Two Northside Piers

Anyone know if NSP2 is still offering 10% discounts?

Also, do you think NSP2 will go through the same price reductions (20-30%) as NSP1?

Don't think they're offering it up anymore, however I'm told they're willing to consider "serious offers" and assist on closing costs. Ingenieur, you should keep in mind that the discounts they offered for NSP1 were on units that didn't move. The same will eventually be true for NSP2. If I decide to move ahead with NSP2, my strategy is to get a nice unit with good views, so I'll be able to resell in a couple of years. In order to get such a unit you should be willing to pay up for it - obviously not the listed price, but 20% off seems unrealistic to me given that the economy is slowly picking up. The last units (after 90% is sold) may go for 20% off, but again, you're likely ending up with a low floor/bad view property/illiquid .

but...NSP 3 will block more views of 2 eventually. Given where manhattan co-ops and condo's are starting to trade down to, NSP doesnt look so hot to me anymore. They are definitely great places, but I think that watrefront has some serious carnage coming up.

We were told at NSP that phase 3 will not happen for another 5-7 yrs. And the EDGE said the same thing about their phase 2.

So that said, if no new inventory will come online for at least 5 years, do you guys think that decreases the pressure to lower prices in both developments as drastically as was done with NSP1 (up to 35% off I believe)?

I think wmburg market seems to be settling into a range of +/- low 600 to 700 psf. to me the edge is a better bldg and will be at the upper part of this range, but i guess time will tell if they also have structural/quality issues as has been documented at nsp

Hi kiz10014,

"structural/quality issues" at NSP? Can you please elaborate? Do you have links?

Thanks.

I don't want to imply that I have any sort of insider knowledge, but from casual reading I have heard of complaints primarily related to nsp1 regarding improperly insulated windows, shoddy cabinets, wind tunnel when walking out of the lobby etc. see link:

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2008/08/01/new_development_gripewire_northside_piers_special_edition.php#more

about a year ago one of the nsp 1 residents was airing his dirty laundry here and made it seem that the issues ween't being adequately addressed by sponsor

Thanks kiz.

The EDGE does seem to be the higher quality development and their price per sq ft reflects this. But with the recent price cuts, NSP1, despite the aforementioned quality issues, seems to be the more compelling product.

It's in the same location with comparable amenities but at a more attractive price per sq ft. As the old adage goes, "buy the worst house in the best neighborhood".

40 contracts in 4 weeks?

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/williamsburg-condo-boom-has-not-gone-bust-at-buildings-like-northside-piers-and-the-edge

no way. this is a sellers story

Well, The Real Deal is a real estate website for the sell side, isn't it?

Toll brothers had a "spring sales event" a couple of weeks ago and was offering to pay almost all of the closing costs. Contracts had to be signed between April 24th and May 3rd. This is probably why they got so many contracts in that time period.

I may be heading out to check out studios at NP2 this weekend. Does anyone know if they're giving actual tours of the building itself and individual lines in the building or is it just the models still?

They give actual tours of the building

anyone know when NSP2 will open? i havent been able to get anything from the sales office -they cant commit to anything more than "end of summer" and that they start at the bottom and work up...thoughts? how long does it take to "work up"???

according to The Real Deal, closings won't begin until fall 2010

aka September

has anyone been able to reach or exceed 10% discount level? if so, how to approach sales staff?

They are not very flexible with the pricing and the sale staffs are very stuck up. That was the reason i moved forward with the Edge, not to mention they have better amenities and quality.

yeah i agree with scla61: sales staff is not helpful AT ALL at nsp. though toll bros stock has crashed 25% since april given the market outlook. things will need to change there. edge is now getting the message so i'm inclined to moving ahead with them as well.

scla61-
how flexible are the prices at the edge right now? any idea what they're willing to negotiate off list?

dwardcompton - see the posting of LookPied yesterday on the Edge thread
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/19014-the-edge-whats-the-current-pricing

Also, see my post from a couple of weeks ago on another Edge thread
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/21416-fresh-price-cuts-at-the-edge

which was picked up by Curbed's PriceChopper
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/07/02/price_cuts_at_williamsburgs_edge_go_up_to_14_percent.php

thanks, Skir

We were told by NSP sales that prices are negotiable 10-12% and actually found them to be helpful. Haven't made any offers yet at either place, but about to.

Evidence of what we already knew - Edge/NSP are not moving at the original ask prices.

I was told 2 NSP prices were non-negotiable and the sales staff was haughty and somewhat rude. They basically told me offering anything less than ask was a waste of time. This is not the type of market, especially in Wburg, to play hard to get.

The Edge was cooperative, offered closing concessions and was very willing to negotiate price. The Edge's recent price cuts give you a sense of what they are willing to negotiate. 2 NSP was much nicer than 1NSP, but imo the Edge had better finishes and amenities.

My suggestion - if you want to bid on NSP, then wait until they start closing. At that point they will want to move units similar to what is happening now at Edge. Same happened in downtown Brooklyn at Toren: intially "not negotiable" and a couple of months after closings started ask prices went down by up to 25% and even negotiable from that point.

Dwardcompton. They are negotiable, about 10-15% off of the asking price.

cool - thanks for the info. again, had a totally different experience at NSP2 - they are definitely flexible on price and were not at all rude. in fact, out of all of the places we've seen throughout the city (and we've been to a lot!), they were the most open about their flexibility to us. could just be the people we dealt with, but we've even been back to the building 5 times to check out the same places and new places and they've never given us a hard time about it.

Agree, staff has been wonderful to us. We've been looking at NSP2 for 18 months. We made an offer in Nov 2008 but were politely told no negotiations then. We visited multiple times since then and emailed the broker for updates whcih they answered promptly. We just came to an agreement on an apartment today. 10-15% off ask is a good goal. After looking for 3 years at NSP ( yes we started looking at NSP1 in 2007!) we can back to where we started.

so would you buy now at nsp with a better pick of apartments or would you wait until after closing for some larger discounts? same question for edge. we are looking for a large 1br or 2 br.

There will be more price cuts tho... Flexibility now is good, but it also indicates there is more to come moving in to the slow summer/fall and really slow winter season. The building is still 70% UNSOLD and so is Edge.

asdfasf1234 - i was thinking 'buy now' a couple of months ago but changed my mind. brooklyn condo history is repeating itself, look at what happened in downtown brooklyn or at one brooklyn bridge park, and now finally edge. i'm not enter into contract before closings start because (i) the developers can drag their feet as long as they like to start closing (ii) you cannot lock in your mortgage rate (iii) you're likely going to end up losing your equity before you even moved into your new apt.

We bought now because we wanted a relatively low 1BR but still with a view that will not be impacted much by phase 3. Those already are in limited supply. We are willing to pay a premium to get exactly what we want. 2BR's with view are plentiful and will probably be the candidates for further price cuts. But then the maintenance on 2BR's are way beyond our budget; so price cuts won't make a big difference in making them affordable for us. High 1BR's with views may sit a while but their lower maintenance may make them more marketable; so they may be able to hold up and sell quicker.

I agree that equity is at risk. Also some units may be rented as has happened at NSP1 a while back. We have discussed this in depth and are comfortable with the risks.

Skir-could you explain why the developer would want to delay closing if at least 30% of units are already sold?
LookPied-thank you for your advice

Fact of the matter is - you never really know how many units they've actually sold so far. If we should believe the brokers, both Edge and NSP have been 30% sold for over a year. There's no way to be sure but my judgment: unlikely. Because if that were the case they would have started closings months ago as was originally scheduled. Instead, things have been delayed as recorded on this thread (and surely not because of labor shortages). For you as a buyer, once you're in contract with your hard-earned savings out of the door there is nothing really you can do about it. Just hope that interest rates stay were they are that you're not under water on your mortgage before you move in. My analysis: no thanks. They've been on the market for two years now - they'll stay on the market with a lot of units for some time to come.

Skir,
Your concerns are valid. You could add things to a contract to address them: a) mortgage contingency saying that if you cannot qualify for a mortgage with x% down at y% interest then the contract is canceled and down payment is fully refunded b) A "drop dead" clause stating that if closings don't commence by a certain date then the contract is canceled and down payment is fully refunded c) specify that you won't close until at least 50% of units are in contract (thus allowing the best financing options) and you can give a deadline as well.
I think c) would be difficult to get in these large developments. We had this clause when we were under contract in a small development and exercised it on Monday.
a) and c) give you some protection against delays and if worded properly and with reasonable time frames are acceptable to sponsors nowadays.

LookPied - Thanks for the advice and I wish you the best. To me there is just no real upside to entering into a contract this early in the game in the current market. You're right that there are ways to contractually mitigate some of the risks, but the overall risk/reward trade-off doesn't seem compelling at all right now.

lookpied-were you able to get NSP to agree to any of the contract clauses you listed in your post? are you going into contract and what is expected move in date? all I got from the sales staff was some time in fall?

would there be anyway to check minimum % sold? doesn't the offering plan for the building only become effective once a certain % is sold?

We're negotiating a mortgage contingency and a drop dead clause as we speak. During the price negotiations they verbally agreed to a mortgage contingency. The caveat is that the contract will be cancelled only if TBI Mortgage (the mortgage arm of Toll Brothers) fails to give us a mortgage, and no other banks. Since it's a Toll Brother's company, approval will be alot easier than other banks and they will not require the 50% sold rule. The 50% rule will probably prevent most banks from approving mortgages, although NSP has 2 other "preferred lenders" which will probably not hold to the 50% rule either. I will be calling TBI to check on their rates.

We have 2 weeks to sign a contract...we'll see! No specific dates given for closing. Our situation is different because we are buying this as a pied-a-terre and are not in a rush.

Confirming %sold can be tricky as you are dependent on NSP to tell you. In a previous contract we had in a different development our lawyer checked with the sponsor's lawyer.

The offering plan becomes effective only after 30% are sold. That's probably the most common cause of delayed closings nowadays.

Ugly macro numbers hitting the wires today...

US Home-Buying Applications Sink to 13-Year Low
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38239511

Home Sellers Slashing Prices, While Banks Mow the Lawn
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38244093

@LookPied - how much were you able to negotiate down?

I like NSP2, but I think their askings are too high in today's real estate market. I'm eyeing this one unit in NSP2, and want to negotiate for 20% less asking. They will most likely not consider that a serious offer, but given only 30% sold after 1+ year, and no one knows when closing is, I'm holding back on making an offer.

I'm also very concerned about real estate in Williamsburg in general. The Domino sugar factory development will add 2,200 apt units the next 10 years on top of NSP3 and Edge phase 2 (200+ units each). Those are just waterfront properties, not counting all the smaller building in inland. Will there be THAT MANY people buying into Williamsburg? Will NSP and the Edge buildings hold the value later down the road when you have new buildings coming up left and right? Williamsburg is not Manhattan after all.

10%.
To get lower we would have had to been ready to walk away and weren't. We've been looking a while and visited numerous times even doing a hard hat tour in January 2009 with barely any walls. We have been discussing this apartment for over a year and we keep coming back to it. We are unfortunately emotionally invested.

Your concerns are very valid. Great questions, no answers. But concentrate on waterfront quality condos (Edge, NSP, 80 Met). There will be no other waterfront developments with 25year tax abatements. Domino will not have them. So if you narrow the market to waterfront developments with a 25 year tax abatement, this is it.

@LookPied - Thanks for the info. All the best wishes for you. I toured NSP2 3 times, and really liked the building, although not too crazy about the surroundings (still don't know how I feel about walking pass warehouses to get to subway). 25-year tax abatement is very attrative, definitely a big plus. I've seen some other new developments in Brooklyn and Queens, and those are not even close to the quality at NSP/Edge.

I know what you mean about the warehouses. I have made my wife (and at times with my kids) walk up and down N 5th St at night many visits. She's comfortable, but says she'll walk up N 6th st (busier and very active at night due to bars and restaurants). We otherwise like the grittiness.

Lookpied-congatulations. did you use a real estate agent to negotiate?
Hanakyo-which developments did you visit and what was wrong with them?

No agent. All through email to NSP broker. Just get a good lawyer for contract negotiations.

hanakyo - i share your concerns about williamsburg real estate. there surely is a market for the waterfront units but i expect that the sweet spot indeed is closer to 20% than 10% below current ask. based on the slow sales numbers. they offered 10% last winter already and sales didn't pick up... we'll see where they shake out... interesting to see real data points hitting SE once the Edge starts closing.

Just to add to the discussion. we liked NSP2 as well and did not go through a broker. we placed an offer approximately 15% below ask (reasoning was that NSP2 agents were implying that 10% would be reasonable offfer and since we were not using a broker we wanted the 6% that they would have had to pay the broker). We also tried to negotiate rate gaurantee and smaller down payment at closing. NSP2 came back with a reduction in price of less then 1-2%. I guess they thought we were not serious with our offer. We walked away...Hopefully we are right and they come down in the future...

They're good at marketing though at some point they'll have to bend. We walked at 10% for all the reasons mentioned above.

Does anyone know the actual % of people who have moved into NSP1? The sales office indicated that NSP1 is 90% sold, but I highly doubt the %...I walked by one evening (a Friday around 9pm) and only saw a handful of units with lights on.

@asdfasf1234 - I checked out the Santorini and Astoria Pointe in Astoria, 500 4th Avenue in Park Slope and be@Shermerhorn in Downtown Brooklyn. Lets just say I was not impressed.

shahvi23-brokers get 3% for bringing clients to new developments; that might be why they were unwilling to deal
hanakyo-you can check % apartments sold on ACRIS, search by party name KENT AVENUE PROPERTY 1-B LLC. I didn't count, but there are lots. Some buyers may be investors, or people buying for pied-a-terre, etc.

Thanks for the info asdfasf1234. I hope they still come down a bit more then around 7-10%. I just felt that their counter offer of 1-2% less then original ask was not done in good faith. Only time will tell.

I counted - 154 units sold in NSP1.

I talked with TBI Mortgage and confirmed that they do not require NSP2 to be 50% sold for mortgages and that interest rate and fees will be the same whether less than or greater than 50%. They quoted me a rate of 4.625% for a conforming loan. This is comparable to Bank of America on their website.

Lookpied- Did you get a GFE from TBI? If so, how does the fees compare to other banks you have.

No GFE. Just started the process.

Hanakyo-thanks for counting!

If NSP1 has 270 units like NSP2, that would be ~57%. Are the remaining units shadow invenory, sold through another LLC, etc.? Is there a way to find out?

NSP1 has 180 units.

Some NSP1 units were rented. They might still be under lease contracts.

If NSP1 has 26 units remaining (possibly some townhouses or the penthouse units), then I would not be concerned about NSP1 hurting prices of NSP2. I would be more concerned about the unsold inventory at the Edge and other developments hurting prices of NSP2 in the future. Is there anyway to get an accurate % of units sold at NSP2 or other buildings(i.e. not sales people #s)?

Any updates on when people will begin moving in here?

Thanks

i don't think anyone should worry about domino. it's way way off. but anyway, i own now in WB, and welcome all development because i think more people brings more people. it's the closest brooklyn nabe nearest to all in manhattan, on the waterfront, no projects west of the BQE, safe and full of wonderful and really special amenities. the biz's like the restaurants, stores, galleries, salons, bars, and music venues have grown organically. there's also a growing and thriving photo community with a major studio (roots) opening last year, so we're seeing manhattan based magazines and ad agencies coming into the area for daily work.
safety is not even a remote issue. it's very safe.
also, we have a child and have been thrilled with after school and weekend class options, and love our elementary school, PS84. it's a magnet school, so you don't have to be zoned for it, and it has an amazing dual language spanish program and should be adding a dual language French program in 2011.
i've posted this all before, but when i read doubts like on this thread about the area, i feel compelled to speak up. i've lived in many manhattan and brooklyn neighborhoods, and my almost 4 years here and been really great. have made more friends than i count, and simply enjoy being here.

I like the neighborhood too, but don't you think the supply of new condos will hurt property values in the short run? NSP2 has 270 and they are ~30% sold, as is the Edge with 565 units. There are many smaller projects like the 80/58 Met. It will take years to sell all of them. Why buy any condo when a few months later you can buy a newer shinier condo for less $$$? It was a big deal when waterfront property reached 750 psf and now you can find curbed posts showing condos at NSP with water views going for $618 psf.

The reason why you would want to buy at the Edge or NSP is for the views. So if you buy a unit that could potentially be blocked by a third tower, IMO you are throwing your money away. However, if you can afford a unit with an unobstructed view, I think it's a wise investment. And while I would like to think that this is my genius logic, the reality is that many people view it the same way. The most desirable units in both the Edge and NSP2 are taken (with the exceptions of some K lines and higher P and N lines in NSP2). You can hold out for those and hope that they will reduce the prices, but the chances of losing a good deal is high since the competition for them will be higher also.

I have a friend who signed a contract in NSP2 on the 20th Floor last year. She is expecting to close sometime Winter 2010/2011 with the lower floors still expected to start closing in August/September. She took me along for a tour and I must say I was a bit envious of her deal.

If you can afford it, I would say go for it even if you can only get 7-10% off. I've been looking at condos with sklyline views deeper in and I'm getting the same psf as NSP2 and the chances of having an obstructed view is even higher... It's sooo disheartening...

It just seems that nobody is willing to negotiate down and will wait until they are hard up and then just recoup investment by turning condos into rentals.

asdadf1234 - no one should be buying now for the short run. i'm thinking very long term personally. however, at least WB has a hopping rental market. it's a high demand for rentals here, so there's always that. the owner/investors in my bldg rent usually same day. there are not a lot of rentals in mine, but i've also watched rental bldgs rent out really fast.

wisco-I am buying for the long run but since Edge is closing now and NSP2 is closing in Sept, might be better to wait and see for me. I'd be happy with a 2BR, and those seem to be less popular in both.

housemouse-both the Edge and NSP2 are ~30% sold--are you implying ~70% of units in both buildings have bad/obstructed views? Developers don't release all the units in a building at once. There are units at NSP2 that have yet to be released. Will you friend still be happy 3 months from now if NSP2 releases units in the same line above or below her at 15-20% discount?

There is no way for a developer to "recoup investment by turning condos into rentals". Most developers can only rent a certain % of units and that is much less 70%. The only reason for the developer to rent out is to mitigate losses while waiting for the market to recover so they can sell those units.Further, the construction loan is usually due 12-18 months after closing and the Edge has missed its original close date by more that 1 year. IMHO, looking at other Brooklyn condos, what will happen is massive discounts after closing or foreclosure. From this board and from people that have bid/bought at both buildings, Edge is negotiable >15% and NSP2 >10%, though it's harder to get past that point. If you're not a broker/salesperson at one of these buildings, may I suggest looking at <3yr old resales further inland if you want skyline views and newish construction. They are usually from

> I am buying for the long run but since Edge is closing now and NSP2 is closing in Sept, might be better to wait and see for me. I'd be happy with a 2BR, and those seem to be less popular in both.

I couldn't agree more. It's just a matter of supply and demand. Demand is weak, supply is huge. I really see no point in buying now an play game with the developers when there's a pretty good probability they'll be discounting more once closings begin and we're moving into the winter season.

Totally agree with the sentiment regarding future price cuts post closing. While it is true NSP3 and Edge phase 2 will partially obstruct views for certain respective units, I'd think the architects were not dumb enough to completely block views (though perhaps they though buyers would be the dumb ones!) I haven't done the due diligence yet, but has anyone determined exactly how much of the view the south facing units at NSP2 will lose when NSP3 is built?
Here are two photos of the views from 12C taken from their website:
Southern view: http://tollbrothers.com/highrise/views/8606/tower2/NSP2_14-16FloorsA-B-CUnitsSouth.jpg
Southwest view: http://tollbrothers.com/highrise/views/8606/tower2/NSP2_12_19_b_c_d_line_southwestern.jpg

My guess is the southern pictures view remains but the southwest pictures view is blocked 50%? The sales person was a little vague but said you'd still be able to see a portion of the southern buildings.....

dmar- The southwest view is not a true representative of the view as you can also see the southern view from most south-west apts. But having been in those units and looking down at the plot where NSP3 is supposed to come up the southwest view would be blocked 80-100%.

I think in total if you look at what is still available (as per Toll Brothers website) then you are either dealing with low level floors with limited views, or southern exposure that would be affected by the third tower. Most units where the views are established and there are no 'ifs' have been sold, including most 'N', 'Y', 'H', 'M' and 'J' lines. Some 'P' and 'K' lines are still available but they will also be affected by the third tower. A risky '1 mil ' to invest, if not for obstructed view, then for the loss of light.

I'm speculating that NSP2 will negotiate lower on the southern side of the building than the 'N', 'Y', 'J' and 'G' lines on the north side of the building.

asdfasf1234 - I doubt she cares... all the units in her line are sold out. I think in the end if you are at peace with your negotiations and you believe you got a deal then who cares... My ideal would be riverfront development with skyline views as I think that this is still the best resale for the future. (And many Manhattan Condos don't have full skyline views, so I really believe there is an investment value in it). I can look more inland, but there is no guarantee that it's going to be unobstructed, or I can wait for newer developments and run the risk that these units will be priced even higher...

I dunno, if only I could read the future....

housemouse-Most developers, not just toll brothers, do not release all units in the building at the same time. There are only 22 active listings on streeteasy at NSP2. Even the sales office will agree that NSP2 is not 90+% sold and they have more than 22 units available. I'm sure NSP2 will also agree less than 50% sold. On the NSP website how many units are available? Greater than 135? If less, then there are some unreleased units! I'm sure even if all the released units in her line and the lines you mentioned above have sold, there are some soon to be released units in those lines available for >10% discount.

Many Manhattan condos do not have full skyline views..but they are in Manhattan. Even though I like Brooklyn and Queens, Manhattan (below 96th St) will command a premium price. And they didn't overbuild by as much there.

If you have to have water views in Williamsburg, what about Schafer Landing? There are often resales there, it is by the water and can't be obstructed, development is sold out so unlikely to be foreclosed on. The con is that it is very far from subway, but the building has shuttle bus service and a water taxi.

New units in Williamsburg are unlikely to be pr

asdfasf1234- You may very well be right. There are only 35 units listed on their website. I've primarily been interested in the 'N' and 'M' lines and in the last year I've seen them listed on the website and then removed. Are they sold? The sales staff tells me so... They could be lying, but in the end they still have the upper hand.

I'm in no rush to buy, which is in my advantage, but like everybody else I want to jump in at the right time. Experience has taught me though, that when you realize it's the right time, then you are usually too late...

Thanks for the advice on Schafer... I will check it out.

I know someone that bought at NSP2 - wanted to get in early to get unobstructed views. The prices for the same unit gets much higher as you go up, so there are only a few floors / lines that make sense to most people. That's why he purchased already.

He says staff was fine to deal with and he bought during a 10% special they were running but they wouldnt negotiate lower.

Also - he says that NSP2 likely won't start closing until October now...

housemouse-the sales staff can only sell units when the developer makes them availale, so not strictly lying. What I would do is write a nice email to the sales staff at the Edge/NSP describing what you're looking for (unit with unobstructed, full skyline views, specify whatever else you want) and ask them to email when/if such a unit becomes available. Good for you, good for them.

Schaefer Landing had some short sales and a 20th floor 2BR with unobstructed views went for 590 psf.
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/01/25/short_sale_success_at_schaefer_landing_as_clearance_sale_begins.php

bknewbie-agree about the sales staff being fine to deal with. however, as the discount becomes larger (15% according to some posters) don't the higher floors start to make more sense? Why are they delaying closing?

While not as experienced as some on here, I have been in plenty of new developments, and I am picky about what kind of unit I am interested in (view, or noisy street, etc.) and I have never had an experience where the sales person did not talk about released and non-released, to give a feel for what is not yet sold. Of course, that is only sensible. I have not been in nsp2, although I was in nsp1. In short, you can't depend on the website but when you talk to a sales office I have in all cases found that they are forthcoming about specific types of units if you ask.

Sch Landing is way too far to be part of what people generally mean when they talk about "williamsburg"...so its not a substitute product for NSP or Edge, simply not the same hood by a long shot.

on their website it says that the building is FHA approved now. does anyone know anything about this? is this something new? when we talked to the sales office they mentioned that they were looking into getting FHA approval, but I didn't know that it was finalized.

asdfasf1234...RE: why not wait for a higher floor with larger discounts...look on the website - 9c is $562k, 17c is $679k, 25c is $743k - that's a pretty drastic price difference for the same layout and even w/discounts, it seems that you'll be paying a lot more.

Anyone thinking about Schafer landing is nuts. There is NOTHING nearby. It's like living in harlem and saying that you live in manhattan. Some nice buildings? yeah. Anything around worth doing? nope.

buyerbuyer & bknewbie- I agree that the area around NSP/Edge is much nicer than around Schaefer Landing. Both Edge/NSP also have better transportation options, amenities, and finishes. I was just trying to suggest other buildings in Williamsburg with good river/skyline views, not saying the two should be comparable in psf. I wouldn't say there is nothing nearby Schafer--Peter Luger & other nice restaurants, bars, and clubs are there, even if the area is not as nice as North Williamsburg.

However, let's say your friend bought 8C with a 10% dicount and 9C is 15-18k more--wouldn't someone be better off buying 9C with a 15% discount?

I think there are two types of real estate buyers, those like bknewbie's friend and mine, that want to find something that fits their criteria in terms of views, locations, etc and that will pay a little more for it and then there are those that will compromise on views and location to get a better deal.

asdfasf1234- if I'm not mistaken, you fall in the latter category. That's not a knock on you, just a different way of approaching the market. And one that I fall into with my limited funds.

I think the romantic notion that the most desired apartments in NSP2 will go for deep discounts, is just that, a romantic notion.

Will NSP2 give discounts +15% in the future? Probably, but it won't be in the most desirable apts. (of which there are very few left).

asdfasf1234- I agree with you on the math when it comes to 8C and 9C, but then again, that's the southside of the building where the view is yet to be determined. That alone opens up a different negotiation strategy.

Any thoughts on the H line, and will Edge's phase 2 block the view?

In my opinion, the H line is great. I think the edge's phase two will block some view, but not much. There is an airshaft(?) structure next to the edge and the park and they can not build past that. Building regulations does not allow a high rise to be built within x amount of feet from the water, so they definitely can not build past that. If you're in the unit and anything you see to the right of that shaft could potentially be blocked. Which means you loose some of the Queensborough bridge from the queens side, and the view of Greenpoint. The major landmarks of the nyc skyline will still be there (ie. UN building, Chrysler, Empire). If I could I would buy it.

19G is my other favorite, downside it's a one bedroom, upside, it has a balcony.

Good luck.

The model And zoning approval both show exactly where the thir building goes believe ....so where is the mystery people seem to assume .

housemouse-if you're willing to pay up and don't care that someone got a better price later, that's fine. It's not a romantic notion that apartments with great views may go for a great discount later on. However, you have to be fast or you'll miss out. Example would be 7G in NSP1.

buyerbuyer-there are some views that may be blocked by EDGE construction or the new Domino conversion, but not NSP3. it's hard to tell.

housemouse & FutureBuyerNSP2, i believe the warehouse(aircraft) structure will go away (per EDGE sales rep) The park will exend beyond the warehouse to a small water pond (if you noticed).

Also, housemouse - do you think the G line will be blocked by EDGE II?

I am concerned about the L train, still.

Both Edge and NSP have models showing the future buildings, so it is quite clear what will or will not be blocked -- the only thing hard to visualize is exactly where the cutoff will be vis a vis manhattan, but you can certainly have a general idea as to whether the sweeping manhattan view will still be there. In many cases it will not.

how bad is the L train?

LookPied: you mentioned you were able to get 10% off... does that including any closing costs or did you get 10% in addition to closing costs?
I know most expect price cuts after closing start but for me a good portion of the units I like and can afford are gone so I'm going to try negotiating. Has anyone been able to get more than 10% off price + closings? I'd like to be stern about asking for a total of 15% off but at the same time if they're not discounting this much for others, I'll unfortunately have to bite the bullet and go to 10% or worse.

10% was price discount plus closing costs

re_guru:

Don't settle on less than 10%. They openly state that number.
Also there probably are some unreleased units, though possibly in higher floors. So keep that in mind.
If you can have a second unit as a back up, then you can play hardball and shoot for 15%. They don't hold grudges for walking away and then coming back later....We've done that.

it highly depends on the line of unit. i tried to place an offer on one unit, and it was gone the next day with a higher price. If the one you like isn't that popular, you could try.

LookPied- Thank you for your posts. What closing cost concessions are they willing to give and is it in the form of cash towards closing or waiving/offering to pay transfer taxes and the like? If cash towards closing, what % are they willing to give?

very useful for me and everyone else LookPied thanks!
asdf1234: I assume when LookPied said plus closing costs he probably got a 5% or 6% credit toward closing of whatever price he settled on. So if his 1BR was somewhere around 600k then he got 30k-36k toward closing.

It's cash towards closing: it will include transfer taxes and the like. We got them to pay 4 % of the purchase price in closing costs. The basic benefit is it frees up money for the down payment. They benefit by keeping the selling price high.

lookpied, since you've been so clear on this, -- could you say what you believe a comparable unit would have been at The Edge , i.e., what different ppsf (and roughly what ppsf did you get?).

Assuming nsp2 is lower than Edge, do people think the price differential makes at least some sense, and what will it ultimately be say in five years? I know there has been general discussion about these price differences but if lookpied has just bought then must have a concrete specific example in mind.

"So if his 1BR was somewhere around 600k then he got 30k-36k toward closing." i don't think it's that much on top of 10%. Even if, it would be included in the 10%

Our interest were in 1 BR units with a view that would have as little impact from future phases between 600-700K. In NSP that was the C line (listed 877/sq ft, maint 530/month): South and SW views with Phase 3 blocking part of the SW view. We did not like the north view in the units we saw as the Edge dominated the view and you'd have to crane your neck a bit to see Midtown.

At the Edge we asked the broker to show the units with views at 650K. In the south building, that was unit 17L listed at 755K (1256/sq ft with maintenance 500/month). The view was mainly of LES that would be blocked by NSP3 at the far left end and includes the Empire State Building at the other end. Other unit in the south building was 15B 710K 575/month 1031/sq ft but the view was dead on NSP and LES to the right with NSP3 blocking the view further. In the north building it was unit 10C at 730K (1061/sq ft with maint 573/sq ft). The view would be all of midtown to the far right and LES straight ahead, but Phase 2 will block all the view to the left. Of course the prices are negotiable. So I am assuming the prices could go below 700K. Interestingly the maintenance is much lower then quoted on SE and their website and very comparable to NSP. The Edges listing is very confusing. I would just go to their office (with an appointment) and have them show units with your criteria. Don't try to figure it out from their website or SE.

In the end NSP had the view we wanted. Their prices were much better. Maintenance is ending up very similar. I'm not sure how maintenance will hold up in the future in both buildings, but especially at the Edge.

we got one of the 1.5 bedrooms in NSP2, the V line. they gave a 10% reduction, and are paying half of the closing costs, all in all i think it ends up being slightly over $600/sf which in my opinion is a very good price for waterfront williamsburg w/ un-interrupted views that will never go away. plus there are only 4 of those units, so we were glad that we pulled the trigger at the right time.

this week we got a message saying that they will send the first letters out w/ regards to closings... it seems that we'll be able to close and move in in october....

uu82, did the message you received regarding closings in October indicate which floors would close first? Did it indicate when the second round of closings would occur?

Rembrandt, we got an email saying that a letter will arrive this week. Have not received the actual letter yet, will let you know once we get it. We are on the lower floors, and I'd not be surprised to see that those are the first ones to close...

uu82, much appreciated. Thanks.

We were told that closings would occur for the lower floors first, then upwards sequentially, with the initial group of closings encompassing floors 1 through 7 or 8, followed by the next group of floors and so on.

I really do not see how closings can begin in September or October. Each day see a lot of deconstruction going on in the 2nd tower. Specifically, torn out dry wall and wall studs. There are days when the entire courtyard is an ocean of trash bins brimming over with these torn out materials. Clearly something went wrong in the building, maybe an explanation for the delay in the TCOs... I keep asking the staff in the first tower to see if anyone has more details, but the developer is excellent at keeping its secrets. I'm also a buyer in 2NSP, it'd be great to move in sooner rather than later, but I just don't see it happening in the time period being stated.