure if you got the marketing folks at ohp, powerhouse, or lhaus to speak candidly- they'd wish the developers would let them cut 20%...

anyone know the margins on a new development? what is hte breakeven for a developer after land, construction, marketing, and financing? 20%? 30%?

btw new fha rules say no one owner can have more than 10% of units - so the sponsor can never rent more than 17 themselves...

jason: how do FHA rules bind the owner from doing whatever the hell they want with their units? More likely it just means no one will be able to sell to anyone who needs an FHA mortgage to buy.

The rentals are from the sponsor! That is why they have not shown up on acris. They are also offering rent to own now... only the sponsor will offer such a scheme. Most of the rental/rent to own units are being handled exclusively by one firm. Almost all the units handled by that firm are from the sponsor.

yes i think Lgeorge is right i checked with a friend of mine in LIC he is saying the rentals are from the developer because it is actually 40 units to rent now. the first 20 or 25 are from an investor which is included in the 40 sold apartment 9to become a condo.) now the power house itself is renting some units and splitting rentals between 2 firms not one to hide the fact that they are renting.
All this means problems and yet the developer keeping his price high and rejecting offers from 500 to 600 per sf. i believe the price will go down this summer of by end of summer.

"how do FHA rules bind the owner from doing whatever the hell they want with their units?"

They can do whatever they want, but it will very hard to get a loan, because even private lenders are following this same cue from the FHA, and of course as you say FHA borrowers can't buy here.

Mike 77, do you know someone who has actually made an offer in the 500-600 sq/ft range and been rejected? How recently was that?

jason: since it seems like they have already punted on selling, I don't think they care anymore about anyone's ability to get loans.

We recently signed a rental contract with an option to buy. The leasing company had the same address as the developer. There is no doubt the developer is the leasing company. We were also told our units will not having the Viking appliances in the kitchen, it will be some cheaper brand. Given the amount of money we're saving, the lower quality appliances doesn't really bother us.

interesting.

Ah, so not only are the sponsor renting out units, now they're cheapening the building by putting in lower appliances for rentals? Will they upgrade the appliances if the renter decide to buy? How much money can they really save with cheaper appliances? This is like a canary in the coal mine moment. If the sponsor would go through all the trouble of swaping out appliances to save some pocket change, what does that say about their current financial situation?

this building is doomed. what a joke. they have had the most incompetent people running sales for the past year. no confidence in their ability to move units.

We moved into the powerhouse. The fear about cheaper appliances for rentals are overblown. We got double door frigidaire stainless steel fridge. The frigidaire is really nice and its a lot nicer than what you would get at other rentals. Overall the apartment is very nice but we have one very big problem. When we moved in, we saw what looked like mouse dropping on the floor. We thought it was just dirt and didn't think much of it. Yesterday, my wife saw two mice zoom across the living room towards the kitchen area. She screamed and was freaked out. I looked along the wall and couldn't find where they came from or where they went. We don't want to have any poison or traps which can result in dead rodents in our apartment. Are there any good alternative? I will contact the leasing agent today.

Poisin is stop gap. What you need to demand the leasing office do is get someone to put steel wool and glue (or caulk) in every hole bigger than a dime coming in the building. This is new constriction 1 - I cannot beleive they did not do this. I BET this happened when they replaced the appliances. Anyway, until they do this, you will have mice forever.

jm...please join the powerhouse group...

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/powerhouselic/

They don't actually "replace the appliances". The apartments being shown to potential renters don't have any appliances in yet, I think they only finish them up once people lease or buy.

Well in any event make sure every hole coming in the apt has steel wool in it. I insist any apt I move into be de-moused before moving in. Its much easier to do when its empty then when its furnished.

@mwade
yes the offers were 550 they laughed at him a month ago then they sold units at 580 per sf and now they are negotiating around the 560 or 570 per sf last week they again rejected his offer so it shows they want the 600 which is over paying the current market price of pr sf in lic.

@beam the appliances are supposed to be viking and now they replaced all of them not specially physically as appliances are not in yet but they will not follow what they plan to do or show people in the past. they give you cheap stuff because the market is going down.but yet if this is only for renters thats fine but buyers should get what they were told.

with so many rentals units in the powerhouse the value of the building is going to go down even lower. price should be around 500 per sf for now but the developer does not see it that way he believes he has the best building in LIC and that the economy and real estate is doing super well lol. if only they would see the light they would see the buyers and stop the loss.

The frigidaire refrigerator in our apartment is actually quite nice. It may not be as expensive as the vikings for owners, but in terms of utility, it functions quite well.

Jason, thanks for the advice. Will follow up with building management. We really want this rodents problem addressed ASAP.

Today's mice are way too smart to eat poison or get caught in traps.... Rats will eat anything and will die.
Only way to get rid of mice is to seal up all the holes....look behind the stove/fridge/sink same in bathroom...don't forget the BX electrical cable they love to climb it and wiggle thru the opening if not completely sealed........

Hey how did they get so smart.....Darwinism? Rent with the option to own is they way most of these developers will do. They'll reduce prices about 20% in a year and get some suckers to buy before they are finally forced into a fire sale. When I stole my unit at 60-70% off back in 92 a couple of unit owners who brought pre-construction were furious after they cornered me to ask at what I paid.

Don't some condo developements have rules that say discounts must be given to all buyers if prices go down? I don't think this building does, but isn't this a fairly common cluase?

McHale is exactly right. All these rent to own are just gimmicks delaying the inevitability of fire sale at this building. The Powerhouse is following the same pattern as Toll Brother's Northside Piers in Williamsburgh. Last fall, Toll Brother offered rent to own. Then came interest rate buy downs. Then came free upgrades. Finally Toll Brothers dropped prices by up to 30% earlier this year. Powerhouse is just a little behind the curve. So far, only about 40 units out of 177 units in the Powerhouse have closed. The carry cost of over 100 empty units must be a very heavy burden for the builder. This is why they're trying to squeeze out even small costs such as use cheaper appliances for renters. All of these moves are just temporary stop gap measures. Eventually, their bank will call the loan and the developer will resort to fire sales or face default. This is a problem not exclusive to the powerhouse. Any large development with significant unsold inventory faces the same problem. This is why everyone should avoid buying in all buildings with huge unsold inventory. It doesn't pay to be a hero.

Also, haven't come across any information on CGS Developers (the guys behind the powerhouse) so not sure what their financial status is. Anyone know anything about them or their finances? I could get no transparency on their financial situation - the sales staff basically dodged the question.

Unit 1109 recently closed (on ACRIS). final sale price was $981k, down from the contract price of $1.3mm. represents a 25% reduction in sale price. seems the developer is very willing to do whatever possible to bring folks to the closing table. there are a few other examples of renegotiations in the 25% range.

some lower floor units closed at $510-515 psf. $400s psf here we come

My understanding of 1109 was that it was an all cash deal. nice unit and great price. nick26, sounds like you may have already entered contract with PH or looking to buy into PH. is that why you are here begging people to lowball PH with you :-)

PH is so screwed. New conforming loans require independent appraisers. Lenders can no longer use their own appraisers. Independent appraisers will use the latest contract closing price to determine appraisal value. 1109 will act as a led weight on the appraiser value of rest of the units in the Powerhouse. Appraisers won't care if they are cash deal or not, nor should they. It is a fair transaction price. New future high floor appraiser values will come in the $600s psf and low floors will be in the low $500s.

The impact of new conforming requiremnt can be said about every new construction in NY, the difference here is Powerhouse is able to move units (at a discount); the building is unique and is doing well enough that the bank has approved the second stage of the project: a rental builiding/garage on the east side PH.

HWY = broker

We were told by the sells office the garage will be built but the rentals buildings are on hold. Are there any new developments?

After a few weeks of living in the Powerhouse, here are my thoughts.

Likes: The staff is very friendly. The live in super will address most of the problems you have in a very timely manner. The view from the roof deck is amazing. You get a panaromic view of midtown manhattan (althrough i was told we won't be able to see fireworks this year because it will be moved to Hudson side of Manhattan).

Dislikes: Wall between units are extremely thin. I can hear my neighbor talking on the phone and watching TV at night through the wall. I also hear footsteps from the unit above me. This is very annoying when you want to sleep. The window only opens out and does not have any screens. There doesn't seem to be any screens you can buy for the window at home depot either. If I leave my window open, I tend to get flies in the unit very quickly.

That's it for now.

not exactly a ringing endorsement there JM11106

There are good and bad things about every building. I'm just pointing out my observations. People an make up their own mind.

JM11106,
What floor are you on?

Ericho75: I'm on the 5th Floor.

I live in PH and really enjoy the place.

Nick26= thrifty Powerhouse lover

Good luck lowballing:)

what are the powerhouse pluses and minuses for you HWY?

pros: friendly staff, gym is never crowded (yet), great super, amazing roofdeck (though sadly no fireworks this year), quick walk to subway, 10 minutes to midtown (where my i work), 20 minutes to soho (where my wife works), amazing south view from my apartment (even when they build, i'll have significant sky and light because of the lirr and distance separating us from those future buildings, great closet space, fantastic neighborhood that is definitely growing but has enought to keep us satisfied for now, unexpectedly large window sill which makes great seating (still need to get cushions), if you buy...punchlist team is great and gets things done...just ask, for renters, you are getting a great rental product even with the lower end appliances, which are still higher end than a lot in manhattan

cons: thin walls (though i'm lucky because it has not been an issue for us), bike room, business center, screening room are not ready yet (don't care about the spa honestly), kitchen cabinet quality (white ones) is not the greatest (looks decent but feels cheap), need to find custoized window screens to keep those bugs out, wish the heating units could be a bit smaller, when the 7 train is not working (only happened once in the past two months and it was not a bad walk...10 minutes...to the E, V trains...but you really have to give yourself time in case it happens), as a buyer in the building, i wish there weren't so many units for rent

Thin walls for that kind of money? That is a deal breaker for me. I appreciate the honesty, folks. Hope you are all happy in you new home.

thanks LIC, helpful

I have been reading the comments. Thanks for everyone's opinion. I am thinking of buying a one bedroom and renting it out. I saw 801 and fell in love with the terrace, but someone was already living there and there are no more terraces left, so we are looking in the city, but because I like the powerhouse I want a one bedroom. What do you think? Is it worth it? Is the noise that bad??? Thanks

I was over there this past week and i was surprised by how well the quality of finishes were. I went to their model unit at 1001 and i can imagine how nice 801 is with the 1,000 square feet terrace facing Manhattan. The same view that you get in the roofdeck is probably what you get with 801; an absolute gem at 1.1 million if you ask me. I also saw some of the smoke stack units and they're also very nice. FYI, most of the high end units (terrace, penthouse, smokestacks) with views are moving very nicely. I heard units 1014 and 914 (manhanttan views) went into contracts recently along with the all cash deal at 1109. Over the past 2 months, over 18+ units have went into contracts and closings are happening every month, that's pretty good in this environment if you ask me.
In regards to the wall, i did a small test sample and didn't notice it. I had the door close in one of the bedrooms and asked my husband to speak loudly in the living room (was in a 2bed/2bath unit) and i could barely hear him. The walls looks to be insulated like all well build buildings..and i've seen in many.

Just my 2 cents...

One more note, in regards to pricing they are very negotiable and willing to make deals. Depending on where you are located, there's no reason why you should pay anything north of 630 dollar per square foot.

Good luck.

Ask about the rental units and do your own math. I have and it is clearly cheaper to rent At $3000-3500 instead of buying at $700k-1M. Just my opinion. And no risk involved. Why catch the falling knife. Also if things are selling so well why are there rental units in the first place?

Just my 2 cents.

dco,
So in order for you to buy, rent have to be MORE expensive than buying on a monthly basis?
Depending on which units she buy, Victoriasecretis can buy a 1 bedroom and on a monthly basis be the same as rent (after tax deductions). Over the course of 30 years, are you saying renting is still better even though the buyer will own his/her unit?

btw, not trying to pick a fight.
I know how these threads always end up. Just want to see where you coming from.

In- Do the math on the exact same unit. Asking rent Vs asking buy. Yes you get tax deduction but lets remember that they eventually get less and less over time. And yes rents do increase. But lets also keep in mind that so do common charges. We could be here all day and most have. For me, it's crystal clear. I rather pay $3500/month then $6000+ even with the deduction. Now here's the factor that no one ever talks about.

Its called RISK. It still amazes me how people forget to factor that into the equation. Even after this whole crisis people still don't understand or perceive risk involved in buying RE.

Oh also remember the advantage of keeping your down-payment money and investing it in something else. I like having the ability to have access to my money. RE doesn't give you that advantage.

I'm not saying buying RE is terrible. Just that it's terrible right now. When it become cheaper to buy then it's a great investment. Until then I'll sit this one out.

"Just that it's terrible right now. When it become cheaper to buy then it's a great investment. "
When was the last time it was cheaper to 'BUY' then 'RENT' in NYC?
I'm assuming you've been renting for over 2 decades.

Actually ericho I'm an owner. The last time it was cheaper to buy was bet. 92-01. That's when I decided to buy.

Wait, you're telling people to not buy when you couldn't even figure when to sell? Gosh..

I know someone in this building who was one of the first few people that closed. They tried to refinance their mortgage a few weeks ago due to the lower rate and their refinance application was denied because appraisal value came in below their mortgage amount. This building is so screwed.

It wasn't cheaper to buy, on a day-one basis, in the late 90s and 2000-2001. It very rarely would be cheaper to buy on day one because that doesn't make much sense.

It was often cheaper to buy a co-op than to rent an equivalent apt on the UWS in 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001.

Thanks for everyone's comments. When I went to the Powerhouse, I was just amazed at the amenities, but I am really thinking is it worth buying if the building is having financial problems. I want to buy something, keep it at least 5-10 years, then sell it...unless the area is booming and stores are coming, i will keep it. This is my first home purchase, so i want to make sure I am getting something right. I appreciate all the comments....still confused..

Victoriasecretis, real estate is all about location. This is always a good advice to follow. There are a lot of things good about LIC, but there are enough inconveniences in LIC for the area to always transact at a discount to the city: never able to get a cab to go to work in the morning, limited restaurant take out/delivery options, and you're at the mercey of the 7 Train. Everyone's priority is different. Some of those inconveniences may be unimportant to you, but they will likely be important enough to other people to always warrant the discount for the area. Coop in the city are now selling at $500-600 per sq foot. What's a fair price for LIC? $400-500? I don't know, you can be the judge for yourself.

Here's an example of a coop on 57th Street asking for $550psf:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/396726-coop-225-east-57th-street-sutton-place-new-york

As for Powerhouse, it maybe a decent physical building (taste varies). The problem is, they mishandled the initial sales of the building and now the building has a lot of financial uncertainies. About a third of the building is now rental. This is a huge detriment to owners. Buildings with big rental population typically have higher common charges over time. They also have much higher turnover which causes a slew of other problems. Do you really want to buy in a building with so many uncertainties and with renters living next door paying half what your mortgage is?

If you want to buy something for 5-10 years, there are a lot of much better options than the Powerhouse in the current market.

Actually, in LICC's defense, many of the buildings are close to several subway lines. While SOME are at the mercy of 7, some are also near the N,R,W,E, or E. Some are near three lines - something many people in prime Manhattan cannot say.

btw - those awesome views - not going to last. city approved hunters point plans last november.

love how their sales office overlooks that, and no one says a thing.

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/city-takes-control-of-hunters-point-south-land-empire-state-development-port-authority

Old news.
If your apartment is facing Manhattan, it's one of the first things the sales team mentions (new sale team is honest).
With the state of the financial markets and the city have financial troubles (look at MTA), there's talk of this project being pushed wayyyyy back. Those views might be good for another 10-15 years.

There is a lot of misinformation in goolsbee's comments. One think LIC is not lacking is restaurant take out/delivery. There are plenty of places of different types of food that you can order take out or get delivered. As for cabs, yes, if people plan to rely in hailing yellow cabs every day then LIC would not have that, but I don't think that is a big deal for most. For people who need a car service, there are plenty of good ones in the area and if you live in one of the condos you can just have the building's desk call one for you.
In general, apartments in Manhattan comparable to the ones in LIC are not even close to $500-600 psf. You can search for some uncommon exceptions, but if you look into them you will usually find reasons why that low-priced Manhattan apartment is as cheap as it is, whether it be high maintenance, the place needs a total renovation, etc.

Victoria, if you are interested in LIC, have you looked at other buildings? You seem to be focused only on Powerhouse.

In regards to car service, there are a few car service that is headquartered about 1 mile from LIC. You can have car service in 1 minute if you need it. The 7 train is one of the more reliable lines in all of NYC and if you work in midtown, it's ONLY one stop over from grand central. You can't say that if you live most of Manhattan.

Again, you won't be able to find new developments in Manhattan for 500-600 psf....period. Victoria, i recommend you take a look at 5SL too.

One more note.
The title of this threat is completely wrong.
The developers have no financial trouble. In a matter of fact, they are well capitalize to move follow and start work on the new building which is east of the powerhouse. Think people...think.

carolst - before you get in ppl's faces for not doing their homework, what exactly is your basis for saying they are well capitalized? because you were told that they were?

how about the fact that theyre already six months into closing but have only sold <40% of their units? or the fact that the space that was suppose to the new addition was just turned into a parking lot?

jraz000,
I don't know what your agenda is, but you are spreading false rumors.

The building to the east was planned as a parking space from day one. If you don't have the funding for it, how the heck can they move forward?
They are currently about 46% sold (closed & in contract).

CarolSt -

'I don't know what your agenda is"

none. i looked here, i moved on. what is your agenda?

the comments ive read are totally incongrugous to what ive been told (and not told by the salespeople) and from what is clear to anyone by simply from walking around the site. absolute best case, it is a giant construction zone for the next three years. worst case, it is boxed in on its meaningful exposures (north and west)

"The building to the east was planned as a parking space from day one."

you are clearly uninformed. the space to the NORTH of the building was suppose to be a separate rental tower, and is now a parking lot. it is paved, painted with concrete tire guards bolted to the ground. the space to the EAST of the building is a giant hole with no discernable activity.

"If you don't have the funding for it, how the heck can they move forward?"

Move forward with what? theyve clearly given up on the rental tower. there is zero activity on the east side of the building. and why would they build a parking structure when theyve just converted the entire north side into a parking lot.

"you are clearly uninformed. the space to the NORTH of the building was suppose to be a separate rental tower, and is now a parking lot. it is paved, painted with concrete tire guards bolted to the ground. the space to the EAST of the building is a giant hole with no discernable activity."

Are you stupid or plain dumb?
I said they are starting work on the building to the east first which is a parking lot and has slatted to be a parking lot from day one. The area in the north currently is a temporary parking area that the developer paved way so owners in the building can park until the East building is completed. Everyone knows the building to the North is a rental and was planned from day one too. They're going up in different phrases with the rental building being last. No one knows when the building in the north will go up, the people that owns or rent in the North won't complain.

"there is zero activity on the east side of the building"
Wrong again, they are starting on the work shortly. You can see the area is ready and equipment have started arriving over the past few weeks.

Ask the tenants who lived there right now. They continue to do work in the building. Most amenities are ready in use. As noted in previous post, all issues have been attended to in a timely fashion. This is hardly the work of a developer in financial trouble.

jraz000,
You are the classic type of poster that have no idea what's going on about the building and passing incorrect information. You should really consider paying the building a visit.

"paying" is the operative word :)

I have read all the comments, even more confused now...I have looked at Hunters Point and Crescent Club. Not sure about them, still looking into it. I also looked into East Coast, but they want these outragous prices.
I liked powerhouse because of the amenities.
I have looked into the city as well, but they maintenance is to expensive. With new development, I like the the tax abatement.

i'll say again that there is NOTHING going on on the east side of the building. anyone who wants to verify this is welcome to check it out themselves.

powerhouse has TRAIN WRECK written all over it, just like carolst has BROKER written all over him. i made you at "an absolute gem at 1.1 million if you ask me", followed the too close for comfort "Are you stupid or plain dumb?".

TRAIN WRECK?

That's funny. Over the past 8 weeks, they sold 18 units...that's more than 2 units per week. Hardly a train wreck if you ask me.

"an absolute gem at 1.1 million if you ask me"
That comment was made on a unit that recently closed. If you have no idea which unit it is..have a look

3bed/2 bath 1,650 square feet of space. 1,000 + square feet of terrace space. All with UNOBSTRUCTED VIEW OF MANHATTAN. This is one of the BEST AVAILABLE UNITS IN ALL OF LIC.

http://www.thepowerhouselic.com/pdfs/res801.pdf

The city plan on developing in the are in front of it, but the views will not be 100% taken away by it. If you've never been there, please refrain from saying ONE more word about it. Last, there's NO timeline on when the city will begin the work, there's currently speculation that the plan might be delayed for a very very long time or even changed. Don't believe me? Why not sent an email to the head of the hunter's point development.

Victoriasecretis,

Crescent Club is in the outskirts of LIC, i would recommend you looking in the queenswest area instead.

Green shoots are sprouting in LIC. Just ask CarolSt. I love the passion. Good Luck Carol.

Cool it people...COOL IT!!!!

Busy at work, so only got time for rapid fire answers...yes, i own a unit in the powerhouse.

I confirmed with sales office and work is starting on the East side (parking lot) of the building.
The area in the North is currently transformed into a temporary area for residence, the charge is 270 bucks per month. Personally, i hope they never built the North building and turn the North side into a low rise commerical area (store fronts, etc.).
Work continues to move forward in all areas of the building.
Sales have picked up since a new sales team have been put in place 2 months ago.

In all, love the building..love the area and the 'green shoot' all around. bang! bang! bang!

Oh yea..one more note.
I wake up at 8:25am this morning (sorry overslept)....jumped into the showers and out the door at 8:40am...

I ended up arriving in my office on 48th and 5th ave by 8:55am...DAAAANG!!!!

If i have to guess, 90% of all units in Manhattan are boxed in too.

i am assuming all owners/brokers were heartened by the sunday ny times "article" in the RE section. Just thought i'd post a similar article(one of several actually) that appeared in august 2007 with some of the same self-serving brokers offering the same bull crap. in hindsight that was probably the worst time to buy and anyone swallowing this latest kool aid deserves to be wrecked financially:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/19/realestate/19cov.html

the NY times is a great newspaper but it's RE section is a wholly owned subisidiary of the brokerage industry which spends millions each year in advertising dollars. not chump change for a company flirting with bankrupcy.

folks we have a long correction ahead of us. not going to be pretty.

"but it's RE section is a wholly owned subsidiary of the brokerage industry which spends millions each year in advertising dollars."

BS. Editorial and advertising are strictly seperate at the times as with all major papers. The NYT has run PLENTY of stories this year on the dismal state of the RE market in NYC - in fact they ran one TODAY on the woes of Trustafarians. You sir are guilty of selective memory.

Would you live here or on the Brooklyn Bridge Park?

Unit 1109 closed at $660 per sq foot a few weeks ago. The ink is not even dry yet and now 914 went into contract at $580 per sq foot. With each successive contract, price is getting lower and lower. Just connect the dots, it will tell you where price is going for this building. The high inventory and the high number of rental units has a huge negative impact on price for this building. The latest contract price for 914 just sets the new price ceiling for per sq foot.

The people who have bought early in this building are basically stuck and screwed. Look at streeteasy data, some of the high floor units sold for more than $800 per sq foot. Those same units are now less than $600 per sq foot. That's more than 25% decline. Their downpayment is already gone and they probably have negative equity. They can't refinance their units. They can't sell their units. Sure they're just paper losses for now, but isn't that what all the banks said before they went bankrupt? Imagine what happens if some of the people who have negative equity are forced to move due to job relocation or job loss? It doesn't really matter if the building is nice or not, the current mix of stuck owners, renters is a receipt for diaster. If you really like the building, wait a year and you will be able to buy units out of foreclosure for the Powerhouse.

Jason-nearly every bearish article on RE has appeared in other sections of the paper. The trustafarians article is in the local section and is very tongue-in-cheek. shillers article was in the back pages of the business section. there was one long piece in the sunday times magazine but it was about the hamptons. the only truly bearish article, actually the title, that appeared in the sunday RE section carried multiple refutations of the bear camp and alluded to the fact that the bears were somehow unbalanced. Yesterday's article was pure NY times. Barely a mention of the a bearish view.

Goolsbee,
How do you know 914 sold for 870K?

Any thoughts on how this might affect the Foundry next door? I'm thinking of buying there or the PH. (Victoriasecretis, did you consider the foundry? It's pretty nice.) Seems to me that the Foundry doesn't sell as well as the PH, but I'm not sure why.

vmh,
Here's my personal experience between the powerhouse and the foundry.

1) Total quality of craftsmanship and material from the powerhouse are far superior to the foundry.
2) Better overall amenities in the powerhouse
3) The powerhouse is a taller (11 story) establishment in comparison to 3 stories in the foundry. (Quality of light & views)
4) The Foundry is parked right next to the midtown tunnel filtration system. That filtration system also blocks MOST of the sunlight coming from the South.

Those are the few things i've noticed. In all, i can't find one thing that the foundry got that is better than the powerhouse. Again, these are my opinions.

Have you also checked out 5SL too?

victoriasecretis, you're looking to buy in PH but you're also in contract at the Alexander??

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/10631-the-alexander

CarolSt: Thanks very much for your thoughts. It's certainly true that PH is taller and the views are much more impressive. However, the light in F seemed good. To my (admittedly untrained) eyes F had better craftsmanship. (At least, I liked the way its apartments were put together.) Is the building not built as well as the PH? How does one find out this information?

goolsbee how do you know 914 sold for $870K... prices only go up in LIC.

For what it's worth, today I overheard the doorman telling another resident that the almost finished spa in the Powerhouse will be contracted to and run by somebody else, and that PH residents will have to pay for access. So don't believe the brokers when they tell you otherwise!

It has always been clearly stated on all their marketing materials that it is a full service spa being run by American Leisure. I assume the residents can use the sauna and hot tub free of charge but pay for any additional spa services (massage, etc.). I would be surprised if residents have to pay just for access.

More false rumors...Which broker told you that everything is free in the spa?

If you are a residence, all you have to do is take a stroll to the 10th floor sales office. If you are too lazy to do that, give them a call.
The use of spa facility is free, in many materials as lic11101 have stated. The 'goodies'...sorry, no happy ending will be charged.

I am talking about spa access, not services (which is why I said 'access' rather than 'services' in my post). Not assuming that spa services would be free of charge, of course.

The doorman mentioned paying for access - hopefully he was misinformed and this only applies for spa services.

It makes no sense why you would even make this post if you live there. It makes no sense at all. The answers are right there....

the powerhouse has def some financial issues
the parking and next building has not started when it is suppose to be almost done
most dev have issues anyway in this time

the view will be gone no matter if it is 2 years or 10 years so dont over pay for front apartment

the new team might be honest ha someone said but they still not that great. the past team were just full of it

if the spa has a fee then this is really bad for the owners. seems the dev is getting the spa, the parking run by third party go figure what else is going to happen. they are really trying to make some money which means a lot about their situation.

as said few weeks back the summer will show were we are but with interest rates going back up, wells fargo not giving loans at the powerhouse anymore, the price per sf should def go down the 500 to 550 range should come soon in negotiation only as they will never advertise such. do your homework, see what is around, 5sl just sold a unit a a low price, the view is now condo (well the view is a crazy place anyway) the foundry and others including the powerhouse have noise from train especially south side. the front of the powerhouse is not desirable and the construction or the halt on construction around it make it not pleasant and seems all this will be as such for the next few months if not at least a year. I think the powerhouse is a great buy but not higher than 550 per sf. also i did not mention anything about kitchen but as said above the kitchen appliances and cabinets are really cheap seems they went to ikea to get the cabinets.

@ carol and jraz
I have 6 friends in the building PH
parking was supposed to be 2 floor only and then garden on top of it, that is what was said to people buying in the back (west). they were lied parking will go much higher then on top of that a building will come. yet again this is a project that do not seem to come up. for the last 12 months they keep saying the construction is about to start seems it is going to be a mess for a while.
the other side (north) were the parking is now paved and used, i dont think it was made temporary for only 6 months, parking cost they paved it and gated it right now so they wont turned this down just for 10 tenants that parked there. seems carol you are pretty optimistic but from a business point of view it does not make much sense. to me seems the parking wont come for at least a year+ so they build this one on the land that was supposed to be a rental building which then seems wont be there for at least a year+.
so financial issues!? yes for sure. as sales team keep saying to potential buyer the developer is super super rich and have so much money he doesnt know what to do with it then you know what? what about building the parking and the rental building!? lol should make a lot of sense financially as the sales team and developer are keeping price up saying that sales are doing so well then parking and rental building should come up soon cause so many people are waiting on line to rent and park right!? lol and lot of of money is going to be made cause the economy is doing super well according to elliman and the PH.

about rentals
rentals they have so many rental units which also shows difficulty from the developer and not considering a shady rental from a supposedly third party investor that purchased a bunch of units cause him too is super rich and dont know what to do with his money. by law no one associated with the developer can purchase those units to help a building become a condo. but seems someone not a friend not an acquaintance but someone falling from the sky came and bought all those units then decided few months ago to rent them hmmm interesting, why not renting since day one was he planning to sale them but if he is so rich and financially savvy he bought them at a difficulty time, did he planned that the economy will take 6 months to recover? hmm interesting too. and why those units are not showing up anywhere in term of price or more info...

well this is just a point of view on financial that we dont know but the facts shows that it is difficult financially and they better lower their price so they can start selling and then start building but so far the bank account is low and payments are high thats for sure.

hope this can help to anyone interested to buy in LIC. PH, Foundry, the view etc...are all nice buildings with pros and cons, i thinks the pb is simple, they are all ridiculously over priced and should consider the economic situation, poor equipment/materials, marketing lies, job loss, interest rates, being in queens, bank not lending on building below 80% sold, wells fargo not lending to ph anymore and other...

not to cause any trouble but mike...either you're writing really quickly or your english is terrible. and regarding the parking lot...it's east not west.

"wells fargo not giving loans at the powerhouse anymore, "
Wrong, wells fargo continues to be one of their prefer lenders. Powerhouse added another prefer lender a few weeks back.

"the price per sf should def go down the 500 to 550 range should come soon in negotiation only as they will never advertise such. do your homework, see what is around"

Wrong again. only one unit sold for less than 550 per square foot and most new contracts are above 600.

"if the spa has a fee then this is really bad for the owners."
Wrong again. Usage of the spa is free for residents and charges are for services in the spa

"i did not mention anything about kitchen but as said above the kitchen appliances"
Beside the Range which is Jenair, all the rest of the appliances are VIKING. How is that cheap? So again, you are wrong wrong wrong.

"i thinks the pb is simple, they are all ridiculously over priced and should consider the economic situation, poor equipment/materials, marketing lies, job loss, interest rates, being in queens, bank not lending on building below 80% sold,"

Wrong wrong and more wrong. Bank of America is lending above 51%, Chase is lending for new developments above 70%, Wells Fargo is still a lender in the Power house. They are over priced in comparison to what neighborhood? Manhattan..NO.

"the new team might be honest ha someone said but they still not that great. the past team were just full of it"

New team have sold 18 units over the course of the last 8 weeks. I would say that is pretty darn good in this economic situation. Majority of these units sold above 609 psf.

Mike77,
Looks like your friends living in the powerhouse is spreading false rumors so your stupid ass don't move in. We don't need idiots in LIC. CHECK YOUR FACTS DAMMIT!!!

"We don't need idiots in LIC" Yep, seems to be plenty already.