Children not welcome in NYC

Today, got on a bus with a stroller.

The bus had a ramp. I asked the driver if he could unfold the ramp for me. He said, it's for disabled persons only, and if I am struggling it's my fault, since I did not fold the stroller. But how does he know my child is walking/ standing, and why different treatment for adult person in a wheelchair vs a potentially non-walking child?

Lifted the stroller, got on the bus, paid full fare for myself, and got stuck. There was an old guy sitting in one of the front seats, with a walker in front of him blocking the way, making it impossible to go past him with a stroller. A walker, not a wheelchair, just standing in front of this guy. Asked to move the walker out of the way. He refused. The driver suggested I get off and get on thru the back door which he will open for me and I don't have to pay the fare again. So I had to left the stroller again through another door. Not great for my back, but at least we did not disturb the old fart.

Then we got to the playground we wanted to check out, but it was closed with orange cones and tape around it as well as nearby plaza. With no explanation at all.

Happened to me yesterday too. I decided to go for a longer run than usual along the Hudson. Got to Battery Park and the whole area was walled off. Had to turn around. Ran in the other direction instead.

But there was some good news along the path: the Pier 26 playground is now open.

One of the more recent phenomena is many playgrounds are taken over by Bike Delivery people who use for their rest area. While grown-ups should be able to use the playgrounds, not sure playgrounds are meant just for resting area for businesses. Perhaps City Govt will require the delivey services like Doordash to provide a rest area for their contractors/workers - essentially rent the back of a store with adequate space.

For strollers, folding is the rule.
https://www.mta.info/guides/riding-the-bus
https://www.mta.info/accessibility/bus-stroller-areas

Back in my day when dinosaurs roamed the earth, the bus driver wouldn't stop for you if you hadn't already folded your stroller. So we used to have two strollers, and the "bus one" was an ultralight titanium thing that you could fold with one hand.

Delighted to report after all the time I spent lubricating with special airplane grease it couldn't instantly remember the brand of it. (McLaren Mark II, since discontinued.)

But I do recommend owning one that you can fold with one hand -- if you go to the West Side to Albee Baby they'll have whatever the latest models are.

Sorry to hear about that Krolik. Sounds like the guy couldn't be bothered to lift a finger - what a pain.

Good article, too. How did we get here?

I think I'm turning into George Carlin.

I was on M15 bus which is part of an Open Stroller Pilot program.

I just couldn't get to the designated spot because of the old guy unwilling to move his walker.

If you fold a stroller, what do you do with a one year old, or a non-walking child?

https://www.mta.info/press-release/mta-announces-second-phase-of-open-stroller-pilot-program-include-1000-buses-57

>>But there was some good news along the path: the Pier 26 playground is now open.

I'll have to check it out. If I can find a bus to take me there

>>I think I'm turning into George Carlin.

Nice. I'll buy a ticket if you are half as funny

>> I'll have to check it out. If I can find a bus to take me there

I wouldn’t bother, it’d be a trek.

You generally wear the child in a Bjorn or similar until it can walk, or if not, just scoop it up and hold it (which is why you need to be able to fold your stroller with one hand.) The question then becomes, what do you do with the two-year-old who stands on the bus seat and jumps around while everyone gives you the stink-eye?

Strollers have become the size of small shower stalls. You don't get a pass if you want to bring a piece of furniture onto the bus. FP has the right idea plus maybe get travel size containers for baby essentials. Child does not equal parade permit.

Ali's suggestion is a good one. In the city, you have to keep a strap on baby carrier in addition to a light stroller. The city subways are even more difficult to navigate using a stroller but people manage. Stroller entry is from the back of the buses BTW. People with walker feel that they have the first right over a child - it is as simple as that.

Acutally pilot program video shows the driver is supposed to lower the front ramp if there is stroller decal on the bus.

You can easily make the argument that NYC is much more dog friendly than child friendly as many other large cities I’ve lived/live in. San Francisco particularly comes to mind. In nyc, I’ve seen dogs literally everywhere, in restaurants, grocery stores, banks, subways, even the bus on occasion (although subway is more common). I’ve seen dogs in “no dog” parts of playgrounds pretty often. And in certain cases, the dog is off leash. I’ve yet to see a dog owner admonished or fines for breaking the rules. But apparently, you try to bring a baby stroller on a bus, through the front no less, and all hell breaks loose.

I don't think the NYC culture is 'intolerant' of children, it's just not primarily designed for them, which comes as a surprise to many new parents.

There have always been plenty of children in NYC, what ever did people do before this article? This is mostly the Post out for a troll, looking for lots of examples of intolerant residents and overburdened parents.

As the lead character in Christopher Bollen's "Havoc" says: "Children aren't the world's inheritors, they are its thieves, skating by on the hard work of generations that came before them."

Aaron,

That quote is a little harsh. Children are ones who keep the social security and medicare alive as these are not fully funded programs despite hard work of previous generations.

NYC does need an adjustment for parents such as the one pointed out by Ali for wearable baby carrier due to high density of everything. And playgrounds for kids, while having increased in number from 20 years back, are still encroached upon by grown-ups. So people like me just made peace with the fact that it is much better than 20 years back. There was no west side highway park before as an example.

>>>Ali's suggestion is a good one. In the city, you have to keep a strap on baby carrier in addition to a light stroller.

I did carrier for a small baby. But this is a young toddler now, too heavy for me. If I carry the toddler, I will break my back and need a walker myself. But toddler is still not that good at walking, cannot do stairs, etc. I don't want the toddler to crawl on the bus floor near people's feet, get stepped on etc.

The stroller I have is the same size and model as the one shown in this video
https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/transit/2023/03/23/more-bus-routes-will-allow-open-strollers-by-fall--mta-says

>>>You can easily make the argument that NYC is much more dog friendly than child friendly

Totally. Dogs are constantly hanging out on our neighborhood no dog playground. Especially they love the artificial turf. They probably pee everywhere.

>>> don't think the NYC culture is 'intolerant' of children, it's just not primarily designed for them, which comes as a surprise to many new parents.
There have always been plenty of children in NYC...

Yes, there have been lots of children in the city in the past, and I am generally a proponent of trying to raise children in the city.
But the Post article mentions the under 5 population is almost 20% smaller than 5 years ago. That's a big change. Combine that with the fact that old people population grew 17x faster than general population in the last 20 years, and I think you can see a trend

>>>So people like me just made peace with the fact that it is much better than 20 years back. There was no west side highway park before as an example.

That is true of a lot of things. The next generation will inherit engineering inventions, scientific discoveries, and various land improvements. But they also will inherit global warming, mountains of trash, PFAS everywhere, cities full of crumbling structures too expensive to repair, nuclear weapons proliferation etc.

Nearly every prior generation had it better than their parents. But this trend has now reversed.

>>>As the lead character in Christopher Bollen's "Havoc" says: "Children aren't the world's inheritors, they are its thieves, skating by on the hard work of generations that came before them."

I had to look up this character... hardly a role model

Guess that's one of the pluses of having two children before I turned 22, very resilient . Never had an issue in New York City getting on a bus with the kid (s)... Always had a pretty flimsy easily foldable stroller, Just easier in general to get around. Don't remember if the buses in the '80s had rear doors, but that's definitely the way to go if you've got a big stroller. I can't imagine trying to get through the front!?

After the bus driver told me that I had to fold the stroller before the bus arrives and the bus drive would not wait for me to fold the stroller, I just went straight to subway station.

Yes, I carried the stroller with the kid while climbing up/down the stairs all the time. It's easier to do for a guy. My wife doesn't like it at all. She always tried to get the toddler to get out of the stroller to climb the stairs by himself (or herself). Sometimes, a stranger may help her.

>>>Never had an issue in New York City getting on a bus with the kid (s)...

1) A man

2) Young, able-bodied with no injuries

3) In general, this is a limited time problem, although I think people forget this. A young baby is small and easy in a carrier. A 2 year old might be unruly, but at least can get around on own two feet. It is an older baby to young toddler that presents particular challenges. I don't understand why a baby that cannot walk is treated so differently from a disabled person in a wheelchair that cannot walk. Definitely don't understand why a grown non-disabled man with a walker could not be bothered to move it, and why the driver and everyone else around him tolerated this behavior.

>>>Don't remember if the buses in the '80s had rear doors, but that's definitely the way to go if you've got a big stroller. I can't imagine trying to get through the front!?

Everyone gets on the bus with a stroller through the front door. I have tried it both ways and front door is definitely the way to go. There is more room to maneuver. there is a ramp / kneeling bus feature, and there is often a seat that can be folded up in the front in order to park an open stroller, as well as a wider distance between seats. I have an average size stroller, not a particularly big one.

It sounds like you just had a bad day, the cranky guy with a walker won't be there tomorrow. And most likely you'll have a different bus driver that will hopefully be more accommodating. There are certainly greater problems one could have in this world.

>>>It sounds like you just had a bad day,

I think you are right. Thanks for listening. I feel better :-)

But under 5 population shrinking by double digits in five years is both revealing and concerning.

Woodside,
We did the subway too. It was easier and there were always a lot of people willing to help all the time when my wife was by herself. While Krolik seemed to have some bad luck, our experiences in NYC with a child have been pleasant in terms of people being nice. The only problem is / has been cleanliness (putting it mildly) and having to watch your back at subway stations/cars due to homeless/mentally ill.

On a lighther note, I am wondering what would happen if there were two or three stroller moms/dads trying to get on a stroller friendly bus.

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After the bus driver told me that I had to fold the stroller before the bus arrives and the bus drive would not wait for me to fold the stroller, I just went straight to subway station.

>> If I carry the toddler, I will break my back and need a walker myself.

Then you get to be the cranky one who gets the ramp and sits at the front of the bus… so problem solved?!??

@300: It is a bit extreme, and while I agree that children are one of the reasons for keeping Medicare alive, unfortunately, they don't vote, and it's not clear that there are enough parents voting for the people who will keep it alive.

I'm curious about the numbers decreasing/increasing for various age cohorts, and would prefer to see them over a longer timespan. 2020 was not necessarily a representative year for NYC populations, and I expect there's a decline across multiple decades, which is not surprising, given the aging US population and the long term trend of a decreasing fertility rate.

Honestly, it's hard to even take this complaint seriously. You're annoyed at an old guy with a walker? And you're surprised that a guy that drives a New York City bus in Manhattan doesn't really give a s*** about how you're going to get your $600 baby stroller into his bus, lol.

I'm old school, New Yorkers were tough back in my day ; )

The child population decline cited in the NY Post article repeats stats from earlier articles and covers the three years prior to 2023, so is COVID-induced misleading. I have no idea what current stats might show.

The self-righteous dog owner observations in my view has nothing to do with dog owner, and everything to do with self-righteous. We have evolved into a society where following rules is self-selection without consequence. There is a 4 foot x 8 foot sign at the entrance to the Tribeca Whole Foods no dogs allowed, and there are a dozen dogs in there at all times. It remains illegal to bring a pet in any indoor establishment that serves food, or on public transportation if not in a carrier. 10+ years ago the city would incessantly ticket bodegas for having cats that actually benefitted hygiene.

As for receptivity toward children, that has to be expected to some extent in what is probably the greatest concentration of childless adults in the world (in Manhattan, at least). But the annoyance or animosity toward spoiled children and their self-important parents is often well-earned, so even those that do not earn it may nevertheless feel it.

Krolik, that's a great stroller, but it's kind of an SUV. You might want to look at something like the Summer 3Dlite (we didn't have it, but a friend did) for a second "travel" stroller. It's about a dozen pounds lighter and I believe it's not too hard to fold. (As opposed to the G-Luxe, which was popular in our pre-school but always seemed a little fiddly to me.)

Sport, You make some good points. NYC is a crowded city with a lot of stressed out (and some of those self-righteous) people who are ready to explode at a moment's notice. So one has to cut others some slack just for your own mental peace. But if you start to develop expectation of nice behavior from people in places like subway, you will always find that 1 in 10 or 20 who will disappoint you as they don't think they will ever see you again.

Imagine a law firm or investment banking associate working 70-90 hours a week with 5-6 hours of average nightly sleep with asshole superiors and/or clients. I think I would have a hard time being nice if I were to be in that situation.

New Yorkers are nice enough.

Rinette, I tend to agree once you factor in what their situation may be.

300, you just profiled many of my clients...

Backtracking a bit here -

grown non-disabled man with a walker

??? Why would any ambulatory adult in their right mind schlepp around town with a walker?
My personal pet peeve is people with walkers/empty granny carts that refuse to collapse said items on the bus. Seems like all the walkers that have a built in seat can collapse plus many of the simple frame types.

>>>Imagine a law firm or investment banking associate working 70-90 hours a week with 5-6 hours of average nightly sleep with asshole superiors and/or clients. I think I would have a hard time being nice if I were to be in that situation.

Don't think either the man with a walker or the bus driver were in this situation.

Personally, I (and actually any parent of a baby/toddler) am way closer to this situation than they are.

Krolik, That is the point. Your level of stress with make you upset much more easily.

But the bus driver and the walker man aren't necessarily going to care. I am not saying they are right but that is how it is in big dense city.

I agree with Ali’s take. I have a 6 and 3 year old. We had an Uppababy when we took the car or around the neighborhood, but when we knew we needed public transit it was the Maclaren umbrella stroller. Now the Uppababy was moved on via Craigslist but we still have the Maclaren for our daughter.

Congratulations to Krolik, by the way, for making the March 31st cover of The New Yorker!

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2025/03/31

Buy a car

OMG that is so funny about The New Yorker cover.

>>>Now the Uppababy was moved on via Craigslist, but we still have the Maclaren for our daughter.

When my kid is 3, I will do the same. Even though I have the smaller model (Cruz), I still don't love it in my house.

@krolik - were I you, I would frame that cover with a copy of this dialogue.

That looks like 14th Street, which I believe has an elevator.

Artistic license.

Though I never have taken an elevator in the subway system. Even when I was lugging around two kids. Cheap umbrella stroller bought at rite aid...

Those elevators stink of urine..with some exceptions like on UES Q train stops.

Soon enough

>>>That looks like 14th Street, which I believe has an elevator.

Maybe it was out of service... happens all the time

I take them sometimes. It's always Russian roulette.

Update:
So I signed up my toddler for a morning school about 20 blocks away and this morning partner and I took a bus (part of open stroller program) up third avenue to drop baby off for the first time. We boarded the bus with a compact Bugaboo Butterfly stroller (it is one of the smaller travel strollers out there, just saying ) and I was trying to make my way towards the available designated stroller parking spot. There is a perfectly capable woman sitting in one of the disabled seats in the front with a gigantic un-collapsed walker blocking the way. She had a Stanley water cup in an attached cup holder and a bag with stuff attached under the seat of the walker. I struggled to get past her and politely asked her to move the walker out of the way. She refused and started mocking me (!!!!!) saying that this was entirely my problem. She said she was making fun of me for asking her and she wouldn't move the walker an inch to help, and when I suggested she might collapse it to help us get us thru and to the stroller parking slot, she said there is too much stuff on her walker to do that and that I should be the one to collapse the stroller.

We also had more than usual amount of stuff in the stroller, definitely more than the little bag on her walker (as we had to bring a big bag of diapers to leave at the school on our first day), but since I was with my partner, we managed.

Once we were in the stroller spot, I asked him what he thought of this interaction and he said it was INSANE, and that in his opinion, this goes to show that boomer and older generations are extremely self-entitled. For the record, my partner has a 9-5-ish job, and gets enough sleep, so this was a reaction from a person who was thinking extremely straight. In general, he has no problem telling me if I am in the wrong.

Next stop, a person with a huge grocery cart, completely filled up, boards and sits in the first seat near the door, leaving the cart in front of them to block the way. People had to contort to board the bus. No one challenged the inconsiderate old people because no one wants to get screamed at and mocked.

I think your observations are completely normal for New York City. Having lived in other cities, and currently spending 50% of my time in NYC, 50% in San Francisco/Los Angeles, New Yorkers are a pretty bunch. I definitely notice when walking or running on sidewalks, nobody gives you leeway. I don’t think they care if you have a young child or some visible disability, or are elderly, etc..it’s basically your responsibility to move out of the way because they are important and in a hurry. You have to get used it. If it really bothered me, I would take my tax dollars and assets and money I spend in city supporting local businesses somewhere else. And that is probably what I will do in the next couple of years because New York City is (just my opinion), highly overrated. Sorry, it’s not the center of the universe. But for now, I just tolerate the rudeness. You have to. One thing…I do appreciate New Yorkers bluntness, at least they don’t hide their rudeness and disdain for you. On the West Coast, when I’m engaged in conversation, I often wonder, is this person telling me what I want to hear and actually has a negative opinion about me or something and just wants to be “nice” by not saying it.

911, "the East Coast is kind but not nice, the West Coast is nice but not kind"

I like that, Ali, great quote!

Buy a car

Riding the bus in midtown Manhattan is the equivalent of taking the Amtrak down to Florida, a lot of characters. Always had a car in the city, 30.

Everyone should live in NY, but leave before they get too hard: likewise, everyone should live in San Francisco, but leave before they get too soft.

>>Buy a car

LOL

So the suggestion is for me to drive 25 blocks from Murray Hill, look for a parking on UES, unload the kid, then take the car to work in Midtown, park near office in Midtown, then take the car home and park overnight in $500 per month garage? This is not a suburb, the city does not have enough parking spots for me to do this.

Or just suck it up and deal with the bus. I can imagine there are bigger problems people are facing than a cranky old lady with an overloaded Walker. And hopefully such obstacles don't present themselves on every every trip on the bus.

Krolik,
Typical of you to ignorantly make up a worst case situation rather than actually evaluate the possibilities

There are a lot of grumpy New Yorkers but Parisians give them a run for their money. I suppose Angelinos and San Francisans are friendly but they can also over-egg it a bit

Krolik, why did you end up with a morning school so far from home? Were there no decent options closer?

When I travel in European cities, I see very few people using walkers or wheel chairs. Why do so many Americans use walkers? Doctors here are very quick to write prescriptions for walkers and electric wheel chairs so their patients can get them free from Medicare.

Looks like riders with walkers and grocery carts etc are exercising their long established squatter rights. They are not used to strollers open in their buses. And they will not give an inch. May be we will read in NYPOST about a fight between a stroller mom/dad and someone with walker. I would guess walker as winner as no one dares to mess with them.

If you can't figure out how to navigate the city with a stroller, it's time to move to the suburbs ; )

Keith, A lot of people manage with kids in strollers. It is a matter of not getting frustrated when for whatever reason people don't accomodate strollers despite govt's pilot program for strollers.

Who is going to mess with people with walkers!! They can figure out a way to sue the city and socially people with walkers will get the sympathy vs a parent with child in the stroller. People aren't going to see this as older person with walker vs baby but vs parent of the baby.

There are numerous other cases where one has to just make peace. People smoking pot on sidewalks which lingers in the air and gets into apartments or building lobbies. Nothing you can do but make peace.

I guess I just find it interesting , or maybe amusing is a better word ,that there's an entire thread dedicated to Riding a bus in New York City with your child or children. I know a little bit about this since I raised two children in Manhattan, and I can't ever once remember wasting a minute of my time on such a subject. I guess my attitude as a New Yorker was, it's public transportation, New York is filled with all sorts of characters, and a bus in New York City is not a place I'm going to expect perfect etiquette and civil behavior. It's simply part of the experience. And I'm sure that every person with a walker, wheelchair or grocery card is going to be a total a******.. and maybe it's just me, but I think I'd have a bit more sympathy for at least two of the above, knowing what a privileged life I was living.

Isn't...

Some stories:
https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/10/04/nyc-mta-buses-stroller-space-test-drivers-concerns-argument-attack

https://www.thecity.nyc/2022/09/16/mta-baby-stroller-space-nyc-buses/

Krolik, How about organizing a stroller protest at the MTA Pilot Program's office for strollers? Show them who is the boss!!

“When I travel in European cities, I see very few people using walkers or wheel chairs. Why do so many Americans use walkers?”

Simple. Americans, in general, are lazy and out of shape, relative to Europeans. I’m not picking on Americans, as a Canadian, Canadians are not much better. And yes, we all want a pill from our doctor to make us feel better as long as the “rich” or someone else pays for it. Instead of, god forbid, exercising and eating a proper diet. Plus, Americans are much more litigious in general. I can’t help but think all these poor souls in wheelchairs and walkers are waiting to pounce on the opportunity to file a lawsuit because some business or person won’t accommodate them

Case in point:

https://nypost.com/2025/04/16/us-news/disabled-man-launched-dozens-of-lawsuits-in-ada-shakedown-lawyer/

It's the USA diet and lack of exercise as previously mentioned plus we have one of the best ADA policies in the world so disabled can get on the bus in the first place. I remember before covid seeing quite a few homeless type men in their 30's with leg amputations in wheelchairs, not overweight. I assumed they were type 1 diabetic that did not take their insulin. I'm guessing they all died during the epidemic but they seem to be coming back. Vets on the other hand can get prothetic devices. I don't think basic Medicaid covers that.

Turbo, You do not see as many wheelchairs and walkers in Europe as it is much harder for them to get around in the cities as the buildings are old with no ADA compliance, no elevator, and the infrastructure is not ADA friendly either. Of couse, in America ADA rules are a little crazy in cities like NYC.

"...all these poor souls in wheelchairs and walkers are waiting to pounce on the opportunity to file a lawsuit..." I think they've been pushed (or wheeled) to the back of the line by all the people with therapy cockatoos.

>>>Krolik, why did you end up with a morning school so far from home? Were there no decent options closer?

Clearly, this was not an obvious choice, and will be a long answer, but since you asked.... :-)

School is because
1) I need more hours coverage + less headache with scheduling
- 60 hours of coverage that i need means a nanny and a part time nanny or two (one nanny with overtime is preferred, but nannies don't seem to love working less than 35 or more than 45hrs per week. Understandable - its a physical job, and you don't become a nanny if you are looking to maximize earnings) I have had to manage a full time nanny + few part time ones and it has been hard
2) need to start to socialize the kid who seems to really like playing with other kids, doing music "classes", etc
3) I thought there might be a cost advantage, but actually, there isn't. I am paying 30 per hour at the school which is more than I would pay to an additional nanny (unless i have to pay overtime)

Part time school because
1) my kid is not even 18 months old and does not eat well independently, and a long day in a school might just be hard
2) still need a nanny, and the nanny still needs full 40 hrs of work, part time quality nannies are hard to find. When kids start daycare, they get sick a lot, so for the first year need to have a person that can stay with a sick kid at home.

A short day program is perfect, because the kid eats at home and is not 'with strangers" for too long. But there is a limited supply of such programs, esp for under 2 set

Most "fancy part time nursery programs" tend to start at 2y o.
Locally, some daycares have a part time option via few days per week: Tuesdays and Thursdays for 10-11hrs each for example. I think this is less preferable because no continuity from day to day, a long day for a child who is very little still, and the hourly cost is a lot higher than for a full time daycare.

So once you apply all the filters, this 3 hrs per day part time school 25 blocks north (and near my partner's office) was the best option I found. I drop off the kid, nanny picks him up and stays until bed time. Nanny still has 40hrs. Kid has the same routine every day, getting socialized and loves the school, but eats at home. There is this annoying commute so once the kids turns two and there are more options available, we might reevaluate options.

As a bonus, this particular school had good reviews from parents whose kids aced admission tests to Hunter and G&T programs.

>>> socially people with walkers will get the sympathy vs a parent with child in the stroller. People aren't going to see this as older person with walker vs baby but vs parent of the baby.

yes, they seem to run the show and boss everyone around (while we pay for their social security and programs while trying to raise a family)
yesterday, there was an elderly black man with a walker on the bus. he had his walker collapsed and out of the way. What a considerate person. Vs the angry white lady that mocked me a day earlier. Some seniors have manners, but not enough of them.

>>>there's an entire thread dedicated to Riding a bus in New York City with your child or children. I know a little bit about this since I raised two children in Manhattan, and I can't ever once remember wasting a minute of my time on such a subject.

Maybe you forgot. At this point I barely remember the specifics of dealing with a newborn, and it has only been a year since that stage.

Yes every one knows not to mess with old lady/man with a cane or walker. He/She may hit you (but can't cause harm to your child - they know that) and no one will care unless you yourself are old. That is how it is and every one gets old and cranky.

Are you on board with the above now?

All the way back in the late 1980s there was a woman interviewing at various Real Estate firms in a wheelchair and anyone who said anything about difficulties showing walk-up apartments got sued. I smelled a rat, only asked one question in the interview ("When would you like to start"?) and dodged a bullet.

Thanks for the explanation, Krolik.

>> There is this annoying commute so once the kids turns two and there are more options available, we might reevaluate options.

It’s NYC. At age two, you give ‘em a Metrocard (or Apple Watch nowadays) and they commute themselves.

>>>It’s NYC. At age two, you give ‘em a Metrocard (or Apple Watch nowadays) and they commute themselves.

Basically my plan :-)