Need help reporting a broker

They're playing you. The sister is probably having a coffee on the corner, NOT in Europe. They've got your offer & are trying to find a better one. Period.
Tell her she's got 24 hours or 12 hours to respond & meanwhile start looking for that MUCH BETTER apartment you KNOW is out there. Don't let 'em F with you!

What the f.. real estate market are you in? Go find ayourself another apartment- I am sure you will find more value for your money

Oh I'm still looking, saw three other places in the past few days and I wouldn't think twice about putting an offer down someplace else if I found something better (or just something I liked) but I haven't yet and what sucks is that I know it won't be easy in that nabe and in my price range. So I'm pissed for two reasons. One, that was a great place and I got excited about it for nothing and I might not find another for that price anytime soon. Two, I don't like being played with and yeah I clearly agree that that is what's going on because they know that have a hot property and can do that to people. So should I call Corcoran (her agency)? I'll hold off for the next few days but once all hope is lost I'm def calling someone cause she needs to learn how to treat people with respect or deal with the consequences.

Take a step back. Working up a fury against a broker and her sister who clearly are not interested in your offer is not fruitful. They are very likely using the offer you left dangling out there to their advantage when dealing with others interested in the unit. No offer should remain on the table indefinitely. You could of course have given a 3 day limit to the offer to start, but you did not. I suggest you call and either withdraw the offer or give them 24 hours to respond. At this point, even if it is accepted, the contract will not be drawn up for a week and they will still have another while to try to use it to get another bid higher than yours. It is the nature of the beast. There is no one to "report" this to. There isn't a broker morality and ethics police. And what you described is not the kind of egregious, stark behavior (trust me, there is A LOT worse than this out there) that REBNY or the NYS A.G. would ever respond to. Reclaim the power, take control. Set a deadline. And move on.

I feel like I did try to set a deadline without being too firm as I do really want the place. Actually calling her tomorrow and withdrawing the offer might be the best advice as the lack of control may be what's driving me crazy. Here's the actual chain between me and the agent:
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On Aug 22, 2008, at 8:53 AM:

Thank you Kim,

I got your submit offer and will probably be talking to the seller
today about the offers of yesterday. I will let you know as soon
as I hear.

Sent: Sat 8/23/2008 2:22 PM

Hi XX,

Just wondering if you had spoken to the seller.

Thanks
Kim

On Aug 23, 2008, at 4:11 PM:

No word yet. Waiting on her call.

Sent: 8/23/08 4:48 PM

Ok no problem. I did just want to tell you in the interest of full
disclosure that when I wrote on the offer form that I wouldn't be
making other offers I figured since I made a full price offer I'd
hear yes or no within 48 hours. There are open houses in the area
tomorrow and I have some appointments so please just let me know by Monday so that I can proceed either way.

Thanks

Sent: 8/23/08 5:00 PM

Sure - the issue is the seller is on vacation until the 26th in Europe! She knows she needs to talk to me this weekend because there are offers, but when-with the time change is the problem.
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But I mean why would you not be interested in the offer? They got what they asked for from a qualified buyer? I didn't try to shave a penny off of the asking price so I just don't get it.

Stop playing the victim. It comes across. You don't "kind of" set deadlines. And you aren't going to "make" this happen. Get emotionally involved like this and you'll be lost. It may be best to really take a step back at this point.

it's all zen.
to get it you should really not want it.
not just pretend to not want it - but be fully dispassionate about getting vs not getting it.

take deep breaths, tell the seller the offer is only valid for 24 hours because you have found another exciting property

If you don't get a response by the time you set in your last email, email the broker and withdraw your offer.

I like kylewest's counsel. Step back, cool off - then walk, letting these losers twist in the wind with their fake counter-offers.

This is all good advice, thanks.

kylewest I don't think I was playing the victim (here or to the agent but I guess you are saying the email made me look weak or fragile maybe?) I just never envisioned this happening and I'm now just trying to figure out why it did cause none of it makes sense. Clearly you are right though all offers should come with firm expiration dates from jump. Once again, full-price offer. If they thought they could or should get more why wouldn't they have listed for more and why urge me to act so that I could essentially hurry up and wait. In any case yes, again, you are all right and lesson learned for my next offer.

Many moons ago one of our wise brethren on this site said, 'Never fall in love with a property until it is yours'. Brilliant! So this is a learning experience for you & you'll handle the next situation differently. Why are they not jumping at full price? Because they want to get as much as they can for the property & perhaps pricing it low & getting competing bids & thus a greater price was their strategy. Remember, & repeat after me, "This - or something better". What I don't like to hear you say, dear Kim, is how hard it will be to find a place you like in that neighborhood & at your price. Watch what you say! How about, The unit I seek is seeking me. I can't wait to find the unit at my price which will be so much better than this one. Now go find it - wiser & stronger & much more positive & unable to be toyed with. Let us know what happens! ;-)

drdrd--thanks! ;)

waaah, my flight was delayed, what do I do?

waaah, my mother was overbearing and so I'm gay and that's unfair, waaah

waaah, I'm short and why is my penis small too, waaah

Kim, you're welcome. ;) Remember, even if they come back & accept your offer, you don't have a contract until both you & the seller sign it & that gives them delay time, too. Talk to your excellent real estate lawyer, of course, but I'd see if you can start giving them narrow windows of time to produce the contract & get it signed or "Bye bye, I'm still looking for that MUCH better place". Oh, & maybe they can do something about the price? Start getting VERY picky! ;;) This is a buyer's market & it is the Father's great pleasure to give you the kingdom.

kinerama: When you say "I never thought this could happen," and keep repeating "full offer" and wondering how on earth this could happen, those are not statements from a position of strength. The honest, innocent lamb gets squashed under the RE bus. These people had the unit on the market, then it was off, then it was on. Sister represents sister. Yellow flags are up that something is going on. Why are you so concerned about what exactly is going on? You simply cannot become this attached to a prospective property or operate this naively in NYC RE.

Please take this in perspective: I think you may not be an effective a negotiator as you would like or hope to be. Since it would cost you nothing, I would strongly suggest you consider using a buyer's broker in the future. Of course, it would have to be a broker you like, feel is competent in your area of the market, and who comes highly recommended from someone you trust. But the type of negotiating you describe having done here is kind of an example of how someone more skilled at this can be a real asset. If you tell us the neighborhood, your price range and the type of apartment you want (size/type of building), perhaps someone here can recommend someone to you as a way to start if you aren't sure where to begin looking for an agent.

Because I'll wind up having to say this in an hour after I'm accused of being a broker by a dozen other posters, I AM NOT a RE broker. I don't generally like them and I think it is a business that attracts many dishonest, unqualified, incompetent people. That said, having a good one can really help some people. I chose to use one because I prefer negotiating through a third party so we can play a little bad cop(me)/good cop(my broker) and because the agent can usually extract more info from the seller's agent that is useful in negotiations than I could extract. My broker was also a god-send in helping to vet buyers when I was selling and in prepping board packages when I was buying. There's a lot more to this than just finding a property you like.

""If they thought they could or should get more why wouldn't they have listed for more and why urge me to act so that I could essentially hurry up and wait.""

This is the typical psychology of many negotiations. If a buyer seems too eager, quickly offering full price, the seller *may* second-guess whether their asking price is actually too low. It's often best (especially in this market) to offer a bit lower, even if you are willing to go up to the full ask. Think of it as a form of haggling in a Moroccan bazaar--you make an offer for a widget, the seller shakes his head, you start to walk away, the seller calls you back and counters, then you counter and the process is underway.

Kyle's advice to use a (competent) buyer's broker in the future is very sound. It can be extremely helpful to have someone negotiating on your behalf--the old "I'll have to check with my client and get back to you on that" can be a great tool in any negotiation. Just make sure the broker representing you is, indeed, competent and tough. I mention this because we recently had a contract on an apartment fall through because, frankly, the broker representing us, while a very sweet person, was simply not a strong negotiator and did not follow our directions fully. The seller's broker basically ate her lunch, and we were ultimately unable to come to a meeting of the minds with the seller over terms.

Again agree with all the advice. I was foolishly operating under the belief that agents might like the fact that I came without an agent (full commission for them) and that in the case of multiple offers mine would be the one they'd push. Maybe not the best way to operate because of the above. The thing is I had been talking to agents but no one was willing to do any legwork and I found places myself on this site and others that they weren't finding for me. It got to the point where they just expected me to send them listings and then they'd call to make the appointment, yeah really earning a commission there. So yeah if anyway knows of good agents (like actually good) in the Brooklyn Heights nabe (one bedroom range) let me know.

And yeah I was vulnerable cause I wanted the place and probably showed my hand in a way that shouldn't be done in a business transaction so again, lesson learned. Hardball is the way to go in the future screw it. I'm coming with perfect credit, a ton of money down, I don't have to kiss any butt in this market, great apartment or not. I'm done.

Lots of good advice here.

Using a buyer's broker is sound advice. I can't believe you said this to the seller's agent --

>I did just want to tell you in the interest of full
>disclosure that when I wrote on the offer form that I wouldn't be
>making other offers I figured since I made a full price offer I'd
>hear yes or no within 48 hours.

You know you can make offers on other apartments even though you have an outstanding offer. Let go. Remember this is the last week of summer too. Maybe they are playing around with you, but perhaps this is just the case where people want to wait until after Labor Day to get back to work. Be patient. If you are really interested in the apartment, don't withdraw your offer, but do stop making contacting with them for the time being. They know how to get in touch with you. If in the interim you get serious about another apartment and things start moving along with it, then I would consider withdrawing the offer on this apartment.

Good luck!

Valldejuli--ha, I actually thought that was me taking a stand. Guess it didn't come off that way.

I mean listen I'm a real estate newbie compared to most others on this site, I def get that, but I did just sell my co op myself without an agent so I'm not a total neophyte. I do think I could have gone about this better though and yeah, I'll just operate as if the offer was denied and if they come back to me proceed with caution and detachment.

Kimerama --

I think at this point it's okay to call the broker's office and ask for her manager and say that you are quite concerned that you haven't had a response to a full-price offer, that you understand there it's August and everyone is on vacation, but it has been several days and can the manager help you expedite things in any way?

This will at least clarify the situation. If the broker is jacking you around, her manager will get you an answer, and then you can move forward. If the seller is jacking you around instead, you'll know that soon enough.

ali r.
{downtown broker}

No, it sure didn't! Anyway, negotiating can be learned, and it's an excellent life skill. I learned a lot by reading "Getting to yes: negotiating agreement without giving in".

Also you sound very excited about this apartment, it is obvious you really really want it, and I hope it works out for you. As people have said before, it is better to not appear to really want something to the outside world. Keep it in or discuss with close friends only who are not in any way invested in the deal. Trust me, you acting nonchalant can work to your benefit. The seller may be stringing you along because they know your level of interest and are waiting for more offers since everyone knows the market is really going to BOOM after Labor Day. That is a wee joke of course.

Again good luck!

When I saw the heading for this post I thought, wow, cool, another bad broker story! I've dealt with brokers who have done terrible things like manipulating board packages, etc. Sorry, kimerama, but the broker didn't do anything wrong or unethical here. What you really need to do is adjust your expectations and enhance your poker face.

I also wonder what's up with this unit, and why the previous offer fell through. Was it the same agent? and what's the seller's deal - is she looking to sell right away? It's good to understand the seller's motivation, and market history of the unit BEFORE you make an offer. I'll bet they were quick to sell it but figured, if someone came in this soon they can start a bidding war.

So what to do next? Absolutely nothing. Kind of like dating; don't obsess over this one, just move on and let them contact you if they're interested.

Also, be careful not to expose too many details on this message board; the same broker could be reading it.

"Also, be careful not to expose too many details on this message board; the same broker could be reading it." Um - good advice but - if the broker is reading this, too many details have already been given. This post isn't exactly subtle in obscuring the identity of this transaction or Kim's thoughts.

Write a letter to the owner of the apartment... you clearly have the address already.

Why write a letter to the owner? The prospective buyer needs to be cool and detached. The ball is in the seller's court.

The owner is the seller's sister - there is no way a mailed letter from Kim is going to get to the owner any faster than through her sister. There is no question in my mind that the seller already has the offer and is holding onto it - hoping for a better offer after Labor Day. I think the suggestion to go through the Corcoran manager is a better one - although I don't think that will help either.

The sister angle is the one you've neglected. It means that the broker has a much higher interest in getting the best price, almost as if it was her own place. For all you know, the selling broker is waiving her commission (though you coming without a broker means there's definitely no 3% going from them for your broker).

Calling the broker's manager / licensor / spiritual adviser won't do anything. Her responsibility is to her *client*, not to you. If she told her client about your offer and advised "lets wait it out and try to spark a bidding war", and her client agreed, she's 100% in the right.

I would say that their line of thinking is "We've got this buyer & she's CRAZY for the apartment & she's promised to stay on the line so what do we have to lose in waiting for another offer & then maybe Miss Kim will increase hers. More better." I'd keep looking & actually hoping to find that much better apartment so I could tell them to kiss my tail fin as I swam away.

Any update what happened here?