Two Northside Piers

well martintop, I'm not sure how you come up with these numbers for "average prices" and if they tell us anything about the quality of floors in Edge or NSP2. You agree, though, that a solid hardwood floor is generally preferable over an engineered floor?

"From there you’ll want to figure out the best type of flooring hardwood for your budget. A good strong natural hardwood is going to be your best option almost every time. The only problem is that they can be very expensive. But nothing will guarantee longevity in the same way. This is because natural hardwoods can resist scratching and other surface damage that can occur more easily on other types. That means no matter what type of activity from exercise, to moving furniture, you won’t have to worry about the look of your floor under the heavy usage. However, if you can’t afford a natural variety, you can always purchase an engineered flooring hardwood. This will enable you to cover any room in an attractive surface, without having to completely break the bank. However, engineered flooring hardwood isn’t of the same high quality, and won’t last as long as a natural variety. This is because they are essentially faked representations of real wood, and feature softer surfaces so they can be prone to scratching easily. They will still look fantastic, but will require extra cleaning, and you’ll also have to be careful about the activities you perform."

that's from a two minute google search...i have no idea what's cheaper or better, myself

The Unit prices I mentioned can be found with a quick internet research (see HomeDepot/Target prices for istance). I think there is no rule on what's better. Prices depends on the quality of the product. Solid oak flooring is more resistent but can also be cheap. For istance, nailed solid wood flooring was the standard for warehouses, cheap and heavy duty but noisy and subject to small deflections. Engineered walnut is more common for residential installations, it's weaker but like many soft flooring (bamboo etc.)can be more expensive and can give a better look. Again, it depends on the quality of the finish level and personal taste.

It seems we finally agree. My point all along was that using solid hardwood white oak in the Edge does not necessarily mean that their floor is cheaper or of a lower quality. It will depend on the paticular kind of flooring used. If your personal preference is for an exotic (or darker) wood look, that's another thing...

I personally think that the walnut in NSP2 does look beautiful but in terms of QUALITY I would prefer a solid hardwood.

@pollison. I agree,I saw both Edge and NSP and as an architect I would say that floor finishes seem in the same price range. Personal taste is priceless instead.

I would take solid hardwood floors over engineered floors any day.

Going to my first walk through this week. So excited! Since I respect everyone's advice so much I thought I'd get opinions--do you think I need a contractor/engineer to do the walk through with or is it enough to go in with a checklist? Thanks!!

No, you don't need an engineer/inspector for the walk through. The major mechanicals of the building are working fine, so you don't need those inspected. You can easily inspect the apartment's finishes, appliances, and electrical yourself. They do supply a fairly detailed checklist. But you have to go through the apartment and checklist slowly and methodically.

I brought masking tape to mark finish flaws (such as scratches and gouges on the floor and imperfections on the drywall), a night light to check outlets, switches, and GFCI's, and a cup to fill up with water and heat up in the microwave.

First, as soon as I entered, I started the dishwasher and washer/dryer so that they could go through a few cycles during the inspection. Fill your cup with water and heat it up in the microwave (some people bring microwave popcorn to test it). Inspect the stove and oven and the overhead vent. Then I inspected every kitchen cabinet, making sure finishes were OK and hinges/drawer slides operable. Run the hot water and operate the disposal. Check underneath the sink for leaks after running the water for a few minutes.

Test the HVAC system by turning the thermostat high (for heat) then low (for AC).

Then in each room, I carefully inspected the floor and marked EVERY gouge and scratch with a piece of masking tape, no matter how small and insignificant. Then I inspected the walls and moulding for imperfections. Similarly use the tape to mark defects that need to be corrected.

Test every outlet with the night light. Test the light switches by plugging the night light in the switched outlet and turning the switch on and off. Test every GFCI outlet by plugging the night light in the outlet and pushing the "TEST" button. Make sure the light turns off. Then push the "RESET" button and make sure the light comes back on.

In the bathroom, run the hot water in the tub and sink. Test the shower. Inspect under the sink for leaks. Flush the toilet. Check the GFCI outlet.

The NSP guy will go through all the manuals and demonstrate all the appliances. So as you are inspecting he will probably do his demonstrations. He's pretty patient and helpful, so TAKE YOUR TIME. In the end floor gouges and scratches were the only problems I found!

wow,excellent summary Lookpied. Very helpful. Couple questions (actually for me will be a different building, but similar finishes):

- how much total time did it take;
- how can they truly rectify serious floor scratches (and if it is a gouge...what can they do, and can you really insist that they pull some boards up); floor imperfections worry me the most (about any building)....
- did you have any issues with, or check for, things not hanging exactly straight (a closet door), or some moulding or counter peice or whatever not being perfectly parallel with whatever it is adjacent to, such as the stove or wall; this worries me because that sort of thing bugs me but is hard to fix, I would think, and I wonder what is considered reasonable
- you didn't mention walking every inch of the floor, line by line, foot after foot, to test for improper laying of the floor (such as gaps, squeaks), which I saw done on a quick inspection once by a real inspector pro...

Went to an open house the other day.. the agent told me they sold over 40% units now. He told me all the G line had been sold out> Do you guys think he meant the G line from phase one sold out or all the G line sold out at the whole site? I just think they only sold around 150 units out of 500, there is no way only fews one bedroom units left. I don't like that agent at all, he was so rude, the whole time he was showing me the open house he kept texting the whole time! Can I request another agent?

It took less than 45 minutes (1 BR). But I took a few minutes to enjoy the apartment and view, call my wife (thus checking cell phone reception!) and take some measurements for furniture. Floor gouges and scratches were easily rectified because engineered floor sections are easily removed and replaced. For traditional solid wood floors, I suppose scratches and minor blemishes could be sanded or removed with solvent and then retouched with varnish. I did go over the floors very closely foot by foot and examined as best I could at different angles (also the drywall). Mark everything. I can't say what is a reasonable request for correction, but if you don't have them record it you will have no option. If they say no to an imperfection then you can decide later how hard to push. I did check moulding fit, counter fit, counter cracks and did not find anything that bothered me. I think that superficial corrections shouldn't be a problem for them, such as redoing some moulding or filling in gaps.

bears2973, don't trust your agent, they're all liars. If you really wanna know how many units sold, get the numbers from Acris .

if that gline is the one bed (like 900sf, balcony, view of south edge building and also manhattan toward the north), they were saying it was all sold but one back in september, and that, due to having only one left, would not discount on it at all.

Wow, LookPied -- thank you so much for your thorough description of your walk through (definitely print worthy). You have no idea how helpful it will be for me and my husband! It's very exciting to have such helpful and thoughtful (soon to be) neighbors!!

Thanks again!

We are thinking about moving into Northside Piers 2. I have spoken to a NP1 resident who had great things to say about Toll Bros, the Buildings, the Management and the Process. Overall, with a good walk through and a fair price, this seems to me like a good buy. My random question to all of you is this: I've always wanted a piano in my apartment - is it reasonable to expect that the building construction is suitable to allow for an upright piano in my condo without bothering neighbors?

I want a piano too. Are there any restrictions on that?

@als: Of course you can have a piano in your apartment, as long as you play at reasonable hours and not for example at night....I didn't see any provision in the Condo Associations rules. There are some NYC regulations on "noisy" activities....but common sense rules applicable also to listening to the stereo,throwing a party etc.

Als - I have an upright in my place. No complaints yet but then, I don't have any neighbors to speak of yet!

thanks everyone, an upright would be awesome in there. a few more questions for the people out there:
1) the apartment I visited had only blank plates over the low voltage (tel/data) outlets, are those terminated during punchlist? where is the NID box in the apartment?
2) is the Toll Brothers punchlist sheet suitable or did most of you use your own list? what are the common issues seen during first walk through?
3) is there still monthly parking available onsite?
4) is there still bike parking available onsite?
5) does ATT wireless work on the Northwest side of the building?
6) is the electrical really high in this building? I keep hearing people talk about there here.
7) anyone know a good painter and a good contractor to add a door?

We used Anthony to put up a wall with a door to convert our studio to a small 1 BR. He did an excellent job. Reliable, great clean up, very professional final product.

Anthony
917 400-5098

www.123source.com
from service@nyc.com
Tel:718-981-2623

als:

The phone/data outlets are terminated with plugs. They are in pairs with one having a blank plate an the other having 2 jacks.

There is a cable/data/phone box in our coat closet.

They placed about 30 bike hooks in the basement, half of which are taken. I don't think they have opened up more bike hooks in the bike room. But no hooks are currently available in the bike room. I'm thinking they'll open those up once the building is full. I heard NSP1 had to have a lottery to distribute out their bike spaces. It's still limited to one space per apartment.

Can't tell you much about car parking or ATT cellphone reception on NW side. On the south side it's mediocre by the windows.

As for electricity bills, our heater doesn't turn on much now that more people have moved in around us. But our bill is not representative because we are here only parttime.

How are you guys putting up the curtains? One of my window has no wall space on one side, so I figured I need to mount it onto the ceiling. But the ceiling is concrete right? Is there a better way?

re: sold out lines and negotiations. Someone correct me if I am wrong...but when a building is sold - you determine your price based on comps in that line 10G v 11G. Not negotiating on "sold out" lines could really backfire on them. The market has picked up but the edge has a ton of inventory (right next door). What am I missing?

I am experiencing this issue (with a 1 Bedroom) where they say something is in contract and then they say the people changed their minds. It's a game, isn't it? They are creating demand. The fact that they sold out on 1NSP is proof of that.

LookPied, thanks for the info. I think the building is pretty cool. Anything else of note regarding staff, super, moving in, maintenance, daily noise, trash/recycling? Just trying to gather up info on things I may not remember to ask.

@thirteenstroke:
I was considering installing ceiling mounted tracks for both curtains and lights.
The apartments have a conrete slab but the underside is finished with gypsum. There should be at least 2" space (5/8" gypsum+1" metal channel) to secure the screws before touching the concrete.

Any flooding on the property from yesterday's rain?

Has anyone had problems with their countertops? Ours seems to be covered in a residue (most likely poor sealant). They look completely smeary. Not happy at all about it - we were told they just needed a wipe-over and its made no difference.

I didn't have a specific problem with my countertop, at least not yet, but I don't like the stone they have installed.

@ Martintop - I'd love for you to take a look at ours and let us know if the appearance/finish is different to yours :-)

@NSPTower2: I will move in next week. You are also very welcome to check mine.

als:

We have been very happy with the building and the building's management. The staff/super are great. Very responsive to our needs. Extremely courteous. Great communication (There is a building/resident web site thru BuildingLink.com where notices, delivery notification, doorman instructions, repair requests, and even resident announcements/ads are posted). Maintenance in the common areas is great. The amenities are perfect for us. Location is awesome. No regrets. If we had to do it over again, we'd buy here! (There are negatives as pointed out on this thread, but the positives greatly outweigh them.)

LookPied, thanks for the info. We are moving forward with it.

@martintop: Thanks so much! That's great info. Moving in this weekend!

has anybody experienced congestions at the gym during peak times yet? It seems small for over 200 units...also the bike rooms offer one bike per apartment, right? I got confused by an earlier post that said there is only 30 hooks for the whole building...

has anyone been able to figure out how to fix scratches on the floors in NSP2? we've been in for 2 weeks now and there are scratches everywhere, the floors scratch easily and often! for large scratches and dents we've used a filler that seems to work, but for the numerous little ones it seems that nothing works...

Northsidepiers 2, what filler did you use that works?

Northsidepiers2- I think a lot of people here feel your pain with the floors. They are complete crap and they should be ashamed of having put such soft floors down. We had people over and had everyone remove their shoes... at the end of the evening we noticed there were lots of tiny round indentations from somebody's high hills right at the entrance where everyone removed their shoes... so glad we decided to do that! I think the only way to really fix this problem would be to replace the floors.
For small scratches we bought a pack of wax pens ( the markers didn't work) at Bed Bath an Beyond and they work great but we have not been able to cover the larger dents... I would be curious to know what kind of filler you used as well.

NSPTower2- We have noticed the same spotty look on our counters... I think you are right to say they were not sealed properly as I noticed that the stone absorbs grease and liquids very easily and you have to really be quick at cleaning it or it will remain stained.

peppel- You didn't get confused... there are currently only about 40 hooks total for the entire building, most of which are already taken.

Is there a charge to use the bike hooks? And are they awarded through a lottery or on a "first come , first serve" basis?

Thank you FF2010. Hopefully there will be more hooks. We will ask for it.

we were hesitating between an apt at the Edge and here, but feel stronger about this building. the quality seems better here although I am concerned about what i read on flooring.
We are about to sign a contract for the M line. Is there anything we should know about this process? They seem to be tough on concessions. At the Edge I heard that owners negotiated terms of free common charges and free storage plus closing cost. Was anyone able to negotiate similar here?

peppel, My impression is that Northsidepiers is less flexible than Edge in regard to how much they are willing to negotiate. Final accepted offers seem to in the same ballpark range at both developments. Quality also seems to be fairly comparable. My view is that the Edge has somewhat of an edge, though, because of its better build quality. But it depends what your priorities are. For example, range hoods do not come standard at Edge, you have to negotiate for one (apparently, range hoods are not considered "green" and Edge tries to be a green building). So, despite their similarity both have pluses and minuses. Ultimately, in my view, you can't go wrong with either one.

My advice to anyone moving in is - make sure the big ticket items on your punchlist are resolved before closing. While Penmark are superb at dealing with minor issues (the super is fantastic), anything big is passed back to Toll Brothers - and lets just say they are not as proactive.

NSPTower2, thank you for this advice. We are scheduled for punchlist later this month; based on the advice up here I am keeping special attention to counter tops. Regarding the floors - are they really that soft? They seemed pretty robust when I walked the model, are people experiencing a lot of scuffs and dents with typical usage?

Hi there, I wanna know they list area on their website is interior or gross area? Have anyone gotten the appraisal report from bank which showed the area is the same as the list area?

American Walnut (if that's what it is) is somewhat softer than white or red oak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test

A floor person should be able to take a look and tell you what it is.

The filler we used was from Embers Glue and its the mahogany colour, it really does only fix the deep scratches, like quarter of an inch and greater. The worst are the shallow scratches that leave a lighter mark, those are the ones that are almost impossible to fix.

I havent commented on the Edge vs NSP argument up until now and at the end of the day its personal preference. I put bids in on similar properties in both buildings and found that the discounts and bargaining were very similar, roughly between 5 and 10% off list price. The Edge definitely has better amenities but NSP also has very good amenities, so that didnt bother me. However, when it came down to it the quality inside the apartments I thought there was no comparison, NSP is just clearly better, I dont think its even a point for discussion (huge caveat...except for the floors). Also I got an apartment in NSP with more space, better views and on a higher floor. I certainly dont want to offend anyone, but I found NSP to be better when I weigned the options, again like I said its personal preference. No I'm in I think its even better than I had assumed, great building, great staff, etc.

One question to throw out...when will they open the river walk in front of the Edge? Currently it is cordoned off.

polisson, thank you for your answer. We made our decision and are going for NSP, because we get better views and finishes for less $ in comparison. But as everyone says, it's a very personal decision, because we also really liked what we saw at the edge and the recreation part is incomparable.

We are encountering a strange rule though as we move along with the contract: TBI forces us to accept a letter of commitment for a mortgage by their financial subsidary. Apparently we have to accept this as a condition for buying? I have never heard of such thing. They explain that this can be seen as a backup in case our own financing falls through. However I was told that accepting the commitment letter binds us legally to the purchase of the unit even if TBI later decides not to approve us for financing after background checks. Theorethically this would mean that they force us into a binding agreement without guarantee (plus they do not even want to lock a rate for this). In the very unlikely but possible scenario that one cannot get financing from anyone else and TBI rejects one later as well, it would mean that one would would loose the downpayment from contract signing to them to be able to get out of the contract. I cannot believe that this is legal?
I assume all buyers at NSP had to sign for the same. Am I misunderstanding this procedure and how did you handle this?

peppel- I don't see your comment on here anymore... strange. Anyways, as per your question on financing we had to go through TBI's approval as well. And I believe that the exact opposite is true, meaning that if TBI cannot commit or give you the financing than you will not be bind to the contract anymore...there should be a mortgage contingency in the contract that you will sign. When we went into contract a year ago we had to have the bank commitment even before we could schedule a time to sign the contract. It's only after you sign contract that you are legally obligated to close, unless you are unable to get financing. Remember that TBI wants to make sure that you are actually able to close before they lock in a contract and has great interest in making sure that you will close, therefore they will do anything they can to ensure that. We looked into different lenders and ended up closing with TBI. They have very competitive rates and even though sometimes they are not very communicative (I believe that was due to the extent of time we had to wait before we could close) they get things done pretty quickly as the closing day approaches. Now that the building has reached the pre-sale requirements I think it will go much faster and you'll be able to close as soon as the underwriting process is done ( and that will take some time depending on the situation). Please check all this with your lawyer as well but this was the situation for us. I hope this helps.

We used this company for painting our apt, and were very happy with the results:

www.springspaintingco.com

Hi peppel, I agree with FF2010 that you should check this with your lawyer. But I do think your interpretation is correct and accepting the commitment letter effectively means that you are waiving your mortgage contingency.

BonacStyle, can you speak a bit more about your experience with the www.springspaintingco.com? Did they do many rooms? Supply the paint? Were you moved in when they did the work?

Thanks, ALS

Northside Piers2: Can you tell me where you got that filler (Embers Glue)? I googled it and can't find anything.
Thanks!

OBBP required a conditional approval from a lender that we would be eligible for a loan in the amount we were looking for; the contract then provided a financing contingency that allowed us out of the contract if we were unable to obtain funding from a lender with the caveat that, if we were unable to do so on our own, the sponsor had the opportunity to apply on our behalf, and we would cooperate, with their preferred lenders for a loan. Others that I spoke with were able to cap the interest rate that was allowable as part of such an application.

als -

Jamie painted our condo in Dumbo -

Jamie has a crew, tools and equipment. We specified how much prep / quality we wanted ( we have a newer condo and wanted some walls skimcoated as they were pretty rough construction grade ). Jamie worked off of our deadline and finished it before we moved in ( was vacant ). We know we paid up for some fine-tuning in terms of prep but it was worth it to have many of the small snags and imperfections eliminated.

We had a ton of custom colors and used Benjamin Moore Aura paints. Jamie ballparked our materials cost and we tallied it all up at the end, with the fixed labor charge he quoted us at the onset.

Overall it was a good experience and I highly recommend him to others. He also had insurance if your HOA requires it.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/williamsburg_waterfront_condo_residents_PtEt4zzFD2qR6QDJAt6kRO

Are your ConEd bills really that high?

I'm also curious about the allegations in these 2 articles: http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2011/03/24/disgruntled_northside_piers_buyers_declare_war_on_toll_brothers.php

Do current residents have these issues? Also, does anyone have details about which of the towers this is going on in? The articles don't specify.

This article is very concerning... I am guessing the tenants that are complaining are in tower 1 as there wouldn't have been enough time for all these issues to come to the surface in tower 2 yet. We live in the A line ( 2 Bedroom) in NSP2 and our coned bill was very high the first month, around $160 for 20 days but the next bill was about $150 for 32 days. We simply turned the heat off when we were not around and the bill dropped considerably... and the weather is a bit warmer this month. Though I did expect the electrical bills to be lower considering they were advertising these windows as being energy efficient. As far as window drafts we had one big one that was resolved immediately when they came to adjust the window and they explained that was due to the building settling. Also I believe that during our walkthrough our broker had noticed that the windows they used in NSP 2 were sturdier than tower 1 and Mark confirmed that. As per the rest of the complaints I guess we have been here just for a short while and wouldn't be able to tell if that applies to this building.

FF2010 - Any issues with water leaking through the windows during the thunderstorm yesterday, especially on the corner A unit on the water?

wpk- We had no leaking at all. Not even a week or then days ago when there was that extremely heavy storm, not a single drop. The only issue we had the next day was a pipe in the laundry closet above us that exploded and damaged our laundry room's ceiling and walls. According to management toll Brothers has promised to fix all the damage and apparently the issue was not rain related, just a defective pipe...

Yikes, this is a little scary - approaching closing. Can anyone say if these issues are in Tower 1 or Tower 2? Specifically the noise and mold issues (that guy sounds like he has a lot of problems BTW). Any all comments would be appreciated.

As someone with a bit of experience in PR, it's fairly evident (and disturbing) that the construction union has its paws all over these stories. In fact, they've barely even tried to disguise this, right down to the "non-union = inferior quality" argument to the supplied photo of the union rat in front of NSP.

And the construction union seems to have upped their media campaign lately, particularly in light of falling membership and the fact that they've seen their share of construction projects in NYC fall away (see http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/nyregion/19construction.html?scp=1&sq=construction+union&st=nyt).

It's disingenuous at best and supremely self-serving. But then, you couldn't expect anything less?

The article definitely does not reflect our experience. Our heater rarely turns on, and gets pretty warm on sunny days (southern exposure). Absolutely no drafts or leaks by the windows.

I noticed this article figured it'd be discussed here. I'm on the E line in tower 2, and my only complaint since moving in almost 4 months ago is that the floors scratch rather easily. My first month I kept the heat on throughout the night and the bill was $180. The next month I kept the heat off while sleeping, and my bill was around $100. Last month it was under $100.

Why wouldn't the Union want to promote the fact that this building was non-union and poorly built? With all the union bashing going on in the media why wouldn't the Union stand up when they were proven to be correct.

we are about to sign the contract and now this is bringing a bit of destabilization to the table. is anyone concerned that a public article like this one in the post will harm the building's or a unit's value? we are not concerned about the problems that are mentioned too much, because most of those can be fixed if they really exist and actually structurals and exteriors are under warranty we understood, but the image damage could potentially be a problem, no?
Is there anyone on this blog who can actually confirm any of these allegations?

I live in Tower 2 and have not experienced any draft or leaking from the windows in my unit. I had an issue where the unit above me overflowed their sink or tub which resulted in water dripping down through my ceiling. However, this was promptly repaired by the super with the wall repainted over several days to allow drying, priming and painting.

Reading the article in the Post, especially with the quote by the "Williamsburg Activist" it struck me as a pro-union slant with the claim that non-union equals lower quality regarding the issues for Tower 1. However, looking at that article in the NY Times, (see http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/nyregion/19construction.html?scp=1&sq=construction+union&st=nyt)it appears that Tower 1 was built with union labor and Tower 2 was built with non-union labor to save costs.

As mentioned several times, the only finishes that I think could have been of better quality is the flooring which seems to dent or scratch at the drop of a hat, literally. Otherwise I have had no issues with anything else in the unit.

does anyone know what the window specs/model/type are and how they compare to 80 met and the edge? I thought these buildings were using these insulated windows that result in much lower utilities than normal. I was in 80 met on a very hot day and was surprised at how cool the room was even without ac running.

anyone know what is the type of windows used in nsp2?.

I agree with hzoota. I also live in Tower2 and my only complain is the walnuut floor, beautiful but it scratches too easy.
@buyerbuyer: windows are excellent, perfect sound and thermal insulation. My bed is only 1' from the window and during the snowstorm two days ago I could barely hear the noise of the rain. Room stayed warm and no leaks whatsoever.

For the record, we moved in to our A line unit facing the river prior to the snow hurricane in late December. Although one could barely walk outside without being swept away by the blizzard, our corner unit withstood the storm and winds with aplomb. It was warm and quiet inside. Same for the many storms since then.

We’ve generally been very happy with our new home and the building is responsive and helpful. As this is the third new home I’ve owned, I know to expect some kinks that will need to be worked out. If true, the negative experiences referred to in the press are unfortunate but certainly not universal.

Tower 1 was built Union and Tower 2 was built non-Union so that part of the article is a fabrication. However, it is true that Toll Brothers made some mistakes in Tower 1. Tower 2, on the other hand, is excellent. Whatever mistakes were made in Tower 1 were corrected for Tower 2. Sorry Tower 1, you guys paid more, lost your views, don't have a pool like in Tower 2, and have to deal with shoddy construction. You're going to have a tough time reselling in the future.

corlearshook, really don't understand your comment. I don't think the construction union proved anything in the Post article; all it did was assert it's usual line of union = better.

For the record, have had no issues with with insulation in NSP2. Last power bill was $73. Used the AC in January (bill was $110) but have not had the need to in March and used it sporadically in Feb.

I heard they may have used Chinese sheet rock in NSP1. Yuck

peppel, I wouldn't be too concerned if you're not worried about these things yourself. The problems can hopefully be corrected, and the dust will settle.

thanks, i think so too. moving ahead.

I would be concerned buying into a building with a bad rep. All this negative press won't help when it comes to reselling.

We're in an A line too... couldn't be happier. As the many other folks (who actually live in tower 2 ;-) have posted - the only real gripe is the floors are very delicate. Otherwise we're very happy with the purchase. The building certainly doesn't have a bad rep... one sore union-biased article written about tower 1 (not tower 2) should not be a worry. Ask someone that lives here. Hope this helps!

like many of the other buyers from Tower 2 i have not noticed any problems relating to drafty windows or high power bills. i moved into a B line apartment (813 sf 1 bedroom + HO) in november and for the first partial month paid $61. in the subsequent months i paid $106 (december), january $91 (january), $81 (february). it's been a cold winter and my minimum temperature set to 72. when i first switched over to the hvac system i was surprised to pay over $40 for electricity since as a former renter, the heating cost was included in the monthly rent and controlled mostly by the building anyhow via radiators so there wasn't really individual controls such as in NSP. but i spoke to my friends w/ electric powered heating systems and they said this is actually not too bad.

i would agree that the excessive noise issue is annoying, but i've lived in nyc for over a decade and this has been an issue for almost every apartment i've lived in so i don't know if it's necessarily building specific and has to do w/ poor craftmanship. to the extent a neighbor is making a ton of noise at night i think it's fair to politely ask them to keep noise down during certain hours. i think the actual rules are governed by the condo rules.

i'm also pretty disappointed by the lack of cell phone reception for iphones on at&t and ended up having to switch providers to get service in my building (from at&t to sprint). but that i think, is probably not Toll's fault.

and finally my experience w/ Toll Brothers via Adam Gottlieb has been pretty positive. he has been fair and responsive to my reasonable requests since i went into contract on the building. and the building staff, especially ron the super, are really courteous and helpful.

i think there's a board meeting coming up so perhaps the 2NSP homeowners can discuss whether we should contact the news to correct certain inaccuracies that are being reported.

to the extent any fellow neighbors are experiencing specific issues w/ their units, i hope they're able to resolve them (Toll has a 1 year warranty from the move-in date to fix most problems that may arise within the first year of home ownership) but mischaracterizing the issues as building-wide problems seems inaccurate in my personal experience and i agree that it doesn't help new sales or protect future resale value if people decide to sell down the road.

NYC08, you live in NP2? Is there a lot of noise around you? Also, I think you could've gotten an ATT Fem-To-Cell (they call it MicroCell) to repeat the ATT signal in your apartment. Calls piggyback your internet connection with that device.

the windows in NP2 are the same model and make as the Edge made by Pioneer Window.

Is the New York Post pro-Union?

Do I need an attorney for this purchase?

@als, yes i live at 2NSP. thanks for the tip about at&t but i made the switch to sprint already. i actually lived at 1NSP too (rented) so had the bad reception issue for 2 years and decided enough was enough. at&t just started offering those microcells recently as a delayed response to customer complaints... still i'm sure your tip will help other people.

nyc08, well I was going to get that for our unit but we are facing West and reception is actually OK in the unit. Did you say there was noise transference in NP2? From above or from the sides?

NSP2 windows are the same as the Edge Rental building windows, not in the Edge Condo Towers. The Edge Condo tower windows are from OldCastle glass.

Lvy, I think NYS law requires that you be represented by an attorney. Whether state law requires it or not, I would highly recommend an attorney. The Offering Plan and Purchase Agreement are not straight forward documents nor easy to read.

An experienced real estate attorney can point out any issues in an offering plan or contract that a non-attorney may miss. While attorneys are not cheap, they can save you headaches in the long-run. Plus, you can defer some of that cost by negotiating for a certain amount in closing costs from the sponsor. At one point last year, a $10k closing credit was standard. I don't know what the market is now.

Lvy, NYS does not require that you have legal representation but it is money well spent if this is your first purchase. In that vein, we shopped around extensively for title companies and ended up using Toll's affiliated company. Approx. $1,000 saved and no conflict of interest as verified by our R.E. attorney. Hope this helps!

Does anyone know when the waterfront in front of the Edge will be opened? It currently is corndoned off but looks ready to use...

Hudson Meridian Construction Group, the construction management company that oversaw the construction of NSPT 2 is listed on line as being one of the largest 400 companies of its kind in America (top 100 in the NYC metropolitan area). Pioneer Window Manufacturing, the company that was chosen for NSPT 2 to replace Allen (or Allan?) which was the glazing company that had all the trouble with NSPT 1, is a 20 - 50 million a year company which I guess places it as a small to medium size glazing company in America. Has anyone seen a Consumer Reports type rating of commercial glazing companies and how their products compare to one another over time? Pioneer has been in business since the mid 80's.

I have a question for the Tower 2 residents. Is anyone having issues with mold, window, neighbor noise and insulation?

And speaking of windows. . .are the Pioneer windows used in Tower 2 single pane or thermal? Has anyone read anything about how Pioneer stacks up against the other commercial glazing companies in the US vis-a-vis durability of their windows across all rating categories (water/wind seal etc.)? From their website they have been in business since the mid-80's so there is enough history there to know how their product compares to some of the older and bigger glazing companies.

Pioneer windows are thermal double pane with air gap. I'm impressed by the performance in terms of noise and thermal insulation. I live in the B line facing south and so far I've never turned on the Heating, not even in those cold days last week.

Martintop, I have been looking at units on the southside and was concerned about the solar gain on sunny days. Recently, on warmer days, have you actually had to use a bit of AC in the afternoon? Or do you have curtains to block the sun when it is at its strongest mid afternoon? I believe the view corridor will be preserved to the south (although there is talk that Pfizer may sell their land on the river between Grand St. and N. 3rd which opens up possible development there). But, given the solar gain for units facing south in NSPT 2, I was actually thinking there might be a benefit to having some shade in the morning and afternoon from the looming neighbors, NSPT 1 and future NXPT 3.

inthehunt.
Yes, I agree solar shades are important, not only to reduce the heat,but also UVs, glare and to protect furniture,artwork, books etc. from color fading. I would have installed anyway regardless the exposure (south,north,affected or not by upcoming development).

We live at NSP2 and have had no issues with the windows or sound. Even with the rough winter we have had, drafts have not been an issue. When the temperature outside is above ~40, we have not needed to start the heating units. Hope this helps. The weekend when it was near 60, the temperature inside the apartment was 75. Hope this helps.

I have a few questions because of confusion from some of the discussions on this site or because of what sales people have stated and some comments on this site seem to refute:
1. Is NSPT 1 completely independent financially from NSPT 2? On one of the tours the salesperson said that people living in tower 1 get to use the amenities of tower 2 and vice-versa so this suggests they are sort of interconnected.
2. For those living in tower 2 have the common charges that you are paying accurate with respect to what Toll Bros. advertised?
3. Is the 421a tax abatement a 100% for sure thing for tower 2 and when is it going to be a reality?
4. Has the window cleaning issue (the right to hang a scaffold from the penthouse level) been worked out for tower 2 so that the condo association has the right (without having to gain special permission) to have the window cleaning contractor hang their scaffold from penthouse balconies?
5. Do I have the absolute right to rent to an outsider as long as they pass the condo board's criteria for renting? Or is it possible even if I had an appropriate tenant that the condo assoc. could say no?

inthehunt:

The towers are separate financially. There are two separate condo associations. Banks view them separately in terms of financing. They do share the amenities. I am not sure if each building pays a share for maintaining amenities. As things are still under Toll Brother's control (at least in NSP2) this might not have been formalized yet. A quick review of the offering plan refers to "Common Expenses" for maintaining "Common Elements" with nothing referring separately to the pool/weight room or amenities in NSP1. NSP2 will have its first Owner's Association meeting this month and this may be a topic to be explored.

Common charges are exactly as quoted.

421a abatement is 100% sure thing. We have not paid any taxes since we moved in (Dec). So if it is not in place right now nothing to worry about. Either Toll is paying the tax bill and will be refunded/credited on down the road, or taxes are abated already. (I've always been fuzzy on this abatement thing!)

I'm not aware of any window cleaning issues in NSP2. I had read about the issue in an NSP1 thread.

There have been several rentals already in the building. Obviously no approval from the Board was necessary, as there is none yet. The Offering Plan does spell out that potential sales or leases need to be brought to the Residential Board, which has "Right of First Refusal" meaning that the Board can purchase or rent the apartment itself for whatever reason (pretty standard for condos as I understand). There is no criteria/rules otherwise spelled out for selling or leasing.

Can you tell me the date/time for the Owner's Association meeting?

LookPied, Thanks kindly for your imput! Figuring out all of the issues and hurdles with this horse has been complicated. Nothing like getting feedback from someone already in the saddle.

hey all! We closed. I noticed that my MBR wall backs up against the neighbors MBR. I opened the CAT5 jack and saw theirs 6" away in the same place! Does anyone notice they can hear between their neighbors between the walls? It seems the wall is sheetrock>insulation>sheetrock so I'm not sure how good the separation is.

we are closing on a 2BR in the H line in a couple weeks. whats up with all the restrictions for lighting and decorating? what are ppl doing to install extra lighting as internal chaneling is prohibited
also, just to paint, it seems we need to pay penmark $250 just to "process" a decorating agreement. what are ppl's experience with this?
finally, any reco. contractors for curtain installations?