Two Northside Piers

@ antipodope I am not sure I agree with you. A-line, B-line, C-line will most assuredly lose their Williamsburg Bridge, Manhattan Bridge, and Brooklyn Bridge view once Tower 3 is constructed. I do think C-line, D-, E-, and F- will have southern views, but C-line will likely see southern brooklyn, and more of the south southwest view will come in line towards the south-facing easterly side of Tower 2.

@ bknewbie I am not sure what you're talking about. We pay taxes on purchase price. The concession amount is not written off as loss by TB. Are you thinking of short sales where any amount the mortgage holder writes-off is taxable as income to the Seller?

@WilliamsburgNYC-I think bknewbie is asking whether the cash towards closing/seller pays closing costs that TB is giving buyers would be taxable as personal income. For example, if someone rec'd 20k towards closing, would that 20k be taxable? My impression is that it would not be, although it reduces the cost basis of your home price purchase, although your taxes might be higher on resale. If you pay 500k and rec. 20k cash back and later resell for 550k, you would be taxed on 70k = 550k - (500k+20k).

http://www.realestateabc.com/taxes/deductible1.htm
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p530.pdf
(see page 10 of above)

sorry meant to say-- "For example, if someone rec'd 20k towards closing, would that 20k be taxable AS PERSONAL INCOME?

Also meant to say,"If you pay 500k (INCLUDING YOUR CLOSING COSTS) and rec. 20k cash back and later resell for 550k, you would be taxed on 70k = 550k - (500k-20k). Appologies, so bad at typing today.
Basically the cash you receive at closing is considered a discount to the purchase price.

WilliamsburgNYC:

C line will retain the whole view of the Willaimsburg Bridge. It will lose the northern 1/2 or 1/3 of the Manhattan downtown skyline and the LES.

A and B lines will lose more of the downtown skyline as they will be closer to Tower 3.

also when the sales people tell you lines are sold out--This post from 7 weeks ago, where poster was told M & N lines were sold out--compare current availability on SE (24M & 20M) still available. and what % have they really sold? I know sales office is saying 40% but sponsors/sales office giving you the real % sold is the exception, not the rule at new developments.

housemouse
about 7 weeks ago
ignore this person
report abuse Most units where the views are established and there are no 'ifs' have been sold, including most 'N', 'Y', 'H', 'M' and 'J' lines. Some 'P' and 'K' lines are still available but they will also be affected by the third tower. A risky '1 mil ' to invest, if not for obstructed view, then for the loss of light.

I'm speculating that NSP2 will negotiate lower on the southern side of the building than the 'N', 'Y', 'J' and 'G' lines on the north side of the building.

asdfasf1234 - I doubt she cares... all the units in her line are sold out. I think in the end if you are at peace with your negotiations and you believe you got a deal then who cares... My ideal would be riverfront development with skyline views as I think that this is still the best resale for the future. (And many Manhattan Condos don't have full skyline views, so I really believe there is an investment value in it). I can look more inland, but there is no guarantee that it's going to be unobstructed, or I can wait for newer developments and run the risk that these units will be priced even higher...

I dunno, if only I could read the future....

Has anyone taken a look at the "A" line condos (South West facing).

We put in a bid for 8A, however our attorney is really concerned with the freedom the developer has with tower 3. Basically they can move, change the height, widen the base, reposition etc. the tower without any recourse). We knew that the S/W view would change, but our concern is if they widen the base (or change its 6 story height), it would completely block out the westerly view - which they are charging an additional 75k for.

We're curious to know if anyone else has looked at (or bid on) an A line and what they've been told by the developer. Thanks!

NSPTower2 - please email me - my username at gmail

NSPTower2: I looked at 8A and ended up purchasing on a lower floor. My opinion based partially on sales office comments and my own research, but here's my take. Currently the low building that is connected to Tower 3 is designed to go 6 floors so 8A should clear it, hence the price difference. However you are right, they could build higher. Even with more height my impression is that the living room will be partially obstructed at worst with the northern most window of the living room allowing for a vantage point to the Empire State building and uptown. The Master BR will likely have unobstructed views. My conclusion is based on the model in the sales office combined with the fact that the pier limits that low building from creeping north. I personally thought that the 75K difference was not worth it since it included an element of uncertainty (height of low building) and settled for the partial view because I felt that any partial view of mid town manhattan and a probable unobstructed view of the Empire State building from the bedroom had sufficient resale value and I could personally live with it. On the southern end, I think there will be some views of the WB bridge visible in the space between 184 Kent and Tower 3, but again obstructed from the second BR unless the footprint of Tower 3 widens in the southern direction. Again, good enough for me, but strictly a matter of preference.

Has anyone asked for a mortgage contingency with a lender other than TBI? I'd rather arrange my own lender however TB seem pretty reluctant to give anything other than TBI contingency.

We didn't even try to broaden the mortgage contingency beyond TBI. There were a few items with the contingency that we tried to add and they steadfastly refused to add them. They are pretty tough negotiators.

When I bought my apartment in October last year I had a mortgage commitment with Citibank that was approved. However this expired in May this year and I changed to TBI. As of lately they had to change this to an FHA approved mortgage since they can't find PMI for people who have put 10% down. Anyone else have this problem?

I have to ask... Has anyone received a closing notification yet? Someone had speculated that initial closing notifications were expected to be sent by TB last week. I'm on the 6th floor, but nothing yet.

@ GusGus... That doesn't sound good at all. I hadn't heard that at all. I made a referral who is also buying at 2 NSP, has a commitment with TBI and BoA with 10% down, but there hasn't been any discussion yet about switching him to an FHA loan. Thanks for the update, I'll share with him so he can double check to be sure everything is in order.

I had a commitment with TBI as well with 10% down & they've now switched me over to a FHA due to the PMI issue. TBI has been great to deal with though.

I'm above the 10th floor and haven't received a notice of closings yet...hopefully the lower floors start soon!

Don't hope for closing notices too soon. 30 year mortgage will be 4% in November or early December if the economy does not turn around, as yesterday the Fed officially hinted toward basically printing more money. We may never know or see the bottom in real house prices for the next few years, but at least 2 NSP closings will be at a great time to obtain a mortgage! This could be a solid $150 monthly savings as opposed to the 4.7% rate I was expecting 3 months ago. Of course a 4% mortgage could become the standard going forward, but as of right now the timing seems ideal. The 8k tax credit is a small incentive to buy compared to a 0.5% to 1.0% drop in mortgage rates which should really spur demand. If not, we're all doomed :(

re_guru I couldn't agree with you more, and your point is well stated. For comparison, my commitment is 4.875% from July, 2010. I asked TBI what the rate would be about two weeks ago if I were locking in and closing and it was 4.375%, a whole .50% decrease! That's before any potential buying down of points. Yeah folks, this is huge. I could live with some value fluctuation, since I'm moving to my 2NSP home longterm, and interests rates obviously have a larger impact long term since the costs of the loan are in the $100,000s based upon these .50-1.00% fluctuations.

Williamsburg NYC. On a $500,000 loan, the difference between 4.875% and 4.375% is $149/month or $1,795/year which would translate into approximately $54,000 in savings over 30 years.

A) I highly doubt you'll own this apartment for 30 years.
B) I have a feeling your loan amount is probably less than $500,000 so you'll save even less.

My point: Your $100,000s in savings projection is ridiculous!

@ Lance1 Thanks for the details. My loan is higher than your example. In any case, good to know your opinion that I'm ridiculous. Was there anything else you needed to say, or was that all. Just asking...

to calculate the savings/additional cost due to a rate change, look at how much it would cost in points to buy your rate down 0.50%. 1 point = 1% of loan value and your rate USUALLY goes down an eighth of a % per point on a 30 year. using the example above, you would need to buy 4 points to take the loan from 4.875% to 4.375%. On a 500k loan, that would be 20k. Two reasons for this smaller $ amount are:
1) 20k paid upfront rather than over the life of the loan
2) most people do not have the mortgage for 30 years, but will sell, refi, or pay off mortgage.

WilliamsburgNYC. What is your loan amount? Is it over $1M? 2M? And, I didn't say you're ridiculous. I said your projection sounds ridiculous.

@ Lance1 I should have been more precise, Following the thread that we should not be in a rush because there is a chance, albeit small, of rates going lower than 4.375% to perhaps 4%, maybe a little lower, at that extreme my 7-figure loan cost would certainly deliver $100K savings. Here's hoping that we all are able to reap such a reward, big or small.

@asdfasf1234 4.375% was quoted without points :)

Anyone else being told for the past 3-4 weeks that the TCO is definitely coming THIS week? LOL

LOL. I was just told again by a member of the construction team who presumably is in the know, "...TCO any day...".

@ All... I spoke too soon, just moments ago a friend forwarded the TCO for 2 Northside Piers issued by NYC Dept of Buildings dated 22Sept2010, covering all first floor amenties, and residential units for floors 2-15.

WilliamsburgNYC, could you please forward me a copy of the TCO? Would greatly appreciate it.

jleifstein@gmail.com

Thank you.

From this site: http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/PropertyProfileOverviewServlet?boro=3&houseno=2&street=northside+piers&go2=+GO+&requestid=0

click "View Certificates of Occupancy"

Thank you WilliamsburgNYC, this is realy exciting news, looking forward to getting the 30 closing notice.

Best luck to all.

Thank you, WilliamsburgNYC.

Check out the Daily News today - small feature on Williamsburg with mention of NSP. Nothing at all fantastic - no Wburg secrets unveiled, but figured I'd share.

WilliamsburgNYC thx for the exciting info!

bknewbie I wasn't able to locate the Daily News article...do you have the link by any chance?

Anyone know the nearest grocery store to the project? they seem to be scarce around there....

@ njbuyer Fresh Direct is very popular among the residents of 1 NSP, will likely remain the same for 2 NSP. Otherwise, closest actual grocery is Tops on the Waterfront on North 6th. I stopped shopping there after my 2nd carton of within date milk made me sick.

agree completely, do not recommend tops for fresh produce, the quality is really sub-par. would be great if they opened up a real supermarket in wb, like whole foods, trader joes, d'agostino's or even gristedes. the duane reade downstairs does have milk and basic groceries if you're in a bind but it's really a pharmacy/ convenience store. i wonder if people signed a neighborhood petition if the stores would come closer to the waterfront...

article: http://www.nydailynews.com/real_estate/2010/09/24/2010-09-24_the_williamsburg_special_from_hipster_haven_to_hotspot_this_nabe_is_an_nyc_real_.html

Tops reviews: http://www.yelp.com/biz/tops-on-the-waterfront-brooklyn
The edge was supposedly close to getting a grocery store in its huge retail space a long time ago, but who knows if that will ever happen. They're currently looking for $45/sqft which is pretty high. On the bright side the local businesses should really boom from the influx of 250 new households and about 400+ residents by years end.

Thank you all for the information you share.

Has anyone received a closing notice yet?

I received a letter dated Sept 22 which said Toll Brothers was expecting a TCO any day now and those on the lower floors should really consider getting a mortgage. Perhaps you can call it the notice to the closing notice? It did say closings are planned for October so if you're on floors 1-6, and given the TCO is actually filed with the DOB, I guess you can interpret it as a closing notice. It's basically the end of September, so if they plan on closing in October, you'll need an official closing notice in the next 3 days or that letter from a week ago is what they consider closing notice...

Insurance...anyone have a good broker that knows condo insurance? My broker from LI is a moron and had no clue what she quoted me for.

I was told closing notices are being prepared by the TB Corporate Office and was expecting them this week. As for insurance that is a good question - I wouldn't mind a referral either.

WiliamsburgNYC: You may want to contact your representative at TBI Mortgage. It appears that the quote you received of 4.375% is incorrect. Your 7 figure loan will actually be closer to 4.875% or more.

what kind of rates are you guys getting from TBI any luck with other lenders?

@ Lance1 Thank you, I am watching the rates on a daily basis since there's been quite a bit of buzz and conjecture that the Fed will begin a new round of quantitative easing as soon as the next FOMC November 2nd, I haven't locked anything so you're right that the rate isn't guaranteed at 4.375%, or for that matter 4.875%, it's anyone's guess. I'm crossing my fingers that I do not hastily get locked into a rate that will then force me to seek alternative financing...

Do you know if there's a process that can be followed to break a lock, and then establish a new lock? Are you a mortgage broker?

@bknewbie, @ njbuyer Have you owned a condo before in NYC? The condo association carries insurance on the building (of course Residents pay their condo fees, so indirectly we pay for that too). You'll need insurance to cover your property, injury to guests in your home. I called a local agent in Brooklyn with Allstate. They ask you questions about replacement cost, value of your things, etc., and then you pay your premium. The only thing I am less certain of is the question on flood insurance, I am not 100% sure if this is packaged into the insurnace the condo association carries, or if owners need to obtain some sort of separate policy. Anyone?

I've a question about the offer process. I've been told if I make an offer and Toll Bros accept, I have to pay a fee to hold that offer. Does this legally bind me to the offer?

antipodope what type of fee? Once you agree to a verbal offer you have to pay $200 to get the offering plan and that holds the unit while you negotiate terms of the contract. That amount is refundable if you enter into contract and/or return the plan to the sales office. Perhaps that's what you are referring to?

And no that does not legally bind you until you sign the contract and make the downpayment.

Ok, thanks njbuyer, that answers my question exactly.

Btw, is anyone buying to invest and rent out, rather than buy to live in? I'm interested in the motivations for people looking to buy, being in a position where it could be either way for me.

We are buying to live there...Good luck with your decision.

williamsburgNYC - flood insurance is another policy. we have it through USAA. you have to get it yourself for your own belongings and the interior.

Our closing notice (for 8E) is on it's way. We live in Canada, so Toll Brothers contacted us by email to give us a heads-up (and then we contacted them by telephone). The date for the closing was originally scheduled for October 29th - we re-scheduled it to happen on November 29th to allow us to make flight arrangements and such. This should allow someone else to have their closing date moved up.

Good luck Snark. We got a call too for Nov 1 and prefer an Oct date so maybe we'll get yours :)

As for insurance our understanding is you just need to insure your belongings and liability - almost liek a renters type coverage. The building has good coverage for everything else. In fact even TBI Mortgage said no insurance is required to close in this building. Regarding flood insurance can anyone explain why a unit owner would need that..how can any of the floors with units get flooded?

Thanks.

if you need condo insurance with great coverage options and premiums call Alwex Inc at 212-962-7930. We are a local NYC broker specializing in condo insurance. Ask for Harvey or Jeff for your no obligation consultation and quotes.

I viewed both the Edge and 2 NSP 1BRs in the $600-$750K range today and here are my first impressions in a nutshell.

Edge - smaller, more expensive, but higher quality.
2NSP - larger, cheaper, but lower quality.

All the available 1BR units I saw today suffered (or will eventually suffer once 3NSP and Edge phase 2 begins) from partially obstructed views. It wasn't a backbreaker, but still....it wasn't the mindblowing views that all the marketing chatter made it out to be. The Edge seemed to have a clear edge (no pun intended) in terms of amenities given the RAW state 2NSP's is in. As a prospective buyer, this is a tough call because both have their pros and cons but if I had to pick a winner right this minute, I would pick the Edge. I have a feeling it will take multiple viewings to really make a definitive decision but I was wondering if what others' takeaways were from their viewing experiences of both sites. Any comments?

salvydicopa: In regards to the condo interiors, what is higher quality at the Edge? Please be specific

I just noticed that the quality, fit and finish of the materials and fixtures used by the Edge were of higher quality than 2NSP. I dunno if I can give you a more technical breakdown so that's why I want to go back there again next weekend and give them extra scrutiny. Sorry if this is too subjective for you but that was my initial assessment. I've heard about about how 1NSP suffered from some quality issues so I confess that does make me skittish about Toll Brothers. One more thing, I noticed that 2NSP's elevators seemed on the smallish side. I realize it is still under construction but I'm wondering how moving in day is gonna work out when the elevators are the size of a closet. Normally I would not be nitpicky as this but when you're talking about a major life decision such as this, leave no stone unturned right?

salvydicopa, this may have been only a first impression but I'd say it's dead-on.

Personally, more units at NSP2 seem to have a very floor to ceiling glass feel, which I'm not wild about. To me that overall "feel', which differs from unit to unit, was more important than worrying about the cabinets, or floors. One thing that is not so great at the Edge (and I didn't test at NSP2): the sound insulation in the walls between units isn't very good (based on a practical check), and might be something of a problem depending on your neighbor. Price is another thing -- nsp2 is basically at least 10% cheaper.

I checked out both a 2 bedroom at the Edge and a 2 bedroom at Northside Piers. The fixtures seemed pretty much the same in both buildings but one thing was noticably different: Huge square footage inflation at the Edge! I didnt come in there with a measuring tape but the 2 bedroom at the Edge was very tight while the one at Northside Piers felt much more spacious. Sure, one can say the elevator is smaller at Northside Piers and the amenties aren't as good as the Edge but it all comes down to one thing: Price. At the time, I estimated that the Edge was about 25% more expensive than Northside Piers for a much smaller unit.

Every buyer needs to do their own due diligence. Having said that, we also looked at buying at the Edge but decided instead on 2NSP based on the build quality and overall feel. As soon as you walk in to any of the units, one notices a discernible solid quality to the construction and an intelligence in the details. They are beautifully designed living spaces with lots of light. The 2NSP units felt more like homes that mere apartments. Understated elegance.

All these varied opinions about Edge vs NSP make me wonder (regardless of whatever any one of us may think) whether the pretty large price differential at the Edge will exist say five years from now in the general re-sale market. Or will the buildings be considered more or less the same with prices differing according to view, size, floor, and other particular unit issues.......

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 2NSP is by no means a dump. The perceived gap in quality is not that big, but it does concern me from a livability and resale perspective. As per Lance1, the difference in space between a 2NSP 1BR vs an Edge 1BR was noticeable. The Edge felt so cramped in comparison! I'm going back next weekend for another walkthrough. The salesperson said that the list price is still negotiable so let's see how far I can push them to more meaningful price levels.

salvydicopa - they are both very attractive buildings and apartments. My wife and I were a split decision. I favored the larger layout and she favored the amenities and what she experienced as a higher quality of finish. I think it will come down to a matter of personal preference and whether the lower sf cost at NSP2 matters to you.

To restate my point (or worry..): is it plausible that say five or eight years from now The Edge will command a 10% or more premium over NSP2 IF AS OF TODAY the sincere, uncommitted shoppers posting are kind of torn as to which is better. .....

I like the Edge and it clearly has nicer amenities, but ultimately all I really cared about was being in prime Wburg with a city view. The 10+% price difference is definitely the main reason why the NSP towers have ~100 more units in contract/sold than the Edge's towers. I also feel at ease knowing Toll Brothers financial situation. I can't justify spending $50+k more for a comparable 1BR just because I like the basketball court and finishes- and for the record I found the difference in finishes for the 1BR units to be negligible... Either way both developments are nice alternatives to an expensive Manhattan and the 25 year tax abatements will keep them ahead of future competition for the next decade.

We toured The Edge and 2 NSP twice and looked at various two bedroom apartments. The Edge's layouts, almost without fail, were awful. Spaces weren't built for entertaining more than two other people and are definitely not built with a family in mind. The closets in the Edge are extremely small unless you're willing to take a unit with a walk in closet that (a) takes up 30% of the master bedroom space and (b) is awkwardly built around existing structural instances. Further, the doors and hardware used to keep them closed are extremely cheap and feel it. We slammed several doors into the walls trying to wrench them open. Some out the kitchen layouts in the Edge were better thought out than in NSP, but the overall impression that the Edge has higher quality just wasn't there when we actually compared apples to apples.

Does anyone know what floors are closing in late Oct/early Nov? Did anyone receive a closing date who bought an apt above the 9th floor? I see their TCO is good for floors 2-15.

We also looked at both the edge and NSP2 2 bedrooms and ended up buying at NSP2. I agree with the fact that the edge offers better amenities and the finishes seemed a bit nicer... but I also agree that the units we saw have very small closets and felt very cramped ( not to mention I personally hated the big heather/AC in the second bedroom). With all that being said, considering that the views are the same, the layouts much nicer and open at a lower price per sf we felt that even though we weren't crazy about the finishes (especially after seeing our actual unit and where they have cut some corners!) we could still improve or change them with the money we saved per sf!!! And BTW we bought a much larger apt, 6 floors higher for the same price that the edge was asking for a very tight 2 bedroom. We compared Units C&D at the Edge to Units A&H at NSP2 and ended up buying Unit A. One major point though that I feel the edge has over NSP is their sales strategy and the sales team, I felt that the way they present their product is much more professional and appealing (like model units decor and furniture style) and makes you feel that they really believe in their buildings. At NSP courtesy and costumer service don't seem to matter at all, they are not willing to help or accommodate you in any way and I felt they didn't even bother trying to sell you their product! I find them rather rude and disorganized and had it not been for our broker and the value of the apt ( who is amazing and on top of her game) I think we may have not bought this apartment. I hope this helps out some of the prospective buyers... Has anyone else received the one month notice for closing? I am also curious if anyone has seen their unit completed and was wondering if you are satisfied with the end result...

We received a notice for floor 3 and yes we saw our unit 99% done and were very pleased with it...having said they we didn't look at The Edge because we were at a very low price point and are excited to get into the area on the water even if it is "ground Floor".

FF2010 - agree with your comment regarding the HVAC wall unit in the Edge. You'd think for such a luxury themed apartment they would spring for a full-on central air/heat unit. The HVAC wall unit in the Edge makes me feel like I'm back in Dormandy Courts. Yuck. 2NSP units all have central air so that is a big advantage from a resale and energy efficiency perspective (unless you live in a studio). I just wish the amenities weren't in such a raw state because I have to mentally get over how nice the Edge's is compared to 2NSP.

Anybody

Sorry about the last post. But does anybody recommend an inspector for a walkthrough?

FF2010 - I also bought an A unit at NSP2 and have been there recently. I never had a problem with the finishes at NSP2 but frankly never went to the Edge because I found their floor plans not to meet my needs. I've been there recently and while the apartment was a bit dusty and in disarray, I didn't notice any corner cutting on what was originally presented. Can you be more specific? The finishes seem pretty much what they always appeared to be, but maybe I overlooked some things as I was there only briefly. I have a one month notice (not in writing, but by email) and a closing date of early November. I am on the first 6 floors.

curious buyer: At NSP2 they told me that they would not allow an inspector for the walk through. Kind of strange.

nyc2wburg- We are on the 12FL and haven't received a notice yet.
salvydicopa- Another example of NSP courtesy we didn't even see the amenities area in the building. When we asked few weeks ago if we could go back into the unit to take measurements to buy furniture we were told that that wasn't possible until the walk-through!!! But I feel that if you can look passed the amenities ( which btw I feel will be extremely nice at NSP as well) and the challenge to deal with them than you'll realize that after all the space you will spend most of your time in is your APT, and to me space is more valuable than some extra amenities, especially in NYC... but that's a personal preference.

FF2010 and Bigfatphil: I'm considering the 2 bedroom right in the H line. What was your reasoning for the A line?

What do people think of transport options as it relates to NSP? Obviously the main artery is the L-line in to Manhattan; do most people rely on this or do a lot of people drive?

When is the water taxi service expected to start and where does it take you to?

I am very surprised by the comments about customer service. We have had nothing but a positive experience with the sales office. They are responsive to calls and emails. They let us go back in the day we signed contracts to take measurements. They were prepared to let our daughter in also on a separate date by appointment; and even measured something afterwards for us. FF2010 it may be that right now they are a bit overwhelmed scheduling closing walk thrus so maybe the timing was just off. I am not sure why you were unable to see the ameneties either, they were all done for quite some time right down to water in the pool.

bigfatphil- We were there last in March and given that the APT was in a very raw state the master bath's tiles and counters and bathtub had already been installed... we noticed that compared to the model in the sales office the number of tiles on the walls had been drastically reduced and the way the marble was cut in the corners was sloppy and far from seamless ( nothing like the model), also we noticed that the thickness of the sink counter top had changed from the original one they had ( but that was then later changed in the sales office as well). We also hated the Washer and dryer... it just seemed a very cheap top load ( we want a front load) and not sure but I believe it wasn't an energy star rated... but I could be wrong on that. We took pictures that put the finishes of the tub side by side but didn't really go too far with their attorney that seemed to simply state that they would not even discuss this issue! We will see how to deal with it after our walk-through and hope that they already have fixed it or that they will be willing to address it then.
Lance 1- We preferred The A line because of it's layout, the bigger sf, it felt more open being a corner unit and had both city and Bridge views and a large living room... the H line has a nicer master bath and larger bedrooms but we rather have the space in the living room. Thought the H line is still a very nice apt, larger than most 2bd I've seen and at a very great price!
njbuyer- I am not sure why they didn't let us in... we signed our contract beginning of March! My experience is that it's never a good time for them, and we already live in the neighborhood so you would think it shouldn't be a big deal to cut out a few minutes to let us in our apt!

FF2010: How much was the premium for the A line over the H line?

Lance1- Comparing the price of the two units on the same fl after the 10% discount ( without considering closing costs) about $54 a sqft.

Antipope - The Edge salesperson said that the water taxi service is scheduled to start in 2Q11. But I didn't see any mention of it in the actual NY Water Taxi website so I guess we should take what the salespeople tell you with a grain of salt. But it is a major draw for me since I work in lower manhattan so I can suck it up and schlepp to the L until the water taxi arrives. FF2010 - as for service, I have to say that the salesperson was nice to me and my family so I had no complaints there. I guess attitudes change when they are getting closer to their sold % milestones they need to report to the bank every quarter

Lance: Ditto to FF2010's analysis of the A versus H line. We also liked the third "office" room and the larger square footage overall. Ultimately, though, the corner views was the primary reason.

bigfatphil: isn't the view going to be affected by the third tower?

Could someone please elaborate on the difference between the hvac units at the Edge and NSP2. My understanding is that the Edge is not a ptac (basically in-wall unit), so I thought it was some kind of central system but I'm not too clear on these things. [In contrast, some buildings like 70 berry, and 80 met have loud ptac units, which i'm not wild about].

For what it is worth -- I have found NSP2 to be kind of snobby, not very friendly (the woman who has been ther at least two years) , while Edge people were uniformly more friendly and professional.

Finally, I've been looking at the Edge but these comments make me nervous that there just isn't enough difference to think that the resale market will value the Edge more highly,

I found the salespeople at NSP good to deal with and quite friendly, while Edge were professional but not particularly friendly.

Does anyone have any more recently views on pricing? It seems like the standard to me is 5-6% off list price (either through covered closing costs or a mixture of this and a discount).

Lance: Yes you are correct, but I was okay with the partially obstructed view, as long as I had an eye line to midtown Manhattan and the Empire State building (which you would from the West window of the LR and unobstructed from the MBR. That's a personal choice obviously. See my post of two weeks ago for my analysis of the view before and after tower 3.

FF2010 - aren't the washer and dryer units top load? They're top of the line units.

We found the sales people at NSP extremely nice and involved. All meetings were scheduled for an hour and they took us back in a few times.

The thing that really turned us off to the Edge was the number of units/floor, the hallways seemed to go on forever. Most of the floors at NSP have fewer than a dozen units. Also, with the number of units in the main tower at the Edge, the common areas are going to get worked very quickly.

From a resale perspective, I see NSP attracting a premium purchaser. You're competing against a lot of European money in that neighborhood, and the better though out apartments, higher level of service/amenities, etc., I believe you're more likely to see people purchasing these as 2nd or 3rd homes in addition to those who choose to live here long-term.

antipodope: some water taxi links...
http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2010/08/17/williamsburgs_water_taxi_outlook_finally_less_depressing.php
Basically the pilot program is expected to start in Spring 2011, and it'll go to 34th st and wall st. Could cost around $5 per trip or $45 for a ten trips, and will not include a transfer to trains or buses. As far as price discount goes, it was basically 10% off in the summer when I negotiated. Others have mentioned that much off, however I don't know if things have changed in the past month or two.

As far as the sales teams go... I'm not making friends, I just wanted the best deal! I took a 2 hour tour of the Edge and loved it, but ultimately the easily accessible NSP floor plans online, price, and one look outside the windows had me convinced in 10 minutes. It's just a nicer approach at the Edge, they're actually selling you on the amenities and quality while NSP have the units sell themselves basically. BuyerBuyer I also considered resale value 10 years from now too.. location is the same, both have solid city views, the towers even have the same glassy look! The major differences are price, amenities, the 150+ different layouts at the edge, and the edge has a lot more balconies. I think the price spread between the two developments will be smaller as time goes on when people are not wooed by the Edge's sales team and building models with the fish tank on the bottom (pretty cool touch though!)

Finally it'll be interesting to see how much this 1BR at the Edge rents out for:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/rental/696671-condo-22-north-6th-street-williamsburg-brooklyn

re_guru- I agree with your points on resale values and what ultimately will matter in 10 yrs from now... and I am sure it won't be the basketball court!
As per NSP my comments were not only referred to the sales office but also to their lawyers and how difficult they made the process of signing the contract as well as we encountered several problems there after. In any case I hope they have resolved their communication issues and that the closing will be smoother! Anyhow, all the issues aside we are very happy with our decision to buy there and feel that their floor plans are some of the best we have seen and that it is a great value and investment.
juuceman- The W/D are top loads but we would like front loads as their are much better machines and tend to be gentler on your garments.
buyerbuyer- What I was referring to at the edge is that in the second bedroom they don't have central air but a separate big unit that takes up space in an already small room...the rest of the apt has central air. I was there only once but when I asked why they did that she said that was to give you the option of controlling the room temperature in that room separately!?!? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Anyone know the status of Bushwick Inlet Park? Not too much information out there on it, other than TransGas losing it's appeal case at the beginning of the year. The soccer field was supposed to be finished this year... It looks as if One Brooklyn Bridge Park sales really benefited from their park's opening in the summer.

http://ny.curbed.com/tags/bushwick-inlet-park
http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=&source=hp&q=bushwick+inlet+%2B2010+park+site:brownstoner.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=bushwick+inlet+%2B2010+park+site:brownstoner.com

salvy - take the J. i work in soho and can take either the J or M. i walk further than from NSP and prefer the walk to changing trains altho i haven't ever had L problems - just prefer the walk and not changing. i always get a seat and the trains come fast.

Concerning the AC, buyerbuyer is right, the Edge's unit are not ptac. And while they take up some space, they do offer the option to control the temperature in every room individually (as opposed to the system at NSP where you only have 1 thermostat for the whole apartment).

In general, I wouldn't be so much concerned about future re-sale, I'd look at units in both developments at a comparable price point and just go with whichever one I like better.

@polisson I have been in several apartment lines at 2NSP, and they all have multiple HVACs within the unit, and each HVAC has its own unique thermostatic control panel...

@ salvy - wisco's comments are misleading. north 5th & kent ave to north 7th and bedford is a good 7 min (fast-paced) - 10 min. (leisurely paced) walk. hopstop puts it at 9mins. walking to the JMZ is 20mins (see below). getting to either trains is a trek and annoying when you're in a rush. PLUS getting a seat on the train from 8am-9:45am is nearly impossible. from 9:45 the frequency of the train slows and it can be anywhere from 5-15mins between trains. squeezing into the train, sardine style, is a feat in itself. sometimes i have to wait for the next train because there's simply no space.

that being said, it's worth it for the nice apartments at northside piers if you want a better quality of life (space and amenities). but be forewarned of the reality of the commute if you work in the city, and do not believe wisco's (wishful?), inaccurate statements.

HOPSTOP RESULTS:

Route 1 (Alternate route? Try reroute | use another stop | search with other options)

DIRECTIONS TIME

9 min walk
- OR -

Start out going South East on N 5th St towards Northside Piers
Nearby Restaurants Bars & Clubs Hotels Shopping Attractions Jobs
6.7
Turn left onto Bedford Ave 1.9
Entrance near intersection of N 7th St and Bedford Ave 2.0

Route 2 (Alternate route? Try reroute | use another stop | search with other options)

DIRECTIONS TIME

20 min walk
- OR -

Start out going South East on N 5th St towards Northside Piers
Nearby Restaurants Bars & Clubs Hotels Shopping Attractions Jobs
11.7
Turn right onto Havemeyer St 0.4
Turn right onto Metropolitan Ave 0.7
Turn left onto Havemeyer St 7.7
Entrance near intersection of Broadway and Havemeyer St 2.0

Thanks NYC08. I'd tend to agree with you about the walk times. While it's pleasant enough now, 10 minutes is a long daily walk by Manhattan standards, especially in the winter!

Has anyone heard anything further on the status of the tax abatement for the 2nd building? Are thsoe of you that will be closing soon expecting to have to pay real estate taxes for now?

WilliamsburgNYC, OK, don't know what particular units you have seen, but it sounds like the best of both worlds. Usually, you would only have a single thermostat for a central AC system.

The A unit has multiple thermostats. I believe 3 if I recall correctly. They control different zones.

Thanks nyc08. 20 minute walk is not...ganna...work. On another note, does anybody here know if 2NSP is Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac approved? I heard that this can make or break whether lenders can give you a loan for new developments such as 2NSP and the Edge. Yikes, now I'm spooked! I was shooting for a loan of around 460K with high hopes of scoring a rate in the low 4%s (if not 4% outright) given my stellar credit rating and ability to put down 25%+ but a mortgage broker told me that it would be all for naught if 2NSP is not Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac approved. Does anyone have any insight on this topic?

salvy - i consider it my daily exercise and do it year round. used to brooklyn though! i walk so fast now, that at a similar or longer distance, i do it in 15 minutes. there's also the B62 bus that goes south on driggs and north on bedford. with kids, you find yourself on that do go between LIC, greenpoint, and south WB. you can take the B62 to broadway fyi. but, i do recommend the walk. i walk a lot though. good luck in any case!