No board approval co ops

I think you should look for sponsor sales, I believe sponsor sales in a coop do not require board approval. I think you can list that as a parameter when you do s search on Streeteasy

Mind you, I forgot to add, but if you purchase a sponsor sale, you may not need board approval but for resale, when you want to sell your unit, your buyer will most likely need board approval

You can do a streeteasy search, and modify the search for 'sponsor sales'. There are a dozen or so at the moment in Manhattan. I'm not convinced any are bargains, based on some of the ones I quickly looked at.

>I'm not convinced any are bargains,

They never are

There are bargains. Just buy assets that rich people will want before they want them, then wait. SoHo and Tribeca in the 1970s, Brooklyn and Harlem in the 1990s, Limestone Jesus in the mid 2000s. Once rich people are making an area hot, it's too late.

As for sponsor sales, beware that sponsors often expect the buyer to pay the sponsor's transfer tax in addition to the sale price. Just one more "gotcha" in the fine print. Let's hear it for New York!

Btw, there may well be current bargains for grand old coops in stuffy buildings in 5th Ave, Sutton, River House, etc. Personally I don't think the returns are high enough given the inflexibility, high carrying costs, and high transaction costs, but it's not every day that you see trophy properties selling for less than their 2005 price.

I doubt there are any sponsor units left in those stuffy coops, though you might be buying from a family that bought when the building was converted. As for discounts, the 3rd floor at 820 5th is asking substantially less than the 12th floor did ~15 years ago, and significantly less than than it's initial ask ~5 years ago. And you could probably get it for even less. If 5th Ave is too noisy for you, the sellers of #13A at River House will probably be taking a net loss even if you paid the ask (that den ceiling wasn't cheap!).

Bernie Spritzer kept some sponsor units in his coops on CPS that are still rented out. I'm sure the Board loves him for that.

He'll also have some sponsor units to sell when he razes his rental building on Museum Mile

As for 820, they got rid of summer work rules, so at least there's that.

You're forgetting a few steps, George. Usually the it neighborhoods start with the artists/gays. They lay the ground work, figure out what's interesting before the Wall Street crowd gets involved. Though perhaps it's more out of necessity than status.

But why hold out for a stuffy old building, when you can buy bankrupt new construction?:

"A handful of Madison Avenue condominiums located in a luxury high-rise building near the Empire State building have wound up in bankruptcy and will be sold in Chapter 11.

The residences include five penthouses, five non-penthouse residential units and two commercial units, according to developer Madison 33 Owner LLC, which filed Chapter 11 on Monday. Some of the units at 172 Madison Avenue aren’t fully finished.

The company said it will cost about $13.5 million to complete the penthouses “before they can be sold at optimum value.” The fair market value of the units “once fully improved” will be at least $100.6 million, Madison 33 Owner said."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-27/madison-avenue-condos-near-empire-state-building-hit-chapter-11?cmpid=BBD082724_BIZ&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=240827&utm_campaign=bloombergdaily

It's true in urban areas that artists and queers often precede the rich people, but it's not always a good indicator. Ideally you find a place rich people once lived in, sold out, and now will rediscover.

This is why Central Harlem has done better than Red Hook or Alphabet City. Rich people once lived near the corner of MLK and Malcolm X and the housing stock is well suited for their return.

George,

Not sure about central Harlem even if you ignore some of the upper parts. Historical townhouses are beautiful there but for the last 7-10 years it is kind of stagnant vs BK Prime. Malcolm X and 125th is still pretty bleak. Yes there are stores and amenities. On a prime Saturday time, I found more employees in Whole Foods than customers. 69+++++++++++May be Trader's Joe will go better. Public schools pretty bleak. If Red Hook had the public transportion of Harlem, it would have been prime BK mostly from new development.

George,

Not sure about central Harlem even if you ignore some of the upper parts. Historical townhouses are beautiful there but for the last 7-10 years it is kind of stagnant vs BK Prime. Malcolm X and 125th is still pretty bleak. Yes there are stores and amenities. On a prime Saturday time, I found more employees in Whole Foods than customers. May be Trader's Joe will go better. Public schools pretty bleak. If Red Hook had the public transportion of Harlem, it would have been prime BK mostly from new development.

Aaron,

Thank you for posting Bloomberg article. I think the issue is the location for that building and taxes are not lower than nicer areas. Very unpleasant if you have to take the subway from Herald Square. I would much rather do a building east of City Hall rather than this one. Condo choices in good locations are still limited and priced at a significant premium.

Speaking of central Harlem, we just missed out on a beautiful brownstone that had been on the market about a year with a few price cuts. If the neighborhood works for you, you can get quite a nice home for about $500 a square foot.

@ George: It's why Park Slope went through such a turnaround: Single family brownstones converted to apartments (post-WW2 housing crunch), and emptied out (families fleeing to suburbs), leading to reduced general maintenance and quality of housing. Things got so desperate Brooklyn Union Gas offered Cinderella loans to renovate and stabilize neighborhoods (*), bringing in those who would otherwise be financially challenged to take on something brownstone-sized and aged. As the neighborhood improved, the money followed, and it became a decent neighborhood again (I heard "Oh, I've heard Park Slope is an up and coming neighborhood" for the first 10 years I lived there. My landlady heard it for 20 years prior to that.). There has been a similar trajectory in Hells Kitchen and Chelsea, (though often they just tear down the buildings and put up new), and in Central Harlem.

* https://www.brownstonedetectives.com/cinderella-of-berkeley-place-1971/ The program still exists: https://www.nationalgridus.com/Our-Company/Community-Presence/Cinderella-Programs

I don't spend much time in BK so I shouldn't comment much but I'll add that the crazy low property tax also has something to do with Park Slope's ascension and the relative stagnation of Manhattan TH prices

Keith: $500 / SF????

(signed, probably the most recent person on this board to purchase in Central Harlem)

Yes, and that's based on the asking price. Beautiful home on strivers row. A little bit of research and you can find it. I don't want to post it here because it's not in contract yet, but I was told should be signed in a day or two.

Though I will add, I thought they miscalculated the square footage a bit, so that might skew the price per square foot depending on the clearing price.

George, BK 1-3 family price increase is helped in big part due to low taxes.

Why does the OP want a No Board Approval unit?

Personally I think it's the wrong place in the cycle to buy in a secondary neighborhood and surf the "up and coming neighborhood" to riches. I think is just as likely that these are overpriced and will take oversized hit if the market receeds.

I'm wondering exactly which neighborhoods people thing are on the verge of booming? I can't think of any.

>> If 5th Ave is too noisy for you, the sellers of #13A at River House will probably be taking a net loss even if you paid the ask (that den ceiling wasn't cheap!).

I like the powder room (pic 21 of 23).

https://streeteasy.com/building/river-house/13a

@nada: Agreed! For my tastes, there's a lot to like in that unit.

Yeah, $500/sq ft for a townhouse (typically in need of love or has had some entry level updates) in Central Harlem is possible right now- and yes, often the sq ft is manipulated- counting the cellar. Even something nicely renovated can be had right now for under $800/sq ft

This particular home is actually in very good condition condition, I was surprised to see quite a few others in the same price range. Strivers Row.

Once you start to add 100% of the square footage of 100% below ground 6'8" height cellar without windows, per square foot price starts to look good.

@300 - “Community adjusted square footage”

Ha. More like Broker Adjusted Square Footage.

I agree that few neighborhoods are going to boom unless and until NYC gets its mojo back which I also don't expect with the horrible mayor and governor we are stuck with. That said, if I were to buy in a marginal neighborhood, I'd look at the old mansions just south of Prospect Park. I've not found housing of this quality any closer to Manhattan... maybe Forest Hills is a comparable.

Example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/144-Westminster-Rd-Brooklyn-NY-11218/30666659_zpid/

What's wrong with the Mayor and Guv?

>> … I'd look at the old mansions just south of Prospect Park.… Example: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/144-Westminster-Rd-Brooklyn-NY-11218/30666659_zpid/

But that’s only 3500 sq ft — does / did anyone really consider it a mansion?

In NY, a mansion could be a studio if it sells over $1m.

I've been watching 13A at River House for years. I love it. It looks like it was decorated by Robert Kime himself.

That powder room is WILD.